Support NeoGAF

[Marty-McFly]

I don't think Demon Souls did too hot. Sony Japan Studios closed not long after.

I was looking at Souls sales numbers the other day and was pretty surprised that Bloodborne only did 2 million lifetime? That's the best Souls game right there it deserves more. So, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a pretty low number, it will probably get better as the console matures though.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I guess Sony doesn’t see demons souls as a mega hit….

I wonder if there attach will increase drastically this a Gen. Ratchet seems to be at 10 percent of console sales which is impressive. niche Man is selling very well but that’s on PS4 too right, do we have a ps5 split?

this thing is gonna be at 16 million maybe more by Xmas isn’t it?

 

[Hobbygaming]

I don't think Demon Souls did too hot. Sony Japan Studios closed not long after.

I was looking at Souls sales numbers the other day and was pretty surprised that Bloodborne only did 2 million lifetime? That's the best Souls game right there it deserves more. So, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a pretty low number, it will probably get better as the console matures though.

Bluepoint did most of the heavy lifting for the Demon Souls remake

 

[Dr Bass]

Lmao we aren’t even a year in and you think this worries MS??

I don't think MS is worried. The company makes a crap ton of money and their revenue for the Xbox division looks solid (though who knows if they are even making a profit, they refuse to say).

But you know.. generations are only like 5-7 years. Another 1-2 years and we are halfway done and will be hearing rumblings about the next, next-gen, if not "pro" consoles. Don't ignore how quickly time passes. Momentum and launch periods absolutely matter.

I think being this badly beaten 20% of the way through the generation with no real recourse or view at actually turning things around, while the two main industry competitors are absolutely crushing it, isn't exactly a reason to celebrate.

But hey, they are beating Amazon and Google.

 

[MaxwellParrish]

I don't think Demon Souls did too hot. Sony Japan Studios closed not long after.

I was looking at Souls sales numbers the other day and was pretty surprised that Bloodborne only did 2 million lifetime? That's the best Souls game right there it deserves more. So, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a pretty low number, it will probably get better as the console matures though.

it sold over 2 millions copies in six months, we don't nave lifetime Sales. For comparison, DS3 between all platform shipped 3 millions in 3 months and has now sold over 10 millions copies

 

[DenchDeckard]

I don't think MS is worried. The company makes a crap ton of money and their revenue for the Xbox division looks solid (though who knows if they are even making a profit, they refuse to say).

But you know.. generations are only like 5-7 years. Another 1-2 years and we are halfway done and will be hearing rumblings about the next, next-gen, if not "pro" consoles. Don't ignore how quickly time passes. Momentum and launch periods absolutely matter.

I think being this badly beaten 20% of the way through the generation with no real recourse or view at actually turning things around, while the two main industry competitors are absolutely crushing it, isn't exactly a reason to celebrate.

But hey, they are beating Amazon and Google.

this badly beaten? They are more or less at 66% sales of the ps5 after having to complete a full roll out of silicone for their cloud infrastructure.

a company cares about growth, MS is doing nothing but win in their eyes. Would they want more? Of course they will. Every business does, but selling nearly a million more consoles than the Xbox one in the same time frame while supporting roll out of their cloud structure is great for them.

the timing of Sony announcing hitting 10 million is obviously due to Microsoft’s success. Sony are putting the pressure and saying EARLY we are still the king around here keep the pressure on their necks…..don’t let this positive Microsoft news gain any more traction than it needs to. It’s pretty simple business.

MS are having the most positive week of their launch, stock is becoming more available, flight sim has launched to positive buzz, ascent could be getting positive buzz today and the halo weekender is coming.

Sony are absolutely killing it, but to make statements like “being this badly beaten“ needs some perspective. Especially when you are saying turn things around. They’ve already turned it around, did you see their numbers?

Microsoft will never outsell Sony worldwide. It would be one of the most incredible moves of power the industry would have ever seen. I just don’t think it’s possible. But to be where they are after the xbox one debacle is great work.

Sony would need to royally fuck up to lose a worldwide advantage.

 

[DarkMage619]

I don't think MS is worried. The company makes a crap ton of money and their revenue for the Xbox division looks solid (though who knows if they are even making a profit, they refuse to say).

