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[RetroPlayer]

Do you think Sony are going to up the power of Neo to compete with Microsoft?
Sony should just make Neo a next Gen console, imo.

PS4 is more powerful then the S now (without 4k).

 

[wapplew]

Do you think Sony are going to up the power of Neo to compete with Microsoft?
Sony should just make Neo a next Gen console, imo.

PS4 is more powerful then the S now (without 4k).

Sony don't have the capital to launch a spec war against MS. Neo is an experiment, no point invest too heavy on that.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Sony don't have the capital to launch a spec war against MS. Neo is an experiment, no point invest too heavy on that.

What? Sony is the actual hardware company here, not the other way around.

People believe in the Xbox infinite 'war chest' fantasy?

 

[The Artisan]

All anyone knows for sure is that Scorpio will release 2017 according to MS.

For Neo some people expect it late this year but Sony have not confirmed anything.

With MS going for 6TFlops people are speculating that Scorpio will use a bigger SoC and thus be more expensive.

Sony should've confirmed more shit by now as we're more than halfway through the year. psvr is the only new hardware that the general public is aware of, this Ps4K stuff will show up outta nowhere if they don't say something a little more ahead of time.

Sony confirmed Neo for this year.
MS confirmed Scorpio for holiday 2017.

Unless they change the dates... yes we know.


MS was clear "holiday 2017".
Sony confirmed Neo for this year in a Famitsu interview some weeks ago.

mS said Q4 2017 for scorpio? if Ps4K is supposed to come out this year at the end that's a whole year of a gap...which would be bad for mS but I guess there's always the chance that Ps4K is delayed.

As has been discussed a lot upstream, we have confirmation that Microsoft intends to release next year but Sony has wanted to hold anything official until closer to launch. It does seem clear that they had a 2016 date in mind, though, given the requirement for Neo certification of titles. Why require a day-one patch for games released in late September of this year if that isn't shortly before the console's availability?

So you're also saying there's a good chance Ps4K will get delayed into next year?

I've gone back and forth a little, but I suspect it's likely we'll see a release at leaked specs around the same time as PSVR if not day and date.

I feel like so many people will be caught off guard if they do it do close to release though, especially with the other hardware being released

We don't know. We don't know what CPU cores Microsoft is using or how they perform, nor do we know anything about cache sizes or number of ROPs in either console, or a ton of other architectural details that really do play a role including any customization either manufacturer made in the basic design.

i haven't been paying much attention to all this for a number of reasons the most relevant being that i'm not fond of the industry going in this iterative direction, but i thought what was established was that based on all the information that was verifiable, scorpio is more powerful than Ps4K

It seems likely, but it won't be 2x as you originally suggested. It seems plausible that it will be a 40-50% gap ...

that's still a pretty huge gap though ain't it? isn't that what the gap between Ps4 and xbone is now?

... except with as much as a year's gap, little or no chance that the lower performing platform will be the higher priced one again, etc. In order words: it's not the same situation, so it's hard to apply the same lessons.

that's only if there is a year's gap though. but yes, if there is, then that's bad for mS

 

[jdmonmou]

Do you think Sony are going to up the power of Neo to compete with Microsoft?
Sony should just make Neo a next Gen console, imo.

PS4 is more powerful then the S now (without 4k).

I think it's too late for that. But I do think we'll see a PS5 in Holiday 2018 that will be able to do gaming at 4K 60 FPS.

 

[wapplew]

What? Sony is the actual hardware company here, not the other way around.

People believe in the Xbox infinite 'war chest' fantasy?

Not because of war chest, more like Scorpio is similar to steam box, a very PC approach console. They can release new hardware more frequently.
Sony still on tradition console cycle, which stick to a longer cycle, can't match spec with console that might on a yearly cycle, just like they can't match spec against PC.

