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[lil smoke]

personally, there's nothing I hate more in racing games than trying to race in the dark. I hate hate hate it. it's awful.

Kinda agree.

I hate all the stuff they currently have like dust or this foggy blur in the air, windshield shine fx, vehicle exhaust, overkill sun flare. On some tracks in multiplayer, I can't even see anything. I think it's cool, but if I can't even see what's going on it defeats the purpose. I'm not that big on weather, but it would be very cool on a Horizon 2.

Alls I need in FM5 are my cars and tracks and racing, to focus on those 3 things only would be great. imo.

 

[cakely]

We knew dynamic lighting wasn't trivial to implement. All the Forza courses so far have featured pre-baked lighting: the sun literally never moves an inch even during the longest races. If it's right in your face during one particular turn of Laguna Seca (I'm looking at you, Forza 3) it will exactly in the same spot during every lap.

I'm not holding this against Forza, it's simply how it's currently done, and it doesn't detract from a great series. It's also one of the things that may make DriveClub stand out against the competition, and hopefully sets it apart as a next-generation racing game.

 

[Swauny Jones]

This just shows the difference between both Forza and Gran Turismo. Gran Turismo is a true driver simulation for the console while Forza basically is a dumbed down version for car fans that aren't really deep into cars like true car enthusiasts. Forza is meant to be more forgiven in the controls to cater more towards the casual audience.

 

[Jomjom]

He said when they do something they go all in, then why is the lighting the way it is? That's not really going all in...

this is a simulator - are real races raced in the dark?

Haven't you watched Fast and the Furious? Basically all the races are in the dark. Doesn't get realer than that!

 

[HokieJoe]

In that case the physics engine is still built for a dynamic temperature. Dynamic does not necessarily mean changing continuously, but could mean having multiple conditions.

So the engine could be designed to account for say 5 levels of temperatures based on what you manually set it at. If Forza is designed from the ground up to only handle one set, then making it support multiple sets is indeed a reworking of the engine.

Same with weather. Even if you just have dry and wet, two set points of humidity, if the engine is pre-baked based on dry, then the engine needs re-working to accommodate the other state.

Excellent explanation, thanks. I should've stated previously that I have no expectation that night racing could be patched in. I just hope they add it for Forza 6.

 

[evolution]

This is almost like when kaz would discuss implementing damage in GT. The next Forza will probably come out in 2015 so maybe they can get it done by then. Night racing is standard now, no excuse.

Too bad MS axed bizarre, they cut the wrong studio. They were way ahead when it came to things like this.

 

[HokieJoe]

This just shows the difference between both Forza and Gran Turismo. Gran Turismo is a true driver simulation for the console while Forza basically is a dumbed down version for car fans that aren't really deep into cars like true car enthusiasts. Forza is meant to be more forgiven in the controls to cater more towards the casual audience.

Yay team!

 

[elektrixx]

As long as Gran Turismo doesn't have rewind it'll never be better than Forza.

 

[NoPiece]

How long as "bespoke" been a buzzword in game development? I feel like in the last few months I have started it read it and hear it often. And wouldn't be easier just to say "new"?

 

[StudioTan]

How long as "bespoke" been a buzzword in game development? I feel like in the last few months I have started it read it and hear it often. And wouldn't be easier just to say "new"?

Bespoke doesn't mean new.

 

[AndyD]

This just shows the difference between both Forza and Gran Turismo. Gran Turismo is a true driver simulation for the console while Forza basically is a dumbed down version for car fans that aren't really deep into cars like true car enthusiasts. Forza is meant to be more forgiven in the controls to cater more towards the casual audience.

Oh no...

Excellent explanation, thanks. I should've stated previously that I have no expectation that night racing could be patched in. I just hope they add it for Forza 6.

Are people seriously asking for it to be patched in? It is such a clear huge step forward. Even for a new iteration, I think they would need more than 2 years to do something like that well without sacrificing other aspects of their games.

 

[Shaneus]

At the end it comes down to how driving feels.
Since Evolution Studios consists of guys from StudioLiverpool(Wipeout), Bizarre Creations(Project Gotham Racing) and of course Evolution(Motorstorm) I think they're pretty competent when its comes to racing games, but you never know.

They have guys from Studio Liverpool as well? Fuck, the wait to Feb. just got even HARDER.

