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[philz]

We begin here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nd-answers-from-the-schools-first-black-dean/

Hundreds of students surrounded the first black dean of Yale College on the university’s quad here Thursday, demanding a public response to recent events that have stoked anguished debates about the treatment of racial minorities on this Ivy League campus.

A sophomore standing near the center of the circle of more than 300 students asked the dean, Jonathan Holloway, if he would call on his personal experiences in addressing student demands for additional black faculty, racial sensitivity training for freshmen and the dismissal of administrators viewed as racially inattentive.

“As a black man, you know where we come from,” said Ron Tricoche, of New York. “You need to act, whether it’s with Yale or without Yale. We need you.”

Staring back at the student, Holloway said softly: “I will.”

When Holloway appeared, students surrounded him, chanting: “Where’s our e-mail?”

They aimed to force Holloway to explain why he had not written to the college community acknowledging allegations that the Yale chapter of Sigma Alpha Epsilon had turned away black women from a fraternity party on Friday night, with one brother saying, according to an eyewitness, that only “white girls” were welcome. The fraternity’s president has denied the claims.

They also condemned an e-mail from the associate master of Silliman College, one of Yale’s 12 undergraduate residential communities, to Silliman residents that argued that people should not be offended by insensitive Halloween costumes and should instead tolerate them and talk about them. That message came in response to a plea from Yale officials that the university community “take the time to consider their costumes and the impact it may have,” citing possible outfits including “feathered headdresses, turbans, wearing ‘war paint’ or modifying skin tone or wearing blackface or redface.”

"I don’t, actually, trust myself to foist my Halloweenish standards and motives on others. I can’t defend them anymore than you could defend yours,” wrote Christakis, a lecturer at the Yale Child Study Center and the wife of Nicholas Christakis, a sociologist and physician and the master of Silliman College. “Nicholas says, if you don’t like a costume someone is wearing, look away, or tell them you are offended. Talk to each other. Free speech and the ability to tolerate offence are the hallmarks of a free and open society.”

Students at Thursday’s protest said the e-mail ignored the way people of color experience such insensitive characterizations, and they recounted how students have faced threats of physical violence when they have questioned their classmates’ costume choices.

Footage of a campus confrontation between Christakis and students on the Yale Campus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0

 Moderator's note: I really recommend you read the entire article. It's a complex situation involving multiple issues and protests.

 

[takriel]

When will they learn? Vertical is never the way to go!

 

[CarpeDeezNutz]

That's the accurate title for the video that was posted and locked. Why did you delete OP?




Edit: there we go.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

The situation could have been handled a bit better than yelling profanities and screaming at the guy.

 

[SuperBanana]

What a disrespectful arsehole. If she thinks she can talk to people like that and demand a "safe space" 24/7 the real world will eat her up. All this over a Halloween costume as well?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Was this actually over a costume, or was that just the example included in the "stop whining" email?

Don't skimp on the info mang

 

[CoolOff]

Uh, what's the background here?

 

[Xero]

Was this actually over a costume, or was that just the example included in the "stop whining" email?

Don't skimp on the info mang

yeah i had to click the article link in the youtube video to figure out what the fuck it was about.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Was this actually over a costume, or was that just the example included in the "stop whining" email?

Don't skimp on the info mang

Working on it.

So the Dean, through the Intercultural committee, Sent an email to the undergraduate student body. In this email it basically says to be aware of what you dress as and that it might offend some. So this is the letter from the dean. It's a short letter compared to the response.

So then comes the respondant, Erika, who is the associate master of Silliman College(Her husban is the uh, master of silliman college), who sent out an email in response to that, alleging that even though the Dean made a recommendation, that it's tone and the fact that it was signed by the 13 committee members made it seem like formal policy.

I don’t wish to trivialize genuine concerns about cultural and personal representation, and other challenges to our lived experience in a plural community. I know that many decent people have proposed guidelines on Halloween costumes from a spirit of avoiding hurt and offense. I laud those goals, in theory, as most of us do. But in practice, I wonder if we should reflect more transparently, as a community, on the consequences of an institutional (which is to say: bureaucratic and administrative) exercise of implied control over college students.