But you know.. generations are only like 5-7 years. Another 1-2 years and we are halfway done and will be hearing rumblings about the next, next-gen, if not "pro" consoles. Don't ignore how quickly time passes. Momentum and launch periods absolutely matter.

I think being this badly beaten 20% of the way through the generation with no real recourse or view at actually turning things around, while the two main industry competitors are absolutely crushing it, isn't exactly a reason to celebrate.

But hey, they are beating Amazon and Google.

This will always be an interesting dynamic. Sony and Nintendo only care about hardware sales. MS cares more about services and subscriptions. MS is doing better in the service and subscription vein and Nintendo and Sony are doing better in hardware sales.

Making fun of MS for not selling as much hardware makes as much sense as making fun of Sony and Nintendo for not matching Game pass subs. Phil Spencer straight up came out and said you don't have to buy an Xbox right away. In fact you don't have to buy an Xbox at all. Sony and Nintendo would never say that.

All systems have their pros and cons and I'm glad every platform has been successful. Good job on Sony selling 10 million consoles. I'm sure Nintendo will sell lots more Switches and MS will sign more people up for Game Pass. Win win win.

 

[DenchDeckard]

dont know what happened here, pls ignore.

 

[nowhat]

Sony and Nintendo only care about hardware sales.

Not sure about Nintendo, but have you looked at how much Sony makes from MTX? Their own games don't have that much of them, but they do get their cut from everything sold via PSN. Hint: they do definitely care about those too.

 

[Calverz]

I don't think MS is worried. The company makes a crap ton of money and their revenue for the Xbox division looks solid (though who knows if they are even making a profit, they refuse to say).

But you know.. generations are only like 5-7 years. Another 1-2 years and we are halfway done and will be hearing rumblings about the next, next-gen, if not "pro" consoles. Don't ignore how quickly time passes. Momentum and launch periods absolutely matter.

I think being this badly beaten 20% of the way through the generation with no real recourse or view at actually turning things around, while the two main industry competitors are absolutely crushing it, isn't exactly a reason to celebrate.

But hey, they are beating Amazon and Google.

Lmao do u think hardware sales really bother MS now?? Money hs always been in software and now subscriptions. Hardware is a gateway to more software sales and subs. So the more hardware the better. But remember Xbox is consoles, pc and phones now. Therefore if I think about it, Sony have 10million opportunities to sell software and subs.
How many millions does MS have for that opportunity? A hell of a lot more

 

[anothertech]

Sony can't even keep up with demand and they sold this many. Dam

 

[arvfab]

MS is doing better in the service and subscription vein and Nintendo and Sony are doing better in hardware sales.

Are you speaking about MS as a whole (so Office 365) or only Xbox?

Becaue Sony has 47.6 million PS+ subscribers and over 3 mil. PSNow, while MS last official numbers were 18 GP subscribers and probably only a few mil. more Live Gold only subs.

 

[kingkaiser]

What about manufacturing costs, though? I've heard they finally broke even in June, which means most of those 10 million units were sold at a loss.
Nonetheless pretty impressive numbers. Sony is obviously leading in mind share. It's gonna be an uphill battle for MS the entire generation.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Bro how come you never obsess over sales figures for Xb... oh nevermind

Losers focus on winners.

 

[PropellerEar]

This will always be an interesting dynamic. Sony and Nintendo only care about hardware sales.

DirkMagusDCXIX @fanfiction.net strikes with a BS narrative again...

MSFT made a big deal of 3rd place record HW sales in their fiscal report, and you're telling they don't care???

 

[Zok310]

I don't think Demon Souls did too hot. Sony Japan Studios closed not long after.

I was looking at Souls sales numbers the other day and was pretty surprised that Bloodborne only did 2 million lifetime? That's the best Souls game right there it deserves more. So, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a pretty low number, it will probably get better as the console matures though.

They don’t deserve more, the difficulty make these titles very niche. Unless they are released on multiple platforms expect sales to be below 3 million lifetime.
A lot will have to change in terms of mechanics and difficulty for Souls type games to have mass appeal.

 

[TheGodfather07]

look all this competiton and banter between fans is funny but in the end we should be happy that the industry is extremely healthy. all three companies are healthy and offering something unique. we are in for one of the best gens of all time imo.

