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[Loxley]

(Part 1 continued)

Is the Shire supposed to represent England?

There is no hint that the Shire was in any sense supposed to be the country now called England in an ancient state. On the other hand, there is plainly a very strong resemblance between the Shire and the rural England of about a century ago.

More precisely, the Shire plainly could not be England in any literal sense: England is an island, and even changes in "the shape of all lands" (Fellowship of the Ring) is insufficient to explain such a discrepancy (especially since even the westernmost part of the Shire was some 200 miles from the Sea). Nevertheless, the Shire was more exactly based on England than any other part of Middle-earth was based on any part of our world: the climate, place-names, flora and fauna, terrain, food, customs, and the inhabitants themselves, were all English. In effect the Shire was an idealized version of the rural England of Tolkien's childhood. Some of his comments on the matter were:

[The Shire] is in fact more or less a Warwickshire village of about the period of the Diamond Jubilee ...
Letters, 230 (#178)

But, of course, if we drop the 'fiction' of long ago, 'The Shire' is based on rural England and not any other country in the world... [Later in the same letter he implied that the Shire was "an imaginary mirror" of England.
Letters, 250 (#190)

There is no special reference to England in the 'Shire' -- except of course that as an Englishman brought up in an 'almost rural' village of Warwickshire on the edge of the prosperous bourgeoisie of Birmingham (about the time of the Diamond Jubilee!) I take my models like anyone else -- from such 'life' as I know.
Letters, 235 (#181)

See also Tom Shippey’s Road to Middle-earth, pages 31-33 for a fascinating suggestion that certain components of Tolkien's early philological studies may have contributed to his later conception of the Shire. Shippey has also suggested that Tolkien's motivation in changing Gandalf's supper request in chapter 1 of The Hobbit from "cold chicken and tomatoes" in the first edition to "cold chicken and pickles" in the revised edition was linguistic: that to Tolkien's extraordinarily sensitive ear "tomato" sounded out of place in a country that was a mirror of English, since tomato only entered the language in the sixteenth century and moreover originally came from some Caribbean language. Likewise, tobacco, used in The Hobbit, was changed to "pipeweed", and "potatoes" were usually spoken of only by Sam, who called them "taters"

Finally, great care must be taken not to confound the idea of the Shire's having been based on England with a concept found in Tolkien's earliest writings, that Tol Eressea (Elvenhome) eventually became England. This appeared during his early work on the Book of Lost Tales (which eventually evolved into the Silmarillion). Very probably it had been supplanted even before he stopped work on the Lost Tales (1920) (Book of Lost Tales I, pages 22-27). In any case, it had long since been abandoned by the time LoTR was begun in 1937, and plays no part in the 'history' of Middle-earth as presented in The Lord of the Rings, The Silmarillion and The Hobbit.

 

[BaBaRaRa]

Splendid.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

Elves incite explorations of artistic creativity and the fragility of art in a changing world. The Huorns and Ents speak for nature against the depredations of the other races and are certainly a fitting nemesis for often discussed iron fist of industrialisation. Men are the most variable of Tolkien’s races and through them he investigates weakness, love and mortality. There is no moral polarisation of men in Middle-earth, not only are many Numenoreans corruptible, but in The Two Towers, Sam even doubts the ‘evil’ motives of a slain Haradrim warrior, wondering “what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home.” An adaptation of this line was used in The Two Towers film; spoken by Faramir.

Thus we move onto Orcs (I place all varieties under this word) who expand on the consequences of tyranny. The mass production of hatred and the limiting of individual choice. Orcs are recognisably human and very little do they do that is outside the realm of human behaviour. Their actions throughout the mythos reinforce the Orcs’ kinship with humanity. Orcs are indeed depicted as ‘ugly’, but while their looks can be seen as an external metaphor for an internal condition, these are no more a fantasy characteristic than is Elven beauty. We can see ourselves idealised in the Elves. We see our shadow, the unadmitted, the worst side of human character in the vile but depressingly human behaviour of the Orcs and are thus forced to recognise it. Race is inconsequential, the exploration of the human condition at the fore.

I liken this section to have been influenced, in part, by Jungian archetypes. We have the ultimate archetypes being represented here: The Shadow, the Self, and the Animus/Anima. Elves are effeminate, displaying cross-gender interests in terms of artistic expression and physical abilities. Orcs, as well as many other figures in ME, are The Shadow; the dark side of humanity and being that Orcs are corrupted Elves, the dichotomy between the Self and Shadow become more apparent.

Interestingly enough, Tolkien's closest friend, C.S. Lewis "avows that he is 'enchanted' by Jung, and has, on occasion, 'slipped into' a Jungian manner of criticism". It isn't unlikely, then, that Tolkien was influenced in some part by the psychoanalytics of the time.

