Support NeoGAF

[klee123]

Saying Mario Kart 3DS is a rehash of Mario Kart 64 is just as valid as saying Uncharted Vita is a rehash of Uncharted 1/2.

But does mario Kart 64 offer a UNIQUE gameplay experience so different from anything else in the market like how half of the nintendo fanboys claim the 3DS library offers in this thread?

I'm not claiming that Uncharted on Vita is something completely different from the PS3 games here, but to claim that the 3DS library as revolutionary game experiences is just BS.

 

[gofreak]

This. This is why the 3DS is the PSP and the Vita is the DS.

I'm not sure I'd go that far. However I think the relative differentiation vs home is a completely different situation now compared PSP/DS - and even much different than before E3, with the Wii U announcement. That's actually undermining the uniqueness of quite a lot of DS's gameplay models vs Nintendo's home systems. And you can even see it reflected in some of Nintendo's 3DS announcements - cross-platform Smash Bros and Lego games. In terms of platform differentiation 3DS may lean on simple portability far more than its predecessor.

 

[Inanna]

I also find it hillarious that people claim that the 3DS will have "unique" experiences when the hyped games are basically rehashes of old 64 games and PS2 ports.

And they turn around and use the same positive as a negative for PSV, even though we've seen quite a few games on PSV that aren't ports of old games.

 

[Maastricht]

There is one major advantage one the side of nintendo and sony. Battery Life, the iphone and android phones have decent batteries, more or less. This is decent when just doing regular things like texting and the occasional web browsing. If you throw in something as heavy as gaming into the formula you cut the battery down more then a half. The PSV and 3DS have the advantage of being made as gaming devices first, so people won't have to worry about not using all their battery because they still need the device to text as they would with a cellphone.

And second is controls. I don't know about you but fruit ninja is a neat game on the iphone I admit, but I cannot imagine playing god of war on my cellphone. I need a lot more then just a plain touchscreen with buttons overlaid. As long as games like bioshock and potentially elder scrolls come to the handhelds there is no need to worry about cellphones taking over.

Seriously. Phones have gone pretty much unchallenged, with ever newer versions of phones going up against the same old hardware from DS and PSP. Even then, there are a surprisingly large number of games that are still quite superior on the PSP for instance - something like Soul Calibur on PSP holds its own pretty well, and with the buttons and d-pad on the PSP just plays far, far better. Same goes for stuff like Burnout, imho, which I also enjoyed a lot more on PSP. And where's Daxter for iPhone? LocoRoco and many other games also still pack quite a bit more oomph than most phone games.

But the DS and PSP are from 2004. Yes, 2004! By the time Vita comes out, that's 7 years ago. What I'm seeing from Vita are games that wipe the floor with iPhone games (which I keep trying to play, though Angry Birds is still the only one with substance that has kept my interest!) in every way possible. It will be quite a while before an iPhone game will be able to put out the same graphics. Then it will be quite a while before an iPhone game will be as much of a joy to control. Then it will be quite a while before a large enough group of iPhone owners have upgraded to warrant developers really making use of the hardware. Then ...

There are a lot of things being overlooked right now. I think the iOS / Android devices will keep selling a tonne. But the dedicated game devices will encroach on their terrain in various ways, and each device will capture its area of the ever growing handheld market. The only devices that should worry slightly more than average are consoles.

Oh, and did I mention price?

 

[plufim]

But does mario Kart 64 offer a UNIQUE sooo different from the other games though like how half of the nintendo fanboys claim the 3DS library offers in this thread?

Ditto but replace mario kart with Uncharted.

Jesus christ, they're videogame series! Yes, some things remain similar, that's kind of the point. What matter is new content and a refinement of the formula.

No-one is claiming the games to be revolutionary, you just made that up. They're just saying they're really, really fucking good.

 

[hamchan]

Saying Mario Kart 3DS is a rehash of Mario Kart 64 is just as valid as saying Uncharted Vita is a rehash of Uncharted 1/2.

