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Sony Q2 FY13: PS3 2.0 M

J

jcm

Member
satam55 said:
Nope. The fact that Japan cares a lot more about Handhelds than consoles is a big reason for the Vita's existence.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if they would start buying enough that Sony can make money off it that'd be great. Until then it's a giant mistake.
 
K

Kazuma Kiryu

Member
satam55 said:
Nope. The fact that Japan cares a lot more about Handhelds than consoles is a big reason for the Vita's existence.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm aware of why the Vita exists. Japan is heavily focused on the handheld market, and Sony thought they could have another decent run with their handheld (not just there but worldwide), but they're failing for several reasons (imo), which I'm not going to describe right now.
However, we're reaching 2 year milestone since the Vita was released there, and it hasn't even sold 2 million units. Do we even have concrete numbers of how it's selling in Europe and America? They're been hiding Vita's awful performance for months in their reports...

This thing is as good as dead. It will carve out a niche market in Japan and will see a very minor sales bump because of the PS4 remote play feature worlwide. That's it. The Vita is Sony's "WiiU". They took too long to react on several issues (hardware, software, accessories pricing) and didn't secure key 3rd party franchises that helped them in the PSP era.

So yes, so far it has been a mistake.
 
A

Arc

Member
Man Sony Pictures really needs to get their act together. No way they are profitable in FY2014, too many bombas.
 
E

Elios83

Member
USC-fan said:
wonder how much cost of ps4 development factor into these numbers?
Click to expand...

This quarter there was probably a peak for PS4 related expenses.
The product has gone into manufacturing but for now there's no return, it's all costs.
Sony stated that PS4 will contribute to profitability early when it goes on sale.
Also really good PS3 numbers, at this point there is no doubt that LTD shipments have surpassed the 360.

The whole company hasn't done well during the quarter. Smartphones are killing demand for dedicated cameras, TV business is still a challenge, PC business is down for everyone and the movie division has collected some bombs at the box office.
They have downgraded their profit forecast for the whole fiscal year.
If they can't turn around the TV business really soon, 2014 will be the end of Sony's TVs.
 
M

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Devilgunman said:
This summarize nicely. Holyshit @ Sony picture tanking. Everything else seems to do alright. Biggest improvement is Smartphone section thanks to very nice Xperia lines. Home Entertainment division is also getting better from being an absolute shithole for the entire corporation. Game division has nothing to worry with PS4 coming but keep figers crossed with the Vita TV.
Click to expand...

Well think about it, Sony had a few major pictures bomb, and each movie that bombs costs them tens to hundreds of millions.

Whats funny is that on paper, even a movie that made billions still results in a zero profit. Holloywood accounting and all that.
 
V

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
zomgbbqftw said:
SPE killed the results. Complete failure by the division. After Earth and White House Down both tanked and were expensive to make. Kaz needs to clear out the management at the division and look at starting their own premium cable TV channel like HBO for their own programming like Breaking Bad.

As for the game division, 2m PS3s should conclusively prove that it is now ahead of 360. A 5m target for PS4 is decent, but I suspect they have played it down a bit so they can have a bit of investor cheer for the full year results.

Company wide, they still have yet to normalise their tax situation which is weighing down on net profits. And there was a forecast downgrade. Xperia did okay, should be doing better. I have yet to look at the detail though.
Click to expand...

Yeah. SPE weighed down the results significantly. Alot of divisions are showing contraction and negative signs of growth nonetheless which is never good to begin with. To be honest, their Financial Services is what is keeping Sony afloat. The overall results weren't great.
 
M

maabus1999

Member
Fixed1979 said:
Stock is down 11.87% right now. This makes me sad.
Click to expand...

This is due to the main fact that Sony's core TV business is just not working. They tried a turn around but it is now back in the red. What is worse is that this is company specific, not market specific as Panasonic released a positive outlook for this sector. I'll quickly add that Panasonic is shifting away from consumer electronics while Sony is not; one strategy is paying off...

BL: Sony does not currently have a workable turn around strategy for their core electronics businesses. Investor pressure is going to be very, very high now.
 
J

Joeki11a

Banned
royalan said:
PS3 with some impressive legs. And we' haven't even gotten a truly budget-priced model yet.

At this rate, I think it could easily add another 10 million units to its lifetime sales.
Click to expand...

You wont see a 99.99 ps3


I always had the idea of a Digital only PS3

no bluray disc drive, 10T HDD but Sony

wont do that.
 
D

Devilgunman

Member
Kazuma Kiryu said:
So yes, so far it has been a mistake.
Click to expand...

Not really a mistake. It's not Sony's fault that handheld market has shrunk by smartphone/tablet. Vita by itself is a great device with great library but people just don't see it fit their lifestyle, unlike the WiiU, which is underpowered and plagued with Nintendo poor online infrastructure and lack 3rd party support.
 