 

[bengraven]

Someone asked about Children of Hurin above.

The book version is better edited, but the versions you read in The Silmarillion are more essential, I believe, because you get more prologue leading up to the events and you get a more extended ending. A few characters' fates and a little reflection on Hurin and his sister's lives take place in the proceeding chapter of The Sil.

Imagine if the Lord of the Rings film started (sans prologue) with Gandalf showing up in his "is it secret? Is it safe?" scene, sending Sam and Frodo on their journey. And ended with them being rescued by the eagles.

These all sum up what it is about Tolkien that I love so much. In general, it's the ridiculous world-building. Tolkien takes the time to go into so much detail that the Legendarium feels more tangible than any other fantasy universe I've come across.

You do feel a part of the world when you read it, maybe more so than the majority of epic fantasy I read today. Maybe Martin, Robb, Rothfuss today, but still only Martin puts the level of detail into his world. All three make you feel like you can smell the old texts by the flickering candle light, or feel the damp air sinking into your bones as you try and sleep with a rough wool blanket under the branches of a tree draped in moonlight. But only Tolkien can make you feel that sense of dread of the strange shapeless face of the statue just a few feet from your blanket. Only he can make a tomb feel like it's truly old, lived in an eternity ago and left empty and almost alive with emptiness and dread. And then feel the warmth of a hearth and tables full of buttery and sugary goodies and thick strong chairs with soft seats and the pleasant odor of a sizzling pipe.

My favorite chapters as I mentioned a few days ago are the darker ones where the mystery and timelessness become dread, but also the cozy scenes. I love the Old Forest, the Downs, Mirkwood, Moria, the Marshes, but also unexpected company, the 111th birthday party, Beorn's house, Rivendell, The Prancy Pony.

Growing up in the rainy, snowy plains in an old creaking house that whispered in the winds, I think I grew to love the idea of a cozy fire, a good book and protection from the harsh weather and foggy world outside. That's Tolkien to me as well.

Speaking of which, and off topic, but:

He gets criticized by people like Mieville or Wolfe for making "cozy fantasy" and I'm not going to say these men who are much more mature, creative, and intelligent than I am wrong. But I believe they're being dismissive.

Tolkien has some of the darkest concepts in fiction. While yes, most of his people make it home alive and others die epic deaths worthy of song, he does in fact drag his characters through the proverbial marshes of trauma and stress. To say that most of them had PTSD in the end would be disservice. This isn't cozy - this was war and men died. And it's not just death, but corruption, ruin, decay. Things that are more adult.

Maybe the Hobbit was some Epic Pooh or Sesame Street Beowulf, but the Lord of the Rings is a dark place with adult themes.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I liken this section to have been influenced, in part, by Jungian archetypes. We have the ultimate archetypes being represented here: The Shadow, the Self, and the Animus/Anima. Elves are effeminate, displaying cross-gender interests in terms of artistic expression and physical abilities. Orcs, as well as many other figures in ME, are The Shadow; the dark side of humanity and being that Orcs are corrupted Elves, the dichotomy between the Self and Shadow become more apparent.

Interestingly enough, Tolkien's closest friend, C.S. Lewis "avows that he is 'enchanted' by Jung, and has, on occasion, 'slipped into' a Jungian manner of criticism". It isn't unlikely, then, that Tolkien was influenced in some part by the psychoanalytics of the time.

Not much is said by Tolkien himself in regards to the likes Jung, but yes, he was most certainly aware and took such concepts to mind.

Someone asked about Children of Hurin above.

The book version is better edited, but the versions you read in The Silmarillion are more essential, I believe, because you get more prologue leading up to the events and you get a more extended ending. A few characters' fates and a little reflection on Hurin and his sister's lives take place in the proceeding chapter of The Sil.

Imagine if the Lord of the Rings film started (sans prologue) with Gandalf showing up in his "is it secret? Is it safe?" scene, sending Sam and Frodo on their journey. And ended with them being rescued by the eagles.



You do feel a part of the world when you read it, maybe more so than the majority of epic fantasy I read today. Maybe Martin, Robb, Rothfuss today, but still only Martin puts the level of detail into his world. All three make you feel like you can smell the old texts by the flickering candle light, or feel the damp air sinking into your bones as you try and sleep with a rough wool blanket under the branches of a tree draped in moonlight. But only Tolkien can make you feel that sense of dread of the strange shapeless face of the statue just a few feet from your blanket. Only he can make a tomb feel like it's truly old, lived in an eternity ago and left empty and almost alive with emptiness and dread. And then feel the warmth of a hearth and tables full of buttery and sugary goodies and thick strong chairs with soft seats and the pleasant odor of a sizzling pipe.