Neither side can use this point as their argument.

I've seen 3DS fanboys use it more though

 

[WillyFive]

But does mario Kart 64 offer a UNIQUE sooo different from the other games though like how half of the nintendo fanboys claim the 3DS library offers in this thread?

The new Kite mechanic is very different from past Mario Kart games, since gliding across the track is not something that was in the previous games.

Seems like a much bigger change that queuing up where Drake will jump to, at least.

 

[Rollo Lawson]

vita is basically the do-over people said the psp needed. it's crafted to be a safe bet. 3ds is a pricey risk. i wouldnt expect things to play out the same as before, although it wouldnt surprise me if it did. hard to predict these things

 

[herod]

Ditto but replace mario kart with Uncharted.

Jesus christ, they're videogame series! Yes, some things remain similar, that's kind of the point. What matter is new content and a refinement of the formula.

For me the point is that it's not about refinement. I buy these new Nintendo games because they change something to make it more interesting, not because they just refine it.

It's the difference between Nintendo sequels and most other sequels.

 

[onQ123]

Personally I think Sony have promoted the Vita wrong from the get go...

What they should have done is shown us a tech demo of what they plan on having people use the Vita for as a design philosophy type thing (show us ways on how to use the touchscreen in interesting ways)...instead we got Uncharted a very deep and console-centric game with tacked on touch controls...but that tells me that they don't understand that the majority of people who buy into handhelds are in it for a different experience to their console.

Patapon...Lumines...LocoRoco...Half a Minute Hero...these are the games that made playing PSP great...

So I guess you didn't see Little Big Planet Vita of ModNation Racing? because that's exactly what they showed

 

[plufim]

Neither side can use this point as their argument.

I've seen 3DS fanboys use it more though

Have you seen this thread? Or any thread on a Nintendo property (the number of people who seem to genuinely believe that ever mario and zelda game is the same astounds me)? No, this bullshit is used way too much by both sides in a perpetual argument against people that will never change their minds because they don't actually want to.

 

[Gravijah]

A clamshell design is great for protecting your screens ... too bad I had to jury-rig a home solution to keep the 3DS screens from rubbing against each other. :/

What did you end up doing?

 

[Yazus]

The only thing that matters is Software and how this Software can be made good with the tools provided by the Hardware.

I will buy the 3DS because of
-Smash Bros 3DS
-Mario Kart
-Super Mario
-Paper Mario

You can clearly see that I'm going to buy the 3DS because of it's 1st party Software which is as always top-notch.

I will eventually buy the PSV if
-Lots of JRPGs will be on it
-And by lots I mean lots of em
-Continuity of sagas from developers

 

[WillyFive]

For me the point is that it's not about refinement. I buy these new Nintendo games because they change something to make it more interesting, not because they just refine it.

It's the difference between Nintendo sequels and most other sequels.

But it's also a source of frustration for many. It's great to have every sequel be different from the original, but Nintendo also drops things from it's predecessor instead of including it in the next one.

TP lost Wind Waker's weapon system, SMG2 lost SMG1's hub world, Mario Sunshine lost Mario 64's moves, Mario Kart 64 lost SMK's coins, and such.

 

[Freezie KO]

For me the point is that it's not about refinement. I buy these new Nintendo games because they change something to make it more interesting, not because they just refine it.

It's the difference between Nintendo sequels and most other sequels.

In general, I agree. But holy shit, not with Mario Kart. They've been using the same mold for a while. I'm quite relieved to see the gliders, underwater gameplay, and the return of coins, and I really hope this one plays substantially different from the past few entries.

 

[plufim]

I hope development costs on PSV aren't too high though. PSP had a lot of interesting quirky games after the PS3/360 became pricey. Can the PSV retain these games, I wonder.

 

[Maastricht]

The new Kite mechanic is very different from past Mario Kart games, since gliding across the track is not something that was in the previous games.

Seems like a much bigger change that queuing up where Drake will jump to, at least.

