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[enMTW]

Another thing I need to ask about, what do features have to do with power? The Wii U has a tablet controller so it must be a generation leap above the Xbox One and PS4. That is the argument you are making.

And let me be clear, the PS2 was significantly weaker than the Xbox and GameCube. They released around two years after the PS2 I think, but regardless there is a significant power difference.

But a broken clock is right twice a day.

It's all part of the same equation. Capability. You build the feature set that enables the games to do the things they do. You put hardware - hardware many times more powerful than what was in the PS2 - behind it. Combine the factors and you get games that could not exist on the PS2.

A....,eh. You know it already.

Halo pic was bad, sorry, but the PS2 one was not photoshopped (to my knowledge)

Here is some footage of TLG (which did to be fair, suck more power out of PS2 than any game had any right to).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c752KC2j4Y

SOTC ran like absolute ass - unplayably bad IMO ((15-20 FPS)) while being far less graphically impressive than either Halo 2 or Chaos theory.

 

[Bastables]

Let me try to break this down. Let's say the way I measured sales were by taking a sample of the customers. Whoever had the bigger dick was counted twice. If the resultsI got were that the PS4 sold more in the months that it did, my methodology would still be incorrect.

Amazon doesn't reset their charts month-to-month. Systems build leads and drop position far slower than they do in the real world. They can shoot up quickly on account of promos, but to drop takes a sustained period of next-to-no sales.

So, for instance, if Amazon were to discount the PS TV to $20 on the last day of this month, it would remain high in the charts all through the following month.

No one else does that. The methodology is wrong. It results in situations where the PS4 is 100% sold out, not available for pre-order, but #1 on the charts.

wut
You're actually complaining that a monthly stat tracker is taking historical (month long) data into account. A stats tracker that has been borne out by being correct every month

wut about the bigger dick being counted twice? Counting/taking into account/weighting historical data is not counting things twice. Do you know how to stats/use metaphors bro?

I am actually becoming stupider reading your rantings.

 

[Biker19]

Let's just think about this for a second. Let's list the most graphically impressive games last generation between the Xbox 360 and PS3.

Uncharted 2
Uncharted 3
Beyond: Two Souls
Killzone 3
God of War 3
God of War Ascension
The Last of Us

Halo 4
Gears of War 3

The positions of the games are debatable, and there are some games I'm likely missing, but that's a good idea of what the machines are capable. If the Xbox 360 is so clearly more powerful, why are the best looking games so skewed towards the PS3. Shouldn't the Xbox 360 have more graphical showcases since it's so much more powerful?

I agree. While the Xbox 360 does have a much superior GPU than the PS3 does, that advantage is made irrelevant when the cell processor is fully used to it's potential by combining it along with the RSX, as the cell processor is a beast in comparison to the CPU inside Xbox 360.

But the cell processor is very hard to code for, & most 3rd party publishers simply don't have the kind of time & money just to make PS3 versions of games perform up to par with the Xbox 360 versions, or even surpass the Xbox 360 versions of games. That's the only reason why Xbox 360 manages to get away with better performing &/or better looking multiplatform titles than the PS3 about 90% of the time. The only multiplatform games that are guaranteed to look &/or run much better on PS3, are games from Japanese 3rd party publishers.

List of multiplat games from the 7th gen below as an example:

https://misterslimm.wordpress.com/v...box-360-vs-ps3-head-to-head-face-off-results/

 

[i-Lo]

Damn, never played Halo 4 (i have never been a fan of Halo); but in those shots, the game looks reaaaaally good.

OT: I concur. It was a notable leap over what Bungie had produced visually with the franchise. A pinnacle in visual achievement on the 360 as well as the franchise. The game also had great atmosphere (second only to ODST, imho) too.

 

[LilZippa]

What Amazon is doing is throwing all the math out and picking winners out of a hat. It's a ******** style bullshit chart that is completely disconnected from what every other retailer is seeing.

