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[Jacob]

There is a rather interesting essay posted on TORn; the Silmarillion as a film trilogy.

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2015/07/11/98552-an-essay-the-silmarillion-as-a-trilogy/

Some interesting points, but without a primary protagonist from the outset, not really viable. And again, people will ask, but where are the Hobbits? Why should I care about mystical elves and unapproachable humans?

IMO his only decent suggestion comes at the very end where he suggests looking to the MCU for inspiration. The outline he provides is not really a movie trilogy, and the idea for the third film in particular is absurd. But one could envision a Silmarillion meta-series sorta like the MCU where you have a series of films tracing the Princes of the Noldor through the Great Battles of Beleriand, a series (or multiple series) of films tracing the great heroes of the Edain, and potentially stand-alone films for other characters/groups, all of which interconnect and appear in each other. I honestly thing this would be a better approach than the HBO series option that gets floated a lot these days (thanks to GOT), since modern premium cable drama series often look for a core, driving plot, which The Silmarillion doesn't really have.

I mean, in my ideal world The Silmarillion wouldn't be adapted for the screen at all, but I see this as the least bad option were an adaptation inevitable (which thankfully does not seem to be the case).

 

[kess]

One does not simply walk into mordor.

Or fly, apparently...

 

[Turin]

Of course there's a dark lord residing in Pluto. Chilling with H.P. Lovecraft monsters.

 

[hunnies28]

So I'm super LTTP on this, but I never knew about the game War in the North existence. Was going to ask on the gaming side but I rather have someone on TolkienGAF say, is it good? It's not that expensive nowadays so I was thinking on buying it.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

IMO his only decent suggestion comes at the very end where he suggests looking to the MCU for inspiration. The outline he provides is not really a movie trilogy, and the idea for the third film in particular is absurd. But one could envision a Silmarillion meta-series sorta like the MCU where you have a series of films tracing the Princes of the Noldor through the Great Battles of Beleriand, a series (or multiple series) of films tracing the great heroes of the Edain, and potentially stand-alone films for other characters/groups, all of which interconnect and appear in each other. I honestly thing this would be a better approach than the HBO series option that gets floated a lot these days (thanks to GOT), since modern premium cable drama series often look for a core, driving plot, which The Silmarillion doesn't really have.

I mean, in my ideal world The Silmarillion wouldn't be adapted for the screen at all, but I see this as the least bad option were an adaptation inevitable (which thankfully does not seem to be the case).

In total agreement regarding not seeing it adapted. It's wholly unnecessary.

So I'm super LTTP on this, but I never knew about the game War in the North existence. Was going to ask on the gaming side but I rather have someone on TolkienGAF say, is it good? It's not that expensive nowadays so I was thinking on buying it.

I haven't played it personally, this is more Loxley's area of expertise. I do remember him been less than complementary towards it.

 

[Loxley]

So I'm super LTTP on this, but I never knew about the game War in the North existence. Was going to ask on the gaming side but I rather have someone on TolkienGAF say, is it good? It's not that expensive nowadays so I was thinking on buying it.

In total agreement regarding not seeing it adapted. It's wholly unnecessary.

I haven't played it personally, this is more Loxley's area of expertise. I do remember him been less than complementary towards it.

War in the North is a competent game, but some aspects of it's design are rather baffling. Even though you're always accompanied by two AI characters, you cannot level them up, choose their abilities or equipment, or switch to them on the fly. The only time you can switch characters is in-between levels. I guess the Dragon Age games had spoiled me on that sort of stuff. The combat is also fairly repetitive and never really becomes truly exciting.

The three main characters are the usual generic stand-ins for Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli, although the female elf character is sort of combination of Legolas and Arwen. None of them are particular interesting or noteworthy at all (a problem that seems to plague every game set in Middle-earth). In fact the most well-realized characters are probably the Eagles - who do actually talk. The game does have some novelty in the fact that you interact with a few characters from the fiction who were never in the films (like Elrohir and Elladan) or visit locations we never saw (like the Barrow-downs), but obviously that's not really enough to carry the whole experience.

I'd say it's worth checking out if you're a fan of the universe, just don't expect to have your mind blown. It's a pretty straight-forward experience.

