Support NeoGAF

[Diprosalic]

Isn't the matchmaking random in PUBG?

I don't even understand how you could "stream snipe" in this game.

since you need 90-100 players to start a game and there's "only" like 150-300k concurrent players all over the world at any given point in time it makes sense that by trying for hours and timing your matchmaking with the streamer that you'll get lucky sooner or later.

napkin maths but let's say NA has 70k people playing during the day and the vast majority of them are idle or in-game. that would mean that only a few thousand are searching for a game and since you need quite a few players for one match, it's probably easier than you'd think.

 

[paperspace]

⁣

 

[Airbar]

Not every streamer is a whiny bitch that cries for banning someone and the game was also popularized by youtubers.
Even streamers can get banned for going against the c.o.c. - as shown by DrDisrespect who teamkilled someone when he was playing with PU himself.

The thing with the DrDisrespect ban is that I was already wary of the company when they banned him for that teamkill. Like I don't get their "guidelines" at all.
It seems to me they (or PU himself) have a very specific vision of how the game is to be played. And they'll try everything they can to enforce that vision.

 

[luulubuu]

Eh..

The fact that someone is, in a lot of cases, working doesn't allow others to take advantage of the situation.


What is wrong with you.

 

[Diprosalic]

Victim blaming: The thread

gtfo with that term.
victim blamin is a serious thing, this is a small annoyance at most.

 

[LordCanti]

It seems like they got the wrong guy for stream sniping. That's rather unfortunate. If that turns out to be the case I hope that they'll make things right with the person that got banned by mistake.

Isn't the matchmaking random in PUBG?

I don't even understand how you could "stream snipe" in this game.

A lot of the streamers land somewhere spicy from the start and begin killing people. You'd then see them on the kill feed in the game, open your browser, load their stream, and basically try to hunt them down. It happens to the big streamers often enough that they're all pretty fed up.

Actually getting into a game with someone is pretty random (unless there's an exploit I don't know about) even if you queue at the same time as them. I've tried and failed multiple times while watching Giantbomb play for instance (not to stream snipe them).

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Seems fair to me, love how these devs are engaged with the community.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Victim blaming: The thread

Egregious misuse of a phrase: The post

 

[Amneisac]

The problem is that they can't prove the person they banned was stream sniping.






Hopefully that's short enough so people will read it instead of just arguing about whether stream sniping is ethical or not.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

How is this bananable? Ridiculous

Because it's cheating? You're using another person's stream to find out where they are on the map so you can kill them.

 

[Crema]

Seems fair to me, love how these devs are engaged with the community.

Either you didn't actually read the story or your concept of 'fair' would make early 19th century capitalists blush.

This is an example of a company determining who it bans based on the value of the customer. In this case, they have banned a user based on complaints from another user who they deem more valuable. Unless they have some incredible evidence that we aren't aware of at this time, it really shouldn't be applauded.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Because it's cheating? You're using another person's stream to find out where they are on the map so you can kill them.

But it is not clear if they were actually doing that.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

But it is not clear if they were actually doing that.

I'm not saying this case was particularly justified, but that person was asking how the concept of stream sniping is bannable in general. If someone can prove that a player is going around intentionally doing this, it's perfectly reasonable to ban them.

 

[Springy]

The only reasonable measure we can take is to force every player to stream, so it's an even playing field.

Then we'll all be 'working'.

 

[Jimnymebob]

How is this anyone other than the streamer's fault?

It's like if I was playing hide and seek, and I was livestreaming myself as I hid.

 

[Jacqli]

This is not new, DBD developers also ban for this reason or, at least, they added that rule.

 

[Hasney]

This is not new, DBD developers also ban for this reason or, at least, they added that rule.

But do they ban without much proof or explaining how they worked out they were sniping?

 

[Crazy Diamond]

How is this anyone other than the streamer's fault?

He should stop (potentially?) making a living in the way that he does to cater to a cheater! NeoGAF never ceases to amaze.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

Because it's cheating? You're using another person's stream to find out where they are on the map so you can kill them.

A) The streamer willingly chooses to make that information public. It's an inherent risk, and the ramifications of that are on them.

B) There is absolutely no way of proving stream sniping took place. I don't care how "obvious" somebody says it is. Circumstantial evidence is not evidence.

 

[Diprosalic]

i found this blizzard statement on stream sniping and it sounds very reasonable.

