Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Someone tell them to sit down and shut up.... idiots
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Some Lunatics Petition White House for Secession
- Thread starter ChiTownBuffalo
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Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
vox populi, vox dei
speculawyer
Member
Unknown Soldier
Member
Um, because they did once before? Why do you think the American Civil War was fought?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
To prove that you CAN'T secede from the Union?
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Joining Canada would be an improvement for the northeast.
CrunchyFrog
Member
It's crazy how polar opposite the rest of this state is compared to the NO Metro area. I've been a big proponent of barbed wire fencing for years, especially so if we can include the West Bank in that category. There's a reason the CCC tolls are only when LEAVING the West Bank (though they did get rid of it in that last poll didn't they?).
Civil War apologists sadly still exist, film at eleven.
Hmm. Louisiana has a rather significant share of energy infrastructure, and one of the largest ports in the world. In a secession scenario, I'd love for our area to be the Union States' southern island outpost/adult playground/energy & shipping hub.
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And yes, there are parts of New Orleans that are a bit on the gritty side. But there are some parts of the city that are downright lovely, like few other places on this continent. I'll take this city's landscape and architecture over the soulless, ticky-tacky, "Hanna-Barbera looping background" that most of the rest of the country's built landscape resembles. (edit: seriously. Most of this country's built landscape is F-U-G-L-Y.)
Also this. Someone clearly hasn't taken a stroll down St. Charles or seen the Garden District. Newsflash people: Bourbon Street is a shithole tourist trap that should be avoided at all costs for the good of humanity. Go down Frenchman St. instead, you'll thank me later.
Unknown Soldier
Member
No. The American Civil War was fought after the 11 states seceded from the Union to form the Confederacy. It was fought to reunify the country, after it had been separated. The secession was successful. If it wasn't, there wouldn't have needed to be a war in the first place. In that sense, the Civil War didn't prove you couldn't secede from the Union, but it did prove that the Union was willing to fight to bring you back.
Today, if a state actually managed to muster a vote of it's entire populace for secession, the Union would probably not fight another Civil War to reunify the country. Not when the Union and Confederacy would likely control some share of the nation's nuclear arsenal. A secession, as unlikely a possibility as that is, would likely be allowed to happen without a war simply because neither the Union nor the Confederacy would allow any scenario which could escalate to a nuclear exchange.
polyh3dron
Banned
googleplex
Member
Your nuts if you think the federal government would just let Texas keep any nuclear weaponry if they tried to secced.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Going to war would encourage them to fire the nukes off. What option does anyone have here, other than not go to war?
soundscream
Member
Are you under the impression that each state controls what ever nuclear arms are located within it?
And how did that turn out for them again?
Rygar 8 Bit
Jaguar 64-bit
they wouldnt get any arsenal just whatever a militia would have and nothing else
Rygar 8 Bit
Jaguar 64-bit
states dont have control to launch weapons
Yeah, I can't imagine any facility with nuclear weapons being strictly a National Guard facility, I have to imagine that's under federal control and I don't see any State trying to seize US assets like that. They may try and keep National Guard equipment but I imagine that's it.
There's not a snowballs chance in hell they would lunch nukes. For one, they don't have the launch codes and I'm sure the pentagon could remotely disable them even if they some how got them. Second, they would be basically nuking themselves since its in the same country. Third, we could nuke back so they would die also AKA M.A.D. You sound like bad Tom Clancy novel.
Typhoon_Ex
Member
And what kind of people live in Syria now?
At any rate it's not gonna happen, crazy people will say and do crazy things.
Perhaps, but that's also very much purple, not as deep red as some.
What kind of idiocy is this? You are telling me the federal government would just let a state secede because some lunatics want to and not do anything about it? What type of fantasy world do you live in?
I assume it wouldn't get more than 3 EVs, would it? Other than Nate Silver having to purchase a new domain name, I don't see it making *that* much of a difference in the grand scheme of things, or am I missing something significant?
If the secession had been successful, it would have been a war, not a civil war. A successful secession tens to include a state existing without being at war with the state it seceded from.
This is a whole other subject. Secession these days would only be able to be accomplished after a complete dismantling of all Federal assets within the state. Bases, missile silos, etc. All VA assets, all Fed Govt offices, FBI, Homeland Security. People in those jobs would all move away. Only after all that occurred, when fences can be erected as a border, only when Border Patrol offices are placed in bordering states and fully staffed, only after all Americans who wish to stay Americans can sell their homes and move.