 

[hunnies28]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I will check it out when it goes lower in price. One of my secret desires with the Hobbit trilogy was getting a game with a Dwarf as a protagonist, but now there's no chance of that happening.

 

[Fjordson]

Got the extended edition trilogy set from the Amazon Prime sale. Only $26. Woo! I haven't seen them all the way through in like 5-6 years at least. Also, this thing is loaded with extras. Really interested in seeing all the production / behind the scenes documentaries.

 

[Jacob]

The Extended Edition "Appendices" remain the gold standard for bonus features. Enjoy them! If you got the Blu-ray EE, you'll also have the Costa Botes documentaries on disc five for each film. They take a different approach than the Appendices but are equally fascinating in their own way.

 

[Staccat0]

Hey everyone! Haven't read the OT. Just here to ask why Frodo didn't ride the eagles?

Spoiler

 

[Turin]

I'm pretty sure the Eagles don't answer to anyone but Manwe.

Mordor has flying creatures too. It wouldn't be that easy.

 

[Fjordson]

The Extended Edition "Appendices" remain the gold standard for bonus features. Enjoy them! If you got the Blu-ray EE, you'll also have the Costa Botes documentaries on disc five for each film. They take a different approach than the Appendices but are equally fascinating in their own way.

Yep, that's the one I got. Looking forward to it!

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Those pesky eagles are blight on Tolkien discussion. But always amusing to discuss for those of us in the know as to Tolkien's intent with them.

 

[tryagainlater]

Weren't the Eagles Maiar? They could still be corrupted by the ring even if it is hard to imagine one squeezing it onto their talon. Wouldn't want to be on top of one of those things when it goes mad with power

I'm surprised Tolkien didn't come up with some reason why they didn't use them. The Council of Elrond chapters addresses basically every possibility of what to do with the ring, even dealing with 'ol Tom Bombadil. I mean, I don't see them as a problem in the story and it doesn't bother me. He was just very thorough so I wonder why he didn't address the issue.

 

[Turin]

As far as I know, the only time he eluded to the issue was after he sold the rights for the movies. He stressed that there should be restraint with the use of the Eagles.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Weren't the Eagles Maiar? They could still be corrupted by the ring even if it is hard to imagine one squeezing it onto their talon. Wouldn't want to be on top of one of those things when it goes mad with power

I'm surprised Tolkien didn't come up with some reason why they didn't use them. The Council of Elrond chapters addresses basically every possibility of what to do with the ring, even dealing with 'ol Tom Bombadil. I mean, I don't see them as a problem in the story and it doesn't bother me. He was just very thorough so I wonder why he didn't address the issue.

He left it to his readers to imagine the consequences of the eagles and the One. He did however address the issue in one of his letters. He didn't want to overuse them. His exact quote:

"The Eagles are a dangerous 'machine'. I have used them sparingly, and that is the absolute limit of their credibility and usefulness."

My view is that they were intelligent beings and descendants of the great eagles of Manwe, but they were still volatile and mostly insular beings and wouldn't have agreed to be used in such a manner.

They owed Gandalf a favour during the period in which The Hobbit is set, so that's why they were so keen to rescue him and the dwarves from the wolves and goblins.

Providing aid during the Battle of the Five Armies also served a purpose for them.

Earlier examples of aid go back to the First Age. Thorondor recovering Fingolfin's broken body from Melkor before he defiled it further as well the rescue of Beren and Luthien from the gates of Angband.

 

[Jacob]

Weren't the Eagles Maiar? They could still be corrupted by the ring even if it is hard to imagine one squeezing it onto their talon. Wouldn't want to be on top of one of those things when it goes mad with power

I'm surprised Tolkien didn't come up with some reason why they didn't use them. The Council of Elrond chapters addresses basically every possibility of what to do with the ring, even dealing with 'ol Tom Bombadil. I mean, I don't see them as a problem in the story and it doesn't bother me. He was just very thorough so I wonder why he didn't address the issue.

The Eagles of the First Age were probably Maiar, but the Eagles from The Hobbit and LOTR were most likely descendants of them (possibly with some normal Eagle heritage thrown in, possibly not). Sorta similar to the descendants of Melian, Ungoliant, or, (if you believe this particular origin account) some of the early Maiar in the service of Morgoth who took the form of Orcs.