The past is a good indicator, yes, if all things are equal. What about sales? What if you drop the price a bunch for a limited period of time? You can earn a high Amazon ranking for the future based on a one time action.

I really don't think what I posted is that hard to grasp. If you honestly think your sale charts should take into account last months data, if a sale at the end of one month should carry into the next months rankings.....well, so be it.

You haven't provided any proof of this data holding over from month to month on monthly sales data and keep acting as though it is fact.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

What Amazon is doing is throwing all the math out and picking winners out of a hat. It's a ******** style bullshit chart that is completely disconnected from what every other retailer is seeing.

The past is a good indicator, yes, if all things are equal. What about sales? What if you drop the price a bunch for a limited period of time? You can earn a high Amazon ranking for the future based on a one time action.

I really don't think what I posted is that hard to grasp. If you honestly think your sale charts should take into account last months data, if a sale at the end of one month should carry into the next months rankings.....well, so be it.

Here is a way over simplistic example of how Amazon charts work:

"Hey, according to our data the PS4 is about 25% ahead of the Xbox One in sales."

"Yeah, and each of the last 8 months the PS4 has sold between 18-28% more than the Xbox One."

"So based on both of those things, it's reasonable to believe the PS4 sold around 25% more based on current and historical data?"

"Yup. We've been right 14 months in a row. Must be doing something right."

I mean seriously, I don't even see a logical argument against it. You certainly haven't given one. You just have biases that won't allow you to accept it.

 

[cakely]

What Amazon is doing is throwing all the math out and picking winners out of a hat. It's a ******** style bullshit chart that is completely disconnected from what every other retailer is seeing.

No, it's not.

Do you honestly think the Amazon monthly chart was created randomly? And that it was just a complete coincidence that those random predictions lined up with NPD results?

I really don't think what I posted is that hard to grasp.

It's impossible to grasp, because it's incredibly inaccurate.

 

[Biker19]

And enMTW just got banned.

 

[meanspartan]

It could not.

Ya I figured. That gap is just too wide.

But Dreamcast was out two years before Xbox. So it was more than the "usual" one year gap we often see between systems in each generation. Rule of thumb seems to be if they launch within a year of each other or around that, there is not a giant leap though one is superior to the other.

Ps2 > Dreamcast
Xbox > Ps2
etc

I do think to have a generational leap you need to make games that cannot run on the previous console. While Xbox games may not run on Dreamcast and that complicates my argument a bit, the death of that console means most people exclude it from Gen 6 anyway. Halo 2 could probably run on Ps2, albeit not with HD support probably.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I can see a 2:1 lead being a possibility as well.

 

[truth411]

Let's just think about this for a second. Let's list the most graphically impressive games last generation between the Xbox 360 and PS3.

The Last of Us
Uncharted 3
Uncharted 2
Beyond Two Souls
God of War Ascension
Halo 4
Killzone 2
God of War 3
Gears of War 3
Killzone 3
The positions of the games are debateable, and there are some games I'm likely missing, but that's a good idea of what the machines are capable. If the Xbox 360 is so clearly more powerful, why are the best looking games so skewed towards the PS3. Shouldn't the Xbox 360 have more graphical showcases since it's so much more powerful?

Fixed..

 

[Final Verdict]

It's all part of the same equation. Capability. You build the feature set that enables the games to do the things they do. You put hardware - hardware many times more powerful than what was in the PS2 - behind it. Combine the factors and you get games that could not exist on the PS2.

A....,eh. You know it already.



SOTC ran like absolute ass - unplayably bad IMO ((15-20 FPS)) while being far less graphically impressive than either Halo 2 or Chaos theory.

Woah, what happened?

Anyways, I guess you are right about the performance of SotC being bad on PS2...
though it still was a very impressive game.

I guess we should get back on topic though...I did not mean to derail the thread...

 

[Steroyd]

Fixed now (Direct feed- all from Gamersyde).

Point is both games are visually amazing (esp. in motion on tv) and THAT is what a GENERATIONAL leap looks like over PS2/Xbox and not what Xbox had to offer over PS2.

