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PS4 has AMD's TrueAudio DSP - Confirmed
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No! Shape is custom audio chip that MS built in-house. It has nothing to do with AMD.
Yes!
Shape seems like an extension of TrueAudio, based on 4 instead of the standard 3 DSPs, customized for their use-case (KINECT) approach.
I'm loving this! My NuForce HDP + Sennheiser HD600 are ready.
If this indeed means that you can get 3-D audio from stereo headphones in most games, then all you need for awesome, high-end audio for PS4 is a headphone DAC taking an optical audio signal and a good pair of headphones. For about $500 you can experience sound quality rivaling a $10k surround system!
If this indeed means that you can get 3-D audio from stereo headphones in most games, then all you need for awesome, high-end audio for PS4 is a headphone DAC taking an optical audio signal and a good pair of headphones. For about $500 you can experience sound quality rivaling a $10k surround system!
Travis Touchdown
Member
But what if I plug my headphones in my Mixamp pro and then on the PS4? Isn't it better this way?
Witchfinder General
punched Wheelchair Mike
Eh, that's not true at all. I have Sennheiser HD800 AND a 10K+ surround system and whilst the detail and separation through the 800 are spectacular it can't for a second reproduce the scale, impact and involvement that a full-blooded speaker set-up delivers.
Nightengale
Member
Okay, DF tweeted back to me on the TrueAudio shebang.
Seems like there's still some parts about the whole thing that needs future clarification from Sony/AMD.
Seems like there's still some parts about the whole thing that needs future clarification from Sony/AMD.
The simplest esplanation resides in SF being a launch title. If they reused the audio engine they had in place on PS3 the quickest way was moving it to CPU. That or the framework they use doesn't support TrueAudio, yet.
On top of that, how many Xbone's titles do make full use of SHAPE & Co.? Have been there deep technicals presentation about it? Forza? I wouldn't be surprised if the situation is more of less the same...
Okay, DF tweeted back to me on the TrueAudio shebang.
Seems like there's still some parts about the whole thing that needs future clarification from Sony/AMD.
Who answered from DF? Leadbetter?
Smell like this shit :
Digital Foundry: The Xbox One has dedicated audio processing hardware that is not present in PS4 or PC. How do you utilise it in Ryse?
Nightengale
Member
Dunno who replied. At least I tried.
At least we know that Killzone : Shadow Fall doesn't utilise TrueAudio. We'll see where things go from here.
At least we know that Killzone : Shadow Fall doesn't utilise TrueAudio. We'll see where things go from here.
JonathanPower
Member
Okay, DF tweeted back to me on the TrueAudio shebang.
Seems like there's still some parts about the whole thing that needs future clarification from Sony/AMD.
This does not mean that there is no TrueAudio DSP. It is normal that some audio tasks are performed on the CPU due to the lower latency.
From B3D:
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1806199&postcount=920
And some interesting info from the presentation.
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1806169&postcount=913
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1806179&postcount=915
I'm not sure what that thing does. If it's a headphone amp then it works fine. Separate headphone DACs are probably of higher quality, though.
I dare say it is true. The only thing missing is the impact because your body can't feel the bass from headphones. Scale is produced by the 3-D algorithms, and involvement should actually be enhanced, as audio can sound as if it is emanating from above you, or very close to you, for example.
I also have a 10k sound system but I really believe a pair of headphones can rival it at a fraction of the price, WITH the help of a competent 3-D audio algorithm.
Problem with surround is its placement. To get best 3D effect you need not only to have good system but also you need good room for that. BOSE has amazing autoconfig for their surround systems.
There is no such a thing with headphones since they will always deliver good sounding 3D effect
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Okay, DF tweeted back to me on the TrueAudio shebang.
Seems like there's still some parts about the whole thing that needs future clarification from Sony/AMD.
If PS4 has a Sound DSP, that does't stop anyone from producing a fully CPU driven software solution!!!
GG was one of the very first PS4 developers, perhaps the TrueAudio API/Tools weren't ready in time for the development schedule KZ: Shadow Fall was on...
KZ:SF using the CPU for sound != No custom Sound DSP on PS4
Try again DF...
Muppet of a Man
Member
ding! ding! ding! We have a winner.
Marginally customized off-the-shelf hardware everywhere this gen. They basically needed to make the sound chip a bit more powerful to handle the natural voice audio processing that comes hand-in-hand with having Kinect right out of the box.
Muppet of a Man
Member
What is it with outlets like DF and Polygon jumping to conclusions, always to the detriment of accurately representing the PS4? It is very strange.
It's a dedicated block on-chip.
the whole point of true audio / shape is to remove the audio from the cpu, allowing the cpu to do other things or more of what it's been doing and allow for better sound design in games.