And she had some concerns about policing a students costume can stifle imagination-

Is there no room anymore for a child or young person to be a little bit obnoxious… a little bit inappropriate or provocative or, yes, offensive? American universities were once a safe space not only for maturation but also for a certain regressive, or even transgressive, experience; increasingly, it seems, they have become places of censure and prohibition.

So alotta students got mad. She and her husband invited students to an open forum, but alot of people apparently rejected?(Apparently around 700 people were invited to the open forum). So then the next day there was a meeting by students(I believe?) over the issue, and the husband went to meet the protesters where this video was recorded.

I got my information from this site, but it seems one sided...but it had a boon of information.

Also-There were no Mulan costumes involved.

And the student saying this uh, doesn't make me side with her. College isn't a 'home'.

“Who the fuck hired you?” she asked, arguing that Christakis should “step down” because being master is “not about creating an intellectual space,” but rather “creating a home.”

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

>>>>> HERE IS THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE IF YOU ARE CONFUSED <<<<<

 

[CoolOff]

I love that the previous thread got locked because of a confusing OP, and then we get this for a second thread. :lol

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Why are other people piecing together a half-decent thread lol

 

[jurgen]

"It is not about creating an intellectual space! It is not! Do you understand that? It’s about creating a home here! You are not doing that. You’re going against that.”

This is the quote that made me tap out. What's the point of college?

 

[Alcotholic]

This whole thing seems so pointless. They really got their panties in a bunch for nothing.

 

[ZeroX03]

And the student saying this uh, doesn't make me side with her. College isn't a 'home'.

I'm still piecing this all together, and while her behavior is certainly not winning her any points, my understanding is he's in charge of a dorm? I absolutely agree with the notion that in the classroom we shouldn't be stifling free speech or discussion, but is there an argument that it shouldn't apply as much to dorms? It's a living space so I mean it's kind of a home.

I don't know, this whole thing confuses me. I never lived on campus, I just assumed that dorms were sort of their own separate thing. I have no clue what I'm talking about.

 

[A Link to the Past]

While the tone was frustrating at first, the article linked makes it seem like it was more than an issue about Halloween costumes:

They aimed to force Holloway to explain why he had not written to the college community acknowledging allegations that the Yale chapter of Sigma Alpha Epsilon had turned away black women from a fraternity party on Friday night, with one brother saying, according to an eyewitness, that only “white girls” were welcome. The fraternity’s president has denied the claims.

Should we go for thread number three with actual, detailed information and not just a video that only offers a partial explanation?

 

[philz]

Was this actually over a costume, or was that just the example included in the "stop whining" email?

Don't skimp on the info mang

Apologize for being terse, but the last thread got closed for being too confusing. I'm assuming that this is because I presented multiple links and a bulleted timeline of key events?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

While the tone was frustrating at first, the article linked makes it seem like it was more than an issue about Halloween costumes:



Should we go for thread number three with actual, detailed information and not just a video that only offers a partial explanation?

That seems to be another issue?

If the timeline is correct-
Dean sends out letter saying for everyone to watch themselves.
The associate lady sends out letter saying that kids should be able to dress up.
~~~
Then the frat party happens and a black girl gets denied. This seems to be an issue of a white frat denying a black girl to the party, which has nothing to do with the 2 letters before that(?)

The video however is about the letter, and the frat party isn't mentioned in the video, instead it's the guy defending his wifes email.

I'm still piecing this all together, and while her behavior is certainly not winning her any points, my understanding is he's in charge of a dorm? I absolutely agree with the notion that in the classroom we shouldn't be stifling free speech or discussion, but is there an argument that it shouldn't apply as much to dorms? It's a living space so I mean it's kind of a home.

I don't know, this whole thing confuses me. I never lived on campus, I just assumed that dorms were sort of their own separate thing. I have no clue what I'm talking about.

Is that what a master is? fucking confusing terminology, but it'd be a first I heard a dorm head called 'master' ._.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Apologize for being terse, but the last thread got closed for being too confusing. I'm assuming that this is because I presented multiple links and a bulleted timeline of key events?

It was hard to tell what the thread actually wanted to focus on.

 

[A Link to the Past]

That seems to be another issue?

If the timeline is correct-
Dean sends out letter saying for everyone to watch themselves.
The associate lady sends out letter saying that kids should be able to dress up.
~~~
Then the frat party happens and a black girl gets denied. This seems to be an issue of a white frat denying a black girl to the party, which has nothing to do with the 2 letters before that(?)