We've continued to see reports regarding someone live streaming their match, and their opponent watching the stream in order to gain an in-game advantage (also known as stream sniping). While this is obviously poor sportsmanship on the part of the one viewing the stream, we'd like to clarify that this is not a violation of any current policies. In fact, we cannot enforce any ‘fair play' policies if a user chooses to provide their opponent an advantage. If someone in-game chooses to tell their opponent every move they're making, thereby informing them how to counter it, we cannot conclude that any violation has taken place. Even if this could be considered a violation, we simply cannot micro-manage every streamed match to ensure the opponent was not looking at it, or using it to their advantage. It goes far beyond the scope of what we're able to enforce. It's advisable for those streaming to take precautions, including delaying their streams by a significant amount of time, to avoid any potential advantage they may be providing their opponent.

i'm no law expert by any stretch of the imagination but i just can't see the legality of banning someone for stream sniping.

 

[ClosingADoor]

He should stop (potentially?) making a living in the way that he does to cater to a cheater! NeoGAF never ceases to amaze.

No, he should take into account this can happen because of the way he makes a living.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

ITT, the one who is streaming their game on Twitch is blamed for someone else cheating, looking up their stream.

Edit : but it is true, the burden of proof would be on the steamer. They need to prove the player was stream sniping. That'd be some hard shit to prove, but needs to be proven nonetheless. The player on the op should be lifted from the ban.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

He should stop (potentially?) making a living in the way that he does to cater to a cheater! NeoGAF never ceases to amaze.

As best I can tell, nobody here is saying that streamers should stop streaming (at least, I hope not). But that doesn't change the fact that if they are stream sniped, then they need to accept it's just something that happens Because banning people for it is bullshit, as it cannot be definitively proven.

Sure, in a perfect fantasy world, it would be possible to prove it, and stream sniping would (and should) be banned. but we don't live in a perfect fantasy world. We live in reality, where it cannot be proven. And something that cannot be proven should not be enforced.

 

[Grassy]

uh yeah because streamers do something on stream that twitch doesn't want you to stream.
this is a company banning someone for something they did on a third party site.

The PUBG "Rules of conduct" state that stream-sniping is a form of cheating and a bannable offence - https://www.playbattlegrounds.com/rulesOfConduct.pu

since you need 90-100 players to start a game and there's "only" like 150-300k concurrent players all over the world at any given point in time it makes sense that by trying for hours and timing your matchmaking with the streamer that you'll get lucky sooner or later.

napkin maths but let's say NA has 70k people playing during the day and the vast majority of them are idle or in-game. that would mean that only a few thousand are searching for a game and since you need quite a few players for one match, it's probably easier than you'd think.

It is easier than a lot of people think. The lobby can last for 2-3 minutes waiting on players, and the server ID is shown on-screen, so if someone really wants to join a streamers match they have a decent chance. I assume some people might also see a streamers name in the kill-feed and then bring up their stream to see where they are in-game as well.

 

[Springy]

He should stop (potentially?) making a living in the way that he does to cater to a cheater! NeoGAF never ceases to amaze.

This is fascinating. The streamer is utilizing a product intended as entertainment for consumers. It's not a business application. They're then going into a public server with, presumably, 99 other consumers using the product as intended.

Professional soccer players don't earn a living by joining in kickabouts in parks. Involving members of the public in television broadcasts requires their permission. How is the onus on anybody other than the person 'making a living' here to act with consideration? The only reason this can be justified has already been stated: the developers rely on streamers for promotion of their game.

 

[Crema]

ITT, the one who is streaming their game on Twitch is blamed for someone else cheating, looking up their stream.

ITT no one bothers to read.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

A) The streamer willingly chooses to make that information public. It's an inherent risk, and the ramifications of that are on them.

B) There is absolutely no way of proving stream sniping took place. I don't care how "obvious" somebody says it is. Circumstantial evidence is not evidence.

As someone else has said, this isn't the first game to ban stream snipers. Sorry you don't like it, but it's cheating no matter which way you cut it.

Them choosing to make it public doesn't change the fact that it's cheating. They're still going outside the rules of the game to figure out ways to get a strategic advantage. It's a dick move and people deserve to be banned for it, because streaming isn't going away, nor should they have to worry about dick heads coming in and ruining their fun.

 

[Robin64]

As best I can tell, nobody here is saying that streamers should stop streaming (at least, I hope not). But that doesn't change the fact that if they are stream sniped, then they have to suck it up and deal with it, because banning people for it is bullshit, as it cannot be definitively proven.

Exactly. Keep streaming, keep making your money, but don't cry when someone uses info you put out there for everyone to see to kill you. Accept the death, carry on, keep getting your money.

 

[Salty Rice]

You want to encourage players to stream, free pr.

So essentially they ban people because they want good PR and more money.

 

[Kayant]

Wow that's some shitty ban policy even if they were doing it its not something to ban over.