My favorite chapters as I mentioned a few days ago are the darker ones where the mystery and timelessness become dread, but also the cozy scenes. I love the Old Forest, the Downs, Mirkwood, Moria, the Marshes, but also unexpected company, the 111th birthday party, Beorn's house, Rivendell, The Prancy Pony.

Growing up in the rainy, snowy plains in an old creaking house that whispered in the winds, I think I grew to love the idea of a cozy fire, a good book and protection from the harsh weather and foggy world outside. That's Tolkien to me as well.

Speaking of which, and off topic, but:

He gets criticized by people like Mieville or Wolfe for making "cozy fantasy" and I'm not going to say these men who are much more mature, creative, and intelligent than I am wrong. But I believe they're being dismissive.

Tolkien has some of the darkest concepts in fiction. While yes, most of his people make it home alive and others die epic deaths worthy of song, he does in fact drag his characters through the proverbial marshes of trauma and stress. To say that most of them had PTSD in the end would be disservice. This isn't cozy - this was war and men died. And it's not just death, but corruption, ruin, decay. Things that are more adult.

Maybe the Hobbit was some Epic Pooh or Sesame Street Beowulf, but the Lord of the Rings is a dark place with adult themes.

The chapters of a darker tone encompass some of Tolkien's best writing in The Lord of the Rings. A horror story written by Tolkien is rather intriguing.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

The Hobbit to be translated into Hawaiian

Many nights over the last year, Keao NeSmith would return to his home on the Hawaiian island of Kauai and think about hobgoblins. Not because he was afraid of the evil fantasy creature, but because he was translating J.R.R. Tolkien’s “The Hobbit” into Hawaiian.

"I didn't even know what a hobgoblin is," NeSmith said of the process of becoming more familiar with Tolkien’s world. “We have a generic term that means ‘monster,’ but it’s too general.”

Eventually he scrapped the search for some match with “goblin” and went with a Hawaiianized form of “orc,” or “’oaka” — in which the apostrophe represents a glottal stop — an actual Hawaiian word that refers to the gaping jaws of a dog that’s about to bite. Thus a hobgoblin became nui ’oaka, or "big orc.”

He also had to think how to translate Tolkien’s “Eldar” (“elves” in English), which has no analogue in the Hawaiian tradition. “I didn’t know the difference between Santa’s elves and Keebler’s elves and came to find that Tolkien’s elves are very different,” he said. The closest matches in Hawaiian mythology were forest-dwelling creatures called the mū, but they are unsophisticated creatures who make screechy noises in the mountains. NeSmith decided to adapt the mū, which are like the Eldar in the sense that they’re shy and sing in a haunting way, and added “wao,” or “wilderness.” Now elves are mūwao.

Raised in Kekaha, Kauai, NeSmith spoke mostly English early on. Though Hawaiian was offered at the high school he attended on Oahu, he chose to study Japanese instead. After graduating, he went to live with his maternal grandmother, who only spoke to him in Hawaiian. He picked up a lot of the language, which he also studied at the University of Hawaii at Hilo, where he now teaches the language. He has a Ph.D. in applied linguistics, focusing on teaching language to adult learners. Projects like this one, he hopes, will help save the language from dying out.

He is a speaker of what he calls “neo-Hawaiian,” a dialect that arose among people who learn the language as a second language. It has different pronunciations, fewer idioms, and is written differently than traditional Hawaiian. NeSmith estimates that there are only about 300 people left who learned the traditional variety in childhood and continue to speak it. But there are between 3 and 4,000 younger people who have attended Hawaiian immersion elementary schools founded in the 1980s and are able to carry on a conversation and read materials in Hawaiian. “Ka Hopita,” he says, is for them.

...continued: here

Excerpts:

“Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare!”

“’Ā, no laila, e ka ’aihue! Honi wau iā ’oe a pā maila kou ea. Lohe au i kou hanu ’ana. Mai! E ki’i hou mai i kāu makana, ua nui ’ino nō!”

“Truly songs and tales fall utterly short of the reality, O Smaug the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities,” replied Bilbo.

“Ua ho’ohewahewa maoli nō nā mele me nā mo’olelo i ka ’oia’i’o, e Smaug, e ka Po’okela a me ka Haku o ka Luku ’ana,” i pane ai ’o Bilbo.

“I am the friend of bears and the guest of eagles. I am Ringwinner and Luckwearer; and I am Barrel-rider,” went on Bilbo beginning to be pleased with his riddling.

“’O wau ka hoaloha o nā pea a me ka mea kipa i nā ’aeto. ’O wau nei ’o Ka Mea Komo a me Ka Mea Laki; a ’o wau ’o Ka Mea Kau Palela,” a pēlā i ho’omau ai ’o Bilbo me ka ho’omaka pū e hau’oli i kona nane ’ana.

