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[dark10x]

All I can say is that, from this point on, I'm done with games featuring loot boxes. Will no longer purchase them as the type of design they tend to result in just doesn't work for me. It's clear that loot boxes influence game design and ultimately result in a more tedious experience.

That's the biggest issue for me - loot boxes absolutely negatively impact the games in which they are featured.

 

[Micael]

While probably not particularly effective, the gaming industry has more than proven it is completely unable to self regulate, so yeah it is just a matter of time until governments have to step in, and honestly it is well deserved considering they were given an opportunity and all they did was scummy shit.
Besides is not as if lootboxes are actually needed, given that the games that benefit from it the most are the ones racking in just absolutely insane amounts of cash (as tends to be the case with dlc and season passes).

 

[Wowfunhappy]

The ESRB rating doesn't quite feel like the best place for this, although I would certainly appreciate having micro-transactions listed on the back of the box. I suppose you could make an argument that it's exploitive...

 

[Arkeband]

Is the ERSB going to listen to a 40 minute YouTube video?

 

[LordRaptor]

Online gambling and bingo sites are having increasingly substantial laws put in place on them through pressure from agencies such as Gamcare.

The extent on "increasingly substantial laws" is the same smallprint that you see for alcohol and financial service advertisements.
Meanwhile it seems some new online casino or app based gambling site is getting heavy TV ad placement every week.

 

[OmegaFax]

While we're on the topic of gambling, Twitch ought to consider not hosting Poker or any other major league gambling event or at least enforce "for mature audiences" on them.

 

[Scuffed]

Very very good idea.

 

[Nick_C]

It's not quite the same thing for a game to portray gambling (even if that means gambling with fictional money you get in-game), than for it to actually feature real gambling (with real money or a currency that can be purchased with it).

Follow the links that I provided. They have both simulated gambling as well as real gambling ratings.

 

[Masonica33]

Yesssssssss. Yesssssssssssssss. YEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS.

Man, TotalBiscuit is such a don.

 

[nynt9]

All I can say is that, from this point on, I'm done with games featuring loot boxes. Will no longer purchase them as the type of design they tend to result in just doesn't work for me. It's clear that loot boxes influence game design and ultimately result in a more tedious experience.

That's the biggest issue for me - loot boxes absolutely negatively impact the games in which they are featured.

How do loot boxes negatively impact overwatch?

 

[Willxc123]

Government regulation over games that has loot boxes would set a bad precedent

The ESRB is an independent organization, this wouldn't be government regulation.

 

[le.phat]

Who are the people ruining themselves on loot boxes? I keep seeing this pearl clutching argument and no examples are ever produced. Most people spending big money on loot boxes (streamers) are usually aware they are idiots for doing so.

https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomHearts/comments/4ltofb/khux_the_dangers_of_gacha_games_in_japan_read/

https://www.serkantoto.com/2016/03/14/gacha-monetization-japan/

https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/freemium-games-exposed/



I'm not sure what you're looking for, but the internet is full of articles on the damaging nature of whale-hunting.

 

[franklyshankly]

Not gonna happen.

Well the EU regulating it is different than the ESRB using it in ratings.

But I still agree with the point of this post. Governments don't care to regulate this as gambling because it is not gambling. If you can't win anything of value then there is nothing to regulate. You are free to waste your money on crap all you like.

 

[Daffy Duck]

All I can say is that, from this point on, I'm done with games featuring loot boxes. Will no longer purchase them as the type of design they tend to result in just doesn't work for me. It's clear that loot boxes influence game design and ultimately result in a more tedious experience.

That's the biggest issue for me - loot boxes absolutely negatively impact the games in which they are featured.

What about games like PUBG/CS:GO?

They are, to me, the best way of doing these things.

I do think there is a scale of loot box systems.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Just got done watching the video. Agree 100%.

 

[Xist2inspire]

I simply can't bring myself to muster up the kind of vitriol others do when it comes to loot boxes and the like, but games really should do a better job of making their customers aware of microtransactions, if no more than simply labeling them "Contains light gambling elements."

On a more humorous note, I just love how gaming's back to a "kid's hobby" all of a sudden. With any other potential issue things are totally fine, but once something comes up that irritates the core, suddenly it's all "Won't somebody think of the children."