 

[Diprosalic]

The PUBG "Rules of conduct" state that stream-sniping is a form of cheating and a bannable offence - https://www.playbattlegrounds.com/rulesOfConduct.pu

are rules of conduct a legal document? can you legally take away someone's rights to play your game if they don't follow them? how can you possibly ever proof stream sniping?

 

[amar212]

I am maybe old and whatever, but amongst all things regarding modern time gamjng, this is absolutely the most stupid, crazy and bullshit thing ever.

You don't want to be "stream sniped"? Don't stream.

What kind of stupid "rule" is that? Why should somebody be blamed for taking advantage of someone elses deliberately chosen weakness?

Oh, the principal companies wants to protect their free marketing and streamers revenues? Bu-hu.

This is uterlly nonsensical.

 

[djp6]

this is some nonsense though has the dude not heard of a stream delay?? the banned person should really sue

 

[OraleeWey]

If you livetweet your troop movements during a war to raise morale and national support, is it a war crime for the other side to ambush those troops or use an airstrike? Asking for a friend.

All is fair in love and war

 

[Plasma]

ITT, the one who is streaming their game on Twitch is blamed for someone else cheating, looking up their stream.

The person who was banned wasn't watching their stream, he killed the streamer after hearing a large shootout between the streamer and the stream sniper. This is why it is stupid to ban people over this because it's difficult so prove and too easy to ban people who haven't done anything wrong.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Victim blaming: The thread

Using the term victim blaming for a situation like this is a joke.

 

[MUnited83]

But it is not clear if they were actually doing that.

Not for you, who doesn't have the tools to properly analyze it. The Devs do.

 

[Jimnymebob]

He should stop (potentially?) making a living in the way that he does to cater to a cheater! NeoGAF never ceases to amaze.

I remember the part when I wrote that.

So, because someone allegedly watched him on his stream, and killed him, that's going to affect his income?

 

[Zemm]

Banning for stream snipping, fucking hell. If Blizzard banned people for stream sniping in hearthstone half the legend players would have been banned at some point. Either put a delay on the stream or accept people will stream snipe. It's really simple. A ban should never be an option.

 

[DarkTom]

I need to patent a solution to that.

Too bad it can't be as simple as this

 

[OraleeWey]

You're allowed to play poker with all of your cards laying face up on the table, but I wouldn't recommend it.

This sums it up perfectly well.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

As someone else has said, this isn't the first game to ban stream snipers. Sorry you don't like it, but it's cheating no matter which way you cut it.

Them choosing to make it public doesn't change the fact that it's cheating. They're still going outside the rules of the game to figure out ways to get a strategic advantage. It's a dick move and people deserve to be banned for it, because streaming isn't going away, nor should they have to worry about dick heads coming in and ruining their fun.

Yes, it's cheating. I'm not here to dispute the ethical quandry of stream sniping. I'm disputing the logical fallacy of attempting to enforce rules when it is impossible to prove that said rules have been broken. Unless you've come up with a 100% foolproof way of ensuring bans could be given out with absolutely zero possibility of innocent people being flagged when they just got a lucky kill?

 

[Easy_D]

I need to patent a solution to that.

Too bad it can't be as simple as this

There already is a solution. Increase your stream delay when playing online games like Playerunknown's Battlegrounds™

 

[wesleyshark]

Definitely bannable. Good on them.

 

[Jarth Mader]

So I guess summit1g and 1cePrime are up next on the banning block?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PUBATTLEGR...banned_for_7_days_for_stream_sniping/dktybmb/

 

[Diprosalic]

Definitely bannable. Good on them.

good job reading the thread title and nothing else.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Yes, it's cheating. But it cannot be proven, so banning people for it should not even be up for consideration. Unless you've come up with a 100% foolproof way of ensuring bans could be given out with absolutely zero possibility of innocent people being flagged when they just got a lucky kill, in which case, please do share with us.

This isn't even the standard we hold for what we ban people for now. There is no 100% fool proof way to prove that people are intentionally disconnecting from online matches instead of being unfortunate enough to have bad internet that drops for them, but that doesn't mean we just throw our hands up and say "No banning for disconnects!"

 

[MUnited83]

But do they ban without much proof or explaining how they worked out they were sniping?

There isn't a single developer out there (except Facepunch) that provides "proof" of anything. Revealing your methods just makes it easier to get around them. Go get a VAC ban on CS GO and try to have Valve provide proof for you. They ain't going to do that.

 

[wesleyshark]

good job reading the thread title and nothing else.

I read the entire OP.

 

[TheGreenArrow]

Yeah I doubt this was an actual case of stream sniping. Summit likes to blame his losses on everyone/everything but himself.
I stopped watching when he died yesterday and blamed it on some non-existent lag and then called the game terrible.