The PS3 has been using PCM uncompressed audio this entire generation...
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PS4 has AMD's TrueAudio DSP - Confirmed
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The PS3 has been using PCM uncompressed audio this entire generation...
Chobel
Member
Seriously, we're in page 4 and no one called out Richard Leadbetter for this:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-crytek-the-next-generation
And this
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-cpu-speed-increased-in-production-hardware
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-crytek-the-next-generation
And this
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-cpu-speed-increased-in-production-hardware
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Why didn't they speak up about this earlier? Talk about dropping the ball.
Why should anybody call him out? TrueAudio might not be the same as whatever Microsoft is using, and neither system goes as far as what Nintendo uses. There are many different DSPs and implementations.
So, XO is beaten on audio field. I think MisterXMedia will hang.
But the problem is that XO's SHAPE can't produce audio like example from GenAudio.
"Gaming journalists" so sad.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
WOW
Chobel
Member
I don't care about the implementation, read the quote "The Xbox One has dedicated audio processing hardware that is not present in PS4 or PC". He's saying that PS4 doesn't have dedicated audio processing hardware.
Can TrueAudio? I mean: 100% on the DSP, no CPU intervention? And does it actually matter?
Actually that can still be correct. As in it has a different hardware chip that is indeed not resent elsewhere.
But
is not in the same boat.
It's vague. You can also read it as "Xbone has dedicated audio processing [capabilities] the PS4 doesn't have". And that's it. That doesn't necessarily mean PS4 has no audio DSP.
Well, I gave up calling out leadbetters bullshit after the balance talk, everyone should just know there are inaccuracies and (perhaps unintentional) biases in all of his comparison articles since the reveals.
According to anadtech article ( and the youtube video ), YES! Or did you watch AMD conference when GenAudio show up on the stage. It's matter. You don't need a 7.1 or 5.1 home theater for awesome sound. Just a cheap headset.
Unlikely, the diagrams show it to be set up like a very ordinary sound chip. It might be a very good one but it's not leveraging some of the APU features AMD is pushing.
The hUMA and sound capabilities on the GPU means it can theoretically leverage data in memory to do neat things with sound for essentially free. The XB1 would have to use the CPU to package a digest of that data and send it to the sound processor and control the output. So the silly notion that the XB1 SHAPE chip would unload work from the CPU actually applies to the PS4 and the GPGPU they've been pushing.
The question if anyone will notice is a open one. Good enough sound has been good enough. Great sound may be hard to notice unless they make it a gameplay feature. Like an action scene where you use sound to target things in the dark.
PS. TLOU2, shoot clickers in the dark. Sounds plausible.
Angelus Errare
Banned
In what way? GG used SPEs for wavetracing, occlusion and material filters in Killzone for instance. The most mentioned advantage of the PS3 is sending game audio unaltered to your receiver if you select PCM compared to Xbox 360 doing multichannel audio over Dolby Digital only which leads to compression of already mediocre sound samples. Sometimes PS3 versions of multiplats had less compressed audio by default like BLUR for instance.
In any non-specialized case audio could eat up a lot of CPU power. There are a few notable quotes by X360 devs about a few games eating up to a SINGLE cpu core. With these specialized DSPs this will be a thing of the past fortunately but not only in terms of freeing the CPU but also in additional complex rendering methos/algorithms on top that used to be a thing many years ago and led to much better immersion compared to what we mostly got in the last 6-7 years. Such a shame, but well, looks like this will have an end soon.
It's the most welcome potential to me.
The context of the idea was that it could offload work from the CPU so the CPU could help out the under powered GPU. It's silly because it's probably not going to make much of a difference. Even if you dedicate the entire floating point number crunching power of the CPU to GPU tasks you're still going to come up short.
It'd be interesting to see a post mortem from a multi-platform dev and see what the real difference is. The NDA's will probably prevent that for a while.
dragonelite
Member
Those articles are from before this information got out.
Edit:
Do we even have an list of in silicon implemented algorithms for both audio processors?
Binaural audio can be eperienced very easily with cheap headsets, that is for sure. The effect is quite noticable compared to a "normal" stereo recording with room information.
It doesn't mean though that this is all you need and there's no scalability. Better headphones will lead to better immersion. Deeper extension in the bass department with better control will lead to better experience of subbass atmosphere, explosions etc. You can go on and on with better treble detail/extension, less resonance in the housing, especially better imaging/soundstage etc.....
In any case, precise binaural audio or a real 3D soundfield will make gaming audio much more immersive and accessable. A well-treated room with good speakers is not what the majority has. Most people play with plastic screaming boxes and place them very weirdly. Headphones ignore the room and make immersion easier but the sacrifice is physical impact of the sound, especially with bass. Soundstage is debatable. Any good headphone with a cohesive soundstage + binaural audio will deliver heaps of immersion.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is GODLY! We need the PS4 to get updated to allow headphones soon!!!!
opticalmace
Member
Jesus christ this blew my mind. Especially the newspaper bit, I kept looking over my damn shoulder lol.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Is that demo specifically using TrueAudio? Is this DSP providing binaural audio through the controller?
I'm absolutely in the dark here as far as audio engineering goes lol, it's all scribbles to me. Someone give me the cliff notes. I understand that it's offloading resources and what-not, but what does all of this mean for the quality of audio?
I'm absolutely in the dark here as far as audio engineering goes lol, it's all scribbles to me. Someone give me the cliff notes. I understand that it's offloading resources and what-not, but what does all of this mean for the quality of audio?