 

[SScorpio]

Premium console is just more spin from Microsoft touting Scorpio as the most powerful console ever. Microsoft's Xbox Gaming Division needs this to be a success because Xbox One sales are not good right now and they are trying to push ahead to the next generation. The biggest clue that Microsoft wants Scorpio to be a mass market product is that the time between announcement and release is a year and a half. Microsoft is pushing ahead with the next-gen and will phase out the Xbox One. Therefore it would be insane for them to sell it for anything more than $399. This thing has to sell and make a profit to recoup the costs that Microsoft spent developing and marketing it.

I believe it's more than just needing the Xbox One to be successful. Since this gen is the start of commodity x86 off the shelf hardware, I still believe that future consoles will remain backwards compatible. So Microsoft needs a success to lock users into the Xbox platform.

Microsoft and Sony did a reset of the platform population by not having backwards compatibility. It's nice that you can now play some 360 games on an XBO, but that was needed at launch. A lot more people probably would have bought the XBO to retain their libraries. With previous gens all of the games were physical, but with last gen digital games came into their own. And I'm sure other people feel let down looking at all their digital games and knowing they can't play on their new hardware. As a primary PC gamer I love looking at my Steam library or going through my binders of disks from 20+ years ago and knowing I can still play those games on my current PC. With all the people that buy virtual console and HD remasters there is demand for older games, and having them playable on the new hardware will keep people buying your new systems and new games on those consoles.

 

[EightBitNate]

What? Sony is the actual hardware company here, not the other way around.

People believe in the Xbox infinite 'war chest' fantasy?

PlayStation is Sony's most successful (and Iirc their only profitable) business at the moment. If they invest too much in Neo and it doesn't pay off, it could mean bad things for the company as a whole.

 

[Zedox]

I think it's too late for that. But I do think we'll see a PS5 in Holiday 2018 that will be able to do gaming at 4K 60 FPS.

PS5 in 2018? So you mean to tell me that they'll release a new PS4 at the earliest the end of this year, or latest March 2017 and release a whole new system that will be marginally powerful than the PS4K and call it the PS5 the following year? Yea...probably not. That's wishful thinking.

End of 2020 would be my best bet for next generation hardware after Neo/Scorpio.

PlayStation is Sony's most successful (and Iirc their only profitable) business at the moment. If they invest too much in Neo and it doesn't pay off, it could mean bad things for the company as a whole.

I think their big bet is PSVR. I still don't think it's where it needs to be for mass market as a product (all VR, not just Sony). I think there's a ways for it to go.

 

[DESTROYA]

I seriously doubt we'll see 4K gaming at 60 FPS for the PS5, the hardware you would need to do that is very expensive and the GPU alone cost $500-$700.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

PlayStation is Sony's most successful (and Iirc their only profitable) business at the moment. If they invest too much in Neo and it doesn't pay off, it could mean bad things for the company as a whole.

Insurance is profitable as well.

 

[Zedox]

I seriously doubt we'll see 4K gaming at 60 FPS for the PS5, the hardware you would need to do that is very expensive and the GPU alone cost $500-$700.

I think the Titan X can do it...but that's also a $1200 card right now. That's why it will take some years to drive that cost down. That's why I say 2020 is the best bet for that.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

The S is basically an "Xbox One slim" with extra features. It should completely replace the original Xbox One sometime in 2017.

Xbox Scorpio will more than likely be pushed similarly to a (true) next gen console even though it isn't. Major reveal event, rebranding, ads talking about the power it has over the original Xbox One, etc.

XBOX One S completely replaces vanilla XBOX as soon as MS runs out of stock. They should have stopped producing the old SKUs quite some time ago.

Concerning the next gen issue, well, I suppose if XBOX One S goes down the tube rather soon MS might focus on advertising Scorpio, including offering exclusive content - at some point (not from the beginning, though).

 

[Hoo-doo]

PlayStation is Sony's most successful (and Iirc their only profitable) business at the moment. If they invest too much in Neo and it doesn't pay off, it could mean bad things for the company as a whole.