Yeah and if we really getting into semantics here we could talk about how later PS2 games are a generational leap over the earlier PS2 games, hell I bet there's a shocking difference between Uncharted 1 and TLOU.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Lol.

At least this thread can get back on track.

The graph is interesting, the 80m figure is actually the installed base and looking at the peak PS3/360 figure they are about 60m, which doesn't take into account 25% of the final shipped figure. The 80m figure here could correlate with over 100m shipped units total for PS4 and around 75m for XB1. The latter figure seems unachievable, but the former should be within reach.

 

[cakely]

And enMTW just got banned.

I really should have stopped posting in this thread but, someone was wrong on the internet.

 

[Steroyd]

I really should have stopped posting in this thread but, someone was wrong on the internet.

Ah the life of Gaf, no self control.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

I agree. While the Xbox 360 does have a much superior GPU than the PS3 does, that advantage is made irrelevant when the cell processor is fully used to it's potential by combining it along with the RSX, as the cell processor is a beast in comparison to the CPU inside Xbox 360.

But the cell processor is very hard to code for, & most 3rd party publishers simply don't have the kind of time & money just to make PS3 versions of games perform up to par with the Xbox 360 versions, or even surpass the Xbox 360 versions of games. That's the only reason why Xbox 360 manages to get away with better performing &/or better looking multiplatform titles than the PS3 about 90% of the time. The only multiplatform games that are guaranteed to look &/or run much better on PS3, are games from Japanese 3rd party publishers.

List of multiplat games from the 7th gen below as an example:

https://misterslimm.wordpress.com/v...box-360-vs-ps3-head-to-head-face-off-results/

My understanding is that games were originally created using the 360 as the base line. Subsequently most multiplatform games were better because the PS3 was much more complicated to code for. It's similar to a bad PC port.

Then a lot of developers began using the PS3 as the baseline, and multiplatform games were often pretty equal.

But at the end of the day, all of that is irrelevant because his initial point was that the Xbox 360 had a bigger power gap compared to the PS3 than the PS4 does to the Xbox One.

The Xbox 360 may be more powerful. I think it probably just a case of both being very close and each being better at certain things. That's not a significant power difference, especially when the majority of the best looking games are on the console he claims is weaker.

 

[Manmademan]

And enMTW just got banned.

The only surprise is that it took that long

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Fixed..

Killzone 3 is a very pretty game. It's a shame it lost the fantastic aesthetics of Killzone 2.

 

[A_Gorilla]

You'll last two months, tops.

You and I were both wrong. He didn't even last two hours...

 

[truth411]

My understanding is that games were originally created using the 360 as the base line. Subsequently most multiplatform games were better because the PS3 was much more complicated to code for. It's similar to a bad PC port.

Then a lot of developers began using the PS3 as the baseline, and multiplatform games were often pretty equal.

But at the end of the day, all of that is irrelevant because his initial point was that the Xbox 360 had a bigger power gap compared to the PS3 than the PS4 does to the Xbox One.

The Xbox 360 may be more powerful. I think it probably just a case of both being very close and each being better at certain things. That's not a significant power difference, especially when the majority of the best looking games are on the console he claims is weaker.

It wasn't, it's more of the case of the 360 being out first and more FAMILIAR architecture.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Sorry abou the thread derail.

Anyways, It's hard to be confident that the Xbox One can have a PS3 turn around because unlike Sony, Microsoft has many studios we know nothing about or have hurt their reputation. Even then I don't want to proclaim it preposterous that the Xbox One can make a significant comeback because I think Phil Spencer wants to make the Xbox division on par with Sony and Nintendo when it comes to games. I have doubts he will be able to do it, but with Microsoft's money I think anything is possible.

 

[Steroyd]

The only surprise is that it took that long

Outside of the derailing I think it was the Amazon thing that pushed him over the edge, it's been right for 14 months, you can't argue it being bullshit till it gets one wrong, then the grain of salt disclaimer happens.