S

satam55

Banned
Kazuma Kiryu said:
Yes, I'm aware of why the Vita exists. Japan is heavily focused on the handheld market, and Sony thought they could have another decent run with their handheld (not just there but worldwide), but they're failing for several reasons (imo), which I'm not going to describe right now.
However, we're reaching 2 year milestone since the Vita was released there, and it hasn't even sold 2 million units. Do we even have concrete numbers of how it's selling in Europe and America? They're been hiding Vita's awful performance for months in their reports...

This thing is as good as dead. It will carve out a niche market in Japan and will see a very minor sales bump because of the PS4 remote play feature worlwide. That's it. The Vita is Sony's "WiiU". They took too long to react on several issues (hardware, software, accessories pricing) and didn't secure key 3rd party franchises that helped them in the PSP era.

So yes, so far it has been a mistake.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure it has sold over 5 million units.
 
R

Road

Member
Canis lupus said:
Is this the first time Sony is reporting PSN downloads under software?
Click to expand...

They started this fiscal year, so this is the second time.

If you compare FY12 software sales before and after they added the footnote, there's a big difference:

Code: 
                  Q1    Q2    Q3    Q4
FY12 PS3/PS2    20.1  41.4  61.7  30.7
FY12 Vita/PSP    5.8   8.7   8.9   5.4

FY12 Total      25.9  50.1  70.6  36.1
FY12 "Software" 43    60    84    79

Difference     ~17   ~10   ~13   ~43

The difference in Q4 is simply huge, especially considering it's Jan-Mar 2013 (was anything special released on PSN in that period?).

We don't know what is included in the "Software (Sales)", not if it goes beyond PlayStation systems, or if it includes the "free" games on PSN+; I'm not even sure it is unit sales anymore, but $$$ sales instead (the legend is confusing).
 
P

Parmenides

Banned
Joco said:
I'm not sure what to make of this. What were the expectations for the quarter? Sony's been through a hell of a time the past few years, does an $8 million loss mean that they're finally reducing the losses or that they're still struggling with no end in sight?
Click to expand...
Birathen said:
What do these Numbers meen in "Nintendo"? Doomed or DOOMED!! ?
Click to expand...
It means that five divisions posted operating losses, Sony unexpectedly posted a second-quarter loss, lowered annual forecast for TVs, PCs ,digital cameras, and slashed its full-year net income forecast by 40 percent to 30 billion yen. Sony's credit rating may be downgraded to junk by Moody’s, shares dropped 11%... Kaz Hirai has his hands full.

jwhit28 said:
When was the last time Sony's game division had a net profit year?
Click to expand...
Sony's game division posted an operating income of 47 billion yen in FY10, 29 billion yen in FY11 and 1.7 billion yen in FY12.

KingSnake said:
So, operating loss. And next quarter PS4 is coming. That should produce even more loss, right? Or it is sold at profit?
Click to expand...
PS4 in FY13 is bad news in terms of P&L.

The decision of launching PS4 in FY13 did not make sense until we saw the Xbox One. There are potential pitfalls in US/UK/JP, but the PS4 will be very dominant on a worldwide basis.

That said, there is still a long way to go before Game can achieve an operating income margin of 8%. Game needs to have two healthy platforms (PS3 and PS4) more than ever.

serversurfer said:
I'm guessing Sony's public forecast of 5M PS4s is below their internal sales forecasts, both to give them some wiggle room if they don't quite meet the internal forecast, and to give themselves something to brag about if they do.
If all goes according to plan, how many units can we realistically expect them to move by April? 6M? 7M? Or do we not even expect them to hit 5M? Patcher said they can build 1M/month, right? If they started production by the beginning of September — and they seem to have — that'd give them 7M units through March. Can they actually sell that many?
Click to expand...
5 million units by the end of FY13 seems a pretty conservative number.

The PS3 could have sold 4.5M in FY06. Unfortunately, Sony gave priority to Japan and PAL had to wait until March. That didn't work out: the PS3 had a terrible start in Japan, but broke sales records in PAL territories.

Into said:
The PS3 sold more than every other home console combined.

What seems to have happened with the 360 is similar to what happened to the original Wii a few years ago, it just lost its legs and crumbled.
Click to expand...
The US represented 25% of the worldwide PS360 market over the last six months. It used to be more than 40%.

Additionally, the PS3 makes 30% of its sales outside US/JP/West EU.

Into said:
With Gran Turismo 6, a huge seller with legs, they will see lesser drop offs than the 360 into the next year. Though what effect a 399 PS4 will have on PS3 remains to be seen. I think they should cut the price ever so slightly in Japan, the console is stagnant there at 10-15k for months now, granted its outselling the Wii U and has been all year but thats not some kind of bragging prize to outsell the Wii U anyway.