On the other hand, even ignoring the new control options (options being key here) a completely different, unique story in a story driven franchise makes no difference at all ... So yeah ...

PSV development costs are probably far lower than for PSP. Far easier to develop for, and the touch interface and downloadable game store allows for easy 2D games as well as ports from Android (which can probably run in a virtualised simulation environment much like on Blackberry?).

 

[wind_steaker]

A major factor for me will be whether Vita supports web browsing / email to a similar standard of a tablet, that would probably push me over the edge, have they discussed this yet?

 

[BadWolf]

In terms of media abilities I'm most interested in knowing if it will be able to play avi/mkv files.

 

[dark10x]

So with that in mind, I'm personally more interested in the 3DS. It has the potential to offer far more unique experiences that the Vita

Can you actually expand on that point? What exactly makes you think the 3DS has more potential for unique experiences? It's the Vita this time that actually offers more on the interface side of things.

The 3DS hardware is really kind of a mess. The 3D is a gimmick in the sense that it doesn't really add much to the gameplay. Every game is required to be playable in 2D, for instance, so that kind of limits 3D. The real issue, however, lies with the fact that various features of the hardware are really at odds with each other. Use of the motion sensing, for instance, breaks the 3D effects due to the tilting so using them together doesn't make sense. The main screen is now up top so directly interesting with the game via the touch screen no longer makes sense like it did on the DS. The battery life is extremely poor for a Nintendo handheld.

The Vita can handle ALL of the unique control functions of the 3DS *AND* a lot more. The Vita offers a more flexible touch screen, rear touch, more physical buttons, and motion sensing that doesn't interfere with the visuals. In addition, the extra hardware power increases the potential for interesting software as it can be used for more than simply improved visuals.

So, again, what exactly does the 3DS offer this time that the Vita does not? With PSP and DS, the DS offered an entirely new interface and allowed for new types of games. That advantage has been removed this time around and the only thing it has over the PSP is 3D, which is cool but ultimately has less effect on the games than improved visuals (which you already claimed you don't care about).

 

[hamchan]

Thing about Nintendo sequels being similar to their predecessors is that they don't make them every damn year. After Twilight Princess I was pretty much done with 3D Zelda but it's been 5 years since then and now I'm ready for it.

I'm also ready for a new F-Zero, where the fuck is it Nintendo?

 

[Freezie KO]

I'm also ready for a new F-Zero, where the fuck is it Nintendo?

What's Monster Games doing?

 

[gofreak]

PSV development costs are probably far lower than for PSP.

They can be higher if you wanna go all out though. Something like Golden Abyss is probably quite a lot more expensive than any PSP game.

But for games of similar ambition, PSV may actually indeed be cheaper. And I'm quite confident devs will be happy to put games of smaller ambition on Vita, there's clearly already a whole range there, and a whole range of costs.

 

[Earl Cazone]

vs

 

[Rollo Lawson]

The only thing that matters is Software and how this Software can be made good with the tools provided by the Hardware.

matters in what regard? we're in an environment now where other things matter too besides the games.
convergence, for example. theres way more of a need for a device to be practical now. the vita being so inclusive of current trends will make a difference

 

[Chinner]

i'm still waiting for the 3rd party line-up to be announced for vita. the 3ds did a really excellent job of this, and vita needs to follow.

 

[herod]

In general, I agree. But holy shit, not with Mario Kart. They've been using the same mold for a while. I'm quite relieved to see the gliders, underwater gameplay, and the return of coins, and I really hope this one plays substantially different from the past few entries.

The last two added online and motion controls, these were huge bulletpoints for what is primarily a multiplayer game.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

A major factor for me will be whether Vita supports web browsing / email to a similar standard of a tablet, that would probably push me over the edge, have they discussed this yet?

Not really but they absolutely should. If Sony positions the PSV as a gaming tablet (with all the things being a tablet entails) the PSV would have a great chance of outselling the 3DS. I don't know if Sony have the software know-how to pull it off though. A $250 tablet as powerful as the PSV would sell like hot cakes.

