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[cleveridea]

I remember when the Pro was announced that I felt bad that if I didnt upgrade my PS4, I would be playing the low quality versions of games.

How on earth is lower framerate and screen tearing acceptable here. Just have an option to remove the "enhancements" if they downgrade the experience.

 

[Boke1879]

You are not recognizing well the Pro market segment. You are talking precissely about the public that would happily run a slim.

Sure, but the pro is only $400. I can see many people buying it because it's quite cheap enough for a "premium" experience. And the knowledgeable people buying the pro probably are waiting anyway to see how it all pans out.

Again not to mention This game is still very playable and it looks better. You get a better looking game with a couple of frame drops here and there. Which could possibly be patched. Or stick with the OG or slim model and be ok with the locked framerate. Its the choice some will have to make.

But then there are plenty of games the perform the same if not better.

 

[Grimsen]

I need to watch this.

Was Richard impressed with the checkerboarded vagina textures?

 

[Arklite]

I like how the PS4 and PS4 Pro both have their struggle for 1080p gaming for two different reasons. C'mon man, there's no reason to be overshooting yourself to worse performance.

 

[Fisty]

If sony has anything between their legs then yes. And right now they have the power. They hold the lions share of the console market. Not being able to put the game on their console is a hell of a trump card.

Lol they have something between their ears, so they won't

You realize thinking devs would bend to their whims is why the PS3 was such a clusterfuck right

 

[SlimySnake]

lol he hit 26 fps when doing a stress test with the car doing donuts while being surrounded by cop cars. how often are you going to do that?

everything else was 30 fps.

These framerate issues bad on principle, but they dont affect the game in any meaningful way. The IQ boost with downsampling to 1080p is going to be huge.

 

[Boke1879]

If sony has anything between their legs then yes. And right now they have the power. They hold the lions share of the console market. Not being able to put the game on their console is a hell of a trump card.

BS. No one is going to do that. If that's the case you wouldn't have games right now on just the base PS4 and Xbox that perform under par.

Hell you would have delayed Witcher 3 in that case and no one was going to do that.

 

[amstradcpc]

I like how the PS4 and PS4 Pro both have their struggle for 1080p gaming for two different reasons. C'mon man, there's no reason to be overshooting yourself to worse performance.

Is curious that TV native resolutions are always the less used in gaming
Few native 720 games, few native 1080p games and few native 4K games...when we all buy our shinny 4K pannels the rage will be 8k approximations.

 

[DeVeAn]

I don't think plumping for a Slim instead and getting sub-1080p visuals and worse framerates for many games just because the Pro has a few minor kinks at launch is an informed decision.

This won't be the first nor the last Ubisoft game that gets a performance patch either, so again, storm in a teacup.

it was marketed as improved PS4 games with a patch and later built in. Not as downgraded versions. Certain games are having the opposite effect.

 

[EmiPrime]

Sony: "Your game failed certification."
Dev: "Dude. Why."
Sony: "Our tester used every explosive in their inventory on level 3 in the middle of the city and the game dropped to 28fps. Please dynamically reduce the resolution to 720p for this use case then resubmit."
Dev: "Arrogant Sony is back."

 

[etta]

In a way it's good that Scorpio was announced so early, so devs aren't rushing the patches for launch-window releases. That should minimize these types of issues.

And weren't devs supposed to not have worse performance on the Pro than base PS4?

 

[CorruptionDee]

It's still very early in the lifespan of the PS4 Pro. The system has only been out for a few days. I'm sure developers will get the hang of the improved GPU and make the right decisions in the future. Sure the GPU is much more powerful, but we're still using a weak Jaguar core setup, which acts as a bottleneck at 1080p, let alone resolutions up to 4K.

Seeing games perform worse due to Sony's insistence of running at higher resolutions is troubling. Tomb Raider and the upcoming Final Fantasy have it right, by allowing the user to choose between different settings. Hopefully issues with these early enhanced games will be ironed out sooner, rather than later.

 

[Gnasher]

Ouch, worse than normal PS4 is pretty embarrassing.

 

[rawd]

Sony: "Your game failed certification."
Dev: "Dude. Why."
Sony: "Our tester used every explosive in their inventory on level 3 in the middle of the city and the game dropped to 28fps. Please dynamically reduce the resolution to 720p for this use case then resubmit."
Dev: "Arrogant Sony is back."

amazing

 

[Kenzodielocke]

In a way it's good that Scorpio was announced so early, so devs aren't rushing the patches for launch-window releases. That should minimize these types of issues.

