TheSlySoul
Member
PR Fluff does not reflect the real product?
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Verge: New Hololens impressions "demo videos are all basically a lie"
- Thread starter nynt9
- Start date
And could cost more than the console : http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-hololens-will-cost-more-than-an-xbox-2015-4#ixzz3YtRVhpL5
I was never convinced by the Project Natal demo (You're talking about super accurate voice and gesture recognition there), but I fell for this one (Basic gesture interface onto head mounted display seemed more believable)
Fool me once. But to be fair, this doesn't feel like something they can't fix before actual release.
Fool me once. But to be fair, this doesn't feel like something they can't fix before actual release.
Of course I realize that. My comment is directly addressing that. They should have never marketed like that, they should have marketed it as what it was.
I've been very impressed so far with how well they have thought-out and choreographed these live demonstrations to avoid any image occlusion (situations where the subject or subject's limbs would appear in front of the image). As the projection is just an overlay it will always appear as the topmost layer unless they mask off portions of the image to compensate (while this is certainly feasible, I have yet to see HoloLens demonstrate this)
If you notice in this latest demo, they always have the subject stand to the side of the projection, or behind it, or sit just below it, or walk to a new place on the stage while off camera, but never in front. They even went so far as to have the subject exit behind an oddly placed cabinet on stage, to avoid walking in front of the projection:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AADEqLIALk
If you notice in this latest demo, they always have the subject stand to the side of the projection, or behind it, or sit just below it, or walk to a new place on the stage while off camera, but never in front. They even went so far as to have the subject exit behind an oddly placed cabinet on stage, to avoid walking in front of the projection:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AADEqLIALk
It doesn't make sense to me anyway, as a concept.
How could things be shared among multiple users without unique markers on everything? Is there some technlogy that marks everything, connects via some internet network, and tells everyone what should be viewed at a specific location, from all angles?
What? How?
There are only two ways I can make sense of it.
- Everyone object is understood by the device in terms of its absolute uniqueness. It can distinguish tables and desks of the same make and categorize it internally as "This is the desk where which a globe is on for Dave, and therefore you see the globe there too". What?
- Its positional tracking is astounding. It can tell exactly where your HoloLens is in relation to the HoloLens' of all other people in the room, and transmit data regarding positions of panels and movies being watched on said panels, and where those would appear relative to you, instantly.
TL;DR: I don't trust this demon magic.
How could things be shared among multiple users without unique markers on everything? Is there some technlogy that marks everything, connects via some internet network, and tells everyone what should be viewed at a specific location, from all angles?
What? How?
There are only two ways I can make sense of it.
- Everyone object is understood by the device in terms of its absolute uniqueness. It can distinguish tables and desks of the same make and categorize it internally as "This is the desk where which a globe is on for Dave, and therefore you see the globe there too". What?
- Its positional tracking is astounding. It can tell exactly where your HoloLens is in relation to the HoloLens' of all other people in the room, and transmit data regarding positions of panels and movies being watched on said panels, and where those would appear relative to you, instantly.
TL;DR: I don't trust this demon magic.
So I guess this was complete horseshit?
Because that wouldn't fit in the box unless you were 50 feet away.
lol I knew something about this was fishy, but everyone in the OT thread were going ham for no damn reason. MS gonna MS.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
You misspelled apple.
They demo they showed where they placed the floating screen on the wall also hid another drawback - the inability for hololens to create occluded pixels. Everything it creates is transparent. They placed the video window on a wall, because floating in space, it would look like stained glass.
Mass Effect
Member
Let's be honest here, whether it's Microsoft, Google, Apple, whoever, we're a long way away from what MS showed us with their concept demo.
I'm honestly surprised people believed Kinect would be like that.
Never forget: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2qlHoxPioM
I'm still sour it didn't half turn out like it was presented in the videos
I'm honestly surprised people believed Kinect would be like that.
But you said that you are saddened that people said MS lied about Kinect. You are admitting they lied about Kinect.... so, you are making yourself sad? I'm confused.
superseohyun
Member
yeah, lets wait for milo. Dont jump to conclusion yet!
NecromorphTX
Member
Kinect was a lie, news at 10.
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
Someone already stated in the Hololens thread in the OT that the FOV is essentially the size of a credit card held two inches from your face, so this info was already out there
I'm sad that people see kinect as snake oil, a worthless product that flat out doesn't work. It DOES work, just not the way they are using it.
It's like trying to eat peas with a knife, and then declaring the knife a worthless tool. It has utility, but it is misused. And now people will shit on it forever, which honestly jeopardizes it's utility in the fields where it is relevant.
It's called "poisoning the well." Microsoft poisoned the well on 3D scan cameras. They shouldn't be used as input, they should be used for what they are - a means of scanning an object as a 3D mesh.
thewhitehawk
Member
Consider me completely unsurprised.
*facepalm*
No, don't be that anti-apple pain the behind and stick to the topic of the thread instead. We don't people who think they're clever with their opinion doing stupid shit like this
Well, I didn't believe the beams coming out off Kinect to scan the skateboard.