 

[StuBurns]

They can be higher if you wanna go all out though. Something like Golden Abyss is probably quite a lot more expensive than any PSP game.

But for games of similar ambition, PSV may actually indeed be cheaper. And I'm quite confident devs will be happy to put games of smaller ambition on Vita, there's clearly already a whole range there, and a whole range of costs.

Probably not the most expensive, Type-0 must be an insane budget at this point, but I think the budgets for PSV will be really wide across the board, lots of 'mini games' that are quite cheap, and SKUs of thirty million dollar PS360 titles. In terms of exclusive content, I can't see anyone outside of rare few throwing Uncharted budgets at it.

 

[[Nintex]]

Nintendo will win this one they have the franchises that people want on their handhelds like Mario Kart and Pokemon and that is what it comes down to. Still both are super fucked going up against Wii U, tablets, smartphones etc. . I do think that the PSV will be more competitive due to price and hardware but the handheld market is getting crowded from all sides. In the end Nintendo will see most of it's success when the 3DS hits $199/$149 within 2 years with a 'lite' model. Sony will have the occasional Monster Hunter bump. Both Sony and Nintendo will be hurt by the lack of handheld third party support. Just take Square Enix who's shifting all their focus towards Eidos and Nintendo will lose most smaller devs to the various app stores. Just the prices of games alone will cut these systems off at the knees.

 

[stupei]

Well, one of them will have Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright, which I'm pretty sure is how "winning" is defined, but they'll probably both have good games from Atlus and Level-5.

I'm personally hoping for the next Valkyria Chronicles on the PSVita with the original art style and maybe Inazuma Eleven incorporating its touch screen controls and Sony won't be as scared of supporting a release in the west.

For 3DS I'm expecting a lot of the developers that made the DS my favorite gaming experience of the past 5 years to return.

Pretty sure the winner here is gamers. But is this meant to be a sales-age thread? I can't even tell.

 

[Gamecocks625]

I still think Nintendo has the upper hand here. As freaking cool as Vita is from a tech point of view, when it comes to the mainstream, price and software will still be a big issue.

Nintendo has the freedom to drop the price very quickly. Whether they do that or not is a whole other issue, but it's almost a no-brainer at this point with it being the exact same price as a Vita. So crazy. They really need to get it down to $150-$170. Once the new Super Mario, Mario Kart, Pokemon, Smash Bros. etc. hit, sales will pick up.

I really really hope to see F-Zero, Mario Golf, etc. also.

 

[f0rk]

i'm still waiting for the 3rd party line-up to be announced for vita. the 3ds did a really excellent job of this, and vita needs to follow.

What 3rd party 3DS games are you excited for? I see it as pretty weak tbh, especially when you look at how likely it is the Vita will have some MGS ports.

 

[Kaizer]

Unless Nintendo drops the price on 3DS and bundles it with something like Mario Kart, I'm most likely going to get a Vita first. The amount of tech inside the Vita on top of the visuals it can create and it's number of control options plus it's price match have already convinced me.

One big factor for me though will be JRPGs though, I see Tales of the Abyss is already coming this fall for 3DS and games like Dragon's Crown sorta appeal to the JRPG aspect I'm looking for, so it'll be interesting to see on which system the genre flourishes more. Obviously, with the Vita I think you could higher quality games just from a visual standpoint, but I feel that despite the number of JRPGs on PSP this generation, NDS still had the better selection. Games like Soma Bringer or any of the Tales games topped any JRPGs the PSP put out for me, besides Crisis Core. If the Vita will have more games like Final Fantasy Type-0 which looks impressive, it won't be hard for me to choose.

 

[dark10x]

I still think Nintendo has the upper hand here. As freaking cool as Vita is from a tech point of view, when it comes to the mainstream, price and software will still be a big issue.