Does anyone have the PDF? I want to get a closer look at the Processor on page 3 I wonder if that's the PS4 design or just something they used for the presentation?
it look a lot like this one
Edit: never mind
jeff_rigby
Banned
I'm putting this up as speculation:
The Xtensa processor in the AMD APU used as a UVD codec is a DPU not a single CPU. At design you add the Tensilica DSP blocks you want to use to the Xtensa DPU and it can perform as a audio or Video Codec as well as TrueAudio for games and more.
The custom Tensilica DSP chip in the ARM second custom chip as Southbridge will handle Audio features like MP3 and DTS audio for the blu-ray player, in fact Tensilica DSP SoCs are included in some blu-ray players. But Sony has said the DSPs in the PS4 can do 300 MP3 streams at the same time. This I believe makes the Tensilica DSP a Dataplane Processors (DPUs) which combines the strength of CPUs, DSPs, and custom logic, often with 10-to-100X the performance. DPUs can do audio and video processing, as well as gesture and audio recognition.
If the PS4 is to support being a media hub and DLNA CVP2 STB it needs a low power "Apple TV" like SoC...the combination of the ARM second custom chip as Southbridge and a DPU both with access to 256 megs of DDR3 memory makes sense.
As a 4K blu-ray player which have voluntary power limits in the 21 watt range it works, as a VidiPath (DLNA CVP2) STB it should use slightly less power and again since coming blu-ray players will be VidiPath STBs this again works. As a media hub that transcodes from h.265 to h.264 to support other DLNA STBs in the home...it works.
Xtensa Customizable Processors. Sony has been using a Xtensa LX 2 since 2007 in their CE products.
Video describing Xtensa
Xtensa LX overview
The Xtensa processor in the AMD APU used as a UVD codec is a DPU not a single CPU. At design you add the Tensilica DSP blocks you want to use to the Xtensa DPU and it can perform as a audio or Video Codec as well as TrueAudio for games and more.
The custom Tensilica DSP chip in the ARM second custom chip as Southbridge will handle Audio features like MP3 and DTS audio for the blu-ray player, in fact Tensilica DSP SoCs are included in some blu-ray players. But Sony has said the DSPs in the PS4 can do 300 MP3 streams at the same time. This I believe makes the Tensilica DSP a Dataplane Processors (DPUs) which combines the strength of CPUs, DSPs, and custom logic, often with 10-to-100X the performance. DPUs can do audio and video processing, as well as gesture and audio recognition.
If the PS4 is to support being a media hub and DLNA CVP2 STB it needs a low power "Apple TV" like SoC...the combination of the ARM second custom chip as Southbridge and a DPU both with access to 256 megs of DDR3 memory makes sense.
As a 4K blu-ray player which have voluntary power limits in the 21 watt range it works, as a VidiPath (DLNA CVP2) STB it should use slightly less power and again since coming blu-ray players will be VidiPath STBs this again works. As a media hub that transcodes from h.265 to h.264 to support other DLNA STBs in the home...it works.
Xtensa Customizable Processors. Sony has been using a Xtensa LX 2 since 2007 in their CE products.
Video describing Xtensa
Xtensa LX overview
It means the ps4 has specialised hardware to offload audio processing to, saving computational power for other tasks.
This was to be expected with the GPU of the PS4 basically being the same as a modern AMD videocard which also have this feature, but good to hear it being confirmed. For people who don't understand what it does: It's basically a modern take on EAX/DirectSound3D that was available for PC's with a dedicated soundcard back in the day. So you'll get better 3D audio positioning and it allows for more complex sound design with more soundeffects playing at the same time.
It also means a little bit less pressure on the CPU, but I wouldn't expect any significant performance improvements from that so don't get your hopes up.
The only game utilizing the technology on PC is Thief though I think? It's a bit disappointing so far (it doesn't automatically enhance every game sadly, it isn't magic), but maybe some PS4 exclusives will use it (or are already secretly using it).
This is good news for Project Morpheus too, especially with Oculus focusing on 3D positional audio in their newest public prototype. The PS4 should be able to achieve the same effect with TrueAudio and a good pair of headphones.
It also means a little bit less pressure on the CPU, but I wouldn't expect any significant performance improvements from that so don't get your hopes up.
The only game utilizing the technology on PC is Thief though I think? It's a bit disappointing so far (it doesn't automatically enhance every game sadly, it isn't magic), but maybe some PS4 exclusives will use it (or are already secretly using it).
This is good news for Project Morpheus too, especially with Oculus focusing on 3D positional audio in their newest public prototype. The PS4 should be able to achieve the same effect with TrueAudio and a good pair of headphones.
It kinds of makes you wonder if they also had this in mind when deciding on this specific part of the hardware.