I said it before, they will likely cross that 100 million mark with the PS3 in 2-3 years, which a few years ago was unthinkable with how poorly the console performed.
Click to expand...

normal rules don't apply to the PS3.

Its software sales are very strong, and its hardware sales are strong when considering the MSRP and the size of the userbase.

Code: 
                  PSP       PS1       PS3

   FY             2009      2000      2013            

Shipments         9.9M      9.3M      10.0M (Forecast)

  LTD             61.5M     82.2M     87-88M

Historically, Sony consoles made 30 - 33 % of their sales after the launch of their successors. The small markets inflated those sales figures. And it won't be any different here. Both Sony and the PS4 need a strong PS3.
 
O

Otakumegane

Member
So Ps3 price isn't dropping soon eh.

Gaikai is something that I'm unsure of and behind a couple walls for me. Really wanna play Valk chronicles and Xillia1+2
 
K

kswiston

Member
So I suppose this means PS3 has finally moved into second place (or will do so this holiday). It's crazy that all three of this generation's consoles will likely end within 15% of each other sales-wise given how things looked by 2007 or 2008.
 
P

pixelbox

Member
Parmenides said:
It means that five divisions posted operating losses, Sony unexpectedly posted a second-quarter loss, lowered annual forecast for TVs, PCs ,digital cameras, and slashed its full-year net income forecast by 40 percent to 30 billion yen. Sony's credit rating may be downgraded to junk by Moody’s, shares dropped 11%... Kaz Hirai has his hands full.


Sony's game division posted an operating income of 47 billion yen in FY10, 29 billion yen in FY11 and 1.7 billion yen in FY12.


PS4 in FY13 is bad news in terms of P&L.

The decision of launching PS4 in FY13 did not make sense until we saw the Xbox One. There are potential pitfalls in US/UK/JP, but the PS4 will be very dominant on a worldwide basis.

That said, there is still a long way to go before Game can achieve an operating income margin of 8%. Game needs to have two healthy platforms (PS3 and PS4) more than ever.


5 million units by the end of FY13 seems a pretty conservative number.

The PS3 could have sold 4.5M in FY06. Unfortunately, Sony gave priority to Japan and PAL had to wait until March. That didn't work out: the PS3 had a terrible start in Japan, but broke sales records in PAL territories.


The US represented 25% of the worldwide PS360 market over the last six months. It used to be more than 40%.

Additionally, the PS3 makes 30% of its sales outside US/JP/West EU.



normal rules don't apply to the PS3.

Its software sales are very strong, and its hardware sales are strong when considering the MSRP and the size of the userbase.

Code: 
                  PSP       PS1       PS3

   FY             2009      2000      2013            

Shipments         9.9M      9.3M      10.0M (Forecast)

  LTD             61.5M     82.2M     87-88M

Historically, Sony consoles made 30 - 33 % of their sales after the launch of their successors. The small markets inflated those sales figures. And it won't be any different here. Both Sony and the PS4 need a strong PS3.
Click to expand...

So i don't get it, they are reversing the loses. Is it because recovery is too slow? And what about the TVs? From what I see it doesn't look like its losing to much money, I feel it's their PCs.
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
Parmenides said:
5 million units by the end of FY13 seems a pretty conservative number.
Click to expand...

I guess SNE really doesn't want to upset investors with overestimated shipment forecasts this time around.

They've already been burned once with wild Vita estimates...these reasonable estimates are a necessary regression for the sake of the share price.
 
S

spwolf

Member
pixelbox said:
So i don't get it, they are reversing the loses. Is it because recovery is too slow? And what about the TVs? From what I see it doesn't look like its losing to much money, I feel it's their PCs.
Click to expand...

its Movies that fukd the projections.... they had few big flops.
 
N

Nightengale

Member
spwolf said:
its Movies that fukd the projections.... they had few big flops.
Click to expand...

The movies that SPE green-lighted in recent memory... urgh.

SPE felt like a B-tier film producer this year. Those titles have BOMBA written all over them, I don't understand how they thought it could've been good.
 
L

Louis Cyphre

Banned
Devilgunman said:
Not really a mistake. It's not Sony's fault that handheld market has shrunk by smartphone/tablet. Vita by itself is a great device with great library but people just don't see it fit their lifestyle, unlike the WiiU, which is underpowered and plagued with Nintendo poor online infrastructure and lack 3rd party support.
Click to expand...

Isn't Nintendo's handheld there bright spot and selling a lot more than Vita?

Many thought Kaz Hirai was going to turn the company around but it looks even worse now than a year ago. A lot is riding on the success of the PS4, that's for sure, but how much do the games division represent Sony as a whole?
 