In any event, the Eagles don't appear to have many restrictions placed on their involvement, because they can and do decide to help out on their own a number of times. In The Hobbit they help Gandalf to repay a favor, but they also decide to intervene in the Battle of the Five Armies because they dislike orcs. In LOTR, they intervene again and even appear to place themselves within pseudo-military hierarchies. They sign up as part of Radagast's anti-Sauron animal surveillance network and agree to transport messages to and from Isengard (and then rescue Gandalf cause it's the right thing to do). Furthermore, Gwaihir states that Galadriel gave him a "command" to bring the resurrected Gandalf from the peak of Zirakzigil to Lorien. This doesn't meant they were just beasts of burden, but like many of the other Free Peoples they appeared willing to do their part in the fight against Sauron when asked.

There are a number of practical reasons why the Eagle plan probably wouldn't have worked, and it would have gone against the Council of Elrond's stated emphasis on stealth and discretion, but I don't think the Eagles are so isolationist that no character would have even thought to ask them for help if flying the Ring in had been considered an otherwise viable option.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

The following is something that invariably comes up when discussing Tolkien with non-readers/fans; racism. Where do we all stand on this rather controversial discussion point?

Spirit of the times? That Tolkien was not in any way racist? That he was a racist? That he actually was rather progressive? The mythology for England/Northern Europe justification /excuse?

 

[Fathead]

Most historical figures were racist to a degree. Tolkien was likely not an exception. However he is likely far ahead of many of peers in being progressive about embracing other cultures.


Like every thing else about Tolkien, the answer is complex and shrouded in unexplained mysteries.

 

[Turin]

I'd be curious to hear what Christopher Tolkien has to say on the matter. I doubt anyone would ask him though.

I wonder if it just wasn't much on his mind.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

One thing's for sure (and it does tend to be overlooked); Tolkien was certainly progressive in regards to women's rights (his involvement in higher education for women particular).

Mentored by Joseph Wright, his support for his female students and their subsequent academic careers, his welcoming attitude towards women attending his tutorials and his great pride in his aunt who obtained a science degree; her career too. This in contrast with C.S Lewis who was rather dismissive of women in regards to higher education.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Michael Moorcock: “I think Tolkien was a crypto-fascist”

So, it is an irony that Moorcock remains largely unfilmed – or unfilmable – while the writer most responsible for turning fantasy into global entertainment, if posthumously, is his old antithesis J R R Tolkien. Moorcock liked Tolkien in person; he visited the old professor in Oxford and found him ­polite and personable. But it’s not hard to see Tolkien as a complacent, hierarchical force of Law in opposition to Moorcock’s free-ranging, morally complex Chaos. In 1978, Moorcock made the conflict explicit in a jeremiad against the old inkling entitled “Epic Pooh” (as in Winnie-the-Pooh), which accused Tolkien of propagating a ­sentimental Luddism while blithely promoting war.

“I think he’s a crypto-fascist,” says Moorcock, laughing. “In Tolkien, everyone’s in their place and happy to be there. We go there and back, to where we started. There’s no escape, nothing will ever change and nobody will ever break out of this well-­ordered world.” How does he feel about the triumph of Tolkienism and, subsequently, the political sword-and-sorcery epic Game of Thrones, in making fantasy arguably bigger than it has ever been?

“To me, it’s simple,” he says. “Fantasy became as bland as everything else in entertainment. To be a bestseller, you’ve got to rub the corners off. The more you can predict the emotional arc of a book, the more successful it will become.

“I do understand that Game of Thrones is different. It has its political dimensions; I’m very fond of the dwarf and I’m very pleased that George [R R Martin], who’s a good friend, has had such a huge success. But ultimately it’s a soap opera. In order to have success on that scale, you have to obey certain rules. I’ve had conversations with fantasy writers who are ambitious for bestseller status and I’ve had to ask them, ‘Yes, but do you want to have to write those sorts of books in order to get there?’”

Full interview here

 

[WanderingWind]

It's fall here and the mind wanders to Lothlórien.