 

[ZywyPL]

First to 10M, nice.

The games sales tho don't paint a good picture, I see you guys jumping on Ryan once again for no next-gen-only games, saying the userbase is clearly there, but just look at the numbers - Returnal 0.5M, R&C 1M, DS no data at all, while at the same time cross-gen MM does 6.5M, let alone their biggest upcoming IPs like Horizon, GoW and GT that do 15-20M on PS4 alone.

That's why attach rate is IMO a viable metric, and probably what Ryan himself uses to predict the sales/judge whether a game was successful or not, because in reality, only the absolutely biggest hits reach 15-20% attach rate level, ~10% is still a very good result, while the vast majority of games falls within single digit numbers. So even 15-20% out of 10-15M wouldn't be good at all, not with $100-150M budgets, so until at least a third of current PS4 userbase migrates onto PS5 there won't be any big, expensive next-gen only games.

So let's hope the supply issues will finally end next year.

 

[Marcus Aurelius]

Switch had insane supply constraints it's first year.

True but not this year.

 

[Felessan]

Their own games don't have that much of them

This is not exactly true. Sony 1st party games accounts for 17% of all games sold through PSN, it's significant number.

 

[nowhat]

This is not exactly true. Sony 1st party games accounts for 17% of all games sold through PSN, it's significant number.

I meant that they don't include microtransactions nearly to the same extent as games from the usual suspects. Game sales are important too, but the MTX money is quite ridiculous (and sad).

 

[DavidGzz]

Imagine how many more it could've been without supply constraints and scalpers. Impressive, nonetheless.

I was thinking that maybe the rarity is what make people want it even more though. The scarcity principle? Word of mouth spreads about how hard it is to get as well, then even people who may have waited if they were on shelves impulse buy it.

Congrats to Sony!

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

The Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo weren’t even out when I was 9 years old.

Same for me

 

[SoggyBiscuit]

I was thinking that maybe the rarity is what make people want it even more though. The scarcity principle? Word of mouth spreads about how hard it is to get as well, then even people who may have waited if they were on shelves impulse buy it.

Congrats to Sony!

It definitely worked for Nintendo with the Wii.

Word of mouth marketing worked a dream for them back then, I can certainly see the parallels between those two consoles here also.

 

[Mozza]

Makes you wonder how high that could be without supply constraints, wild

Love the way people on here go on about scalpers and boys buying everything, then when Sony report 10 million consoles sold, they are all of a sudden in people's homes.

 

[IDKFA]

Very impressive, especially when you consider it's still difficult to get one.

 

[Mozza]

It would be double or triple that if there was unlimited supply.

Very impressive, especially when you consider it's still difficult to get one.

You have to question why it's been so difficult with so many consoles available, unless the scalpers have more stock of these than we all initially thought.

I still can't get either a PS5 or Series X, without paying over the retail price on E-bay, which even though the mark ups are less than at launch, I am simply unwilling to do on general principle.

 

[Topher]

Love the way people on here go on about scalpers and boys buying everything, then when Sony report 10 million consoles sold, they are all of a sudden in people's homes.

Not sure what point you are making here. 85 to 90% of all PS5s sold were not bought by scalpers. So the vast majority are, in fact, in people's homes.

 

[Mozza]

Not sure what point you are making here. 85 to 90% of all PS5s sold were not bought by scalpers. So the vast majority are, in fact, in people's homes.

And you know this how?, I mean even if a large portion was bought for resale, they sell may be in people's homes.

My biggest concern here, considering I still can't buy a console, is are resellers hanging on to consoles, as not to flood their own market, as it's a pretty easy buck to make.

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

Not sure what point you are making here. 85 to 90% of all PS5s sold were not bought by scalpers. So the vast majority are, in fact, in people's homes.

Another conclusion that follows is if the scalpers keep buying it's because they're selling. No one keeps buying lots of product to stock up, let it rot and gradually (or suddenly) lose all window of opportunity to maximize profit. And the prices haven't dropped that far below where they started so that only means demand is still very high and lots of people are willing to pay their prices.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

And you know this how?, I mean even if a large portion was bought for resale, they sell may be in people's homes.

