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[kunonabi]

I'm talking about gaming in general, and in that regard Metal Gear has Castlevania beat. Even if the latter is more associated with Nintendo, the former has probably made a bigger impact in gaming history, and I'd say that's what matters.

I don't know anything about Goemon ranking high on polls, and it really doesn't matter. He is nowhere near the level of Sonic, Ryu, Pac-Man and even Snake. Also, I don't think Bomberman is as huge a character as people think he is. He was just the mascot of a minor (and defunct) game company back in the 90s, and I can't really think of what makes him such a heavy hitter like the other third parties in Smash. I'm pretty sure games like Mario Kart had it beat in terms of being "a cornerstone of local multiplayer".

So should we just add Master Chief then?

 

[Green Mamba]

So should we just add Master Chief then?

Master Chief was in Smash before?

 

[Boss Doggie]

They made a FMV model of Wolf in Melee that you see for a split-second. Sakurai stated they made Wolf because he was built off of a similar framework as Fox.

EDIT: And holy shit, stop with the Miku garbage.

Yeah I thought the Goomy pic would stop them.

Also I find it hilarious in hindsight. Wolf ended up looking quite different, with the way Sakurai said that quote you'd think they'd just carry over an old design. Makes me wonder if part of Brawl Wolf's design was in Melee intro. The open vest/black undershirt with bling stuff.

If Wolf makes it back, I hope he does with a new outfit that doesn't look like something out of a 80's sci-fi movie.

But it's perfect for him! He's a space leather cowboy!

 

[PSqueak]

It sounds legit... until you realize Bomberman also belongs to Konami.

Maybe Konami had a deal with them to include a rep, but sakurai refused it to be Snake because KONAMI! and they settled on Bomberman?

 

[MaximumSpider]

Where were you when Agumon was confirmed for Super Smash Bros!?

 

[Ivan 3414]

He was easier to implement because they are more familiar with Wolf's look. Remember they already did him in Melee. In fact, if you notice, that actually freed them enough time that they designed him quite differently in looks

Wolf's depiction in Melee has nothing to do with it; Sakurai wasn't referring to his visual design.

Remember, they

Spoiler

supposedly

build every character model from scratch for each game. Regardless of Wolf's moveset, his model, like Falco's, was made by literally using Fox's model as a base. Note that they share several animations, like their Super Mushroom growing animation. And at the beginning of Wolf's neutral stance in Brawl, he very briefly stands in Fox's neutral stance before moving into a more feral position. You can see something similar with Roy in SSB4.

Sakurai said Wolf only took 70% effort because 30% was already grabbed from Fox.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Wolf's depiction in Melee has nothing to do with it; Sakurai wasn't referring to his visual design.

Remember, they build every character model from scratch for each game. Regardless of Wolf's moveset, his model, like Falco's, was made by literally using Fox's model as a base. Note that they share several animations, like their Super Mushroom growing animation. And at the beginning of Wolf's neutral stance in Brawl, he very briefly stands in Fox's neutral stance before moving into a more feral position. You can see something similar with Roy in SSB4.

Sakurai said Wolf only took 70% effort because 30% was already grabbed from Fox.

That wasn't stated in the interview at all. The closest you could imply is that he follows an archetype, but otherwise that is not mentioned in it at all. In fact, the whole thing makes it sound like Wolf wouldn't have been in if he wasn't popular to begin with.

And I know his miscellaneous animation is recycled, but I don't heed it since a lot of characters do that (Jiggs and Falcon still kept them iirc). And I know his model is based on Fox since you can see it in their build and leftover animation for the victory clap, and that one can probably be implied back from Melee because he was planned as a Fox clone back then.

I just feel like using that argument as "Wolf is a clone lol" is terrible, even with those thrown percentage.

 

[Green Mamba]

Yeah I thought the Goomy pic would stop them.