On a different note, if I suspect the Xbox One to get 25-35m US sales, that means 20-30m outside of the US, that does seem pretty damn high, now that I think about it.

 

[Neuromancer]

I wonder how much the pre-launch DRM drama hurt the Xbox One's numbers versus the simple fact that it was initially priced at $100 more than the PS4.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

It wasn't, it's more of the case of the 360 being out first and more FAMILIAR architecture.

True, true. I'm not saying the Xbox 360 is more powerful - I honestly don't know which is more powerful - but I certainly don't think one is decisively more powerful than the other. That's the point I was making.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I wonder how much the pre-launch DRM drama hurt the Xbox One's numbers versus the simple fact that it was initially priced at $100 more than the PS4.

I think both of those things hurt the One substantially, but I also feel that people don't give enough credit to 360 being the first console out. The momentum with consumers and familiarity developers are what propelled it to its heights last gen. This gen the playing field was much more even, if you discount the Wii U. Now Microsoft has to use find a way to garner market share through other means.

 

[Final Verdict]

Sorry abou the thread derail.

Anyways, It's hard to be confident that the Xbox One can have a PS3 turn around because unlike Sony, Microsoft has many studios we know nothing about or have hurt their reputation. Even then I don't want to proclaim it preposterous that the Xbox One can make a significant comeback because I think Phil Spencer wants to make the Xbox division on par with Sony and Nintendo when it comes to games. I have doubts he will be able to do it, but with Microsoft's money I think anything is possible.

It will be interesting to watch for sure.

I personally think that they should pick up Playground Games as a 1st party studio, but then again, if they really want to stay independent, then leave them be...

But yeah, MS seriously needs to catch up with their 1st party...they have a great core of studios, but need to expand on that and add at least 4 more...

If they can continue to pump out good exclusives though, I think that ~70M could be reached by them this gen, with PS4 probably getting 140M.

 

[truth411]

Sorry abou the thread derail.

Anyways, It's hard to be confident that the Xbox One can have a PS3 turn around because unlike Sony, Microsoft has many studios we know nothing about or have hurt their reputation. Even then I don't want to proclaim it preposterous that the Xbox One can make a significant comeback because I think Phil Spencer wants to make the Xbox division on par with Sony and Nintendo when it comes to games. I have doubts he will be able to do it, but with Microsoft's money I think anything is possible.

Imo it's not possible because they aren't going to have massive market leadership in the U.S. and U.K. Heck, they don't have market leadership at all in their biggest territories. Europe and Japan isn't going to do anything for them either. There not going to have the Kinect boom this gen like last gen and Morpheus could play that roll for the PS4.

 

[Apathy]

Imo it's not possible because they aren't going to have massive market leadership in the U.S. and U.K. Heck, they don't have market leadership at all in their biggest territories. Europe and Japan isn't going to do anything for them either. There not going to have the Kinect boom this gen like last gen and Morpheus could play that roll for the PS4.

Well they might be banking on their AR glasses thing.

 

[Elandyll]

And enMTW just got banned.

Welp ... so much for that bet then

Well they might be banking on their AR glasses thing.

AR isn't really a core gaming thing though...

 

[TomShoe]

Welp ... so much for that bet then

Shame, he could have been the next Orochi91.

At least his Lava lamp quote will love on in GAF history.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Imo it's not possible because they aren't going to have massive market leadership in the U.S. and U.K. Heck, they don't have market leadership at all in their biggest territories. Europe and Japan isn't going to do anything for them either. There not going to have the Kinect boom this gen like last gen and Morpheus could play that roll for the PS4.

I agree, I think Microsoft's chances of making significant gains, let's say to within 20% of PS4 WW sales by 2019, is pretty low. Still, it's early enough into the generation that I still want to see what bold moves each company may make. I mean if Sony announced a Morpheus bundle at $500, has some exclusive games and their first party is as good if not better than last generation, I could easily see the PS4 skyrocketing.