 

[Chitown B]

This is almost like when kaz would discuss implementing damage in GT. The next Forza will probably come out in 2015 so maybe they can get it done by then. Night racing is standard now, no excuse.

Too bad MS axed bizarre, they cut the wrong studio. They were way ahead when it came to things like this.

I miss Bizarre I love Blur.

 

[Lazy Jones]

Change color of sky from blue to black, darken the image. There - you just added night racing.

 

[chubigans]

Night races in F6 revealed!

 

[jabuseika]

this is a simulator - are real races raced in the dark?

The highest level of motorsports, at night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onA_bGEgH4I

 

[Archaix]

Change color of sky from blue to black, darken the image. There - you just added night racing.

You've added night racing in such a lazy way that you may as well not bother. It would be an insult to do that in a sim racing game today.

 

[jabuseika]

If we wanted to make one of those tracks work with the added particles or projected shadows, and of course adding the physics to do something like night and wet, it means re-engaging those tracks.

...and that's why GT6 was not a launch title for the PS4, it took Polyphony how long to perfect night races on their PS3 engine?

GT7 won't be any time soon either, but you can bet it will have dynamic weather and day/night transition.

 

[Chitown B]

The highest level of motorsports, at night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onA_bGEgH4I

this doesn't really count as night, to me - the entire track is lit up with bright lights.

 

[jelly]

Night races in F6 revealed!

 

[Hitokiri03]

this doesn't really count as night, to me - the entire track is lit up with bright lights.

Try this one: http://youtu.be/dtNLy83u3Yo?t=2m41s

 

[AndyD]

this doesn't really count as night, to me - the entire track is lit up with bright lights.

It is lit up. But it is still nighttime, and the game engine would have to support those hundreds of light sources instead of just the sun.

Also, I learned this by going to dusk and night races, the reality is a lot darker than the camera makes it appear. It is always lighter on camera. Shadows are always a lot deeper in person. They even showed it after one of the races on TV one time, they turned off the "filters" or whatever enhancements they use to show the raw image recorded and it is noticeably darker.

 

[Xanadu]

As long as Gran Turismo doesn't have rewind it'll never be better than Forza.

rewind is for babies

 

[Datafiend]

Night racing can be really cool. I do hope they it to F6. The night racing in Shift 2 and Dirt 3 were some of favorite races in those games.

 

[benzy]

Meanwhile at PD, the astronomy and moon surface has been simulated, but the sounds still need major work done. It seems night and weather to T10 is the engine sounds to PD.

 

[soultron]

Sounds a lot like Kazanori and damage modeling. i.e. excuses.

Because it's as easy as "flipping a switch," right?

It's nice to want things.

 

[Chumpion]

Taken in the context of retrofitting those things to FM5... he's right.

DG not lying in an interview? What is the world coming to? Did the evil alien beard parasite abandon its host or something?

 

[R3TRODYCE]

LOL

 

[Bgamer90]

It will be a BIG joke if nighttime racing & weather isn't in Forza 6. BIG.

 

[shadow101]

It will be a BIG joke if nighttime racing & weather isn't in Forza 6. BIG.

And some freaking AA. For the love on GOD!

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Meanwhile at PD, the astronomy and moon surface has been simulated, but the sounds still need major work done. It seems night and weather to T10 is the engine sounds to PD.

Oh wow, took me some time before i realized that was GT (looked for the semi-transparent logo)

 

[Majanew]

I really wish Dan would leave T10. He's holding FM back. Hell, with FM5, he just about killed the series. Can't stand him.

Hey Dan, I'll say something nice about you for 300 Tokens.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Because it's as easy as "flipping a switch," right?

It's nice to want things.

I don't think anyone thinks is a simple switch to flip in either case.

It's become quite laughable though that both of these "simulators" ignore major aspects of auto racing and cry its "too hard".

Plenty of other games have had day/night cycles damage, dynamic weather. Why is it impossible to do all of it?

I don't need ray traced headlamp beams, I want a visual approximation of driving at night.

I don't need a full crash test simulator, I want some sort of mechanical penalty for ramming the wall at 100mph. Give me a flat from rubbing wheels, reduced aero performance from breaking my wing. SOMETHING.