What does that have to do with it? If Microsoft launches a huge clunker that cost them billions to design and fabricate, they would feel that loss just as hard as Sony would. Possibly spinning down the entire console hardware division with it. It's not to mean Microsoft would go bankrupt, obviously.

But if a spec war were really the way forward, Sony would have no difficulty in leading that charge. That's all i'm saying. They are a hardware company first and foremost and Sony beat Microsoft in the hardware race plenty times before. Microsoft is kicking up a spec war because of promise of profits in the future, Sony could very well do the same if they felt that need.

The fact that Sony isn't (publicly) engaging in a spec war right now is because it's all a big guess at this point. There's no point in competing with something that doesn't come out for 18 months and they have not even announced their next console yet.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Do you think Sony are going to up the power of Neo to compete with Microsoft?
Sony should just make Neo a next Gen console, imo.

PS4 is more powerful then the S now (without 4k).

I dont think Sony has any interest in making a console thats more than $399. When you look at the history of successful consoles, most of them are in the 200-300 dollar range.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Do you think Sony are going to up the power of Neo to compete with Microsoft?
Sony should just make Neo a next Gen console, imo.

PS4 is more powerful then the S now (without 4k).

They don't need to. MS is the one who needs some sort of edge to compete.

 

[c0de]

Do you think Sony are going to up the power of Neo to compete with Microsoft?
Sony should just make Neo a next Gen console, imo.

PS4 is more powerful then the S now (without 4k).

They can't compete with ms with neo. The difference in release date is too big.

 

[STEaMkb]

PlayStation is Sony's most successful (and Iirc their only profitable) business at the moment.

It doesn't matter how many times people are corrected on this point, the myth still persists.

 

[RibMan]

They can't compete with ms with neo. The difference in release date is too big.

Perhaps it's the other way around.

 

[SOR5]

They are a hardware company first and foremost and Sony beat Microsoft in the hardware race plenty times before.

Well there's this current gen but I genuinely can't name any other occasion
EDIT: misread, my bad

 

[c0de]

What does that have to do with it? If Microsoft launches a huge clunker that cost them billions to design and fabricate, they would feel that loss just as hard as Sony would. Possibly spinning down the entire console hardware division with it. It's not to mean Microsoft would go bankrupt, obviously.

But if a spec war were really the way forward, Sony would have no difficulty in leading that charge. That's all i'm saying. They are a hardware company first and foremost and Sony beat Microsoft in the hardware race plenty times before. Microsoft is kicking up a spec war because of promise of profits in the future, Sony could very well do the same if they felt that need.

The fact that Sony isn't (publicly) engaging in a spec war right now is because it's all a big guess at this point. There's no point in competing with something that doesn't come out for 18 months and they have not even announced their next console yet.

Ah, the “hardware company“ narrative.
First, this hardware company built a lot of unsuccessful hardware in the past.
Second, building a console right now is more or less buying hardware that is available and to put it into a case. And don't begin with the difference of the current gen - we know why this went how it went.
Edit: and you even said “plenty times before“. Now that's even amusing.

 

[inbarrenpraise]

It was to give consumers a choice. Don't let this news lead you astray.

Truth is that this was obvious to anyone that was tracking the sales

Bullshit. Microsoft doesn't care about consumers or "giving you a choice" - they want to make money and this is not good for them. They announced scorpio as early as they did likely because they wanted to get in front of the Neo and try to be top of mind, which failed.

 

[c0de]

Perhaps it's the other way around.

Sure, neo will release after Scorpio just to have better hardware that nobody cares about because hardware is not a reason that people buy consoles.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I think it's too late for that. But I do think we'll see a PS5 in Holiday 2018 that will be able to do gaming at 4K 60 FPS.

You won't see a PS5 is 2018, let alone one that can do 4K at 60 FPS. I'd say 2020 probably, 2019 at a push.