 

[le.phat]

Do people not realise that government regulation amounts to things that ensure that the game is not rigged for people who want to gamble, not to stop people gambling.
Sure, in some places in the world gambling is illegal. But in most places it isn't.

This is OT anyway because actual gambling is not the same thing as lootboxes.

I did not realize this, no. But then again, TBC, just like a lot of people in this thread, isn't vouching to outright ban lootboxes, but to create awareness and shield off minors. Because I'm pretty sure that gambling regulation has a say on WHO gets to gamble and who doesn't.

 

[KojiKnight]

Government regulation over games that has loot boxes would set a bad precedent

Not all games, just those that have actual gambling in them. I don't just think it's perfectly fair, I think it would be a huge deterrent to developers. Do you really want the extra tape of a government regulatory watchdog? It might be worth it for some financially, but the majority would likely shy away with that and stick to their season passes.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[LordRaptor]

I did not realize this, no. But then again, TBC, just like a lot of people in this thread, isn't vouching to outright ban lootboxes, but to create awareness and shield off minors. Because I'm pretty sure that gambling regulation has a say on WHO gets to gamble and who doesn't.

There are age limits on being allowed to gamble.
But there are age limits slapped on the boxart of these games anyway.

and again - lootcrates are not gambling, so games with lootcrates would remain unaffected.

 

[Aiustis]

I don't think they should.
It's not gambling it's meaningless digital garbage.
People should know better than to save their credit card information on devices that other people are going to be using.

 

[10k]

Despite disliking him as a person this is a very good idea.

 

[Handy Fake]

The extent on "increasingly substantial laws" is the same smallprint that you see for alcohol and financial service advertisements.
Meanwhile it seems some new online casino or app based gambling site is getting heavy TV ad placement every week.

Gamcare does put pressure on the social responsibility side within sites. The list of DO NOTs is growing bigger and bigger.

True about that explosion of new gambling sites mind. I don't suppose there are laws stopping them advertising, but there will be laws in place telling them what they can and can't do.

But I think this increase is symptomatic of the problem and will bring the whole issue to a head. They're vultures, like Cash4Gold sites and Payday Loan companies before them. When people cottoned on to the moneyspinners these were and they popped up all over, it became an issue that was dealt with. Maybe not well (that's down to opinion) but it did happen.

Again, it's opinion but I would be very surprised if there wasn't a big push (probably during the Brexit fiasco to take all our minds off that particular clusterfuck) to clamp down on such advertising. Hopefully there'll be enough knowledge out there to put lootboxes under the spotlight too.

 

[Goldfishking]

That's the biggest issue for me - loot boxes absolutely negatively impact the games in which they are featured.

For me I have never played a game (except some F2P mobile games) that I have enjoyed less because of loot boxes. This huge sudden outcry of negativity for something that has been in games for years is very confusing to me.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Yesssssssss. Yesssssssssssssss. YEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS.

Man, TotalBiscuit is such a don.

My eyes just rolled so far into the back of my head I'm afraid they're never going to come back.

 

[jelly]

Well the EU regulating it is different than the ESRB using it in ratings.

But I still agree with the point of this post. Governments don't care to regulate this as gambling because it is not gambling. If you can't win anything of value then there is nothing to regulate. You are free to waste your money on crap all you like.

Well you then go for the manipulation, chance and addiction angle. Even though there is no return in value, those aspects are very important. Publishers are hiring people to exploit and manipulate the way people think to make them spend more, they aren't telling people the odds. That is dangerous for kids let alone adults. I don't believe no return in value is an out for the industry.

 

[nynt9]

Well you then go for the manipulation, chance and addiction angle. Even though there is no return in value, those aspects are very important. Publishers are hiring people to exploit and manipulate the way people think to make them spend more, they aren't telling people the odds. That is dangerous for kids let alone adults. I don't believe no return in value is an out for the industry.

Video game companies have always tried to exploit and manipulate people. Heck, social media companies also hire psychologists to keep people maximally invested. Literally every business tries to do this.

 

[le.phat]

There are age limits on being allowed to gamble.
But there are age limits slapped on the boxart of these games anyway.

and again - lootcrates are not gambling, so games with lootcrates would remain unaffected.

Battlefront 2 is rated PEGI16. Do you agree with this rating?