My biggest concern here considering I still can't buy a console, is are resellers hanging on to consoles, as not to flood their own market, as it's a pretty easy buck to make.

Scalpers could be non-existent and you still wouldn't be able to get one

That's what happens when demand outweights supply

 

[Topher]

And you know this how?, I mean even if a large portion was bought for resale, they sell may be in people's homes.

My biggest concern here considering I still can't buy a console, is are resellers hanging on to consoles, as not to flood their own market, as it's a pretty easy buck to make.

Don't get me wrong. Scalpers are not helping the problem, but the primary issue here is overwhelming demand and short supply. You want a new console......and so does everyone else.

This is the article that states the percentage I quoted.

https://gamerant.com/ps5-consoles-scalpers-profits/

 

[Mozza]

Scalpers could be non-existent and you still wouldn't be able to get one

That's what happens when demand outweights supply

Not sure if we were in a more regular retail environment I would not have been able to bag a console.

And we can't have it all ways, we know these scalper boys are very effective, and their job made much easier with pretty much total online sales.

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

And you know this how?, I mean even if a large portion was bought for resale, they sell may be in people's homes.

My biggest concern here considering I still can't buy a console, is are resellers hanging on to consoles, as not to flood their own market, as it's a pretty easy buck to make.

But you can buy one, you're just either not trying as hard as others do, or not being smart, and the easy way is to pay the price.

Many people are buying PS5s for a lot higher than the official price. In my country, Dominican Republic , many small retailers sell the PS5 disc version for around US$1100. And they sell. Believe it or not.

You want to know how much they ask for a Series X? US$615 (converted currency) and more often than not they also include 2 (TWO) years of Game Pass (Sometimes Game Pass Ultimate) And they always have stock. But the PS5 sells more, way more than the Series.

You see the discrepancy? How come two consoles both MSRP US$500 in USA, where they import them from can have such a price gap between them? Either they are getting those Series X in lots for a very convenient price or simply put, demand is very poor. I mean, it's not like one retailer is selling it at that "low price" (as an imported item it really is quite low considering currency exchange, shipping and import fees), all of them are, as if they overstocked on something they just can't sell because no one wants it and therefore they can't raise the price.

Seriously, the PS5 is US$1100 and you won't find one store daring to ask over US$625 for a Series X.

 

[Captain Toad]

You have to question why it's been so difficult with so many consoles available, unless the scalpers have more stock of these than we all initially thought.

Gaming demand is just at an all-time high. Like I said, Sony probably could have sold triple the amount if they had the supply. When demand triples supply, it's going to be difficult with or without scalpers.

All scalpers are doing (especially with their bots) are raising the price. It's not that it's nearly impossible to buy a PS5, it's just that it's nearly impossible to buy a PS5 at MSRP.

 

[ReBurn]

Gaming demand is just at an all-time high. Like I said, Sony probably could have sold triple the amount if they had the supply. When demand triples supply, it's going to be difficult with or without scalpers.

All scalpers are doing (especially with their bots) are raising the price. It's not that it's nearly impossible to buy a PS5, it's just that it's nearly impossible to buy a PS5 at MSRP.

I dont know they would have sold triple. 30 million consoles in 9 months seems a bit unrealistic.

 

[demigod]

And the crowd goes wild chanting “7 more years, 7 more years!!!”

Enjoy your third place again.

 

[Unknown?]

I dont know they would have sold triple. 30 million consoles in 9 months seems a bit unrealistic.

I agree but I think close to double would be possible.

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

And the crowd goes wild chanting “7 more years, 7 more years!!!”

Enjoy your third place again.

C'mon man, you know Amazon and Google are their competitors, not Sony.

 

[reinking]

Love the way people on here go on about scalpers and boys buying everything, then when Sony report 10 million consoles sold, they are all of a sudden in people's homes.

What do you think scalpers are buying consoles for? They want to flip them as quickly as possible. You will know when people stop buying from them because the inventory will dry up on resell sites. Scalpers are not sitting on inventory and to think so is being ignorant.

 

[veterangamerUK]

9.5 million of those sold to scalpers

 

[supernova8]

I agree.

It's up to the manufacturer and retailers to create a new system/process. In the ever evolving world where scalping has become the norm and so popular, it's really on them to figure out how to make it fair for all.