Nintendo has the freedom to drop the price very quickly. Whether they do that or not is a whole other issue, but it's almost a no-brainer at this point with it being the exact same price as a Vita. So crazy. They really need to get it down to $150-$170. Once the new Super Mario, Mario Kart, Pokemon, Smash Bros. etc. hit, sales will pick up.

I really really hope to see F-Zero, Mario Golf, etc. also.

I'm sure they'll drop the price, but I doubt they'll do it that quickly. They will have the typical Nintendo audience, but are you sure the casual audience from the DS will carry over? There is evidence everywhere that many of those people that originally made the DS a success have moved onto Apple devices where they can buy the types of simplistic casual games they enjoy for 99 cents. Nintendo is clearly aiming the 3DS more at hardcore gamers this time around while trying to hold onto as many casual players as they can.

 

[F#A#Oo]

So I guess you didn't see Little Big Planet Vita of ModNation Racing? because that's exactly what they showed

Both are concole centric...and yes I saw it...and no it's not what I would put as showing off the Vita...

 

[H_Prestige]

Both are ultimately useless, but Vita is an order of magnitude better than 3DS.

 

[Gamecocks625]

I'm sure they'll drop the price, but I doubt they'll do it that quickly. They will have the typical Nintendo audience, but are you sure the casual audience from the DS will carry over? There is evidence everywhere that many of those people that originally made the DS a success have moved onto Apple devices where they can buy the types of simplistic casual games they enjoy for 99 cents. Nintendo is clearly aiming the 3DS more at hardcore gamers this time around while trying to hold onto as many casual players as they can.

I honestly don't think it will. At least the older, casual "Brain Age" audience from the DS. They've moved on to iPhone/iPad/iPod touch.

The younger crowd? Perhaps. There is still a place for Nintendo in their hearts. As long as the price gets down to the sweet spot, I think they'll be just fine.

For a games-only machine it just cannot stay at $250. Once it hits $150 or so AND you have a Mario, Pokemon, Mario Golf, Smash Bros (plus the usual 3rd party suspects), heck...I might be interested too.

Both are concole centric...and yes I saw it...and no it's not what I would put as showing off the Vita...

Why in the world would Sony show LBP and Modnation Racers?! Modnation sucked on the PSP so why would you pimp it for the Vita at E3?

Sony should have gone to Q Entertainment and said, "just give me a 10 second reel of the new Lumines" and call it a day

 

[onipex]

It the only thing that matters, because we know that every Nintendo console will have Nintendo games

The only question is, will there be worth while 3rd party games to fill the gaps between Nintendo releases? Are you OK with it if it ends up like GameCube and Wii?

It is starting out better than the Gamecube and the Wii.

I think the Vita will be a great system, but while waiting for it to launch I will have Resident Evil, a couple fighting games, Mario Kart, Mario 3DS, and whatever else pops up by years end. Not to mention the DS games I'm still catching up on.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Can you actually expand on that point? What exactly makes you think the 3DS has more potential for unique experiences? It's the Vita this time that actually offers more on the interface side of things.

The 3DS hardware is really kind of a mess. The 3D is a gimmick in the sense that it doesn't really add much to the gameplay. Every game is required to be playable in 2D, for instance, so that kind of limits 3D. The real issue, however, lies with the fact that various features of the hardware are really at odds with each other. Use of the motion sensing, for instance, breaks the 3D effects due to the tilting so using them together doesn't make sense. The main screen is now up top so directly interesting with the game via the touch screen no longer makes sense like it did on the DS. The battery life is extremely poor for a Nintendo handheld.

The Vita can handle ALL of the unique control functions of the 3DS *AND* a lot more. The Vita offers a more flexible touch screen, rear touch, more physical buttons, and motion sensing that doesn't interfere with the visuals. In addition, the extra hardware power increases the potential for interesting software as it can be used for more than simply improved visuals.

So, again, what exactly does the 3DS offer this time that the Vita does not? With PSP and DS, the DS offered an entirely new interface and allowed for new types of games. That advantage has been removed this time around and the only thing it has over the PSP is 3D, which is cool but ultimately has less effect on the games than improved visuals (which you already claimed you don't care about).