The video however is about the letter, and the frat party isn't mentioned in the video, instead it's the guy defending his wifes email.



Is that what a master is? fucking confusing terminology, but it'd be a first I heard a dorm head called 'master' ._.

This is all just very confusing. So was the protest not about the frat thing, or was it just an example given of tension that was going on?

 

[philz]

It was hard to tell what the thread actually wanted to focus on.

So there was a topic in which there was not one specific issue to debate? Thank you.

 

[ZeroX03]

Is that what a master is? fucking confusing terminology, but it'd be a first I heard a dorm head called 'master' ._.

His title is Master of Silliman College and the website for Silliman College seems to be for a group of dorms or something similar? Maybe Yale likes fancy titles.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

This is all just very confusing. So was the protest not about the frat thing, or was it just an example given of tension that was going on?

The protest was about the letter sent by the uh, wife and husband since the husband was the one being addressed in the video.

However, there was a separate issue regarding the frat, and the students calling out the dean about it.

The washington post article seems to be using both issues in order to talk about the racial tension, as quoted in the Washington Post article-

They also condemned an e-mail from the associate master of Silliman College, one of Yale&#8217;s 12 undergraduate residential communities, to Silliman residents that argued that people should not be offended by insensitive Halloween costumes and should instead tolerate them and talk about them. That message came in response to a plea from Yale officials that the university community &#8220;take the time to consider their costumes and the impact it may have,&#8221; citing possible outfits including &#8220;feathered headdresses, turbans, wearing &#8216;war paint&#8217; or modifying skin tone or wearing blackface or redface.&#8221;