"For in the autumn their leaves fall not, but turn to gold. Not till the spring and the new green opens do they fall, and then the boughs are laden with yellow flowers; and the floor of the wood is golden, and golden is the roof, and its pillars are of silver, for the bark of the trees is smooth and grey."

I will never understand people who say Tolkien was a poor writer. If that passage doesn't bring you into the world, then I submit that you are lacking in the stuff of which souls are made.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

It's fall here and the mind wanders to Lothlórien.

"For in the autumn their leaves fall not, but turn to gold. Not till the spring and the new green opens do they fall, and then the boughs are laden with yellow flowers; and the floor of the wood is golden, and golden is the roof, and its pillars are of silver, for the bark of the trees is smooth and grey."

I will never understand people who say Tolkien was a poor writer. If that passage doesn't bring you into the world, then I submit that you are lacking in the stuff of which souls are made.

He certainly had a way with words.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Bloodstock highlights: Tolkien art

Mordor Triptych

The Designs of Melkor



http://www.theguardian.com/music/ga...ghlights-tolkien-triptychs-album-art-pictures


Tolkien's inspiration on Heavy Metal bands especially is an interesting and pleasant phenomenon.

 

[Jacob]

Is that Terry Pratchett front and center in the crowd in the first image?

 

[fallout]

Tolkien's inspiration on Heavy Metal bands especially is an interesting and pleasant phenomenon.

Unsurprisingly, much of it gravitates toward the darker imagery and the forces of evil. One of my favourite black metal albums, In the Nightside Eclipse, has this artwork for a cover:

From Wikipedia: The album cover was drawn by "Necrolord", also known as Kristian Wåhlin, depicting a host of orcs on route to Minas Morgul.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Hobbit hole may be built in Suffolk

Target of £50,000 set for Poddit Hole Holidays to build authentic Lord of the Rings Middle Earth hobbit holiday home in Suffolk.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/11760429/Hobbit-hole-to-be-built-in-Suffolk.html

Legal action will be taken by the Tolkien Estate regarding nomenclature usage and other breaches if the couple persist.

 

[Turin]

The Summoning is a Tolkien inspired black metal band I enjoy.

Bauglir

Flammifer

Land of the Dead

And I adore this video and music made by YouTube user GilGaladAmbient. Ungoliant of Avathar

Hobbit hole may be built in Suffolk

Target of £50,000 set for Poddit Hole Holidays to build authentic Lord of the Rings Middle Earth hobbit holiday home in Suffolk.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/11760429/Hobbit-hole-to-be-built-in-Suffolk.html

Legal action will be taken by the Tolkien Estate regarding nomenclature usage and other breaches if the couple persist.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

The Summoning is a Tolkien inspired black metal band I enjoy.

Bauglir

Flammifer

Land of the Dead

And I adore this video and music made by YouTube user GilGaladAmbient. Ungoliant of Avathar

Seriously. People are so inspired by his creations that they build entire houses, and the family feels a need to sue. Of course, it's a bit more iffy if there's a commercial aspect to it.

I've been watching a lot of Grand Designs, and sometimes people build really neat things. There was a guy who built a wooden octagonal house centered around a reclaimed oak tree which was repurposed as a staircase. He did mention that he wanted a hobbit feeling to it.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

The Summoning is a Tolkien inspired black metal band I enjoy.

Bauglir

Flammifer

Land of the Dead

And I adore this video and music made by YouTube user GilGaladAmbient. Ungoliant of Avathar

Seriously. People are so inspired by his creations that they build entire houses, and the family feels a need to sue. Of course, it's a bit more iffy if there's a commercial aspect to it.

I've been watching a lot of Grand Designs, and sometimes people build really neat things. There was a guy who built a wooden octagonal house centered around a reclaimed oak tree which was repurposed as a staircase. He did mention that he wanted a hobbit feeling to it.

It is a shame really, but to be fair to the Estate, Warner Bros and Middle-earth enterprises have also threatened legal action against the couple. You know you're in trouble when the Tolkien triumvirate come after you.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11494169

 

[WanderingWind]

Tolkien reading from the Hobbit. Holy hell, I'd make this my first audio book ever if a full recording existed.

https://soundcloud.com/brainpicker/jrr-tolkien-read-from-the-hobbit

EDIT: That couple surely knows they couldn't name a rental property they hope to make profit off from after a licensed IP. They could just call it a "Halfling Home/Hole" and they'd both be in the clear, and still draw the type of people who would pay to stay there. They're being stubborn for no reason. No sympathy.