“That’s better!” said Smaug. “But don’t let your imagination run away with you!”

“’Ā, e aho kēlā!” wahi a Smaug. “Akā, mai ho’olalau i kou no’ono’o ’ana, ’eā!”

 

[BLAZER]

I can never get over how detailed this world is. Such an incredible mind is Tolkein!

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I can never get over how detailed this world is. Such an incredible mind is Tolkein!

Indeed. A master world-builder.

 

[tryagainlater]

The FAQ was a wonderful read. I especially enjoyed the section on Beowulf. I read the Seamus Heaney translation last year which I really liked and I finally saw where that melancholic tone I love so much in Tolkien's writings came from.

 

[Tizoc]

I mean...
How do you think they got it to be pocket-sized? :þ

lol I didn't expect it to have so many words TBH XD.
Ah well I'll grab one of the bigger editions in coming months

 

[Mego Thor]

The Hobbit to be translated into Hawaiian

He also had to think how to translate Tolkien’s “Eldar” (“elves” in English), which has no analogue in the Hawaiian tradition. “I didn’t know the difference between Santa’s elves and Keebler’s elves and came to find that Tolkien’s elves are very different,” he said.

I've known lots of folks who aren't Hawaiian and can't make this distinction either.

 

[Tizoc]

Would you say this map is outdated?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Would you say this map is outdated?

It's not outdated, just limited to one particular period of Arda and doesn't include other lands described (albeit in little detail) by Tolkien.

 

[Tizoc]

It's not outdated, just limited to one particular period of Arda and doesn't include other lands described (albeit in little detail) by Tolkien.

I see, reason I bring it up is because of the locations, I mean yeah they are far away but it makes the journey from The Shire til Mordor seem odd, what with all the major locations being so close to each other.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I see, reason I bring it up is because of the locations, I mean yeah they are far away but it makes the journey from The Shire til Mordor seem odd, what with all the major locations being so close to each other.

The scale is slightly off, but understandable given the artist's intention to fit everything in.

 

[Jacob]

The main problem with that map isn't the scale, but rather that the shape of the landmasses is all wrong.

 

[bengraven]

chapters of a darker tone encompass some of Tolkien's best writing in The Lord of the Rings. A horror story written by Tolkien is rather intriguing.

I know it's folly to get into his inspirations during his lifetime (and not the obvious inspiration of the classic tales and histories of Europe, etc).

But that said, I wonder how much of it was a product of his time, whether it was the rise of the pulp and fantasy genre (Howard, Lovecraft, noir, tales of "darkest Africa", etc) or the current events (WWI, rise of fascism, height of the age of exploration, etc).

I know he claimed to have no inspiration, but it's hard to not read something like Mirkwood or Moria and not think of the tales of men cutting down vines in dark jungles, dodging cannibalistic ape men, with evil temples that contain ageless, living but dead mysteries in them. I know I mentioned noir and Lovecraft, but I suppose anyone can feel a sense of dread in their lives at what could be hiding in the dark shadows of a temple or an alleyway.

Maybe just a coincidence that he was writing his legendarium while Howard Phillips's friends were creating a world of ancient evil and I'm just the latest of thousands of people who read too much into them.

"...and he was in the trenches and obviously the trenches could be caves and the enemies firing at him could be orcs's voices echoing through the dark, bringing the same feeling of dread and imminent dang...ugh...I'm going back to the Shire and getting a drink..."

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I know it's folly to get into his inspirations during his lifetime (and not the obvious inspiration of the classic tales and histories of Europe, etc).

But that said, I wonder how much of it was a product of his time, whether it was the rise of the pulp and fantasy genre (Howard, Lovecraft, noir, tales of "darkest Africa", etc) or the current events (WWI, rise of fascism, height of the age of exploration, etc).

I know he claimed to have no inspiration, but it's hard to not read something like Mirkwood or Moria and not think of the tales of men cutting down vines in dark jungles, dodging cannibalistic ape men, with evil temples that contain ageless, living but dead mysteries in them. I know I mentioned noir and Lovecraft, but I suppose anyone can feel a sense of dread in their lives at what could be hiding in the dark shadows of a temple or an alleyway.

Maybe just a coincidence that he was writing his legendarium while Howard Phillips's friends were creating a world of ancient evil and I'm just the latest of thousands of people who read too much into them.

"...and he was in the trenches and obviously the trenches could be caves and the enemies firing at him could be orcs's voices echoing through the dark, bringing the same feeling of dread and imminent dang...ugh...I'm going back to the Shire and getting a drink..."