And weren't devs supposed to not have worse performance on the Pro than base PS4?

Every console launch has games with performance issues.

 

[Cyriades]

I've been playing it for a while now and it runs just fine on pro.

This is what people fell to understand... These tests are done with tech equipment. A lot of this wouldn't even be noticeable to us.

 

[Equanimity]

In a way it's good that Scorpio was announced so early, so devs aren't rushing the patches for launch-window releases. That should minimize these types of issues.

And weren't devs supposed to not have worse performance on the Pro than base PS4?

Scorpio is kind of irrelevant to this thread but okay.

Yeah devs were apparently mandated to either have similar or better frame-rates on the Pro model.

 

[theonerayman]

Lol they have something between their ears, so they won't

You realize thinking devs would bend to their whims is why the PS3 was such a clusterfuck right

We shall see. The bad publicity is what's going to get out. Give it a day or two and every major gaming site is going to have a story about how some PS4 Pro games, including new ones that are coming out after the console run WORSE than the base model. If we haven't learned ANYTHING else over the last 15 months we need to have learned that the truth doesn't matter. If you make a big enough story out of half truths or only part of the truth that is what people will believe. And all it takes is the THOUGHT to the general public that this console works worse across all games (when even though that isn't the truth) then it wont sell. You have ONE chance to make a first impression and you don't want that impression to be "Oh the cheaper version runs it better, I'll go with that"

People on Gaf are going to know the truth, but we are a SERIOUS minority in the gaming community. When little Bobby's mom does 5 minutes of research and sees the cheaper box does better, she buys the cheaper one.

 

[Fisty]

In a way it's good that Scorpio was announced so early, so devs aren't rushing the patches for launch-window releases. That should minimize these types of issues.

And weren't devs supposed to not have worse performance on the Pro than base PS4?

Yep as long as you give devs a CGI render of your chip a year before launch, they won't have any issues increasing performance. Guess that's why they wrote "4K" on that Scorpio chip, so the devs know what to shoot for

 

[Boke1879]

In a way it's good that Scorpio was announced so early, so devs aren't rushing the patches for launch-window releases. That should minimize these types of issues.

And weren't devs supposed to not have worse performance on the Pro than base PS4?

Eh I still think Scorpio is going to have it's growing pains. Devs will have to plan for 3 sku's and regardless of the power Scorpio has the games being made will still be married to the base Xbox One. So we'll see.

If anything I'd rather devs deal with these growing pains now

 

[etta]

Every console launch has games with performance issues.

Sure, but the Pro is same architecture and API as the base PS4, there's a very large overlap.

Scorpio is kind of irrelevant to this thread but okay.

Yeah devs were "supposed" to have either same or better frame-rates.

How is it irrelevant? You don't think some of these patches were results of rush jobs?

 

[Gamerman1]

2-3 fps drop when doing donuts in a car...ehh. Ubisoft is to blame here not the Pro. Clear they didn't optimize any Pro performance. They spent most time optimizing on the normal PS4 as it will sell the most on there. Now they should look into optimizing Pro performance or maybe giving some options for locking framerate where it can adjust settings on the fly.

 

[nOoblet16]

In a way it's good that Scorpio was announced so early, so devs aren't rushing the patches for launch-window releases. That should minimize these types of issues.

And weren't devs supposed to not have worse performance on the Pro than base PS4?

Just because it was announced mere months before launch it doesn't mean developers were not aware of it. And just because Scorpio was announced early doesn't mean developers have more time to work on the hardware compared to Pro. It all depends on when they get the dev kit and that is not dependent on announcements at all.

Plus if you remember then you'll recall that Pro rumors came before Scorpio.

 

[Boke1879]

We shall see. The bad publicity is what's going to get out. Give it a day or two and every major gaming site is going to have a story about how some PS4 Pro games, including new ones that are coming out after the console run WORSE than the base model. If we haven't learned ANYTHING else over the last 15 months we need to have learned that the truth doesn't matter. If you make a big enough story out of half truths or only part of the truth that is what people will believe. And all it takes is the THOUGHT to the general public that this console works worse across all games (when even though that isn't the truth) then it wont sell. You have ONE chance to make a first impression and you don't want that impression to be "Oh the cheaper version runs it better, I'll go with that"

People on Gaf are going to know the truth, but we are a SERIOUS minority in the gaming community. When little Bobby's mom does 5 minutes of research and sees the cheaper box does better, she buys the cheaper one.