Nah, easier to just tell people who want out of America to get lost.
Nah, easier to just tell people who want out of America to get lost.
ding ding
The only reason it was a civil war is because of which side won, victor writing history, yadda, yadda.
That said, I think it would have been interesting to see how things would have played out had the South not been total asshats about the whole ordeal, had everything leading up to the succession been peaceful along with SC perhaps not jumping the gun and firing first maybe they actually would have been allowed to go despite it pissing everyone off.
All that said though the south were guilty of being asshats, of murdering people before they seceded and did fire the first shots of the war so history never got to see if the United States would have had to come up with a way of peacefully allowing a State to leave or not.
Which, ultimately is a good thing in my opinion.
That said, I think it would have been interesting to see how things would have played out had the South not been total asshats about the whole ordeal, had everything leading up to the succession been peaceful along with SC perhaps not jumping the gun and firing first maybe they actually would have been allowed to go despite it pissing everyone off.
All that said though the south were guilty of being asshats, of murdering people before they seceded and did fire the first shots of the war so history never got to see if the United States would have had to come up with a way of peacefully allowing a State to leave or not.
Which, ultimately is a good thing in my opinion.
I think it would have around 5, based on its current population.
I had half a mind it would have a DC-like deal, although thinking about it further I'm not quite sure why I came to that conclusion.
If there was a clear mandate from the people of a State I'm not sure how a government could refuse. Now a clear mandate would probably need to be in the upper end of the scale, like 80%+ of the voting population. Since there is already a functioning local State government the US States would be in a good condition to cut the cord. I'd love to see it happening.
I don't believe most States are in a position to "cut the cord."
Considering the breakdown of things like Medicare and Social Security people who rely on those would instantly be in trouble, even if the State did have the money to be able to replicate that taking over would be a mess. This is of course ignoring the problem of the actual currency.
I also think they'd lose a lot of businesses that happen to just have branches in that State so I imagine there'd be a mass exodus of people from those places because who wants to get stuck in a now foreign country, you didn't sign you and your family up for that when you took that offer in Dallas.
Then I think many State's economies would crumble, especially a State like Texas which banks heavily on scalping industry from other States just so it can be freely exported back to the rest of the country with a lower operating income, once you can't build the shit for cheap in Tennessee or Texas and send it to the other States why exactly would you build a plant there?
Not that I don't think some States could manage, I think Texas actually could after the initial pain of leaving "make it" alone but it'd be far from the good times some of those people think it'd be.
2 petitions to deport everyone who signed the secession petitions. lol. Wish I would have thought of that. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions
Haha, that's funny.
Wait, my State already has over 60,000 signatures to secede? I really hope some of that's from the outside who'd just like to kick my State out lol.
Oh I totally agree. I really meant from an infrastructure point of view. I can imagine that the transition would be financially very painful.
As an experiment I would love for it to happen, just for the fallout. In fact I wish that disgruntled republicans, who are threatening to leave the country, would move to one of the less populous states to create their conservative dystopia.
Fox Mulder
Member
Lol, states don't control any nukes that are stored in their borders, and don't have the capability to even use them. The federal government has military bases all over the country, while states would have what, a redneck militia?
Alpha-Bromega
Member
this is completely false. The "civil" war was actually a war between independent political entities started from hostile actions by the CSA, that is, the bombardment of Fort Sumter.
Had the CSA never initiated hostilities with the USA, the CSA would have very likely survived. The USA as a federation was never strong enough to have made the independent nations that reside within the borders moot, in fact the idea of breaking into regional nation-states has been a feature of the continent since King James.
The USA as a political union has always been on very, very shaky foundations. the notion of secession is not only not novel, it's expected. Looking at the structure of the constitution one can see that vast compromises that had to be made to keep such independent political entities such as New England, New Amsterdam, The Barbados slave holders, the Quakers and the Scots-Irish together in a shaky union.
The arbitrary (that is, through force) placement of us all into one union is the source of many of our problems. The 'south' (the dixie alliance between 3 regional cultures) demonstrably shows a complete propensity against the values that many others share, and has displayed it's political and cultural independence MANY times, not limited to the CSA we have 'Transylvania' , 'The Republic of Franklin' , as well as the failed Whiskey Rebellion.