 

[rrc1594]

Bullshit. Microsoft doesn't care about consumers or "giving you a choice" - they want to make money and this is not good for them. They announced scorpio as early as they did likely because they wanted to get in front of the Neo and try to be top of mind, which failed.

How?

 

[SOR5]

Bullshit. Microsoft doesn't care about consumers or "giving you a choice" - they want to make money

Microsoft is the bad guy finally I'm glad people see this, everybody else does it for the gamers right bro? Give me a gamer fistbump fellow gamer

 

[inbarrenpraise]

How?

Sales are down almost 10% right after E3?

 

[wapplew]

Sure, neo will release after Scorpio just to have better hardware that nobody cares about because hardware is no reason that people buy consoles.

I think he meant MS can't compete with Neo because their product is not ready for the market for a year.
Your original claim still work, Neo can't compete with MS cause it can't compete with something doesn't exist yet.

 

[rrc1594]

Sales are down almost 10% right after E3?

I'm confused what does that have to do with Scorpio and Neo?

 

[inbarrenpraise]

Microsoft is the bad guy finally I'm glad people see this, everybody else does it for the gamers right bro? Give me a gamer fistbump fellow gamer

It's hilarious that when people criticize the obnxious false narrative that Microsoft is trying to be "consumer friendly" that fanboys have to launch into this defense mechanism. Great strawman. You sure showed me.

 

[Zedox]

Bullshit. Microsoft doesn't care about consumers or "giving you a choice" - they want to make money and this is not good for them. They announced scorpio as early as they did likely because they wanted to get in front of the Neo and try to be top of mind, which failed.

They don't care for consumers? Yes, they do, that's who gives them money.
They care for giving you a choice...but the choice is within their products to get money out of you. Just like Xbox Play Anywhere...choose what device you want to play your game, as long as it is in our system. Beneficial to both consumer and producer.

I don't know how they failed being on top of mind. Don't even know how one would measure that exactly. Yet we are talking about it. #shrug

 

[inbarrenpraise]

I'm confused what does that have to do with Scorpio and Neo?

Sales should not be on a downward slope after a major press conference that is supposed to ultimately drive people to buy things?

 

[SOR5]

It's hilarious that when people criticize the obnxious false narrative that Microsoft is trying to be "consumer friendly" that fanboys have to launch into this defense mechanism. Great strawman. You sure showed me.

So I'm not getting my fistbump :/

But you know what saddens me more? The absolutely startling revelation people make that companies prioritise profit above all else, truly prophetic.

It's not a straw man, your narrative implies that every company is powered by kittens and rainbows and Microsoft is the greedy outlier powered by dollars and deception.

 

[rrc1594]

They don't care for consumers? Yes, they do, that's who gives them money.
They care for giving you a choice...but the choice is within their products to get money out of you. Just like Xbox Play Anywhere...choose what device you want to play your game, as long as it is in our system. Beneficial to both consumer and producer.

I don't know how they failed being on top of mind. Don't even know how one would measure that exactly. Yet we are talking about it. #shrug

This I don't understand how Xbox One not selling have to do with Scorpio being "Top of Mind" to Neo

Sales should not be on a downward slope after a major press conference that is supposed to ultimately drive people to buy things?

Why would people go buy X1 if stronger Xbox is coming out. My question is you said they failed for Scorpio be top of mind to Neo, but how?

 

[onQ123]

Do you think Sony are going to up the power of Neo to compete with Microsoft?
Sony should just make Neo a next Gen console, imo.

PS4 is more powerful then the S now (without 4k).

Neo is a 4K PS4 & it was spec'ed to reach the goal of playing PS4 games in 4K with the use of cheaper rendering techniques & to do it at a good price range without changing much of the PS4.

If they are reaching the goal of 4K using less resources why would they go back & drive themselves in a hole trying to out do MS? This isn't a new generation it's still PS4/Xbox One games .