Also I find it hilarious in hindsight. Wolf ended up looking quite different, with the way Sakurai said that quote you'd think they'd just carry over an old design. Makes me wonder if part of Brawl Wolf's design was in Melee intro. The open vest/black undershirt with bling stuff.

1) I was talking to you about that Miku shit. Nobody cares.

2) Sakurai wasn't talking about the Melee FMV model. He was talking about Brawl. They wouldn't be saying that 30% of the work was already done if they only had a really rough early base of his visual design. He was talking about the character period.

EDIT: Wolf was never planned as a clone in Melee, that is an old, unsubstantiated rumor.

 

[Boss Doggie]

And I did agree that he has Fox leftovers (see my post), I just feel like it wouldn't justify that poster's attempt to downplay the character.

This isn't "character has different stats so he will play differently, but still is a clone" type of differentiation, this is "character has a different moveset altogether" type of differentiation.

And I dunno, if people don't care they wouldn't insist so much.

 

[Nightbird]

Its a reboot.

Wait, wasn't Star Fox 64 already a reboot ofthe original game?

 

[Kinsei]

Wait, wasn't Star Fox 64 already a reboot ofthe original game?

Yes. Zero is another reboot.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Melee intro Wolf is just a recolored Fox.

Remember, they

Spoiler

supposedly

build every character model from scratch for each game.

No they don't, and it's plainly obvious they don't from characters like Lucas, Ganondorf, and Mario. Sakurai's never even said they did at all, the quote about starting from scratch was specifically referring to balance, and he's outright said he ported Brawl assets for Smash 4.

According to translations, Sakurai explains part of the development process for a Smash game is to migrate data from the older games, enabling their models and animations to be developed accurately. But as Melee’s data is so aged, the team would essentially have to build those past characters from scratch, extending the development process.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Yes. Zero is another reboot.

Next game will literally just be called "Star Fox?"

 

[Boss Doggie]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Melee intro Wolf is just a recolored Fox.

He is actually lol

Next game will literally just be called "Star Fox?"

Gonna milk dat 64 money on this strange idea that 64 is the only good game

 

[SalvaPot]

Wait, wasn't Star Fox 64 already a reboot ofthe original game?

Yeeeeep. Star Fox has been rebooted 2 times now.

 

[SalvaPot]

Maybe Konami had a deal with them to include a rep, but sakurai refused it to be Snake because KONAMI! and they settled on Bomberman?

Why would Konami settle? They could be like "Well fuck you then" and just not release either. Konami has nothing to win if they let Bomberman in smash unless they are planning on making Pachinko Bomberman. If anything having both Bomberman and Snake makes more sense than having just Bomberman.

Edit: Sorry for the double post, Mafia GAF has me spoiled.

 

[Hero Prinny]

No they don't, and it's plainly obvious they don't from characters like Lucas, Ganondorf, and Mario. Sakurai's never even said they did at all, the quote about starting from scratch was specifically referring to balance, and he's outright said he ported Brawl assets for Smash 4.

sakurai could have even said that they started from scratch and you could tell he'd be lying cause like you said, there are characters that are 1:1 to their brawl counterpart.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Literally why should anyone care about whether a character is more related to Sony than Nintendo

The argument didn't hold up nine years ago and it still doesn't hold up with Ryu's inclusion now. Nintendo fans treating Smash Bros. Like the Mecca of video games is ridiculous.

 

[Nightbird]

Yes. Zero is another reboot.

Yeeeeep. Star Fox has been rebooted 2 times now.

Wow, that sounds impressive. But not in a good way.

I know nothing about Star Fox, so i'd rather ask the experts here: was another reboot really needed?

 

[Neoxon]

If Wolf makes it back, I hope he does with a new outfit that doesn't look like something out of a 80's sci-fi movie.

Judging by Fox & Falco's designs, they're likely gonna stick with his Brawl look (using his SF643D voice actor).

 

[Pizza]

Wow, that sounds impressive. But not in a good way.