If they want to secede, let them. the country is only weaker for letting nations that have historically proven themselves to be incompatible with the rest of the nation continue to be the source of our ills. When they demonstrably want a theocracy, indeed one nation under god, then let them have that state and don't allow their anti-scientific, racist idealogue that is indemic in the region to halt the progress of the rest of the country. It's not kicking them out, they want out. they've done it multiple times before, each time stopped by pompous federalists who felt it was their job to "civilize" the dixies (ex. reconstruction), each time failing. For gods sake, they were an openly racist cast society until the 60's and had to be intimidated with the 101st airborne to allow blacks to go to school.
WickedCobra03
Member
I want them to put their money where their mouth is. Im not going to lie, I would probably be amused if this escalated. The south would turn into an even bigger area of disparity. I don't get the though process of the "south" in general on anything.
We've been over this before:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0210/Scalia_No_to_secession.html
BUT- this was re-surfaced by the crazies. Heres the link, pretty much only for the comments
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/the...scalia-shoots-down-idea-of-leaving-the-union/
This is the shit...:
HAUSCHILD
Posted on November 13, 2012 at 1:05pm
If there is no “right” to secede, then there is only one other option and we types have done it before.
Log in to Reply
MIKEM1969
Posted on November 13, 2012 at 1:14pm
LOCK AND LOAD. I am ready to take this country back from tyrany. Oh, and while we are at it, let’s send every single liberal progressive to the middle east, they should last a couple of days over there.
SOYBOMB315_II
Posted on November 13, 2012 at 1:19pm
“Give us Romney, or give us death”
SNOWLEOPARD {GALLERY OF CAT FOLKS}
Posted on November 13, 2012 at 1:22pm
@Mike:
That will be coming from Obama soon enough if he has his way; the difference is this – we will not be in a civil war, we will be in a revolution against the tyranny of DC and of Emperor Caligula-Obama.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0210/Scalia_No_to_secession.html
BUT- this was re-surfaced by the crazies. Heres the link, pretty much only for the comments
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/the...scalia-shoots-down-idea-of-leaving-the-union/
This is the shit...:
HAUSCHILD
Posted on November 13, 2012 at 1:05pm
If there is no “right” to secede, then there is only one other option and we types have done it before.
Log in to Reply
MIKEM1969
Posted on November 13, 2012 at 1:14pm
LOCK AND LOAD. I am ready to take this country back from tyrany. Oh, and while we are at it, let’s send every single liberal progressive to the middle east, they should last a couple of days over there.
SOYBOMB315_II
Posted on November 13, 2012 at 1:19pm
“Give us Romney, or give us death”
SNOWLEOPARD {GALLERY OF CAT FOLKS}
Posted on November 13, 2012 at 1:22pm
@Mike:
That will be coming from Obama soon enough if he has his way; the difference is this – we will not be in a civil war, we will be in a revolution against the tyranny of DC and of Emperor Caligula-Obama.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Deportation? I though execution was the punishment for treason. Not that I condone such methods.
Let them do it, it'd might be interesting to see what would happen.
They could probably enforce slavery again by taking people across to their border? I can see a civil war happening again.
They could probably enforce slavery again by taking people across to their border? I can see a civil war happening again.
Not loading for me for some reason.
This is all meaningless doubletalk. Lincoln's position, which is the dominant position since, you know, he won, was that secession was impossible (because the Constitution created a "more perfect union") and that the Confederacy had no legal standing. Thus the war was fought to protect federal property (i.e, the forts) from illegal seizure, not to reunify the country -- officially, the country was still unified.
Kind of irrelevant, since it would be practically impossible for a popular vote for secession to actually come to pass.
God. I love where I live. I mean, I loooove it. I step outside my door, look at the huge oak trees and the old buildings, hear the horses clop-clopping down the streets, and I sigh happily. Then there's the food and the music and all of the different excuses to have a festival or party..
I honestly don't know what I'd do in that scenario. I've always said I'd gladly fight for my city and that I would drown with it.. but not for this ass-backwards state. Maybe we'd be able to get some sort of underground insurgency going in the cities down here?
Another thing I love? Being a liberal in the South gets one a front-row seat to watching these backwards troglodytes wrestle with their anguish over being dragged kicking and screaming into the future by essentially the rest of the country.
While I'm playing make-believe: if forced to uproot for some strange reason? Burlington, Vermont, I guess?
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Judging from the reactions of the Republican base, I don't think they're going to learn their lesson with this election. If the Dems nominate someone halfway decent in 2016, they're heavily favored for the White House, and I think the reactions on the right are going to get even worse. This is mild compared to what we're going to see.
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