I don't need fluid dynamics puddle simulations, but variable grip and poor track conditions should absolutely be in the game.

 

[RawNuts]

I suppose it's better to wait for rain to be done right rather than them throwing it in just to add another bullet point on the features list. I can't stand games where the rain just amounts to pretty visuals and a "traction -30" variable.

Whenever Turn 10 tackles rain, I'm going to expect it to be damn good now. I want water pooling in low areas, hydroplaning, tracks dynamically drying based on elevation, the whole bit.

Don't care for night racing though; I always think of it as something positive before a game releases and then remember that I hate it when I'm actually playing it.

I don't think anyone thinks is a simple switch to flip in either case.

It's become quite laughable though that both of these "simulators" ignore major aspects of auto racing and cry its "too hard".

Plenty of other games have had day/night cycles damage, dynamic weather. Why is it impossible to do all of it?

I don't need ray traced headlamp beams, I want a visual approximation of driving at night.

I don't need a full crash test simulator, I want some sort of mechanical penalty for ramming the wall at 100mph. Give me a flat from rubbing wheels, reduced aero performance from breaking my wing. SOMETHING.

I don't need fluid dynamics puddle simulations, but variable grip and poor track conditions should absolutely be in the game.

NOPE.

Can't you see we shouldn't even have these things unless they're absolutely perfect? Remember that we're training future professional Le Mans drivers here, not gamers that want to have fun.
Forza 6 will only feature one car and one track, which will be a strip of pavement reproduced at 100% accuracy and WE'LL ALL BE HAPPY WITH IT SO DEAL WITH IT.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Yeah, that's disappointing to hear. Doesn't sound like FM 6 will any of that either. Project Cars which is also coming to PS4/XBone will have full day/night cycles and dynamic weather.

 

[Krilekk]

I could not care less for night races, they are the worst of any racer. I hate driving at night in real life, I don't need that abomination in simulations (unless it's a 24 hour race). Weather (or rain, nothing else makes sense) is a different story but I don't see it in Forza for this generation. They clearly made the choice to have shorter races, changing track conditions, time of day etc. don't make sense when all you do is race two or three laps. Same goes for pit stops. Yeah, it's great on paper to have all that and 20 lap multiplayer races - but the truth is all players will have long quit the race when it's finished. Except for the leader. It destroys the online community. Thus it's good that they do what they do. There are some quitters but not a lot. Seems like everybody is more or less ok with finishing in last place if the race only lasts five minutes.

I do feel it's a bit strange that last gen they said they didn't have the hardware power to do weather and the other things and now they say they don't have the man power to do those things good. Just tell us that it won't happen and be done with it. There's more important things, like different times of day for each track, shorter loading screens and more preloading in the background. Why do we have to sit in the lobby for 1.5 minutes only to be greeted with a loading screen lasting almost a minute afterwards?

 

[Alienous]

"We didn't do it because it's hard"

Maybe if you spent less time on micro-transactions

Spoiler

(I'm kidding)

Welp, pat yourself on the back for a job well done, sir.

 

[transformer]

This just shows the difference between both Forza and Gran Turismo. Gran Turismo is a true driver simulation for the console while Forza basically is a dumbed down version for car fans that aren't really deep into cars like true car enthusiasts. Forza is meant to be more forgiven in the controls to cater more towards the casual audience.

From a racing game perspective, forza has much more realistic AI, better tire modeling, better mechanical damage modeling, and has much more customization options in visuals and upgrades, and the cars actually sound like cars. But this is dumbed down for the casuals. Because destroying the car when they crash and breaking the transmission when they miss a shift, and not have catch up logic in the AI to help them win, etc. is not realistic at all and catering to the casual audience...

 

[ZoddGutts]

nvm

 

[gsrjedi]

Since these are supposed to be sims that reproduce real world driving, I'm fine with no weather unless it's actually going to be simulated weather. To me that means temperature - how does the air temperature affect a car's power output; how does it affect the track temperature; how does that affect the tire's ability to heat up and how long they last. Wind/aerodynamics - may not affect most cars, but more aerodynamic cars should be more susceptible to head & tail winds depending on the wind speed, potentially affecting your speed and braking points. Rain - should talk to the temperature and if it's cold enough should be snow or hail or whatever. If it's just rain, then water physics need to be involved. How much has it rained & for how long; where does the water go; is there a chance for puddling on certain sections of tracks? As well as water sitting on the cars, especially if stationary

That's what I'd want. To me, anything less is like Forza's current damage model. It doesn't really affect anything.