 

[Turin]

I love his Gollum voice.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

He certainly had a unique voice, but having conversed with a few non-native english speakers, I can see why his voice recordings and videos can be confounding at times.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

This looks interesting and going to Sheffield also means visiting Loxley Valley which is always a pleasure.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

George R.R. Martin: Here's where Tolkien failed

"You see that at the end of the ['Lord of the Rings'] books, when Sauron has been defeated and Aragorn is king," Martin told the Advance. "It's easy to type, 'he ruled wisely and well,' but what does that constitute?"

"What was his tax policy? How did the economy function? What about the class system?"

"The orcs," he continued. "There are still tens and thousands of orcs at the end of 'Lord of the Rings.' Did he pursue a policy of genocide toward them? Or did he reach out and try to educate them and bring them into the mainstream and civilize them? We never get answers to any of these questions. We just get 'he ruled wisely and well.'"

http://www.silive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/08/george_rr_martin_heres_where_t.html

He has put forward these criticisms before, but to open up the discussion once more; do you agree with him? Do you think The New Shadow was an attempt to address these issues (Tolkien been aware of them himself)? Should Tolkien have included an epilogue dealing with such issues or included the epilogue that he had written during the drafting phrase?

 

[butalala]

People criticize Tolkien for going into too much detail when he describes scenery already. I can't imagine how they'd respond to summaries about the political policies of King Elessar at the end of Return of the King. "He ruled wisely and well." Seems appropriate for something at the end of a novel. Now, if Tolkien had included this kind of stuff in The New Shadow, I would have gobbled it up.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Martin needs to show some damn respect, in my humble opinion. Don't throw stones in glass houses that have been under construction for 20 years.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

So I just finished reading the Children of Hurin and was kind of surprised to read something that dark from Tolkien. It was definitely worth the read.

 

[Liljagare]

Tolkien always put me to sleep.

Stephen R. Donaldson, imho, dont' miss out on his Covenant books. Hopes he manages to finish the last one before he croaks..

Nom, Stoneheart Foamfollower, Bannor the bloodguard, dang, those characters kick the living daylights out of almost all characters.. think he also described the perfect dance if the fairies, and Vain????

 

[Jacob]

Martin needs to show some damn respect, in my humble opinion. Don't throw stones in glass houses that have been under construction for 20 years.

Martin shows a lot of respect towards Tolkien. Describing these comments as "his real feelings" on the matter is just shameless, dishonest sensationalism by the author of this article. One can be respectful and acknowledge ones artistic debts (as Martin has, many times) while still offering criticism. Though in this case, I don't think it's a very "sticky" criticism, since it largely boils down to a difference in approach between the two works.

 

[Turin]

I think what Tolkien did mostly worked. I've alluded to my frustration about the orcs before.

Martin's most frequent criticism of Tolkien is the resurrection of Gandalf. I can see his point that the character might have become even more of a legend but I liked how it suggested more about the nature of a wizard and what/where they come from.

 

[hunnies28]

George R.R. Martin: Here's where Tolkien failed

http://www.silive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/08/george_rr_martin_heres_where_t.html

He has put forward these criticisms before, but to open up the discussion once more; do you agree with him? Do you think The New Shadow was an attempt to address these issues (Tolkien been aware of them himself)? Should Tolkien have included an epilogue dealing with such issues or included the epilogue that he had written during the drafting phrase?

To be fair, we also don't know

Spoiler

at least I don't

how the economy of the rest of Middle Earth works. I mean, we know dwarves trade in metals and all that but we don't know the specifics of the economy. Likewise, we are elves expected to pay rent? Taxes? Does an elven lord has need of such things?

Somebody will probably school me on these matters, I guess my point is that Tolkien really didn't focus much on this did he? Seems really odd calling him out for this particular aspect of the tale (not saying it's wrong to do so) but well, it had been a long tale by that point, I guess ending it by saying he was a good king was his way of concluding (by this point, isn't all of that part of the fourth age anyway? )said story. As with much of anything regarding with ME, time was the main factor why he could not write more, right?