But I don't know what crazy things might happen, so I'm trying to keep my definitive statement to a minimum. Have you seen the sale prediction threads from early last generation? Brutal!

 

[Final Verdict]

I agree, I think Microsoft's chances of making significant gains, let's say to within 20% of PS4 WW sales by 2019, is pretty low. Still, it's early enough into the generation that I still want to see what bold moves each company may make. I mean if Sony announced a Morpheus bundle at $500, has some exclusive games and their first party is as good if not better than last generation, I could easily see the PS4 skyrocketing.

But I don't know what crazy things might happen, so I'm trying to keep my definitive statement to a minimum. Have you seen the sale prediction threads from early last generation? Brutal!

Ha Ha, yeah, I wanna go back and read those now

I'm really curious to see how Morpheus, and MS's AR glasses go.
I think both are good Ideas, but I could see Morpheus being more piratical for gaming.

 

[Kezen]

Do you guys have a moment to talk about our lord and savior Jesus Christ ?

 

[sn00zer]

If Japan starts to buy, the gap will be wider.

Dragon Quest......it always Dragon Quest

 

[FunkyPajamas]

And enMTW just got banned.

Didn't last two hours. Poor guy.

Do you guys have a moment to talk about our lord and savior Jesus Christ ?

PM me the details.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Ha Ha, yeah, I wanna go back and read those now

I'm really curious to see how Morpheus, and MS's AR glasses go.
I think both are good Ideas, but I could see Morpheus being more piratical for gaming.

Has there been any official statement on whether Morpheus will work with PC? I think that is crucial, because otherwise I don't think Sony will justify its existence in the video game realm without PC devs working on both Morpheus and the PC VR headsets.

Morpheus can only be a game changer if people have reason to buy it. I hope Sony gives them a reason.

As for the AR glasses, I just don't quite get the appeal, but then I haven't looked much into it. I'm not even all that excited for VR until I experience it for myself with complete games.

 

[twobear]

I wonder how much the pre-launch DRM drama hurt the Xbox One's numbers versus the simple fact that it was initially priced at $100 more than the PS4.

Was there anything about the Xbone at launch that made it a more compelling buy than PS4?

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

57 million for Xbox One doesn't really sound realistic.

In what sense? Too much or too little?

I think it's fairly legit, if maybe a little high.

 

[Pathfinder]

Was there anything about the Xbone at launch that made it a more compelling buy than PS4?

Dead Rising 3 was honestly what swayed me at launch.

I love me a good zombie game.

 

[QuantumZebra]

We will not be giving up a 40% sales lead to our competition.

Deserves to be bumped up to member just for this

 

[bombshell]

And enMTW just got banned.

Dude has 15% of the posts in this thread, he was really going all-in.

 

[Condom]

MS really fucked up by not releasing in the whole of Europe, the Xbone also should have launched for the same price as PS4 (without Kinect).

The console itself is perfectly fine IMO and the exclusives pretty damn great.

 

[ZhugeEX]

I'd say Xbox One would be under 45 million whilst PS4 would be over 75 million by the end of 2018.

Here is a comparison of last gen for the same time frame as SA outlined:

Wii: ~95m
PS3: ~62m
360: ~51m

So Strategy Analytics are estimating 80m for PS4 and 57m for Xbox One. In other words they're expecting the Xbox One to outsell the 360 and almost match PS3 where as they're expecting similar sales to Wii, but lower, for the PS4.

 

[Dazza]

Ha Ha, yeah, I wanna go back and read those now

I'm really curious to see how Morpheus, and MS's AR glasses go.
I think both are good Ideas, but I could see Morpheus being more piratical for gaming.

You're totally right, can't wait to see Assassin's Creed Black Flag 2 in VR

 

[Verendus]

 

[TomShoe]

Fixed.

 

[truth411]

In what sense? Too much or too little?

I think it's fairly legit, if maybe a little high.

Way too much. Who's going to be buying them when there not even leading in their strongest markets?

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

.

 

[The Artisan]

40%? How much was it in 2014?