It's debatable, but certainly possible that it was a combination of factors, with the more obvious ones inspiring/influencing him and others via his subconscious. But Tolkien himself made it clear that he wasn't much of a reader of fiction, especially in his latter years, barring a few exceptions (Mary Renault's historical fiction). He would have been aware of Lovecraft and co and gothic fiction in general, whether he was well versed in the works of such authors is unclear.

 

[terrisus]

Such lissom limbs no more shall run
upon the earth, beneath the sun;
so fair a maid no more shall be
from dawn to dusk, from sun to sea.
Her robe was blue as summer skies,
but grey as evening were her eyes;
her mantle sewn with lilies fair,
but dark as shadow was her hair.
Her feet were swift as bird on wing,
her laughter lighter than the spring;
the slender willow, the bowing reed,
the fragrance of a flowering mead,
the light upon the leaves of trees,
the voice of water, more than these
her beauty was and blissfulness,
her glory and her loveliness;
and her the king more dear did prize
than hand or heart or light of eyes.


I love the Lay of Leithian

Spoiler

And, darn, did childhood me ever get some unrealistic hopes for what love would be like =(

 

[Turin]

Some fan art I found of Melkor descending to Arda.

http://digital-fantasy.deviantart.com/art/melkor-517120328

 

[BaBaRaRa]

On Tom:

"Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made the first paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving.... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless before the Dark Lord (Tom referring to Melkor here) came from Outside".

I've never considered before just who would Tom consider the "Big People", and in turn the "Little People".

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Such lissom limbs no more shall run
upon the earth, beneath the sun;
so fair a maid no more shall be
from dawn to dusk, from sun to sea.
Her robe was blue as summer skies,
but grey as evening were her eyes;
her mantle sewn with lilies fair,
but dark as shadow was her hair.
Her feet were swift as bird on wing,
her laughter lighter than the spring;
the slender willow, the bowing reed,
the fragrance of a flowering mead,
the light upon the leaves of trees,
the voice of water, more than these
her beauty was and blissfulness,
her glory and her loveliness;
and her the king more dear did prize
than hand or heart or light of eyes.


I love the Lay of Leithian

Spoiler

And, darn, did childhood me ever get some unrealistic hopes for what love would be like =(

Beautiful indeed and straight from his heart. Edith was surely at the forefront of his mind when writing his poetry.

Some fan art I found of Melkor descending to Arda.

http://digital-fantasy.deviantart.com/art/melkor-517120328

That captures Melkor's raw might quite well.

On Tom:



I've never considered before just who would Tom consider the "Big People", and in turn the "Little People".

It can be construed to mean the following; men and hobbits as the more obvious answer or the Ainur and the Children of Iluvatar (the Ainur of course being greater, thus 'bigger', in spirit than the Children).

 

[Mego Thor]

"Big People" are the Ents. Tom making the first paths before they arrive shows how incredibly old he is.

"Little People" are the Hobbits, since Tom lives close to the Shire.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

Just finished "In the House of Tom Bombadil" last night. Tom still is an enigma. However, it isn't hard to determine that his origins lie in the beginnings of Middle Earth. Either that or he and the River-daughter have gotten cabin fever!

I really liked Frodo addressing the fact that Tom just happened to come upon them purely by chance when they were trying to save Merry and Pippin. Even Tom himself, knowing that they were in the Forest, did not know that he would find them at that exact moment and save them from their predicament.

Lastly, what are we supposed to infer when the Hobbits are falling asleep but are having nightmares in Tom's house before waking up, realizing they're safe, and falling back to sleep? All except for Sam, who's genuineness is already being marked upon this early in the trilogy.

 

[bengraven]

It's debatable, but certainly possible that it was a combination of factors, with the more obvious ones inspiring/influencing him and others via his subconscious. But Tolkien himself made it clear that he wasn't much of a reader of fiction, especially in his latter years, barring a few exceptions (Mary Renault's historical fiction). He would have been aware of Lovecraft and co and gothic fiction in general, whether he was well versed in the works of such authors is unclear.

Legit did not know any of that. Thanks.

 

[terrisus]

Beautiful indeed and straight from his heart. Edith was surely at the forefront of his mind when writing his poetry.

Indeed.

I've always found how Beren is human, and far below her stature, while Lúthien is elven, described in great beauty and wonder, and practically unobtainable for someone like him, to be quite significant.

And Beren's "quest to the ends of the world" - as it were - to be able to be with her, and Lúthien's sacrifice to be with him, is very moving.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Just finished "In the House of Tom Bombadil" last night. Tom still is an enigma. However, it isn't hard to determine that his origins lie in the beginnings of Middle Earth. Either that or he and the River-daughter have gotten cabin fever!