It's interesting how many things are tied together so well. Not all of them may be exploited now or even soon, but at least it seems they had a vision and a goal, and someone in the room at all the decisions who actually understood that goal and made sure it was maintained throughout the process.
It really wouldn't surprise me. I think a lot of the PS4 hardware points to it. I've always wondered if some future thought of theirs is why they have the PS4 camera use a different connector rather than a regular USB one.....
jeff_rigby
Banned
It appears that Kaveri can support h.265 and it's UVD is also using a Xtensa DPU.
So in AMD APUs the decoder is a software programmable Xtensa DPU with software configurable microcode that can support multiple A & V codecs and likely any near future codecs but the encoder is fixed hardware encoding which supports fewer options but that clearly works and is what is necessary (less latency) for DLNA and HTML5 <video> (h.264) to stream to other platforms (Skype, game streaming, support for DLNA transcoding).
Kaveri's GPU with 12 CUs has too much leakage current to use the GPU shaders for UVD post processing so Kavari's UVD 4.0 doesn't use the GPGPU, it must have a more powerful Xtensa DPU that supports h.265.
Logically, Microsoft and Sony to support multiple Codecs and near future codecs must do as AMD did and use a Software codec. Sony is supporting AMD's True Audio APIs with the same Tensilica DSPs so Sony is likely using the same Xtensia DPU family (highly customize-able but likely Xtensia LX 4? 4 CPUs in papers needed for efficient real time h.265 decoding and LX 4 has 4 Xtensa CPUs) that Kavari is using.
AMD APUs also have eyesight gesture recognition code (and now facial recognition) in a ROM that uses the "Parellel computing" in the AMD APUs. Considering that Xtensia DPUs are touted as supporting gesture recognition it's likely running on the DPU. Sony will likely do the same for gesture and face recognition as well as AR.
I'm sure the above is already common knowledge to professionals in the industry but I'm just catching on. The use cases and EU and Energy star concerns dictate the use of ARM and handheld technologies which Tensilica DPUs are designed to support. Larger GPUs have too much leakage and can't be used for Software codecs and if gesture and voice recognition is to be supported by IPTV APPS not games then likely the GPU will be off.
Logically, Microsoft and Sony to support multiple Codecs and near future codecs must do as AMD did and use a Software codec.
List of supported XB1 DLNA and likely HTML5 file types and Codecs. This is a big differentiator for a game console as a Media Hub. MOV is an Apple video format so XB1 can support MOV and play or transcode to h.264. To support all these formats requires a software codec engine right?
So in AMD APUs the decoder is a software programmable Xtensa DPU with software configurable microcode that can support multiple A & V codecs and likely any near future codecs but the encoder is fixed hardware encoding which supports fewer options but that clearly works and is what is necessary (less latency) for DLNA and HTML5 <video> (h.264) to stream to other platforms (Skype, game streaming, support for DLNA transcoding).
Kaveri's GPU with 12 CUs has too much leakage current to use the GPU shaders for UVD post processing so Kavari's UVD 4.0 doesn't use the GPGPU, it must have a more powerful Xtensa DPU that supports h.265.
Logically, Microsoft and Sony to support multiple Codecs and near future codecs must do as AMD did and use a Software codec. Sony is supporting AMD's True Audio APIs with the same Tensilica DSPs so Sony is likely using the same Xtensia DPU family (highly customize-able but likely Xtensia LX 4? 4 CPUs in papers needed for efficient real time h.265 decoding and LX 4 has 4 Xtensa CPUs) that Kavari is using.
AMD APUs also have eyesight gesture recognition code (and now facial recognition) in a ROM that uses the "Parellel computing" in the AMD APUs. Considering that Xtensia DPUs are touted as supporting gesture recognition it's likely running on the DPU. Sony will likely do the same for gesture and face recognition as well as AR.
I'm sure the above is already common knowledge to professionals in the industry but I'm just catching on. The use cases and EU and Energy star concerns dictate the use of ARM and handheld technologies which Tensilica DPUs are designed to support. Larger GPUs have too much leakage and can't be used for Software codecs and if gesture and voice recognition is to be supported by IPTV APPS not games then likely the GPU will be off.
Logically, Microsoft and Sony to support multiple Codecs and near future codecs must do as AMD did and use a Software codec.
List of supported XB1 DLNA and likely HTML5 file types and Codecs. This is a big differentiator for a game console as a Media Hub. MOV is an Apple video format so XB1 can support MOV and play or transcode to h.264. To support all these formats requires a software codec engine right?
HEVC or h.265 is not now a DLNA required codec nor is it a HTML5 codec but for Sony to support a streaming IPTV service or 4K Blu-ray it's required.www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=872846 said:
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