So he assumed based on incomplete details but spoke with the authority of someone who was had the full details in front of him.
Amateur.
Nightengale
Member
"Sony...Sony,too!"
Despite having what is clearly the superior hardware, Sony had actually not talked up much about their hardware at all. A lot of it is paraphrased and quoted from generic interviews, but no real deep-dive from Sony themselves.
Compared to MS who continue to talk the specs sheet where it matters to them.
Honestly, this is where I find things refreshing. Different companies do things differently. There's no need nor reason for MS to react to every damn thing MS does, or vice-versa, at least in terms of the way they're talking about their product.
It's annoying to see stuff like:
- MS demos UI
- Now SONY MUST DO IT TOO.
- Sony doesn't do anything. ( until today )
- SONY MUST BE HIDING SOMETHING.
Turns out they have not hidden anything, they simply chose not to reveal it earlier.
Ummm:
You can now watch the SCEA presentation "Designing a game audio engine for HSA" on demand on the APU13 conference website. They talk about the ACP...it's an hour long.
A quick, free registration is required at: https://vts.inxpo.com/scripts/Server.nxp?LASCmd=AI:4;F:QS!10100&ShowKey=16356&Referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fvts.inxpo.com%2Fscripts%2FServer.nxp%3FLASCmd%3DL%3A0%26AI%3D1%26InitialDisplay%3D1%26ClientBrowser%3D0%26ShowKey%3D16356
After you login, just do a search for: "Audio Engine for HSA". It should be labeled as "BREAKOUT: MM-4085 Designing a game audio engine for HSA"
You can now watch the SCEA presentation "Designing a game audio engine for HSA" on demand on the APU13 conference website. They talk about the ACP...it's an hour long.
A quick, free registration is required at: https://vts.inxpo.com/scripts/Server.nxp?LASCmd=AI:4;F:QS!10100&ShowKey=16356&Referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fvts.inxpo.com%2Fscripts%2FServer.nxp%3FLASCmd%3DL%3A0%26AI%3D1%26InitialDisplay%3D1%26ClientBrowser%3D0%26ShowKey%3D16356
After you login, just do a search for: "Audio Engine for HSA". It should be labeled as "BREAKOUT: MM-4085 Designing a game audio engine for HSA"
boredandlazy
Member
That is amazing.
qa_engineer
Member
What this means is that CPU resources can be devoted to other tasks and not wasted processing audio. Right?
Came here to write this. What a biased hack.
Nightengale
Member
Just tweet at DF if it bothers you that they're not highlighting this new revelation. It's only happened yesterday, give Leadbetter time to recover from his shock that PS4 had another tech megaton.
I already did it, asking if DF is going to clarify more details on the PS4 tech in light of the new revelation.
I already did it, asking if DF is going to clarify more details on the PS4 tech in light of the new revelation.
Uh. if I'm right, you can hook up your regular headphone to DS4.
I Stalk Alone
Member
I will give you a dollar if you can tell which one is the original and which one is compressed audio (192kbps).
My bet is out of 100 trys, you will get 50 right, 50 wrong. In other word, you can't.
But that doesn't mean you can't pursue your passion for sound quality perfection, of course.
LukasTaves
Member
Isn't this claim technically correct, since True Audio appears to be gpgpu (hsa'd to work with the cpu) accelerated, and not a dedicated audio chip?
Edit: I'm wrong (and dumb), True Audio does have some DSPs chips XD
dynamitejim
Member
Ummm:
You can now watch the SCEA presentation "Designing a game audio engine for HSA" on demand on the APU13 conference website. They talk about the ACP...it's an hour long.
A quick, free registration is required at: https://vts.inxpo.com/scripts/Server.nxp?LASCmd=AI:4;F:QS!10100&ShowKey=16356&Referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fvts.inxpo.com%2Fscripts%2FServer.nxp%3FLASCmd%3DL%3A0%26AI%3D1%26InitialDisplay%3D1%26ClientBrowser%3D0%26ShowKey%3D16356
After you login, just do a search for: "Audio Engine for HSA". It should be labeled as "BREAKOUT: MM-4085 Designing a game audio engine for HSA"
There's no mention of anything True Audio related. In fact he says all (?) the audio for KZSF runs on 50% of 1 CPU core. Also claims Jaguar is only 10% slower than an i7 at the same clock speed. It's basically a discussion of the pros and cons of doing audio on the CPU vs GPU vs DSP. The PS4 may have some True Audio tech, but I get the feeling it may not be as fully featured as AMD's RX cards. That, or the ACP is completely separate from the True Audio stuff and the True Audio hasn't been exposed to developers yet.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Cool, now let us play MP3s on it and enjoy said audio processing.
Robobandit
Member
in that youtube demo, that guy tearing the paper next to my ear was unnerving..
it sounded like there was really someone to my left and right tearing a piece of paper.
it sounded like there was really someone to my left and right tearing a piece of paper.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
http://audioengineusa.com/Store/D1-24-Bit-DAC
Something like this is ideal. There are cheaper ones, though.
That Is what I'm thinking as well.
I just listened to the first few seconds of that and had to turn it off. It's 5am and I'm alone in a open public study area of my uni, it felt too real and freaked me out!
The CPU is 1.6GHz I seen/heard the guy in the HSA Audio presentation say it.
I'll take that bet, let me load up my trusty Spectrum Analyzer....
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
I am ready for next gen 
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
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