 

[Hoo-doo]

Ah, the “hardware company“ narrative.
First, this hardware company built a lot of unsuccessful hardware in the past.
Second, building a console right now is more or less buying hardware that is available and to put it into a case. And don't begin with the difference of the current gen - we know why this went how it went.

How is it a 'narrative'? Sony has always had professional and consumer electronics/ hardware as it's core business. That's what i'm trying to put across. Are you arguing against that fact?

All i'm saying is that Sony really isn't lacking in terms of hardware development, and that the idea of Sony being outclassed by Microsoft in that regard is simply nonsense. Both companies are more than capable of putting modern silicon in a plastic enclosure.

And honestly, please at least take a casual glance at Microsoft's portfolio before talking about unsuccessful hardware launches. Every company makes clunkers. This isn't new.

 

[c0de]

I think he meant MS can't compete with Neo because their product is not ready for the market for a year.
Your original claim still work, Neo can't compete with MS cause it can't compete with something doesn't exist yet.

Funny thing is that neo also doesn't exist yet ;-)

 

[MilkyJoe]

Sales are down almost 10% right after E3?

In that interview in the other thread Phil addresses this saying it gives the customer a choice and they know what's coming. So if they don't buy an Xbox One S because they want to wait until Scorpio drops then they get that sale in 2017. He also said something about people would be a bit annoyed if a year after S they drop a much more powerful box having kept it secret.

Personally i read that as don't be tempted by a Neo, cause we have something bigger coming soon. Simple as that.

What they are doing now is weathering the storm.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Ah, the “hardware company“ narrative.
First, this hardware company built a lot of unsuccessful hardware in the past.
Second, building a console right now is more or less buying hardware that is available and to put it into a case. And don't begin with the difference of the current gen - we know why this went how it went.
Edit: and you even said “plenty times before“. Now that's even amusing.

That isn't a "narrative". Sony primarily focuses on hardware development.

 

[Trup1aya]

Premium console is just more spin from Microsoft touting Scorpio as the most powerful console ever. Microsoft's Xbox Gaming Division needs this to be a success because Xbox One sales are not good right now and they are trying to push ahead to the next generation. The biggest clue that Microsoft wants Scorpio to be a mass market product is that the time between announcement and release is a year and a half. Microsoft is pushing ahead with the next-gen and will phase out the Xbox One. Therefore it would be insane for them to sell it for anything more than $399. This thing has to sell and make a profit to recoup the costs that Microsoft spent developing and marketing it.

Your completely wiffing on their strategy.

It WILL be a mass market product.... Just not at launch.

They Scorpio will bridge the gap between Xbox one and Xbox 2. As this current gen winds to a close, Xbox One S will represent the low end (mass market) option and Scorpio will represent the high end option.

A few years after Scorpio launches, Sony will be showing their Ps5 and MS will be showing their 'Xbox 2'. The Scorpio will then become the mass market option for the "Xbox 2" family of hardware.

as far as recouping costs, Scorpio will afford high profit margins. Selling a lot of an item isn't the only way to make a profit.

 

[SOR5]

In that interview in the other thread Phil addresses this saying it gives the customer a choice and they know what's coming. So if they don't buy an Xbox One S because they want to wait until Scorpio drops then they get that sale in 2017. He also said something about people would be a bit annoyed if a year after S they drop a much more powerful box having kept it secret.

Personally i read that as don't be tempted by a Neo, cause we have something bigger coming soon. Simple as that.

What they are doing now is weathering the storm.

It is okay if a consumer wants to wait for Scorpio

 

[MilkyJoe]

It is okay if a consumer wants to wait for Scorpio

That's the one.

 

[wapplew]

Funny thing is that neo also doesn't exist yet ;-)

Their dev kits exist, according to leaks. That's something.
But you are right, Neo can't compete with Scorpio spec wise, Neo might have to suffer a long long time as second best spec, maybe thrid too I bet Scorpio 2.0 will launch ahead of PS5.
Sony might never have a chance to be the most powerful console longer than a year going forward. That's something MS promise, they don't want to be underpower again.
With MS generation-less approach, I can see that happen.