The fact that you say 3D is a gimmick and go on to point out that the touch screen on the back is "more flexible" pretty much shows your complete bias.

If you had a 3DS and watched some of the E3 trailers, you'd realize it's not a gimmick, watching the Super Mario video was amazing, jumping up and on to ropes and such and you could actually gauge where your character was by the depth.

I'm not discounting the Vita at all, at that price, with 1 or 2 launch games I'm really interested in, I'm in on day 1.

But watching the Zelda, Super Mario, Mario Kart, Paper Mario games in actual 3D instead of just trailers (not to mention how great Luigis Mansion 2 looks even though I'm not interested) is huge. Seeing is believing ... and my guess is that a vast majority of the people proclaiming Vita dominance haven't seen a 3DS in action.

The Vita CAN'T handle all the unique functions. It has only 1 screen.

While the power difference is obvious I don't think that matters much to many consumers. The Vita looks great, priced amazingly, and has a regurgitated yet pretty decent launch lineup assuming they all make it ... but it is something kids want? Do you really think the 100+ million DS' out there is from the market that reads GAF or watches E3 conferences and pays attention to the spec sheets? They see a game and want that.

Can you imagine what a next gen 3D Pokemon game will do?

Sony has its work cut out for them, I'm not discounting them as this industry can change on a whim. But as much as I was almost regretting the 3DS purchase, just watching those short videos showed me what the potential is and what the system will become.

Sales are going up, they've sold over 4m of them and when a price drop hits around Christmas with a Mario game ... it will be pretty crazy.

 

[Father_Brain]

i'm still waiting for the 3rd party line-up to be announced for vita. the 3ds did a really excellent job of this, and vita needs to follow.

Third-party support - and, to a lesser degree, third-party software pricing - is definitely Vita's biggest question mark now that the price issue has been resolved.

Honestly, I'm just not sure what's going on with Sony's reticence in that regard. At the initial NGP reveal in January, Sony decided to withhold a third-party sizzle reel that they had spent time preparing, and announced one actual third-party game (Call of Duty). At E3, CoD wasn't shown at all, and the sole third-party title demoed onstage was a straight port of a PS3/360 game.

Granted, Sony still has time to show its hand before launch (things will be clearer by/at TGS), but if they have confidence in the platform's third-party support, they're doing a very convincing impersonation of a company that doesn't.

...and yes, 3DS didn't exactly have an impressive E3 in terms of new third-party announcements, but at this point it still has a better lineup of announced exclusives than Vita does (RE:R, KH3D, the Level-5 titles). Moreover, Sony is arguably more dependent on third-party software to drive adoption, since their first-party output hasn't historically had the same system-selling power as Mario, Zelda, etc. All the more important for them to get some major announcements in the next few months.

 

[Drek]

My personal guess is that the 3DS will fall well short of the DS' market dominance, the Vita will be a solid step forward from the PSP, and we'll wind up with two handhelds both selling in the 85-90 million unit range (both better than the GBA) with solid tie ratios.

An Xbox 360/PS3 pairing, where both are about equal in market penetration. Though Nintendo will do it with 1st party IPs while Sony will do it through superior hardware and feature set.

The generation after will be where I think it gets real interesting. Will Nintendo have another DS-like innovation up their sleeve or will they roll out another disjointed system like the 3DS? Will Sony continue the strong stance they've taken with the Vita or shrink away from the forward thinking, aggressive approach they've taken after Vita gains them further market penetration?

 

[Lance Bone Path]

I have a hard time believing that Nintendo will concede that it's been gouging early adopters by dropping the 3DS's price before it releases the 3DS lite.

Any third party game that can come out for the 3DS can probably be made to work on the Vita- that's a big difference between PSP and DS.

If you look at PSP vs DS in Japan, even though total DS sales were higher, the DS probably doesn't have the mindshare it used to, so the Vita vs 3DS battle will have that difference compared to PSP vs DS. I wouldn't say that's enough to put the Vita on top, but it makes the fight a lot less one-sided.