I really liked Frodo addressing the fact that Tom just happened to come upon them purely by chance when they were trying to save Merry and Pippin. Even Tom himself, knowing that they were in the Forest, did not know that he would find them at that exact moment and save them from their predicament.

Lastly, what are we supposed to infer when the Hobbits are falling asleep but are having nightmares in Tom's house before waking up, realizing they're safe, and falling back to sleep? All except for Sam, who's genuineness is already being marked upon this early in the trilogy.

Tolkien and dreams is certainly one of the more fascinating topics of discussion. He himself had a recurring dream/nightmare involving 'Atlantis' and a great wave which he "bequeathed" to Faramir and was one of the inspirations for the Downfall of Númenor.

In terms of the nightmares they can be seen as portends. Sam's lack of nightmare though can possibly be attributed to various things: innocence, purity of heart, that it was a sign that he was indeed the true 'hero' of the tale, but these are mostly unsatisfactory explanations. Another possibility is that he hadn't yet suffered any real trauma compared to the other hobbits, and wasn't carrying the burden of Frodo, thus was able to sleep more soundly.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

My BotFA blu-ray just came in the mail and I put it on my shelf with all my other Middle-Earth movies:

I like seeing them all together, lined up like that.

 

[tryagainlater]

How are the bluray versions of LOTR? I feel safe assuming The Hobbit blurays are gorgeous at least.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

How are the bluray versions of LOTR? I feel safe assuming The Hobbit blurays are gorgeous at least.

The extended editions are well regarded, although there is an issue with the Fellowship of the Ring regarding a green tint that bothers some people.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

How are the bluray versions of LOTR? I feel safe assuming The Hobbit blurays are gorgeous at least.

I'm not the best person to ask. I have a terrible eye for that kind of stuff. They look fine to me, but I remember seeing some complaints about them before. Like the colors in certain scenes were off or something.

 

[Loxley]

How are the bluray versions of LOTR? I feel safe assuming The Hobbit blurays are gorgeous at least.

Generally speaking the EE's look great snce they were remastered from the original 2K film. Jackson and his cinematographer Andrew Lesnie personally oversaw the EE transfer as well. They went back and made a good amount of changes to the color-timing for the EE blurays that aren't present in the theatrical cuts. For whatever reason, there's a very slight green tint in Fellowship . I didn't even notice it until it was pointed out to me, and this is coming from someone who's most-watched film is FOTR. A minor stink was made about it when the EE blu-rays were first released but it never bothered me.

Most of the time to the new colors across the trilogy are improvements in my opinion, everything looks richer. Rivendell in particular benefits from the new color-timing. The "perpetual sunset" look from the original film - which had always been a bit overkill - has been pulled back a bit and now more of the colors shine through.

 

[Ruruja]

Do the LOTR EE blu-rays have all the extras my DVD ones do? I am tempted to replace them but I'm sure I read somewhere the blu-rays don't have all the extras.

 

[terrisus]

So, hey, today I got my first Blu-rays (since I just got a PS4 a couple of weeks ago).
The (standard) Lord of the Rings set

I've never actually seen any of the new Lord of the Rings movies.
Maybe I'll actually watch them.

Spoiler

(Probably not. Movies bore me. But I figured I should get something just because)

Image quality really doesn't matter to me though, so not really too exciting.
Frankly, even on a 40" 1080p television, I don't notice much of a difference between Blu-ray and

Spoiler

VHS

>.>

 

[Kyleripman]

Indeed.

I've always found how Beren is human, and far below her stature, while Lúthien is elven, described in great beauty and wonder, and practically unobtainable for someone like him, to be quite significant.

And Beren's "quest to the ends of the world" - as it were - to be able to be with her, and Lúthien's sacrifice to be with him, is very moving.

Reading "Letters," it was surprising to see how Tolkien was at first a little tentative about this grave inscription. I think it's rather lovely.

Great FAQ posts, guys, just catching up on them now.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Do the LOTR EE blu-rays have all the extras my DVD ones do? I am tempted to replace them but I'm sure I read somewhere the blu-rays don't have all the extras.

The extras are the same. The best option is to buy the extended editions separately and swap the Blu-ray discs with the DVD discs in the original extended edition release. The packaging is much nicer.

 

[Jacob]

Do the LOTR EE blu-rays have all the extras my DVD ones do? I am tempted to replace them but I'm sure I read somewhere the blu-rays don't have all the extras.

The EE Blu-rays have all the extras that were included in the original DVD version, although the extras are still on DVDs and are not in HD quality. However, the EE Blu-ray also includes the Costa Botes-directed documentaries originally included in the Limited Edition DVD box set. These were the originally planned companion documentaries for the trilogy and they provide a really nice companion to the excellent "Appendices" docs by taking a more ground-level, unstructured approach.