Gonna honest with ya. The gaming populace really doesn't care. The Slim will sell more, but with the Pro being 100 bucks more people will flock to it as well. They'll look at it as a console that make games look prettier. Most gamers either won't notice or care about 3 frame drops here and there. Especially when people who have it say it's running fine. I mean people bought fallout 4 in droves and that game had tons of hitches. Most people just don't care.

 

[Lucreto]

I am not a stickler for perfect framerate. Once the game doesn't completely stops for half a second it will be fine with me.

 

[ASilentProtagonist]

"PS4 Pro dropping more frames and screen tearing in stress test areas in comparison to the base PS4"

I don't have a Pro, regardless this needs to stop.

 

[NullPointer]

So more tearing and framedrops on the Pro version than the base PS4, even at 1080p?

What a mess.

 

[Arklite]

Sure, but the Pro is same architecture and API as the base PS4, there's a very large overlap.

How is it irrelevant? You don't think some of these patches were results of rush jobs?

Every game with this issue has been an overshot on resolution. Patch the res and the Pro is set.

And badly optimized new games are not uncommon on these 3 year old consoles. Early reveals don't guarantee you anything.

 

[Afrikan]

stress testing situations....

compared to majority to of your actual experience?

I mean 4K checkerboarding (they say it looks great)...and downsampling (for 1080p users) I personally don't have a issue with that as a trade off for framerate taking a small hit every once in a while during crazy situations.

but again thats just me.

if it was the majority of the gameplay,. hell yes that would be a deal breaker.

 

[Gamerman1]

Developers need to allow 1080p NATIVE rendering on the PRO without down sampling 4k/1800p whatever. And with that native rendering add a couple options to the game settings like FSAA, Lock FPS, Unlock FPS, Increase Anistropic Filtering, Better Shadows. Draw distance. Don't need to kitchen sink it. Just a few options that can make a difference in overall quality. Maybe even AUTO Performance and AUTO Quality dynamic settings to cut out the use of too many settings.

 

[NullPointer]

As a framerate whore the PS4 Pro is really looking like some bullshit right now.

As if we needed another avenue for devs to push visuals at the expense of performance.

And once you have players clamoring for the option to run PS4 "enhanced" games in base PS4 mode you know you've well and truly fucked up the whole idea.

 

[AEREC]

This running slower than base PS4 business is becoming bullshit. It looks incredbly bad for the Pro.

Shit like this makes me regret trading in my OGPS4 for a Pro but then I remember how much improved Battlefield 1 is.

Not planning on getting WD2 anyways, but I do hope the worse performance on Pro is just because it was shoehorned in a the last minute. Which also makes me worried for FFXV, but at least they included a OGPS4 mode for the Pro (lightweight mode).

 

[golem]

stress testing situations....

compared to majority to of your actual experience?

if it was the majority of the gameplay,. hell yes that would be a deal breaker.

I dont know if you watched the actual DF video but the scene right before the donuts stress testing shows dropped frames and tears just driving down a normal street in the city itself.

Bad ubisoft.

 

[Unknown?]

In a way it's good that Scorpio was announced so early, so devs aren't rushing the patches for launch-window releases. That should minimize these types of issues.

And weren't devs supposed to not have worse performance on the Pro than base PS4?

Doesn't mean they have dev kits so...

 

[TheGreyHulk]

I wish games would allow a simple 1080p rendering path in addition to the what seems to be common, 1800p checkerboard path.

I'd be perfectly fine playing this game and FFXV at a more solid 1080p rate than 1800p checkerboard.

Hopefully this trend doesn't continue and devs will provide more options for pro users.

 

[Lighthouse]

Sony really needs to get ahead of this. Absolutely terrible precedent to set at the beginning of the pro era. Pathetic.

As a framerate whore the PS4 Pro is really looking like some bullshit right now.

As if we needed another avenue for devs to push visuals at the expense of performance.

And once you have players clamoring for the option to run PS4 "enhanced" games in base PS4 mode you know you've well and truly fucked up the whole idea.

Amen brother.

 

[Equanimity]

Sure, but the Pro is same architecture and API as the base PS4, there's a very large overlap.

How is it irrelevant? You don't think some of these patches were results of rush jobs?