 

[Jigorath]

Martin needs to show some damn respect, in my humble opinion. Don't throw stones in glass houses that have been under construction for 20 years.

Eh? Martin has praised Tolkien many many times. He's a massive fan of his work. It's just criticism, there's nothing wrong with it.

Back on topic, I don't know if we needed an answer to "what happened to the orcs?". I just assumed they went back to doing whatever they were doing before Sauron came to power.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Eh? Martin has praised Tolkien many many times. He's a massive fan of his work. It's just criticism, there's nothing wrong with it.

Back on topic, I don't know if we needed an answer to "what happened to the orcs?". I just assumed they went back to doing whatever they were doing before Sauron came to power.

Yeah that's true, it's the way the article presents it I think.

For the orcs, I believe it's been said they would have become a much less effective fighting force without Sauron/Saruman to guide them.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Generally, the orcs are rather weak-minded so unless there's a Bolg type to take charge, they would probably scatter and eventually die off. I'm assuming previously conquered peoples would happily thin them out or use them as slaves, so they don't have anywhere to go even if they leave Mordor. Now there's a racism discussion for you.

It's actually pretty sad. Yes, they're created as mostly evil to begin with but it's not really their fault. Orcs are still mammals, right? They would still be around for quite some time, even without a guiding hand. Could a benign leader ever want and try to lead them to good?

Another question remains - would Mordor ever be settled again (by men) or is it literally a wasteland?

 

[Loxley]

Martin shows a lot of respect towards Tolkien. Describing these comments as "his real feelings" on the matter is just shameless, dishonest sensationalism by the author of this article. One can be respectful and acknowledge ones artistic debts (as Martin has, many times) while still offering criticism. Though in this case, I don't think it's a very "sticky" criticism, since it largely boils down to a difference in approach between the two works.

Pretty much my feelings exactly. Martin has never been shy about vocalizing the issues he has with Tolkien's approach to world building versus his own, but he's also very reverent of Tolkien and The Lord of the Rings.

So I just finished reading the Children of Hurin and was kind of surprised to read something that dark from Tolkien. It was definitely worth the read.

That's awesome, Húrin is basically a Greek tragedy in Tolkien form, which is why I think it's so interesting. Fun fact: I read The Hobbit for the first time after completing Húrin. To say the tonal shift was jarring would be putting it lightly, I it took me a while to appreciate The Hobbit as a result.

This looks interesting and going to Sheffield also means visiting Loxley Valley which is always a pleasure.

Once again I find myself immensely jealous of you, Dantès Someone needs to come to Philly and preach the gospel of Tolkien so we can host things like this. Maybe I can somehow convince the Franklin Institute that a Tolkien exhibit would be worthwhile...

 

[WanderingWind]

Hm. I'm planning my first trip to Britain in September. I want to spend a couple of days in London, but I want to see more of the country. Sheffield isn't too far away.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Hm. I'm planning my first trip to Britain in September. I want to spend a couple of days in London, but I want to see more of the country. Sheffield isn't too far away.

It's a nice enough city, with the Peak District National Park not too far away, which is certainly something to consider in regards to your itinerary.

Also, depending on your schedule, the Tolkien Society's annual Oxonmoot event is taking place in Oxford in September:

http://www.tolkiensociety.org/events/oxonmoot-2015/

And of course, Oxford is home to many other Tolkien related things; the Bodleian Library, The Eagle & Child pub, Wolvercote Cemetery etc.

Regarding London; you don't need me to recommend the British Museum, it's probably already on your itinerary. If so, you're in for a treat, as there are two new exhibitions opening in September:

Celts: art and identity

Drawing in silver and gold: Leonardo to Jasper Johns


Some museum recommendations for London:

Leighton House Museum

Hunterian Museum

Sir John Soane's Museum

The Wallace Collection


Enjoy your time here.

 

[WanderingWind]

If I thought it possible, I'd immigrate there in a heartbeat. I'll look into Oxford vs. Sheffield. I do appreciate it.