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[Equanimity]

There are far more games that have higher framerates on Pro than on the standard PS4 but it seems some are determined to keep pushing a false narrative just because WD2 momentarily drops to 28 or 29fps sometimes when driving at night, as though that renders the much higher resolution meaningless.

I don't think that's the case here. Don't you find it annoying that a game is dropping more frames and screen tearing on the Pro in comparison to the base model?

Devs need to fix up and patch these games accordingly.

Screen tearing shouldn't even be a thing on the Pro. I just hope the day one patch fixes these issues otherwise I'll be thoroughly disappointed.

 

[King_Moc]

There are far more games that have higher framerates on Pro than on the standard PS4 but it seems some are determined to keep pushing a false narrative just because WD2 momentarily drops to 28 or 29fps sometimes when driving at night, as though that renders the much higher resolution meaningless.

Well, yeah. People were the same when we jumped from 480p to 720p. I remember people saying they'd rather see 480p with the power just poured into AA so that they had a soft image (and fuck all detail).

 

[EmiPrime]

Can't watch the video atm, but is this the kind of thing we're talking about?

The IQ bump in COD and TLOU has blown me away, so if this is the situation I'll gladly take it.

Yeah, much ado about nothing. It will be nice if it gets fixed in a patch but if it doesn't, don't do doughnuts at night while surrounded by lots of different light sources from the police and you'll be okay.

 

[Stall19]

All this bias Pro coverage. Where's the Nintendo Classic coverage? I wanna know how much better the Classic runs Mario than OG Nintendo.

 

[Boke1879]

There are far more games that have higher framerates on Pro than on the standard PS4 but it seems some are determined to keep pushing a false narrative just because WD2 momentarily drops to 28 or 29fps sometimes when driving at night, as though that renders the much higher resolution meaningless.

I mean I get it. I didn't watch all the video so if someone can tell me how bad it gets I'd like to know. If it's to the point of it being unplayable then it's a problem.

 

[RoboPlato]

The drops may also be CPU-related. A 30% clockspeed increase doesn't mean anything if developers are asking too much of it.

Why would there be drops based on CPU? CPU load doesn't scale with res and the CPU is faster than the standard PS4, which doesn't have the drops.

 

[MikeHaggar]

Alpha effects are very bandwidth dependant.

that's a good point. many more pixels to calculate alpha for.

 

[Equanimity]

Why would there be drops based on CPU? CPU load doesn't scale with res and the CPU is faster than the standard PS4, which doesn't have the drops.

I was thinking the same. But I could be wrong.

 

[EmiPrime]

I don't think that's the case here. Don't you find it annoying that a game is dropping more frames and screen tearing on the Pro in comparison to the base model?

Devs need to fix up and patch these games accordingly.

Of course but I am not going to lose my mind over it and demand a significantly lower pixel count for the sake of a dropped frame or two during very specific conditions when the performance stays solid 99% of the time.

Honestly I find the absence of HDR far more disappointing.

 

[JaseC]

Why would there be drops based on CPU? CPU load doesn't scale with res and the CPU is faster than the standard PS4, which doesn't have the drops.

There may be aspects of the game particularly or otherwise are in no small part reliant on the CPU that Ubi kicked up a notch for the Pro version. Draw distance, for instance, can impose a CPU bottleneck, such as is the case with Dying Light.

 

[DeVeAn]

Man, might have to return the Pro and just get a slim. Unacceptable really.

 

[Unknown?]

It's 2/3 fps, will be fixed in no time I'm pretty sure, Sony must be over them..

Most games I'm playing on Pro have amazing performances, Cod 4, IW, Uncharted 4, Ratchet, Mordor are just some examples.

Do we have Dishonored 2 test? I heard it's terrible on Pc so I'm scared to buy it.

THAT'S it?! And we have people claiming bloody murder?! Anyway isn't there a MASSIVE patch we still haven't got that will be available day 1?

 

[EmiPrime]

Man, might have to return the Pro and just get a slim. Unacceptable really.

That's really throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[chromatic9]

The vanilla PS4 experience should be available for every PS4 Pro supported title.