As for night racing, I think Turn 10 should send some people to work with Playground if Horizon 2 is going to have day/night cycles and build a lighting engine they can bring back to F6 at least. Hell I'd be cool with them using Horizon to beta test different weather effects while the mainline game builds the physics up.

 

[Tiago Leite]

Just for fun...

 

[ElementJJ]

Isn't the only reason it requires bespoke tracks is because they use baked lighting? So they literally have to change all assets to match lighting conditions.

If they had a dynamic lighting engine, overall graphics might be worse, but that would allow real time lighting transitions.

 

[Windom Earle]

Project Cars seems more and more like it's going to be better than Forza or GT. Hope they deliver an awesome console version.

And Assetto Corsa trumps them all. Best driving simulator I have ever played. And without any monthly fees or shady microtransactions. The game is still in the early access phase, but the physics are far ahead and it's gorgeous.

 

[Fried Food]

I don't understand this whole build seperate tracks for night and day. How about building a lighting model that just works when the light source is there and when the light source is at vary degrees above the horizon. Design a lighting system that revovles on there being an actual light source in the game world

 

[NeoGash]

Thanks Dan, at least you let us down early. Now I have another reason to not get an Xbox One and any more Forza's. This is an absolute f'ing joke, how can people excuse this?
Forza 2: No night racing or weather: Okay.....I suppose it is a new generation and all....I understand I supoose.......
Forza 3: No night racing or weather: Wait.....why is there still no night racing or weather? Wow, what have these guys been doing this wh- whoa, this game is pretty good. Still though, WTF is going on at Turn 10?
Forza 4: No night racing or weather: ........... -_-......Is this a f*&%ing joke? Seriously, where the funk is my night racing? Turn 10, WTF!!!! Okay, seriously, I have given up for now. No doubt you guys get it right for your next game which will be on next-gen hardware most likely and will blow us away with awesome everything. This game is still really good with better graphics, more tracks and awesome cars etc., but I am still pissed. Last chance.
Forza 5: No night racing or weather: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Someone, please kill me. This is too much and is just hilarious.

My predictions for Forza 6: Turn 10: We had...ummm...had other more important things to work on and so couldn't get night and weather in. I don't think gamers really want night and weather, they just think they do. This whole time we focused instead on letting you put customised McDonalds drive thru discount stickers on your windshield, which give you discounts on McDonalds decals to put on your cars, as well as REAL TIME discounts at all participating McDonalds restaurants (U.S.A only) through our Smartglass app. Unfortunately, the sticker itself doesn't cast a shadow in real time on the dashboard because we thought that that would be too resource intensive, and would negatively affect out 60FPS goal. Did I say 60FPS? 1080p? Yep, it's all in this brand new standard only just introduced in 2015, and it allows us to render the game 60 times over in one second as well as having 1080pajillion pixels. We love our community.

Love them. (Guys, please buy our game. We looove you, why don't u no dis?)

Sad day indeed. At least we can hope for other next-gen sim racers. (I still play Forza 4 today, but this is an absolute joke).

 

[vcc]

How long as "bespoke" been a buzzword in game development? I feel like in the last few months I have started it read it and hear it often. And wouldn't be easier just to say "new"?

Bespoke doesn't mean new. It's a fancy way of saying 'custom made'. It's a bit PR spinny. Forza uses lots of computational load compromises like pre-baked lighting, cardboard cutout crowds and other techniques to get to 1080p 60 fps. To make a wet track, a raining track, or a nighttime track they need to fabricate a lot more than just the track because of those compromises.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Weather and Night tracks to cost $100 microtransaction each.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Weak. Very weak.

 

[Shaneus]

Just for fun...

Kinect mode is gonna cost you extra, too!

 

[Warewolf]

Ummm. The Horizon guys figured it out alright. . . .

I completely sympathize with the engineering effort required for feature implementation, really I do. But if you have a lighting model and a physics model with a surface temperature variable. Well, I don't know man. Weather I get, but night?

I would love a behind the scenes look at what kind of asset creation processes they're using that make night driving so development intensive.