It's been said that Nintendo tends to be complacent until the competition lights a fire under its ass, so maybe we'll see something happen with first party 3DS software.

 

[thuway]

I am going with the PSVita for a number of reasons:

1. Third party software such as Pheonix Wright, RE: Revelations, Scribblenauts, and just about any other amazing DS exclusive you can think of that would not be possible without a touch screen is now possible on PSV .

2. Transfarring is an excellent idea for a budget minded studio trying to make a Next Gen/2 title.

3. Cross Platform Play on a new title such as a Call of Duty can provide an insane amount of value.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I think at this juncture neither handheld will be as successful as the DS.

 

[plagiarize]

i do have to shake my head at people claiming they are 'the same price' because they aren't.

right now one is on sale for $250 and one isn't available at any price. next year the other one will go on sale for $250, but there is nothing (beyond perhaps arrogance) preventing the 3DS from having a price drop by then.

think about it... if psv comes out in late march (ignoring japan for the moment), and the 3DS drops price around then, that's a full year on the market at $250.

just as the PS3 had to compete with the library of the 360 at the point it came out, the PSV will have to compete with the library the 3DS will have by the end of the year. i'm sure the PSV will have a great launch line up, but it won't compete software wise with what the 3DS has by then, and it'll be interesting to see if Nintendo can and will drop the price (and by how much).

in Japan... that's a different problem. the PSP was popular there, and the PSV will be launching earlier. that said, i could see a price drop in Japan this year (to bring it in line with the US price where it is a fair bit cheaper from the exchange rate perspective).

Nintendo are in a position to *react* to the PSV. it's a good ways out. they can afford to drop their price and Sony can't.

if they don't, then they're showing hubris and will suffer just as Sony did for it.

the biggest problem the PSV has, is finding software for the european and american market. the PSP had some great games, but nothing took off on it in those markets, like Monster Hunter did in Japan, and Mario Kart and NSMB did in the US on the DS.

the PSV looks different enough i think that the failings of the PSP to gain traction won't harm it... and it offers a lot of potentially interesting options to developers that will hopefully translate into good games, but Sony need to be very clear in how they present it (so far so good i'd say) and they really need to find that western game to drive it into peoples hands.

will it be COD? it might be. i hope they find one, because the PSP deserved better.

 

[stupei]

I think at this juncture neither handheld will be as successful as the DS.

That's a given, I'd think.

 

[dark10x]

The fact that you say 3D is a gimmick and go on to point out that the touch screen on the back is "more flexible" pretty much shows your complete bias.

If you had a 3DS and watched some of the E3 trailers, you'd realize it's not a gimmick, watching the Super Mario video was amazing, jumping up and on to ropes and such and you could actually gauge where your character was by the depth.

I think both the 3D and the rear touch (especially) are somewhat gimmicky. You yourself said that visuals didn't matter and 3D only serves to enhance that aspect. The fact that all games are required to be playable in 2D as well as 3D only serves to enhance that fact.

I don't really think much of the rear touch pad, personally, but it adds additional functionality to the controls rather than simply enhancing the visuals. The DS actually offered a completely new way to play games in 2004 while the 3DS simply improves the visuals while keeping the same interface.

Another issue I have with 3DS is that it doesn't seem to have the power to handle 3D as well as it should. Many games end up suffering from massive performance hits in 3D. Dead or Alive, for instance, drops from 60 fps to 30 fps during combat and from 30 fps to 15 fps for cutscenes in 3D. 3D is nifty, but it's not worth the performance penalty.

Seeing is believing ... and my guess is that a vast majority of the people proclaiming Vita dominance haven't seen a 3DS in action.

Oh? Is that right?

but it is something kids want? Do you really think the 100+ million DS' out there is from the market that reads GAF or watches E3 conferences and pays attention to the spec sheets?

