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[Clear]

I believe you can make that case with TLOU, but Deus Ex dipping into 20s should be very noticeable to everyone.

Noticeable, sure, but sufficiently bad to warrant reducing resolution across the board in order to fix? That's debatable.

To expect the games to have the same performance as on the base PS4 doesn't seem that outlandish to me. Especially when I'm playing on a 1080p tv

But they aren't the same, that the frame-rate differs is testament the fact that the faster gpu is putting in more work. So once again we are back to a subjective determination as to whether the improved image quality justifies rare isolated instances of frame-drops.

There is no absolute right or wrong answer; what you may find unsatisfactory may be entirely acceptable to, or simply go unnoticed by other people.

And in any case the bottom line is its a rare (and likely soon to be unemployed) producer that will hold up a build from hitting its delivery date by not KS'ing minor bugs like instances of frame-rate drops.

 

[Fafalada]

Noticeable, sure, but sufficiently bad to warrant reducing resolution across the board in order to fix? That's debatable.

Many/most VR games had to make choices like that at some point or another.

But ultimately it's an argument for embracing dynamic load balancing solutions (resolution and so forth), especially in lieu of multiple hw configurations.

 

[CrispyBoar]

Reading some of these posts, it's no wonder Trump is going to be president.

For pete's sake, stop talking about Trump on Gaming Discussion. We don't care about him or politics on here.

There's plenty of threads about him on Off-Topic Discussion already. Sheesh.

 

[Ushay]

Can you show me where I mentioned the word "framerate" in my post?

I'm asking a question, not quoting you lol. Its already been answered anyhow. The Pro is effectively rendering at higher resolution and then outputting at 1080p.

The OT (title) is indeed misleading.

 

[Dante83]

This is a concern and a worrying trend where developers prioritize visuals over frame rates. 1080p should be native 1080p, and not down sample from higher res, and I noticed that the differences in graphics is not very noticeable...A higher frame rate to me will be immediately felt and noticeable, especially if the base ps4 game is not up to snuff. Instead, I see the ps4 pro having the same frame drops, maybe worse(!) in the exact places where the base ps4 failed...

 

[Barakas]

Downloading this now on my pro, are the patches included in the download or will it download the patch once the game has finished the 40gb ?

 

[hesido]

Why set your goals so low? forget that they should have a firmware update that will let you set the PS4 Pro to boost mode for people who don't mind the fan noise.

If I've got a pro and if the game performs better on original PS4 version, the user may be given a choice to launch a game in base PS4 mode, that or complete PC like graphical settings. Currently the devs may shoot for too high (e.g. native 4K) that may put the performance level lower than the original PS4.

So yes, either a fully fledged graphical settings options for PS4 Pro user (all the way down to PS4 original levels on different settings) or a choice to use PS4 Pro as PS4 could be good for the power user.

The former is better in utilizing the PS4pro actually because it wouldn't be downclocking but it's "complicated" for the console users.

 

[thelastword]

This is a concern and a worrying trend where developers prioritize visuals over frame rates. 1080p should be native 1080p, and not down sample from higher res, and I noticed that the differences in graphics is not very noticeable...A higher frame rate to me will be immediately felt and noticeable, especially if the base ps4 game is not up to snuff. Instead, I see the ps4 pro having the same frame drops, maybe worse(!) in the exact places where the base ps4 failed...

I hope you realize that games are not rendering at higher resolutions because they simply want to give you downsampled IQ at 1080p......There are 4k users that the Pro targets too, so when people say, just do a 1080p mode at 60fps, it's selfish to say that because the 4k user gets no benefits there....

Ideally for a 4.2TF console, sony has worked out checkerboarding as an effective compromise, some devs have not really used it and opted to use a higher resolution instead. As to what's most effective yet, we're still evaluating.....


Lets be honest here, if the Pro only did TLOUR at 1080p 60fps, that would be a lot of resources wasted because clearly it can run at a much higher resolution. Had we not seen this game running at 1800p at 50-60fps, we would have never known it could run so high without checkerboarding....

 

[leng jai]

I really hope they patch it to 60 or introduce another mode where it's locked. Not playing through it again if it's dropping to 50-55 fps half the time.

 

[Always-honest]

It's never been about difficulty; it's always been about time. Developers lack time though unless you think they like crunching for months for fun.

I literally say it takes time in my post...

 

[dark10x]

I can understand some additional slowdown when rendering at a much higher resolution.

The big issue for me is when additional problems are added into the mix. Frame pacing issues in Rise of the Tomb Raider only on the Pro are disappointing and does prevent it from feeling as smooth as it does on a base PS4.

However, I'm also positive it would be fairly simple to fix and Nixxes has already shown willingness to correct such things. It launched with the input latency issue and, within a week, they fixed it! So hopefully this can be corrected as well.