Look like another GPU bound scenario where it looks like 1440p would be better at the expense of some image quality, whether that's GPU power or bandwidth limitations.

With TLOU you have vanilla PS4 running it at highest settings 60fps but shooting for 1800p Pro gives you drops, can't be a CPU issue.

 

[nOoblet16]

I think for games like this there should be a high performance 1080P version...so that pro users could atleast have a mode that performs as good as base PS4.

I mean the GPU power is there, why would you provide a worse experience when you can do better?

 

[nelsonroyale]

Guess it's a good thing i kept my normal PS4 guess ill have to put my profile on the old ps4 to download and play this.

Tempted to just return my Pro until Sony decides it's un-fucking-acceptable that shit like this happens.


did they state it's a 2-3 fps drop? Because there is a difference between a 2-3 fps drop and a 10+fps drop especially with a lot of stuff happening. It's unacceptable weather you think it is or not because we paid for a premium product that promised 1:1 performance the original if not better.

The video showed 3-4 fps frops (which is still unacceptable), not 10 fps drops...

 

[RoboPlato]

Man, might have to return the Pro and just get a slim. Unacceptable really.

Most games run better on the Pro. A handful of launch titles drop a couple extra frames in taxing scenarios. I expect these are games mostly from devs who didn't have ample time to account for the Pro in their workflow.

 

[King_Moc]

No HDR? Oh, ffs. Is it hard to implement or something? Genuinely have no idea.

 

[S1kkZ]

The video showed 3-4 fps frops (which is still unacceptable), not 10 fps drops...

3-4 fps drops on a 30fps game can have a huge impact, compared to a 60 fps game.

fact is: some games run worse on the pro. this should not happen, at all.
all games, without exception, should perform better on the pro. thats the whole point of that thing.

 

[DeVeAn]

That's really throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

When the base mode runs worse on a superior machine is it really?

 

[Fisty]

Wow...again
This is ubisoft we are talking about but the ball is also in sonys court

Sony is not really giving people a good reason to upgrade are they??

Games run worse than base ps4

Console is just as loud as base ps4

Psvr games are all pretty much minigame or short game experiences with bad pricing


Personally feel sony has shot themselves in the foot here...you have a half step console that in 12 months is going to get trounced by a much more powerful console

They should of just stuck with the slim and made sure it was on par with the xbox one s in terms of features.

I was waiting for the pay off, and boy howdy did you deliver

 

[Collateral22]

Can they offer dynamic resolution in instances like that where it drops frames to try eliminate them?

 

[theonerayman]

I have this feeling that back at sony HQ the top brass is rather upset. Sure it's only a few games, and they are right at the launch of the new hardware but there are going to be people who see these reports and go "Huh, I can pay 100 less and get BETTER performance in these games?" And all it takes is the perception that the pro is a flop for the public to spin that into the narrative.

 

[DeVeAn]

Most games run better on the Pro. A handful of launch titles drop a couple extra frames in taxing scenarios. I expect these are games mostly from devs who didn't have ample time to account for the Pro in their workflow.

For now. If this becomes a trend then what? My return window is closing and I really want what the pro offers or at least what I was informed it offers. I still own a 1080p set with no plans of a 4K for some time.

 

[chromatic9]

Most games run better on the Pro. A handful of launch titles drop a couple extra frames in taxing scenarios. I expect these are games mostly from devs who didn't have ample time to account for the Pro in their workflow.

At this stage we have around 20 odd games that most people have heard of and what is it like 5-6 games have worse performance? We're talking around 25% of games right now. If there was 200 AA/AAA games supported and only 5 drop then I might agree with "only a handful", but we have only four handfuls of games.

 

[Dictator93]

Probably a naive pro Implementation. Pro may have more than 2x compute but it does not have a comparable bump in bandwidth. Richard mentionef this. Just 2xing the resolution in a deferred renderer probably will create areas that run worse than base. The more bandwidth heavy the game engine is... the less high res the pro version can realistically be.

They should probably lower the res.

 

[Mindman]

The majority of games look better and run better on the Pro. This is to be expected at a product launch. Wait till Scorpio and it's promise of native 4k games...