I know nothing about Star Fox, so i'd rather ask the experts here: was another reboot really needed?

Not like this no. if they wanted to have platinum write the story of an hd starfox 64 remake with super tight controls and great gameplay then fuck yes! Erase starfox adventures plz. I'd love to see platinum's writers do starfox.


Instead we have platinum apparently doing grunt work for the starfox game with splatoon controls that miyamoto feels like making. Which blows.

 

[Berordn]

I know nothing about Star Fox, so i'd rather ask the experts here: was another reboot really needed?

Kind of. Command was a trainwreck of multiple fanservicey endings and attempting to move forward from there would be nightmarishly crazy.

They probably could've done an interquel or just ignored it, but the series hasn't really set the world on fire whenever they've deviated from the mold of the original game.

 

[Kinsei]

Wow, that sounds impressive. But not in a good way.

I know nothing about Star Fox, so i'd rather ask the experts here: was another reboot really needed?

A lot of people hated Krystal so they might use this reboot as an excuse to get rid of her. Star Fox doesn't really have much story so there wasn't a need for the first reboot let alone a second one.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Literally why should anyone care about whether a character is more related to Sony than Nintendo

The argument didn't hold up nine years ago and it still doesn't hold up with Ryu's inclusion now. Nintendo fans treating Smash Bros. Like the Mecca of video games is ridiculous.

Ryu has historical relevance since SFII was the best selling SNES third party game. Snake has had Nintendo games, but none of them were very significant

 

[Nightbird]

Not like this no. if they wanted to have platinum write the story of an hd starfox 64 remake with super tight controls and great gameplay then fuck yes! Erase starfox adventures plz. I'd love to see platinum's writers do starfox.


Instead we have platinum apparently doing grunt work for the starfox game with splatoon controls that miyamoto feels like making. Which blows.

Kind of. Command was a trainwreck of multiple fanservicey endings and attempting to move forward from there would be nightmarishly crazy.

They probably could've done an interquel or just ignored it, but the series hasn't really set the world on fire whenever they've deviated from the mold of the original game.

A lot of people hated Krystal so they might use this reboot as an excuse to get rid of her. Star Fox doesn't really have much story so there wasn't a need for the first reboot let alone a second one.

So it's good to get rid of errors of the sequels that came after the first reboot, but wasn't something the fans really asked for.

Well, then we have just to wait and see what Nintendo is planning then.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Camjo-Z]

I know nothing about Star Fox, so i'd rather ask the experts here: was another reboot really needed?

They could have picked up after the least awful ending from Command where the only real change is that Peppy is the Cornerian Army general and Dash becomes Andross 2.0, but suffice to say I don't think anyone is disappointed that they chose not to.

 

[Ivan 3414]

That wasn't stated in the interview at all. The closest you could imply is that he follows an archetype, but otherwise that is not mentioned in it at all. In fact, the whole thing makes it sound like Wolf wouldn't have been in if he wasn't popular to begin with.

And I know his miscellaneous animation is recycled, but I don't heed it since a lot of characters do that (Jiggs and Falcon still kept them iirc). And I know his model is based on Fox since you can see it in their build and leftover animation for the victory clap, and that one can probably be implied back from Melee because he was planned as a Fox clone back then.

I just feel like using that argument as "Wolf is a clone lol" is terrible, even with those thrown percentage.

My fault, I wasn't arguing that Wolf was a clone, I kind of read your post and responded to that. Didn't realize in context of the discussion you were referring to Wolf's moveset. I wasn't focused on that in my post.

Yes, Wolf was chosen because of his popularity, but he still wouldn't have made it if work wasn't already done for him via Fox. Again, I'm not sure why you bring up Melee. That 70%/30% is definitely referring to model work, which doesn't pull from Melee since every character was remade going into Brawl. Note that Sakurai outright said they didn't have the "technical modeling knowledge" to build Krystal, so they'd have to make a brand new character instead to include her. That modeling knowledge could be used to make Wolf and save development time, so they did.