 

[amdb00mer]

All I can say is that, from this point on, I'm done with games featuring loot boxes. Will no longer purchase them as the type of design they tend to result in just doesn't work for me. It's clear that loot boxes influence game design and ultimately result in a more tedious experience.

That's the biggest issue for me - loot boxes absolutely negatively impact the games in which they are featured.

How do loot boxes negatively impact overwatch?

I would say that is extreme. Just like nynt9 stated, in Overwatch and Paladins they really don't, as they are all cosmetic. I think the better point would be to say "games that have loot boxes that can augment or unbalance game mechanics should be avoided".

I still think Forza 7 having them would have been less of an issue if they had not changed the VIP feature and removed the credit boost for adjusting driver assist and sticking cars behind tiers. That actually made me just as frustrated if not more than the credit changes.

I think most of the current outrage is from Star Wars Battlefront 2's pay to win model. Somebody needs to loudly voice to Disney that EA is taking their licensed property and turning it into a gambling scenario with these loot crates. If people pressure Disney then maybe they, in turn, will pressure EA to change it.

 

[LordRaptor]

Again, it's opinion but I would be very surprised if there wasn't a big push (probably during the Brexit fiasco to take all our minds off that particular clusterfuck) to clamp down on such advertising. Hopefully there'll be enough knowledge out there to put lootboxes under the spotlight too.

There is no culture of moral outrage at gambling in the UK.
Whether its the Ladbrokes on every high street, the National Lottery at primetime viewing on BBC1 on saturdays until very recently, scratchcards at every newsagent till, slot machines in every pub, church fete tombolas, or Bingo halls.
The puritans who have a problem with gambling on a fundamental moral level mostly fucked off in the Mayflower.

e:

Battlefront 2 is rated PEGI16. Do you agree with this rating?

Sure, why not?

 

[Snoopycat]

How do loot boxes negatively impact overwatch?

I'll tell you how they negatively impact my experience in Overwatch. I would like a couple of the new Halloween skins. I only have 2000 credits so I can't afford to get any of them. The only thing I can do is either buy a bunch of lootboxes and hope I'll get at least one, or grind for them. It's a miserable experience that Blizzard could stop instantly by just putting the skins up for sale on the PS store.

 

[le.phat]

There is no culture of moral outrage at gambling in the UK.
Whether its the Ladbrokes on every high street, the National Lottery at primetime viewing on BBC1 on saturdays until very recently, scratchcards at every newsagent till, slot machines in every pub, church fete tombolas, or Bingo halls.
The puritans who have a problem with gambling on a fundamental moral level mostly fucked off in the Mayflower.

e:

Sure, why not?

Because the game heavily pushes lootboxes. Would you agree to letting 16-year-olds into a casino and partake?

 

[Phu]

There is no culture of moral outrage at gambling in the UK.
Whether its the Ladbrokes on every high street, the National Lottery at primetime viewing on BBC1 on saturdays until very recently, scratchcards at every newsagent till, slot machines in every pub, church fete tombolas, or Bingo halls.
The puritans who have a problem with gambling on a fundamental moral level mostly fucked off in the Mayflower.

 

[LordRaptor]

Because the game heavily pushes lootboxes. Would you agree to letting 16-year-olds into a casino and partake?

Again; they're not the same thing, so no matter how many times people say they're the same thing they still remain different things.

And yeah, if a 16 year old is considered old enough legally to join the army and die in combat for their country, or have sex and potentially get HIV and ruin their life, or get / get someone else pregnant and potentially ruin their life, buying a lottery ticket or being able to watch porn don't seem like things that are so much worse they have to wait 2 years. But that is entirely OT.

 

[MadMod]

It would be good if he actually requested a comment from ESRB about the subject. Or anyone else in that matter. Good idea, or at least add some sign on the packaging of it containing such things.

 

[synce]

On paper it sounds good but publishers will just sleaze their way out of it, like putting in a real money option via patch

 

[amdb00mer]

I'll tell you how they negatively impact my experience in Overwatch. I would like a couple of the new Halloween skins. I only have 2000 credits so I can't afford to get any of them. The only thing I can do is either buy a bunch of lootboxes and hope I'll get at least one, or grind for them. It's a miserable experience that Blizzard could stop instantly by just putting the skins up for sale on the PS store.

