anothertech
Member
And this is why I continue to say, we don't know shit one way or the other for the last decade.So we can all operate from the facts, here are the actual numbers Microsoft have reported every year since Xbox started. I note what type of number it is, and then what other business groups are lumped into it (since Xbox is never by itself). Note that these official Microsoft financials don't precisely line up to Psychotext's previously-quoted post. I'm not sure the reason for mismatch, but I've linked all the Microsoft reports so you can check them yourself.
Note that when a platform is listed without further explanation--e.g. "Xbox 360" or "Windows"--the figures include all associated royalties, subscriptions, accessories, etc. Only if segments are specified is anything left out.
Second, "consumer software" refers to educational and productivity titles.
Finally, the original Microsoft Surface platform is listed under its revised PixelSense name, in order to avoid confusion with the new Surface line of devices.
Code:[b]Year ending Jun 30, Reported Type Including[/b] [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar03/alt/item_seven.htm"]2002[/url] -$ 874m Operating Income Xbox, PC/online games, consumer software and hardware, TV platform [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar03/alt/item_seven.htm"]2003[/url] -$ 924m Operating Income Xbox, PC/online games, consumer software and hardware, TV platform [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar06/staticversion/10k_fr_dis.html"]2004[/url] -$ 1.337b Operating Income Xbox, PC/online games, consumer software and hardware, TV platform [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar06/staticversion/10k_fr_dis.html"]2005[/url] -$ 485m Operating Income Xbox, PC/online games, consumer software and hardware, TV platform [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar06/staticversion/10k_fr_dis.html"]2006[/url] -$ 1.262b Operating Income Xbox/Xbox 360, PC/online games, consumer software and hardware, TV platform [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar09/10k_fr_dis.html"]2007[/url] -$ 1.898b Operating Income Xbox 360, PC/online games, Zune, consumer software and hardware, TV platform, mobile and embedded devices [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar09/10k_fr_dis.html"]2008[/url] $ 497m Operating Income Xbox 360, PC/online games, Zune, PixelSense, consumer software and hardware, TV platform, mobile and embedded devices, retail sales of Office and Windows [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar09/10k_fr_dis.html"]2009[/url] $ 169m Operating Income Xbox 360, PC/online games, Zune, PixelSense, consumer software and hardware, TV platform, mobile and embedded devices, retail sales of Office and Windows [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar12/financial-review/discussion-analysis/index.html"]2010[/url] $ 517m Operating Income Xbox 360, PC/online games, Zune, consumer software and hardware, TV platform, mobile and embedded devices, Windows Phone, retail sales of Office and Windows [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar12/financial-review/discussion-analysis/index.html"]2011[/url] $ 1.257b Operating Income Xbox 360, PC/online games, consumer software and hardware, TV platform, mobile and embedded devices, Windows Phone, Android patent licensing [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar12/financial-review/discussion-analysis/index.html"]2012[/url] $ 364m Operating Income Xbox 360, PC/online games, Surface, consumer software and hardware, TV platform, mobile and embedded devices, Windows Phone, Skype, Android patent licensing [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar13/financial-review/discussion-analysis/index.html"]2013[/url] $ 848m Operating Income Xbox 360, PC/online games, Surface, consumer software and hardware, TV platform, mobile and embedded devices, Windows Phone, Skype, Android patent licensing [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar15/index.html#discussion-analysis"]2014[/url] $19.724b Gross Margin Xbox 360/Xbox One, OEM and consumer Windows, consumer Office and Office 365, Windows Store, Bing, MS retail stores, Windows Phone (not hardware), Android patent licensing [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar15/index.html#discussion-analysis"]2015[/url] $17.680b Gross Margin Xbox 360/Xbox One, OEM and consumer Windows, consumer Office and Office 365, Windows Store, Bing, MS retail stores, Windows Phone (not hardware), Android patent licensing [url="https://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar16/index.html"]2016[/url] $ 6.142b Operating Income Xbox 360/Xbox One, Mojang, PC software and accessories, Surface, Windows Phone, Windows, Bing, MSN ads, all patent licensing [url="https://www.last10k.com/sec-filings/msft/0001564590-17-014900.htm#ITEM_7_MANAGEMENTS_DISCUSSION_ANALYSIS_F"]2017[/url] $ 8.288b Operating Income Xbox 360/Xbox One, Mojang, PC software and accessories, Surface, Windows Phone, Windows, Bing, MSN ads, all patent licensing
Note the primary takeaway: Microsoft have never provided operating income or gross margin figures for Xbox by itself, much less net profit numbers for the division. And recently there's much more consolidation of business segments, leading to even less clarity. Only Microsoft employees could know for sure how profitable the Xbox division is, whether all-time or in a specific period.
This means, paradoxically, that Paul Thurrott is in a much better position to know the facts than GAF members or even investors. He might have sources who really know, unlike the average person. Of course, his sources could also be mistaken or inventing things, so his statements are second-hand and should be evaluated cautiously.
Looking over what has been released, my personal estimation is that Xbox probably was profitable in FY 2011, 2012, and maybe 2013. These are the peak Kinect years, before Xbox One came along and ruined the party. Of course, I can't know if I'm right; but I do think this is the most plausible conclusion that can be drawn, given the narrowness of margins every year else, and the patterns of other divisions grouped with Xbox.
Thx for putting that work btw. Makes things simple.