 

[HK-47]

Dantes, I dont know how often to get asked this, but what other writers or works to you think are most similar to LotR?

 

[Dastardly Jerks]

Just wanna share this shirt I bought that I'm absolutely in adoration with.

(Black, but can be in either that or grey)

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Dantes, I dont know how often to get asked this, but what other writers or works to you think are most similar to LotR?

In terms of writers, the following are similar without being overly derivative:

• R.A. Salvatore (The Dark Elf Trilogy, The Icewind Dale Trilogy, The DemonWars Saga etc.)
• Christopher Paolini (The Inheritance Cycle)
• Cecilia Dart-Thornton (The Bitterbynde Trilogy and others)
• Guy Gavriel Kay (Tigana and others. He also worked on The Silmarillion with Christopher Tolkien)
• David Eddings (The Belgariad, The Mallorean)
• Lloyd Alexander (The Chronicles of Prydain is a series that draws from a source material that also influenced Tolkien)

The following either predate Tolkien fantasy or were written concurrently.

• Lord Dunsany (Pre-Tolkien fantasy and an influence on Tolkien himself)
• George MacDonald (The Princess and the Goblin, Phantastes: A Faerie Romance for Men and Women, also pre-Tolkien)
• E. R. Eddison (The Worm Ouroboros, Zimiamvian Trilogy)

 

[East Lake]

Generally speaking the EE's look great snce they were remastered from the original 2K film. Jackson and his cinematographer Andrew Lesnie personally oversaw the EE transfer as well. They went back and made a good amount of changes to the color-timing for the EE blurays that aren't present in the theatrical cuts. For whatever reason, there's a very slight green tint in Fellowship . I didn't even notice it until it was pointed out to me, and this is coming from someone who's most-watched film is FOTR. A minor stink was made about it when the EE blu-rays were first released but it never bothered me.

Most of the time to the new colors across the trilogy are improvements in my opinion, everything looks richer. Rivendell in particular benefits from the new color-timing. The "perpetual sunset" look from the original film - which had always been a bit overkill - has been pulled back a bit and now more of the colors shine through.

I think the EE looks awful in that honestly but thanks for posting. I like the relative neutrality of the film they used where I think it's actually the range of colors that seems to be crushed in the EE. Colors that were honed by decades of Kodak engineering, which then gets replaced by some clown playing with sliders in Davinci Resolve.

Watched Harry Potter and the half blood prince tonight and it had similar issues.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Today is Tolkien Reading Day

Today is the Tolkien Society’s international Tolkien Reading Day. The theme this year is friendship.

To celebrate Tolkien Reading Day 2015, they've put together a series of videos featuring various Tolkien scholars (and two Tolkien Society trustees) reading some of their favourite passages on the theme of friendship:

John Garth

We start by looking at Tolkien’s own friendships. In the foreword to the second edition of The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien wrote that “by 1918 all but one of my close friends were dead.” One of those close friends killed during the First World War was G. B. Smith, a core member of the T.C.B.S. (the small group of friends from King Edward’s School, Birmingham) and a Lieutenant in the Lancashire Fusiliers. Here John Garth – author of Tolkien and the Great War - reads a moving extract from a letter from G. B. Smith to Tolkien.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJF3SFojm1g


Dr Mark Atherton

While Professor of Anglo-Saxon at Pembroke College, Oxford, Tolkien made several profound contributions to Beowulf studies. He wrote the famous ‘Monsters and the Critics’ essay, and even completed a prose translation of the whole poem (published in 2014). Here Dr Mark Atherton – author of There and Back Again: J. R. R. Tolkien and the Origins of The Hobbit – reads the section from Tolkien’s translation where the word “friend” is used and then reads part of the same passage in Old English.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMbVOCsiUBY


Daniel Helen

A trustee of the Tolkien Society. The relationship between Bilbo Baggins and Thorin Oakenshield is one of The Hobbit‘s most complex. Here Daniel Helen – a trustee of the Tolkien Society – reads a passage from “The Return Journey” in which the two characters reconcile and part in friendship before Thorin’s death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fMnpnXjSJ8


Verne Walker

Here Verne Walker – the Tolkien Society’s Education Secretary – reads from “Mount Doom” in The Return of the King. In this passage Frodo and Sam come near to the end of their quest to destroy the Ring. The date is 25th March, a day on which Frodo and Sam’s friendship reached its zenith. Without each other and without their friendship the quest would have failed. Today we celebrate all of Tolkien’s friendships as epitomised here by Frodo and Sam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDMtTBeLhio


Dr Dimitra Fimi

Here Dr Dimitra Fimi – author of Tolkien, Race and Cultural History: From Fairies to Hobbits – reads a passage from “A Journey in the Dark” in The Fellowship of the Ring. When the Fellowship reach the West-door of Moria they find the Doors of Durin inscribed “Ennyn Durin Aran Moria. Pedo Mellon a Minno.“. When translated properly, these words reveal that to open the doors one must say “mellon“, the Sindarin word for “friend”. By giving such authority and significance to the word, Tolkien emphasises just how important friendship is in Middle-earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StKOz4aYMGc


Dr Corey Olsen

Leaf by Niggle is arguably one of Tolkien’s most philosophical and (dare it be mentioned) allegorical works. Here Dr Corey Olsen – President of the Mythgard Institute – reads a couple of passages to highlight the relationship between Niggle and his neighbour Parish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjAHNSKfvA8


Dr Stuart D. Lee

Here Dr Stuart D. Lee – editor of A Companion to J. R. R. Tolkien - reads an extract from “Many Partings” in The Return of the King. In this passage we see the ending of the Fellowship of the Ring. It is the poignant farewell of good friends and the affirmation of lasting friendships and possible meetings in the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8GNZf207cM

Tolkien Reading Day 2015: How well do you know The Lord Of The Rings? Quiz

Do you know your Glamdring from your Gúthwinë, Andúril from the Anduin, Minas Tirith from Minus Morgul? And if we know our stuff like we think we do only those who have read the books should come out on top…

Link

 

[Mego Thor]

Dantes, I dont know how often to get asked this, but what other writers or works to you think are most similar to LotR?

Whatever you do, don't go into Lord Foul's Bane thinking it will be similar to Tolkien. The Golden Age me made that mistake, and it did not end well.

Tolkien Reading Day 2015: How well do you know The Lord Of The Rings? Quiz

Do you know your Glamdring from your Gúthwinë, Andúril from the Anduin, Minas Tirith from Minus Morgul? And if we know our stuff like we think we do only those who have read the books should come out on top…

Link

Got 9 out of 10 on the quiz. I missed No. 3 because I wasn't quite sure which name of the sword they were wanting.

 

[Jigorath]

Question: Was Middle-Earth ever in any real danger in LOTR? Like if Sauron ended up victorious would the Valar just interfere like they did with Melkor?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Question: Was Middle-Earth ever in any real danger in LOTR? Like if Sauron ended up victorious would the Valar just interfere like they did with Melkor?

There is a distinction between the intentions of Melkor and Sauron; Melkor wanted complete destruction of Middle-earth, all life extinguished. Thus the intervention of the Valar was far more important. Sauron wanted dominion of Middle-earth as per his inner most desires. He had not yet become the nihilist that Melkor was.

The Valar had imposed a directive of non-interference after their various failures, one which they would have upheld even if Sauron had taken possession of the One and routed all remaining resistance. They would not have abandoned Middle-earth and its remaining peoples, but continued to send council via their agents to inspire an eventual uprising.

 

[terrisus]

Today is Tolkien Reading Day

Well hey, that's nifty, I didn't even know there was a "Tolkien Reading Day."
Now I do :þ


Also:

 

[Loxley]

Somebody edited the Misty Mountains theme into the scene in BOTFA where Thorin and the dwarves charge out of Erebor at the orc army - and it's great. Makes me once again mourn it's absence post-AUJ.

Today is Tolkien Reading Day

Today is the Tolkien Society’s international Tolkien Reading Day. The theme this year is friendship.

To celebrate Tolkien Reading Day 2015, they've put together a series of videos featuring various Tolkien scholars (and two Tolkien Society trustees) reading some of their favourite passages on the theme of friendship

My girlfriend recently gifted me fresh copies of the History of The Lord of the Rings, which is great since my old copies have become pretty beaten-up. So tonight is all about 'The Return of the Shadow' Not particularly friendship related, but hey, I'm just jazzed to read through these again.

 

[Any Questions]

This thread is awesome. It's great to pop in now and then and catch up with events. Thanks for the knowledge bomb!

 

[terrisus]

My girlfriend recently gifted me fresh copies of the History of The Lord of the Rings

You're going to marry her now, right? :þ


On a related note, sometimes I feel like my wedding ring is one of the lesser rings, and my wife's ring is The One Ring >.>

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

Somebody edited the Misty Mountains theme into the scene in BOTFA where Thorin and the dwarves charge out of Erebor at the orc army - and it's great. Makes me once again mourn it's absence post-AUJ.

That was really good. Feel like there could be a bit more buildup to it, though. Like, have the version sung by the dwarves playing as the orcs are lining up, and then transition into the more triumphant version like in that video.