I do. But discussing Project Scorpio in our context is irrelevant at this point. We've only seen a CG render. And announcing something early doesn't really promise anything in regards to patches, does it?

 

[Equanimity]

As a framerate whore the PS4 Pro is really looking like some bullshit right now.

As if we needed another avenue for devs to push visuals at the expense of performance.

And once you have players clamoring for the option to run PS4 "enhanced" games in base PS4 mode you know you've well and truly fucked up the whole idea.

Don't forget the plethora of games that improve image quality and frame rates on the PS4 Pro. I'm sure Ubisoft will iron out these issues soon.

Sorry for double post.

 

[Karak]

Ya pretty much identical to what I saw for my review of it.
I tested on the Xbox, Xbox s(just in case, PS4 and PS4 pro and while cleaner it was odd that the pro felt the worst when it came to control and this is exactly what I felt.

 

[Equanimity]

Ya pretty much identical to what I saw for my review of it.

I see. Did you play with a patch installed?

 

[Frag Waffles]

Very glad I held off on buying a pro right away. It looks like Sony needs to coordinate with devs better and figure this out.

Also what is the future of these titles that are coming in at worse frame rates now like this and TLOU? Hope they eventually get patched down the line? Yikes. Hope this is worked out soon.

 

[R_thanatos]

Well i'll just postpone my PS4 pro purchase by 2 or 3 months untill i see what is the trend for all those releases ( any patches , any future releases with or without the same problems ).

It's disapointing really.

 

[mullet2000]

Devs join hands and say it with me:

If 👏 your 👏 game 👏 runs 👏 worse 👏 on 👏 pro

Lower 👏 the 👏 resolution 👏 a bit 👏 bro

You 👏 don't 👏 have 👏 to make 👏 your game 👏 1800p

1440 👏 is 👏 fine 👏 with 👏 me

 

[Arklite]

As a framerate whore the PS4 Pro is really looking like some bullshit right now.

As if we needed another avenue for devs to push visuals at the expense of performance.

And once you have players clamoring for the option to run PS4 "enhanced" games in base PS4 mode you know you've well and truly fucked up the whole idea.

I don't know about people's reactions, but any 'enhanced' mode going forward is looking like a giant mixed bag considering it's all up to what the devs want to achieve or bother doing.

There's games like FFXV performing perfectly and aiming for higher rates, then WD2 unable to keep the same frame performance, and then Tomb Raider offering a smattering of modes each with pros and cons. With the PS4 being the real base that devs target, the Pro's advantages might remain uneven.

 

[texhnolyze]

I remember when the Pro was announced that I felt bad that if I didnt upgrade my PS4, I would be playing the low quality versions of games.

How on earth is lower framerate and screen tearing acceptable here. Just have an option to remove the "enhancements" if they downgrade the experience.

Having a bad taste is actually a gift.

 

[EGM1966]

it was marketed as improved PS4 games with a patch and later built in. Not as downgraded versions. Certain games are having the opposite effect.

If you buy at launch based on early titles with late support you're obviously going to have to take a risk.

It's most likely the majority of titles (as already seem to be the case) will have better performance no matter what.

But if you need certainty then don't buy at launch.

Of course you'll always get done exceptions do really if you're going to demand 100% result you're going to be disappointed.

But I really wouldn't try and judge much from titles with varying degrees of Pro support at launch. Most will have support added pretty late in development.

 

[YuriLowell]

So 4 games run worse on the Pro now.

Watch Dogs 2, Skyrim, Dishonored 2, and Deus Ex.

 

[Equanimity]

So 4 games run worse on the Pro now.

Watch Dogs 2, Skyrim, Dishonored 2, and Deus Ex.

Dishonoured 2 runs worse? Source please.

 

[NullPointer]

With the PS4 being the real base that devs target, the Pro's advantages might remain uneven.

Which undermines the Pro's entire selling point. Its not marketed as a side-grade with its own trade-offs, but as an 'enhancement', a 'boost' to visuals and framerate, on new 'super charged' hardware over the 'base' model.

Sony is allowing the ball to be dropped here.

So I guess we have all the proof we need that the leaked documents that spoke of a requirement that the Pro perform at least as good as the base in terms of framerate just isn't operative, or isn't being enforced.

 

[YuriLowell]

Dishonoured 2 runs worse? Source please.

People in the 1080p thread are reporting framepacing issues.