But I did expect it would recognize hand/finger gestures relatively accurate, be better at voice recognition than most products were at the time and be lag-free. None of which turned out to be true in the end, sadly.
loaf of bread
Member
Nah, MS is more known for betting on their own thing on the other end of the spectrum of what others are doing and having it flop before eventually joining in on the trend after the ship has already sailed and missing out.
They won't because the product is very clearly still work in progress.
I wouldn't be surprised if the FoV is improved a lot by the time HoloLens is available to buy.
Have you watch the video, where the only complaing was the field of view of a product that it not the final
Diablohead
Member
You wear the kinect on your head, it's how I see this hologram stuff right now.
Well...yeah. The original impressions from a few months ago criticized the bad FOV. The same day as the new demonstration almost every impression I read mentioned the bad FOV. The stage demo was shown from an angle outside of the visor, probably because a first person demo would be awkward while still not showing the audience what the human eye would see. I'm not saying this isn't thread worthy, just that this isn't a new revelation. The Hololense thread and the Build thread had FOV impressions in them.
It's ironic.
Graphics Horse
Member
Indeed. Helps that the camera guy has a tablet strapped to his rig so he can see exactly what's being shown. Love how close his head gets to the planet!
Anton Sugar
Member
It's amusing to note when GAF decides they can trust The Verge or not.
It's important to note a distinction here: the field of view/level of immersion from the demo is the "lie". The functionality is all there, according to impressions.
This, basically. Almost every impression has mentioned how limiting the FOV is right now. Still, if it's as limiting as the video says, that will be disappointing. The demo camera that was recording the presentation must have a much wider FOV than the actual glasses.
Here are two sets of impressions from /build, FWIW:
Yahoo:
Tom's Hardware
CNet (who had probably the most negative impressions last January):
Basically, the impression indicate that the FOV is limited and it's not as immersive as MS bills it, but functionally, the demo is accurate in terms of what you can actually do.
It's important to note a distinction here: the field of view/level of immersion from the demo is the "lie". The functionality is all there, according to impressions.
This, basically. Almost every impression has mentioned how limiting the FOV is right now. Still, if it's as limiting as the video says, that will be disappointing. The demo camera that was recording the presentation must have a much wider FOV than the actual glasses.
Here are two sets of impressions from /build, FWIW:
Yahoo:
Tom's Hardware
CNet (who had probably the most negative impressions last January):
Basically, the impression indicate that the FOV is limited and it's not as immersive as MS bills it, but functionally, the demo is accurate in terms of what you can actually do.
If they aren't letting people take videos of others using and testing it, you know somethings up. But Microsoft is pretty famed for this kind of thing at this point. Milo, Kinect etc. Here's hoping the final unit improves on these things, because I'm certainly interested in the concept, I just don't trust Microsoft's promotion of it.
Well, I didn't believe the beams coming out off Kinect to scan the skateboard.
Actually, that is the closest approximation to how Kinect actually works. There ARE beams coming out scanning the object. What happens with kinect is that a laser passes through a prism that scatters it around the room. This is a time of flight camera that measues the time it takes for the light to reflect back to an IR sensor. By calculating the time it takes to return, it can create a depth map from a single perspective of the object it is scanning. By triangulating kinects, you can capture an object in every angle as a full 3D mesh.
That part of kinect actually works. It's their crappy software that takes that and tries to figure out skeletal data from it that is wonky and slow.
3D mesh scanning is near instant.
The Verge video makes a good point - if you have an object entirely sitting within the field of view of the hololens it looks fantastic. But as soon as it clips outside of the limited FoV, you instantly are aware that it is a screen and the illusion breaks.
And that goes entirely against the 'concept' videos they are showing which have the AR images across the entire field of view. If they can increase the FoV I'm sure it'll increase the stability of the 'presence' for objects.
And that goes entirely against the 'concept' videos they are showing which have the AR images across the entire field of view. If they can increase the FoV I'm sure it'll increase the stability of the 'presence' for objects.
Morpheus/Oculus are works in progress as well. Hasn't stopped them from stating the FOV of each iteration.
I so called this after wathing the announcement
And I was dogpiled on because Wired said it was amazing and exactly as shown in the example footage. Learn from this people! Wired is a hyperbolic hype machine disguised as a tech magazine and MS always over promises when it comes to new gimmicky tech.
And I was dogpiled on because Wired said it was amazing and exactly as shown in the example footage. Learn from this people! Wired is a hyperbolic hype machine disguised as a tech magazine and MS always over promises when it comes to new gimmicky tech.
Well the fact that it works is cool, just let down by the FOV
PanicFreak
Member
We already knew about the limited FOV. However, there are still tons of impressions that use the word "mindblowing".
Poodlestrike
Banned
First off: this is nothing like Milo. Milo was just straight up fabricated.
This is overselling. Which isn't great, but it's a dramatically different proposition. The device does everything they're saying it does, just in an overly narrow field of view.
This is overselling. Which isn't great, but it's a dramatically different proposition. The device does everything they're saying it does, just in an overly narrow field of view.
Yes! Watching the latest demo specifically looking for this ends up be an exhilarating experience. There many moments where the subject *almost* appears in front of the projection, but the camera cuts away at the last second. The closest call is when the cameraman does the "room scan" effect, and the tide is about to wash onto the subject but they cut away. It's masterful, really.