I don't know how but there needs to be some sort of say ticket/waiting list system from the pre order date in every country and not just everyone jump online and grab one as quick as you can.

People can always say oh just don't buy from scalpers but the fix needs to come from the source and if companies like Sony care about their consumers and fairness then they should be partly held responsible to do something to help prevent the situation.

Yep totally with you.

I suppose the other option would be for the retailers to make their own "scalping bots" in a way that you put your name into a "hat" and then whenever there is a PS5 etc. in stock, it picks one of them randomly. The best way to do this would be to force everyone "in the hat" to put down the entire price of the device. Doing this would stop scalpers from just creating hundreds of accounts and spamming the "hat" (because every "entry" would require them to actually pay for a console in advance and their liquidity would be fucked).

In other words, I think the only way to beat scalpers is for the retailers to out-scalp the scalpers.

 

[Unknown?]

9.5 million of those sold to scalpers

9.5 million sold for $1000-$1200?! Sony has the highest demand ever, imagine if people could get them for retail!

 

[nordique]

Unreal especially given how it’s just sold out everywhere

Very well done! Love my PS5

 

[Mozza]

But you can buy one, you're just either not trying as hard as others do, or not being smart, and the easy way is to pay the price.

Many people are buying PS5s for a lot higher than the official price. In my country, Dominican Republic , many small retailers sell the PS5 disc version for around US$1100. And they sell. Believe it or not.

You want to know how much they ask for a Series X? US$615 (converted currency) and more often than not they also include 2 (TWO) years of Game Pass (Sometimes Game Pass Ultimate) And they always have stock. But the PS5 sells more, way more than the Series.

You see the discrepancy? How come two consoles both MSRP US$500 in USA, where they import them from can have such a price gap between them? Either they are getting those Series X in lots for a very convenient price or simply put, demand is very poor. I mean, it's not like one retailer is selling it at that "low price" (as an imported item it really is quite low considering currency exchange, shipping and import fees), all of them are, as if they overstocked on something they just can't sell because no one wants it and therefore they can't raise the price.

Seriously, the PS5 is US$1100 and you won't find one store daring to ask over US$625 for a Series X.

You can buy a PS5 for around £600, and a Series X for around £550, and have been able to do so for a while now, but still refuse to pay over the £450 retail price, in no great rush.

 

[Mozza]

What do you think scalpers are buying consoles for? They want to flip them as quickly as possible. You will know when people stop buying from them because the inventory will dry up on resell sites. Scalpers are not sitting on inventory and to think so is being ignorant.

Are you calling me ignorant, seems a bit harsh as I was only posing a question, but like you said the demand is higher than usual, probably down to the global pandemic.

 

[Bryank75]

They'd have hit 50 million in 2 years if supply could meet demand.

Then in year 3/4 they could have launched a Pro model for 6-700 or more with very impressive specs to get a very profitable SKU out there.

Even a handheld that runs all PSP/Vita and PS4 versions of games would be incredible to expand the ecosystem.

 

[reinking]

Are you calling me ignorant, seems a bit harsh as I was only posing a question, but like you said the demand is higher than usual, probably down to the global pandemic.

I said "being" ignorant. Very smart people can be ignorant about certain topics at times. Sometimes on purpose. It only makes sense that scalpers are still churning consoles or they would stop buying them. While that might mean they are delaying delivery to the end user by a week or two the consoles are still making it to gamers.

 

[Mozza]

I said "being" ignorant. Very smart people can be ignorant about certain topics at times. Sometimes on purpose. It only makes sense that scalpers are still churning consoles or they would stop buying them. While that might mean they are delaying delivery to the end user by a week or two the consoles are still making it to gamers.

who said I was very smart.

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

You can buy a PS5 for around £600, and a Series X for around £550, and have been able to do so for a while now, but still refuse to pay over the £450 retail price, in no great rush.

I understand, but this is what you said and what I replied to:

"My biggest concern here considering I still can't buy a console, is are resellers hanging on to consoles, as not to flood their own market, as it's a pretty easy buck to make."

Now you say you can buy a console...you make no sense implying they are hanging on to consoles if you can easily find one whatever the price.