"They Also" being the operative phrase to include the the email incident along with the frat incident. Doing a search of the frat, I couldn't actually find where the frat is located so I dunno if they were in the same network as the Silliman college(Unless the dorm lead of Silliman college sent an email to the WHOLE student body which...is that possible? From a dorm lead at one of the dorm colleges?)
~~~

His title is Master of Silliman College and the website for Silliman College seems to be for a dorm or something similar? Maybe Yale likes fancy titles.

I see. That's a stupid title. Goddamn. 'Master' my ass. And yeah, it seems to be a...community thing? So the master in this set of dorms disagreed with the dean(Who maybe sent his letter to the whole of Yale?)

 

[Trojita]

What does being racially inattentive entail?

 

[Cocaloch]

My undergrad institution also called the people in charge of dorms masters. I didn't realize it was uncommon.

 

[Foffy]

This is the quote that made me tap out. What's the point of college?

Not to question things, apparently.

How is it safe when the point of college is to question norms and social memes? You almost guarantee to expose conflict and suffering in the quest for truth about reality in a society.

 

[Ri'Orius]

This is the quote that made me tap out. What's the point of college?

Yale University is a place of learning and education. It contains, in addition to the academic departments and whatnot, twelve colleges which serve as residential and social hubs for the students. Kinda like the Houses in Harry Potter. And this guy was speaking not as their Transfiguration professor, but as their Head of House.

And yeah, I could see the argument that in such a context making students feel safe and welcome in their community is more important than academic and intellectual pursuits in said community. It's tricky: since so many undergrads live on campus, their academic and personal lives are thoroughly entangled. Striking the right balance is legitimately tricky. I'm still on the guy's side, but I can see where the students are coming from.

 

[devilhawk]

So there were no actual racist costumes? Just an email arguing hypothetically for racist costumes in response to another email?

 

[Henkka]

So uhh that footage is quite something. Over offensive Halloween costumes? So glad there's nothing like this at my school.

Edit: Also, wow at some student yelling "RETWEET!" in response to the female student's ranting. Is this the future leadership of the US?

 

[Messofanego]

Immediately reminded of Dear White People.

 

[Blackstarhat]

safe spaces ?

 

[nel e nel]

This is all just very confusing. So was the protest not about the frat thing, or was it just an example given of tension that was going on?

The protest is about ALL of these things taken together, and how it can create - in some people's eyes - a hostile environment to people of color.

You got white administrators essentially using the "don't be offended" argument to justify racially insensitive costumes
A lack of diversity in the faculty
Debates over the use of the word "master" for residential halls (I mean, if you were black would you really want to live in the "masters house"?)
A white frat allegedly denying black ladies admittance to a party
An apparent lack of effort by the black dean to address these issues publicly

Yes,the ability to tolerate offense is a hallmark of a free and open society, but so is voicing offense and taking criticism and self reflecting on that.

 

[Kathian]

They don't actually seem to be demanding anything so their behaviour seems greatly removed from their actions.

 

[A Link to the Past]

The protest is about ALL of these things taken together, and how it can create - in some people's eyes - a hostile environment to people of color.

You got white administrators essentially using the "don't be offended" argument to justify racially insensitive costumes
A lack of diversity in the faculty
Debates over the use of the word "master" for residential halls (I mean, if you were black would you really want to live in the "masters house"?)
A white frat allegedly denying black ladies admittance to a party
An apparent lack of effort by the black dean to address these issues publicly

Yes,the ability to tolerate offense is a hallmark of a free and open society, but so is voicing offense and taking criticism and self reflecting on that.

I see. Thank you for the reply

 

[Shai-Tan]

You got white administrators essentially using the "don't be offended" argument to justify racially insensitive costumes

The other perspective is they were simply saying they wouldn't ban costumes and students were expected to use standards of good taste, whereas this group of students was angry that they wouldn't legislate it i.e. make everyone conform to their standards and the "master" suggested there is a gray area that people should learn to navigate

 

[Coroner]

Embarrassing.

 

[nel e nel]

The other perspective is they were simply saying they wouldn't ban costumes and students were expected to use standards of good taste, whereas this group of students was angry that they wouldn't legislate it i.e. make everyone conform to their standards and the "master" suggested there is a gray area that people should learn to navigate

Except that's not at all what the article was about, nor this protest.

 

[Shai-Tan]

Except that's not at all what the article was about, nor this protest.

That's my reading of what the "master" wrote in the email. Did you read it? How is it not what it is about? That's also the content of the discussion in the video (the husband of the "master" saying he is defending free expression)

 

[nel e nel]

That's my reading of what the "master" wrote in the email. Did you read it? How is it not what it is about? That's also the content of the discussion in the video (the husband of the "master" saying he is defending free expression)