B

BladeoftheImmortal

Member
Nightengale said:
The movies that SPE green-lighted in recent memory... urgh.

SPE felt like a B-tier film producer this year. Those titles have BOMBA written all over them, I don't understand how they thought it could've been good.
Click to expand...
i get greenlighting white house down. i mean air force one had a huge draw at the box office back in the day. problem is they didnt have a Harrison Ford in the starring role.
 
B

BKK

Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=710230

So ...

PS3 Unit Sales (Unit: Million)

Code: 
 HW      Ap-Jn     Jl-Sp     Oc-Dc     Ja-Mr      FY        LTD

FY06       -         -        1.7       1.8       3.5       3.5

FY07      0.7       1.3       4.9       2.2       9.1       12.6 

FY08      1.6       2.4       4.5       1.6       10.1      22.7 

FY09      1.1       3.2       6.5       2.2       13.0      35.7

FY10      2.4       3.5       6.3       2.1       14.3      50.0

FY11      1.8       3.7       6.5       1.9       13.9      63.9

FY12                                             <13.0     <76.9

FY13      1.1       2.0        -         -        3.1      <80.0

PS2 Unit Sales (Unit: Million)

Code: 
HW      Ap-Jn     Jl-Sp     Oc-Dc     Ja-Mr      FY        LTD

FY09      1.6       1.9       2.1       1.7       7.3       144.5

FY10      1.6       1.5       2.1       1.2       6.4       150.9

FY11      1.4       1.2       0.9       0.6       4.1       155.1

FY12                                             >3.5      >158.6
 
L

lefantome

Member
BKK said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=710230

So ...

PS3 Unit Sales (Unit: Million)

Code: 
 HW      Ap-Jn     Jl-Sp     Oc-Dc     Ja-Mr      FY        LTD

FY06       -         -        1.7       1.8       3.5       3.5

FY07      0.7       1.3       4.9       2.2       9.1       12.6 

FY08      1.6       2.4       4.5       1.6       10.1      22.7 

FY09      1.1       3.2       6.5       2.2       13.0      35.7

FY10      2.4       3.5       6.3       2.1       14.3      50.0

FY11      1.8       3.7       6.5       1.9       13.9      63.9

FY12                                             <13.0     <76.9

FY13      1.1       2.0        -         -        3.1      <80.0

PS2 Unit Sales (Unit: Million)

Code: 
HW      Ap-Jn     Jl-Sp     Oc-Dc     Ja-Mr      FY        LTD

FY09      1.6       1.9       2.1       1.7       7.3       144.5

FY10      1.6       1.5       2.1       1.2       6.4       150.9

FY11      1.4       1.2       0.9       0.6       4.1       155.1

FY12                                             >3.5      >158.6
Click to expand...


I think ps2 made less than 3.5 millions.

The 80 millions data counts ps3 "sold" not shipped. Ps3 was at 77 millions this february And shipped 6.5 millions from january to september.
How come ps3 is still at 80 millions shipped in november?
Was ps2 selling this good?
 
P

Perkel

Banned
casiopao said:
Is there Vita total sells there Gaffers? the one which is not combined with PSP?
Click to expand...

No they are fudging numbers for stockholders.

Nintendo can also can do this 3DS 185mln (-DS)

Sony just doesn't have any real handheld ip that will sell bazillion. They also don't care about it from first party dev perspective and mostly port games for it instead of creating actually new IPs from ground up.

Simply put Sony devs are still to small to release ton of games on PS4 AND their portable systems.

They need to build 4-5 handheld only studios witch each one having two teams. GG or MM additions are fantastic but i doubt GG or MM want to create Vita only games.
 
L

lefantome

Member
allan-bh said:
80m is shipped number (sold in=shipped)
Click to expand...

Then the data from sony are inconsistent or they draw an unlikely scenario.
i know that sold is usually shipped but not always.

They shipped 3 millions from april september so they should have announced the 80 millions some week ago.
This is not counting half february, march and october ps3 shipments.
 
C

casiopao

Member
Perkel said:
No they are fudging numbers for stockholders.

Nintendo can also can do this 3DS 185mln (-DS)

Sony just doesn't have any real handheld ip that will sell bazillion. They also don't care about it from first party dev perspective and mostly port games for it instead of creating actually new IPs from ground up.

Simply put Sony devs are still to small to release ton of games on PS4 AND their portable systems.

They need to build 4-5 handheld only studios witch each one having two teams. GG or MM additions are fantastic but i doubt GG or MM want to create Vita only games.
Click to expand...

So till now, we don't even know how much Vita is sold till now worlwide right. I really hoped that Vita should have sold more than 5 mil here.
 
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