 

[etta]

Not because of war chest, more like Scorpio is similar to steam box, a very PC approach console. They can release new hardware more frequently.
Sony still on tradition console cycle, which stick to a longer cycle, can't match spec with console that might on a yearly cycle, just like they can't match spec against PC.

Microsoft too is still on the traditional release cycle. One, Scorpio is still part of the Xbox One "family" devices, and two, and most importantly, Phil said they are only doing this because they saw a big increase in gaming technology happening right now that they wanted to bring to console (4K gaming). If 4K gaming wasn't becoming a reality for another 2-3 years they wouldn't have done it now. So next gen will probably be 4K60 standard, now if 120Hz starts to pick up as a big gaming thing 2-3 years after next gen's launch, then they will probably do another Scorpio "v2" situation to adopt that.
So as it stands, they will only release new hardware half way through the generation if something completely new comes along, not just better CPU/GPU hardware.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Their dev kits exist, according to leaks. That's something.
But you are right, Neo can't compete with Scorpio spec wise, Neo might have to suffer a long long time as second best spec, maybe thrid too I bet Scorpio 2.0 will launch ahead of PS5.
Sony might never have a chance to be the most powerful console longer than a year going forward. That's something MS promise, they don't want to be underpower again.
With MS generation-less approach, I can see that happen.

Minus the scorpio 2 before PS5, I'd say this is highly likely.

 

[Trup1aya]

Microsoft is too still on the traditional release cycle. One, Scorpio is still part of the Xbox One "family" device, and two, and most importantly, Phil said they are only doing this because they saw a big increase in gaming technology happening right now that they wanted to bring to console (4K gaming). If 4K gaming wasn't becoming a reality for another 2-3 years they wouldn't have done it now. So next gen will probably be 4K60 standard, now IF 120Hz starts to pick up as a big gaming thing 2-3 years after next gen's launch, then they will probably do another Scorpio "v2" situation to adopt that.
So as it stands, they will only release new hardware half way through the generation if something completely new comes along, not just better CPU/GPU hardware.

Scorpio will be a part of the xbox1 and Xbox 2 family... That's what they mean by 'generation-less', forward and backwards compatible...

It's certainly not a traditional cycle, because their install base won't start from scratch everytime there is a new standard.

 

[wapplew]

Minus the scorpio 2 before PS5, I'd say this is highly likely.

We'll have to see about that. If Neo one year head start proven more successful than more power late start, I don't see MS want be late again.
But that's big if.

 

[etta]

Scorpio will be a part of the xbox1 and Xbox 2 family... That's what they mean by 'generation-less', forward and backwards compatible...

It's cert badly not a traditional cycle, because their install base won't start from scratch everytime there is a new standard.

Generation-less between Xbox One and Xbox Scorpio, same as how PS4K is not a new generation.
But he did say that he saw 4K gaming as an "inflection point" and wanted to use the Scorpio to bring that to console gaming. That to me says that if there was no 4K gaming to be had on console-cheap hardware now, there would be no Scorpio.

 

[mejin]

Their dev kits exist, according to leaks. That's something.
But you are right, Neo can't compete with Scorpio spec wise, Neo might have to suffer a long long time as second best spec, maybe thrid too I bet Scorpio 2.0 will launch ahead of PS5.
Sony might never have a chance to be the most powerful console longer than a year going forward. That's something MS promise, they don't want to be underpower again.
With MS generation-less approach, I can see that happen.

I think it's really, really early to say MS has plans after Scorpio.

 

[wapplew]

It is okay if a consumer wants to wait for Scorpio

Sure they are ok if consumer want to wait for Scorpio.
They will not be ok if consumer choose NX or Neo, that's why they announce something for them to wait for, instead of going other places before they have something to sell.