 

[EmiPrime]

3-4 fps drops on a 30fps game can have a huge impact, compared to a 60 fps game.

fact is: some games run worse on the pro. this should not happen, at all.
all games, without exception, should perform better on the pro. thats the whole point of that thing.

3-4fps in a very specific situation deliberately orchestrated to tax the machine. The game isn't even out yet too, there's probably the obligatory day one patch every game seems to have these days.

When the base mode runs worse on a superior machine is it really?

There is no base mode on the Pro but if you want to ignore all the games now and going forward that will perform better on Pro and at a higher resolution, yes it is.

 

[Boke1879]

3-4 fps drops on a 30fps game can have a huge impact, compared to a 60 fps game.

fact is: some games run worse on the pro. this should not happen, at all.
all games, without exception, should perform better on the pro. thats the whole point of that thing.

Well it's up to the devs to get it up to snuff which I'm sure they will. When a game like FFXV so far based on the demo runs fine. I agree this is no excuse. But again we don't know what's going on under the hood either

 

[amstradcpc]

"Huh, I can pay 100 less and get BETTER performance in these games?"

You forgot: "with less heat, noise and watt consumption".

 

[RoboPlato]

Probably a naive pro Implementation. Pro may have more than 2x compute but it does not have a comparable bump in bandwidth. Richard mentionef this. Just 2xing the resolution in a deferred renderer probably will create areas that run worse than base. The more bandwidth heavy the game engine is... the less high res the pro version can realistically be.

They should probably lower the res.

I'm curious to see if the checkerboard method offsets the increase in bandwidth somewhat.

 

[amstradcpc]

There is no base mode on the Pro but if you want to ignore all the games now and going forward that will perform better on Pro and at a higher resolution, yes it is.

A game launching tomorrow is what we are discussing here.

 

[joecanada]

Haha I don't know what to tell you man. If you disagree then you disagree, but I stand pretty firm in my opinion that "the three year newer, twice as powerful, $100 more console should AT LEAST match the old one, if not outperform it in every possible case". Until that happens, it looks really bad for Sony and the Pro.

except that it does? the framerate thing is an issue but its running at a much higher fidelity... so its still outperforming the old one by a huge margin.

depending of course if the fps drops are bad... but that one example where the ps4 was running 60 fps and the PRO was running 58fps was just embarrassing .... and not for the developer.

 

[DeVeAn]

3-4fps in a very specific situation deliberately orchestrated to tax the machine. The game isn't even out yet too, there's probably the obligatory day one patch every game seems to have these days.



There is no base mode on the Pro but if you want to ignore all the games now and going forward that will perform better on Pro and at a higher resolution, yes it is.

Its tough to have positive intent when more games pop up with worse performance on a Pro over the Base model.

 

[S1kkZ]

Its tough to have positive intent when more games pop up with worse performance on a Pro over the Base model.

yep. i was a huge supporter of the pro (and still am), but i will wait with my purchase now.
like posted above: maybe this gets fixed and the rule (all pro games must perform better) is properly enforced. but what if this becomes a trend?

i dont want to ask myself, everytime i buy a new ps4 game: will this be one of the games that perform worse? and if so, will it be patched? and when?

 

[Boke1879]

Its tough to have positive intent when more games pop up with worse performance on a Pro over the Base model.

tbh if this is going to be an issue for you. You should probably return it now while you can get a full refund, until devs can figure this out going forward.

 

[theonerayman]

You forgot: "with less heat, noise and watt consumption".

I think things like frame rates are becoming more and more into the common speak of gamers. Lots of reviewers now mention if there is a frame rate disparity between versions of the game. (console versions at least) And while these dips are minor, gamers have an issue with making Kilimanjaro our of an ant hill.

 

[chromatic9]

3-4fps in a very specific situation deliberately orchestrated to tax the machine. The game isn't even out yet too, there's probably the obligatory day one patch every game seems to have these days.

Richard at DF did state the drops and torn frames were noticeable in general play just before the stress test.

Also playing these games will often see you involved in a lot of action similar to the stress test. You're acting like this is some conspiracy. The vanilla PS4 is right there staying at 30fps the whole time.