I read the Washington Post article that was linked in the OP which talks about several incidents which I already summarized upthread. This is not about an isolated occurrence, but a general atmosphere of inhospitality at Yale, and a perceived lack of action by the black dean.

People keep trying to steer this conversation away from the systemic issues it's trying to address and instead focusing on one email and making it about 'freedom of expression' in Halloween costumes.

 

[WayneMorse]

I read the Washington Post article that was linked in the OP which talks about several incidents which I already summarized upthread. This is not about an isolated occurrence, but a general atmosphere of inhospitality at Yale, and a perceived lack of action by the black dean.

People keep trying to steer this conversation away from the systemic issues it's trying to address and instead focusing on one email and making it about 'freedom of expression' in Halloween costumes.

Also Yale has a college, Calhoun College, named after one of the major reasons slavery persisted in the states, John C. Calhoun.

And before people attack me and say we shouldn't "whitewash" history by getting rid of his name on the college. No one is denying he existed, but it doesn't mean they should honor him.

I heard the same thing after reading about Democrats getting rid of the name "Jefferson-Jackson" for their annual dinners, what's with white people and refusing to acknowledge the system of oppression their entire society was built on?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

People really don't want to let go of blackface. Time honored tradition and all that.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Also Yale has a college, Calhoun College, named after one of the major reasons slavery persisted in the states, John C. Calhoun.

And before people attack me and say we shouldn't "whitewash" history by getting rid of his name on the college. No one is denying he existed, but it doesn't mean they should honor him.

I heard the same thing after reading about Democrats getting rid of the name "Jefferson-Jackson" for their annual dinners, what's with white people and refusing to acknowledge the system of oppression their entire society was built on?

I think it's more that they don't think the oppression was the defining feature nor did the oppression negate the good.

Re: Calhoun, I think that it's more that that's what the building has been called for so many years, and renaming it feels like sundering future generations from that tradition.

 

[anaron]

Girl is such an entitled little shit. Maybe act like a fucking grown up instead of stunting your cause by behaving like a 13 year old.

This is such a frightening display of modern Ivy League student behaviour.

eta: here's another article that better covers the story

https://www.thefire.org/yale-students-demand-resignations-from-faculty-members-over-halloween-email/

 

[Mr. X]

Blackface: it's not racist, it's culture and heritage

Welp, looks like we're also using that logic to defend places named after pro-slavery people. Maybe they can name a future one after John Wilks Booth.

 

[Always-honest]

Such a struggle... So much energy that could have been used for teaching, learning, and making eachoter stronger human beings.
Horrible to read it's still so bad.

Also, i kinda feel some people are not taking their responisbilty there. Leaving things all up to the students certainly sounds like that.
Shit needs to change. Fast.

 

[dripdripsplash]

This 'safe space' idea is some bullshit.

It's a fucking university, you're there to get challenged intellectually.

No, blackface is not allright. behaviour shown in the video is unacceptable for a grown up.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I can entirely understand why people would get upset by the "I believe in free speech" comment in the context of offensive imagery on campus. What people will be offended by is often operating on a sliding scale. Clearly, the person who made that comment has a relatively high threshold with respect to what kind of speech she may find offensive. On the other hand, I have to imagine that that threshold ends eventually, and at some point, offensive speech or imagery stops being free speech (to her). At that point it becomes a question of where you draw the line for what speech is offensive. One could argue that hanging a noose on a tree is a form of expression, but should this be covered? What if someone was to dress as, for instance, a Nazi officer or a hanged slave? I really think it's important to understand the extent of her belief in free expression in this context, because I think people would be rather mortified to see those costumes, free speech or not.

This 'safe space' idea is some bullshit.

It's a fucking university, you're there to get challenged intellectually.

No, blackface is not allright. behaviour shown in the video is unacceptable for a grown up.

Costumes aren't challenging people intellectually.

 

[HarryKS]

Saw this a while ago.

Cowardly to run away at the end. What was up with that?

 

[Valhelm]

This 'safe space' idea is some bullshit.

It's a fucking university, you're there to get challenged intellectually.

No, blackface is not allright. behaviour shown in the video is unacceptable for a grown up.

People go to universities to learn. This may or may not mean people are challenged. I don't think universities are obligated to be safe spaces for all of their students, but it's clear that black students are often treated poorly at Ivy League schools. Yale and Harvard purport themselves to be the best of the best -- not only academically, but also socially -- yet their students are acting as boorish as frat boys at Alabama State.

 

[Ivan 3414]

A sophomore standing near the center of the circle of more than 300 students asked the dean, Jonathan Holloway, if he would call on his personal experiences in addressing student demands for additional black faculty, racial sensitivity training for freshmen and the dismissal of administrators viewed as racially inattentive.

Dear White People