That said, aside from that issue, I like the approach they took in offering users the choice between three different modes.

I wouldn't read too deeply into these early releases, though, since I'm sure most of these patches were made with limited man power and time.

...and some games are just flat out way better on the Pro, which is what you'd want. Call of Duty IW is amazing on PS4 Pro, Titanfall 2 looks much better and runs like a dream, Ratchet and Clank is hugely improved and Infamous First Light (haven't tried SS) can now basically run at 60fps.

So situations like Deus Ex, which runs a lot worse on the Pro, should hopefully not be the norm!

 

[leng jai]

I can understand some additional slowdown when rendering at a much higher resolution.

The big issue for me is when additional problems are added into the mix. Frame pacing issues in Rise of the Tomb Raider only on the Pro are disappointing and does prevent it from feeling as smooth as it does on a base PS4.

However, I'm also positive it would be fairly simple to fix and Nixxes has already shown willingness to correct such things. It launched with the input latency issue and, within a week, they fixed it! So hopefully this can be corrected as well.

That said, aside from that issue, I like the approach they took in offering users the choice between three different modes.

I wouldn't read too deeply into these early releases, though, since I'm sure most of these patches were made with limited man power and time.

...and some games are just flat out way better on the Pro, which is what you'd want. Call of Duty IW is amazing on PS4 Pro, Titanfall 2 looks much better and runs like a dream, Ratchet and Clank is hugely improved and Infamous First Light (haven't tried SS) can now basically run at 60fps.

So situations like Deus Ex, which runs a lot worse on the Pro, should hopefully not be the norm!

Is First Light locked 60? It doesn't feel like it to me and I get insane black crush in that game on both RGB full or limited.

 

[Nachtfalke]

Is First Light locked 60? It doesn't feel like it to me and I get insane black crush in that game on both RGB full or limited.

Can we expect some Infamous coverage aswell? Just checked Second Son on the Pro, which runs slightly worse on standard PS4 in comparison to First Light and it's not a locked 60fps there.

 

[Negotiator]

Infamous has a 60fps target on Pro (57-58 fps max).

 

[holygeesus]

Out of interest, have there been any comparisons between the base version with HDR and the Pro version at 4K?

 

[Yopis]

I can understand some additional slowdown when rendering at a much higher resolution.

The big issue for me is when additional problems are added into the mix. Frame pacing issues in Rise of the Tomb Raider only on the Pro are disappointing and does prevent it from feeling as smooth as it does on a base PS4.

However, I'm also positive it would be fairly simple to fix and Nixxes has already shown willingness to correct such things. It launched with the input latency issue and, within a week, they fixed it! So hopefully this can be corrected as well.

That said, aside from that issue, I like the approach they took in offering users the choice between three different modes.

I wouldn't read too deeply into these early releases, though, since I'm sure most of these patches were made with limited man power and time.

...and some games are just flat out way better on the Pro, which is what you'd want. Call of Duty IW is amazing on PS4 Pro, Titanfall 2 looks much better and runs like a dream, Ratchet and Clank is hugely improved and Infamous First Light (haven't tried SS) can now basically run at 60fps.

So situations like Deus Ex, which runs a lot worse on the Pro, should hopefully not be the norm!

Tomb Raider has issues in all modes? Just curious as this was the first I have heard of the problem.

 

[jnWake]

Even if it's a tiny drop it makes no sense that games can be worse in the Pro. At the very least they should offer a "exactly as normal PS4" option so that players can choose.

 

[Negotiator]

Even if it's a tiny drop it makes no sense that games can be worse in the Pro. At the very least they should offer a "exactly as normal PS4" option so that players can choose.

I agree that a "base mode" toggle should be offered as a last resort solution, but this negates the purpose of the PS4 Pro. You could have bought a PS4 Slim instead (less heat/noise for base mode).

"Lazy devs" may tell you to enable base mode instead of releasing a new patch (patches cost money IIRC)... I hope I'm wrong, but the direction the industry is heading is worrying.

 

[jnWake]

I agree that a "base mode" toggle should be offered as a last resort solution, but this negates the purpose of the PS4 Pro. You could have bought a PS4 Slim instead (less heat/noise for base mode).

"Lazy devs" may tell you to enable base mode instead of releasing a new patch (patches cost money IIRC)... I hope I'm wrong, but the direction the industry is heading is worrying.

Yeah, it should be last resort option but it should be there for people that want to play a version with consistent FPS regardless of super pretty effects or downsampling.

 

[Jacob4815]

Patch 1.08

In an update to The Last of Us Remastered today, we introduced bug fixes and optimizations that will ensure a consistent and high level of performance on the PS4 Pro. Now, when running The Last of Us Remastered on the PS4 Pro on a standard high-definition display, the game will run natively at 1080p and offer high-quality shadows when running at its high-framerate mode.