No. In fact, I believe that a lot of that audience has moved on to Apple devices. I see more kids playing games on an iPod Touch these days than on a DS. The iPhone and iPad also capture the attention of the most casual fans who simply want an occasional game. I believe Apple is actually the largest threat to Nintendo at this point. The market the DS succeeded in has changed.

 

[chubigans]

DS was something almost totally new to it's market , 3DS isn't that new to the 150 Million people that already have a DS.

That didn't help much with the PS2>PS3 transition.

 

[Drek]

The fact that you say 3D is a gimmick and go on to point out that the touch screen on the back is "more flexible" pretty much shows your complete bias.

If you had a 3DS and watched some of the E3 trailers, you'd realize it's not a gimmick, watching the Super Mario video was amazing, jumping up and on to ropes and such and you could actually gauge where your character was by the depth.

1. dark10x's post was primarily pointing out how the 3D, motion sensing, touch screen, etc. all conflict with each other within a given gameplay experience on the DS. That is what makes them into gimmicks and makes it a disjointed hardware design. You can't do all features in any given game. Meanwhile on the PSP you can implement all of its hardware features in a given game if you so wish, and many developers will likely find organic ways to do so. That is poor hardware design on Nintendo's system.

I'm not discounting the Vita at all, at that price, with 1 or 2 launch games I'm really interested in, I'm in on day 1.

But watching the Zelda, Super Mario, Mario Kart, Paper Mario games in actual 3D instead of just trailers (not to mention how great Luigis Mansion 2 looks even though I'm not interested) is huge. Seeing is believing ... and my guess is that a vast majority of the people proclaiming Vita dominance haven't seen a 3DS in action.

The Vita CAN'T handle all the unique functions. It has only 1 screen.

2. Vita can't do everything the 3DS can, but then there are tons of things the Vita can do that the 3DS can't as well. The real key here is that the Vita doesn't make you sacrifice one hardware feature to successfully use another, or require you to design a game around a specific hardware feature while ignoring the others. Developers can just make games and as they see organic ways to include the touch screen, rear touchpad, motion sensors, etc. they can incorporate them. With the 3DS if you want to make a 3D-centric game you've got to rule out motion controls. If you want to actively use the touch screen you've got to consider how that blocks view of the lower screen now. If you want a game with pinpoint controls you have to understand the inaccuracies and vagaries of the 3D view, etc.. A lot of pieces just do not fit with one another as seamlessly as you'd expect from a Nintendo device.

While the power difference is obvious I don't think that matters much to many consumers. The Vita looks great, priced amazingly, and has a regurgitated yet pretty decent launch lineup assuming they all make it ... but it is something kids want? Do you really think the 100+ million DS' out there is from the market that reads GAF or watches E3 conferences and pays attention to the spec sheets? They see a game and want that.

Can you imagine what a next gen 3D Pokemon game will do?

3. Do you really think the odds are in favor of Nintendo having another 140+ million unit selling handheld? The entire Gameboy line (including color and pocket) had a lifespan of over a decade and only moved 118 million. GBA in its various iterations only moved 81 million. It was the only legitimate handheld option throughout its lifecycle while doing that. Nintendo IPs don't make Nintendo handhelds sell at the rate the DS sold. A unique feature set that strikes a chord with consumers, highly competitive price, and strong 3rd party support does. None of that is guaranteed with the 3DS. In fact we already know that the price starting out is far from the mass market appeal point the DS lived its entire life at.

Sony has its work cut out for them, I'm not discounting them as this industry can change on a whim. But as much as I was almost regretting the 3DS purchase, just watching those short videos showed me what the potential is and what the system will become.

Sales are going up, they've sold over 4m of them and when a price drop hits around Christmas with a Mario game ... it will be pretty crazy.

By a simple statistical evaluation of where the two companies handheld offerings are headed its only logical to conclude that the 3DS is headed for regression while the Vita is headed for growth. It doesn't mean the 3DS will bomb, that doesn't seem even reasonably possible, but it is very unlikely to have the market dominance of the DS.