Now, I don't claim to be a developer and Sakurai's words don't explicitly detail the development process, but I don't see how that interview snippet does not refer to model work.

Also I'm not sure what animations Jiggs and Falcon share at this point outside of Falcon's clone, would appreciate any examples you might have though.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I kinda miffed that they didn't start right off from Assault. It was a nice place start, too bad Command existed.

No they don't, and it's plainly obvious they don't from characters like Lucas, Ganondorf, and Mario. Sakurai's never even said they did at all, the quote about starting from scratch was specifically referring to balance, and he's outright said he ported Brawl assets for Smash 4.

I thought he was referring 3DS enemies being ported, not Brawl.

 

[Reverend Funk]

Come on Winnie the Pooh!

 

[Boss Doggie]

My fault, I wasn't arguing that Wolf was a clone, I kind of read your post and responded to that. Didn't realize in context of the discussion you were referring to Wolf's moveset. I wasn't focused on that in my post.

Yes, Wolf was chosen because of his popularity, but he still wouldn't have made it if work wasn't already done for him via Fox. Again, I'm not sure why you bring up Melee. That 70%/30% is definitely referring to model work, which doesn't pull from Melee since every character was remade going into Brawl. Note that Sakurai outright said they didn't have the "technical modeling knowledge" to build Krystal, so they'd have to make a brand new character instead to include her. That modeling knowledge could be used to make Wolf and save development time, so they did.

Now, I don't claim to be a developer and Sakurai's words don't explicitly detail the development process, but I don't see how that interview snippet does not refer to model work.

Also I'm not sure what animations Jiggs and Falcon share at this point outside of Falcon's clone, would appreciate any examples you might have though.

Yeah I agree with him being easy to work with has plus in him getting in popularity aside, but still they managed to make him work out as his own character. So props to them. It's really surprising when you compare him to Lucina or Dark Pit in particular.

Jiggs and Falcon were using Kirby and Samus's models in 64. Some of that stuff are still carried over to this day. Like I think they share the same wake ups, certain throws, and certain normals.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I thought he was referring 3DS enemies being ported, not Brawl.

The article is clearly talking about porting characters from Melee. I think there was one about porting stages from 64 and Melee as well, where he basically said the same thing, that they always start the next Smash by porting the old one's assets.

 

[twothunder]

Come on Winnie the Pooh!

Only if we also get Christopher Robin based on Winnie The Pooh's Home Run Derby

 

[Livingskeletons]

They need all three slots just to fit Ridley.

 

[Boss Doggie]

The article is clearly talking about porting characters from Melee. I think there was one about porting stages from 64 and Melee as well, where he basically said the same thing, that they always start the next Smash by porting the old one's assets.

Ah right, I thought you were talking about the actual fighters themselves.

 

[PSqueak]

Wow, that sounds impressive. But not in a good way.

I know nothing about Star Fox, so i'd rather ask the experts here: was another reboot really needed?

Well, depends who you ask, but a lot of people hated the directions the last game (Star Fox command) took the story with its multiple endings.

Also of note, some of the endings on command were meant to be the "end" of star fox (although some others definitely set up for more), so i guess if you truly take those endings as "the end" of the whole SF story, a reboot makes a bit of sense.

 

[Arkeband]

Come on Winnie the Pooh!

DAE vote for DeeDee Pickles for SM4SH?!

 

[ShadowFox08]

Roy & Ryu's data were in Mewtwo's update & came out in the following update. If this is any indication, we may see these 3 characters as soon as the next update. However, since we just got an update, I wouldn't expect the next one until sometime in November.

I'm guessing around the same time Wii U verison of smash comes out, which was the 21st. This 21st of Nov will be on Sat though.