1080p users (and only them) are now forced to 1080p native with high-quality shadows. Framerate should be locked 60fps.
But they removed supersampling from 1800p, so now it looks like image quality is worse and very jaggied.

My question:
Have they removed supersampling from the 30 fps mode too? I hope not. Could anyone try the 30 fps mode?

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Patch 1.08



1080p users (and only them) are now forced to 1080p native with high-quality shadows. Framerate should be locked 60fps.
But they removed supersampling from 1800p, so now it looks like image quality is worse and very jaggied.

My question:
Have they removed supersampling from the 30 fps mode too? I hope not. Could anyone try the 30 fps mode?

Crap

 

[theRizzle]

That is pretty terrible. There was no middle ground there? 1440p? This is literally the least they could have done as an improvement.

 

[gdt]

Does a 4K user still get the 4K benefits even with the frame drops?

 

[onQ123]

If I've got a pro and if the game performs better on original PS4 version, the user may be given a choice to launch a game in base PS4 mode, that or complete PC like graphical settings. Currently the devs may shoot for too high (e.g. native 4K) that may put the performance level lower than the original PS4.

So yes, either a fully fledged graphical settings options for PS4 Pro user (all the way down to PS4 original levels on different settings) or a choice to use PS4 Pro as PS4 could be good for the power user.

The former is better in utilizing the PS4pro actually because it wouldn't be downclocking but it's "complicated" for the console users.

devs should not have a pass to leave their game messed up because if a game is running better on PS4 than it is on PS4 Pro it's something that the devs did & they need to address it.

 

[Jacob4815]

That is pretty terrible. There was no middle ground there? 1440p? This is literally the least they could have done as an improvement.

I agree. With the new patch they restricted the experience to 1080p users for a sort of "parity" with the standard PS4 (now they both run at 60 fps without frame pacing).
But I read that IQ is now terrible.

Not happy with this. I wanted to play the game in a supersampled mode.. so I'll wait for a confirmation on the supersampled mode working at least in the 30 fps mode... or I will not buy the game anymore.

 

[thebigmachine]

As long as it doesn't perform worse then the standard ps4 then that's all that matters to some people.

Not me though, if it's sub 60 then I would have rather have it look better in return.

 

[adamsapple]

That's a bit of a cop out.

At least the 4K mode is still there.

 

[Jacob4815]

I'm going to open a new thread.

 

[bryanee]

Can I just stop the update and keep using the super sampled mode?

 

[RyudBoy]

lol so basically they had to downgrade? pro continues to disappoint

 

[Jacob4815]

'

 

[Natels]

I just tested on a 1080p monitor.

I'm pretty sure it is 1080p on both 60 and 30fps. Jaggies are present.

 

[TrojanAg]

My guess is 30fps is still supersampled since that didnt have FPS dips on Pro, only the 60 FPS mode

 

[Omnistalgic]

This is a thread about a game dropping 6 fps in comparison to the old version?

Wow...

I just don't understand what the hell these discussions amount to at all. I don't dare imagine the day I'm this concerned and agitated by frame drops and resolutions. Sheesh...

 

[Jacob4815]

New thread
neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=225880501

 

[TheGreyHulk]

but can I still play the 1800p mode with unlocked frame rate?

I have a 1080p set and was fine with the performance and getting super sampling...

Now I get 60 FPS and no super sampling. I loved the no jaggies look of 1800p

Give us options please.

1080p output: 60 FPS mode, 1080p res + extra image quality things (shadows, etc)

1080p output: 1800p supersampling, unlocked frame rate

 

[mrlion]

haha what happened to the "oh we don't care about framerate as long as we play on badass graphix!!" now suddenly it became a problem...

 

[Ricky_R]

Great. Now I can't replay the game with supersampled image?

 

[FlyinJ]

'

So wait-

With this new patch, does it basically make running the game on a pro in 1080p the exact same as running it on a regular ps4?

There are no enhancements?

 

[rec0ded1]

Wtf removed supersampling? Fuck that I'm not patching.

 

[thebigmachine]

So wait-

With this new patch, does it basically make running the game on a pro in 1080p the exact same as running it on a regular ps4?

There are no enhancements?

It's got better shadows.

 

[Rellik]

This is a thread about a game dropping 6 fps in comparison to the old version?

Wow...

I just don't understand what the hell these discussions amount to at all. I don't dare imagine the day I'm this concerned and agitated by frame drops and resolutions. Sheesh...

Then don't come in here if it doesn't bother you. It does bother many people and there is a lot to discuss.

 

[VanCityGamer]

So I have this thread to blame for fucking up the opportunity to play my favorite game of all time with super high image quality.

 

[Liabe Brave]

It's got better shadows.

Also it runs better. The Pro high-framerate mode is now a higher framerate than standard PS4.