Eh, I can't completely agree with this. Just because you don't have a really cool skin does not stop you from being able to play and compete at a fair level, in Overwatch and Paladins at least. I do agree though that the skins should be available as straight up purchases and in loot crates for those that may not have the money to buy it outright. Battleborn actually did this with their premium skins, but the outright purchase prices were extremely high. In-game credits could be used, but they really did require some serious grinding to get without opening the wallet.

On the same subject, if a dev/publisher is going to let you buy something straight up, let us do it with real money directly and not force us to overspend on special currency to buy it. Example of this would be some dev may have items you can buy with 150 gold, but you can't just buy the needed 150 gold, you have to buy a minimum of 1000 gold for $20 even though you may not use the rest of the gold or even want it.

 

[R_thanatos]

Does games costing more than $60 base sound like a good thing? Game development has gotten more expensive, companies have to make money some way. They know consumers don't want a higher shelf tag so they try things like lootboxes and DLCs to makeup the costs. We keep shitting on every alternative they come up with, what do you think the end-game is here for the industry?

But they still have games that are only complete if you have the season pass so in the end the games are +90$

They already have a solution for the higher dev costs and they still want more with loot boxes.
No thanks

 

[nekkid]

Wait a second...I suggested this in the other thread!

It’s the right move, to be honest. I don’t believe it’s technically gambling because there’s no potential cash return, but semantics aside it’s something that you need to be aware of the financial implications when you start buying - because it’s so easy to sink cash into and potentially addictive.

This should be a requirement for games on mobile that do the same, too.

 

[Mugaaz]

Government regulation over games that has loot boxes would set a bad precedent

Disagree 100%. Would set a great precedent in the same way gov't regulating smoking ads that targeted children.

 

[coughlanio]

Where do you stop though? Prevent minors from playing Hearthstone? Dota 2? Hell, even physical games like Magic: The Gathering?

 

[DESTROYA]

Great idea, screw loot boxes. If I want to gamble I'll go yo the casino but bringing the idea to games is just wrong. I don't support any games with loot boxes, I'd rather have the option of straight up buying whatever item I want.

 

[WHM-6R]

All I can say is that, from this point on, I'm done with games featuring loot boxes. Will no longer purchase them as the type of design they tend to result in just doesn't work for me. It's clear that loot boxes influence game design and ultimately result in a more tedious experience.

That's the biggest issue for me - loot boxes absolutely negatively impact the games in which they are featured.

I get that, its not a poorly thought out stance. I'd argue though that having played a fair amount of it that the boxes in FM7 are not irresponsibly done and have not negatively impacted my experience with the game at all.

 

[LordRaptor]

Where do you stop though? Prevent minors from playing Hearthstone? Dota 2? Hell, even physical games like Magic: The Gathering?

I mean, people shouldn't be letting minors play anything unsupervised with unfettered access to a credit card available.

 

[Momentary]

I agree with this and parents should also have the ability to lock out purchases with authentication.

 

[Uno Venova]

Where do you stop though? Prevent minors from playing Hearthstone? Dota 2? Hell, even physical games like Magic: The Gathering?

Not playing, just buying on their own.

 

[dose]

All I can say is that, from this point on, I'm done with games featuring loot boxes. Will no longer purchase them as the type of design they tend to result in just doesn't work for me. It's clear that loot boxes influence game design and ultimately result in a more tedious experience.

That's the biggest issue for me - loot boxes absolutely negatively impact the games in which they are featured.

Totally this. There is no positive gameplay impact with loot boxes, the player doesn't actually benefit in any way.

 

[nekkid]

It should be pointed out that this could only affect paid-for loot boxes, not ones earned through in-game currency.

 

[mikelarry]

Great idea I can get behind that. I really hope something comes from this as these shady business practices are getting out of hand in thw triple A space

 

[jelly]

Video game companies have always tried to exploit and manipulate people. Heck, social media companies also hire psychologists to keep people maximally invested. Literally every business tries to do this.

True but this isn't just engagement or advertising, they are carefully crafting the lootbox system and manipulating people to make them spend more money and they aren't transparent about it at all with regards to odds. The way they sell crates, currency in uneven values or whatever is shady too.