 

[Ivan 3414]

No they don't, and it's plainly obvious they don't from characters like Lucas, Ganondorf, and Mario. Sakurai's never even said they did at all, the quote about starting from scratch was specifically referring to balance, and he's outright said he ported Brawl assets for Smash 4.

So I looked up that quote:

The most important thing is that the game have breadth and depth, since we would like them to be popular with both novices and hardcore gamers. We think that people who aren’t so good at turning the tables and coming back from behind can still get enjoyment out of the [new] game, even if they turn off items and Smash Balls.

Although the pace of the game had to be lowered compared to Melee in order to achieve this balance, we have managed to keep the dynamism because we didn’t have to gear towards novice players like we did with Brawl. In fact, we recreated all characters almost from scratch. Also, I feel on a personal level that this game is more interesting than the three previous games in the series.

The "balance" referred to here is talking about balance between novice and advanced players, not character balance. So saying "recreated" all characters seems like a mistranslation, or Sakurai misspoke. "Rebalanced" would be a better and much more clear word. But regardless, you're right, I see.

That being said, Wolf was built from Fox's Brawl model. His appearance in an FMV from Melee has nothing to do with the model work in Brawl.

Unless the argument is that they developed Wolf in Melee and cut him, only to add that work to Brawl, which wouldn't be likely since it seems that Wolf's inclusion never left the planning stage.

 

[Markoman]

Give me Chibi Goku!!!!!!

 

[Oddish1]

Wow, that sounds impressive. But not in a good way.

I know nothing about Star Fox, so i'd rather ask the experts here: was another reboot really needed?

For what it's worth Nintendo have very deliberately avoided calling it a reboot, but a "reimagining". Depending on how seriously you take that it could mean that it's just a one-off experiment and they'll still continue the regular series.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Guilmon
Terriermon (Lopmon alt)
Renamon

You heard it here first.

 

[Boss Doggie]

What about Lightning? I guess Lightning Returns wouldn't work in Smash since she never was there.

 

[Not75Drops]

Voted for Cranky Kong just for the hell of it but it would be actually cool to see him in. Everyone I've wanted was included by Brawl so I don't really care who gets in at this point. I'll just not buy the character if I don't like them.

 

[Neoxon]

I'm guessing around the same time Wii U verison of smash comes out, which was the 21st. This 21st of Nov will be on Sat though.

That would make sense. Maybe a week before to leave room for Mario Tennis, but Mario Tennis isn't exactly gonna set the world on fire in terms of sales.

 

[Ozium]

Absolutely fucking disgusted that I see Neoxon, on multiple occasions, state that Wolf is "the only potential returning character without legal/gameplay issues (except Squirtle and Ivysaur)"

PICHU MOTHERFUCKERS

HE WILL RETURN

edit: also remove Dedenne from the pokeballs and make him a full fledged character please daddy sakurai all over my face

 

[Neoxon]

Absolutely fucking disgusted that I see Neoxon, on multiple occasions, state that Wolf is "the only potential returning character without legal/gameplay issues (except Squirtle and Ivysaur)"

PICHU MOTHERFUCKERS

HE WILL RETURN

I said "somewhat unique", something that doesn't apply to Pichu.

 

[Ozium]

I said "somewhat unique", something that doesn't apply to Pichu.

pichu is as different from pikachu as wolf is from fox

 

[Neoxon]

pichu is as different from pikachu as wolf is from fox

Not really, Wolf's moves are much more different compared to Fox than Pichu was to Pikachu. The only difference that Pichu had was that his attacks do damage to himself.

 

[Ozium]

Not really, Wolf's moves are much more different compared to Fox than Pichu was to Pikachu. The only difference that Pichu had was that his attacks do damage to himself.

but when Pichu returns Sakurai will alter him like he did with Roy and Ike

 

[Neoxon]

but when Pichu returns Sakurai will alter him like he did with Roy and Ike

Ike was already his own beast & didn't need too much altering.