 

[RoboPlato]

For now. If this becomes a trend then what? My return window is closing and I really want what the pro offers or at least what I was informed it offers. I still own a 1080p set with no plans of a 4K for some time.

At this stage we have around 20 odd games that most people have heard of and what is it like 5-6 games have worse performance? We're talking around 25% of games right now. If there was 200 AA/AAA games supported and only 5 drop then I might agree with "only a handful", but we have only four handfuls of games.

Don't get me wrong, I think Sony and the dev teams need to have more rigorous testing to prevent this. I'm just saying that there's more evidence of the Pro being able to handle improved visuals and improved performance. If this happens outside the launch window, then I'll be upset.

 

[EmiPrime]

Its tough to have positive intent when more games pop up with worse performance on a Pro over the Base model.

I don't think plumping for a Slim instead and getting sub-1080p visuals and worse framerates for many games just because the Pro has a few minor kinks at launch is an informed decision.

This won't be the first nor the last Ubisoft game that gets a performance patch either, so again, storm in a teacup.

 

[Hawk269]

This whole "runs better on base PS4" shit is what I was hoping to get away from.

What happened to the mandate that games should run at the same frame rate as the base unit?

 

[Boke1879]

I think things like frame rates are becoming more and more into the common speak of gamers. Lots of reviewers now mention if there is a frame rate disparity between versions of the game. (console versions at least) And while these dips are minor, gamers have an issue with making Kilimanjaro our of an ant hill.

Resolution and frames have been dominating arguments for a lot of people starting this gen when quite frankly most of the gaming populace just doesn't care. I have a friend who has an xbox and he said he literally don't care about resolution or frames.

I'm sure most people who get the Pro that don't frequent message boards or watch DF will notice the increased resolution and fidelity and enhanced visuals and be perfectly satisfied. Most probably won't even care about frame dips here or there because they've been used to it.

 

[S1kkZ]

What happened to the mandate that games should run at the same frame rate as the base unit?

lets be honest here: how the hell is sony going to enforce that? they would need to hire a new line of testers and equipment, that just focus on performance (so, pretty much the digital foundry guys). to do that for every game, must be very time consuming and expensive.

 

[amstradcpc]

Resolution and frames have been dominating arguments for a lot of people starting this gen when quite frankly most of the gaming populace just doesn't care. I have a friend who has an xbox and he said he literally don't care about resolution or frames.

I'm sure most people who get the Pro that don't frequent message boards or watch DF will notice the increased resolution and fidelity and enhanced visuals and be perfectly satisfied. Most probably won't even care about frame dips here or there because they've been used to it.

You are not recognizing well the Pro market segment. You are talking precissely about the public that would happily run a slim.

 

[Boke1879]

lets be honest here: how the hell is sony going to enforce that? they would need to hire a new line of testers, that just focus on performance (so, pretty much the digital foundry guys). to do that for every game, must be very time consuming and expensive.

Not to mention are you really going to tell Ubisoft or any AAA publisher to push back their game until it's fixed.

 

[amstradcpc]

lets be honest here: how the hell is sony going to enforce that? they would need to hire a new line of testers and equipment, that just focus on performance (so, pretty much the digital foundry guys). to do that for every game, must be very time consuming and expensive.

Hiring Richard would be enough

 

[icespide]

Not to mention are you really going to tell Ubisoft or any AAA publisher to push back their game until it's fixed.

Not to mention a game they have a marketing deal with

 

[theonerayman]

Not to mention are you really going to tell Ubisoft or any AAA publisher to push back their game until it's fixed.

If sony has anything between their legs then yes. And right now they have the power. They hold the lions share of the console market. Not being able to put the game on their console is a hell of a trump card.

 

[S1kkZ]

Hiring Richard would be enough

maybe dark10x can comment on this, but i am pretty sure the df crew would die from exhaustion after 1 month.

 

[chromatic9]

What happened to the mandate that games should run at the same frame rate as the base unit?

Probably a bit of leeway until 2017. I'd expect devs to do a bit more testing. Pro mode has been foisted upon them.

Still should offer a vanilla option. You could also play with less power consumption and less heat/fan noise presumably. One should have the option to at least side step devs who don't do the Pro mode right.