DonMigs85
Member
Don't you mean CRT?
Anyway I'm pretty sure both Sony and Microsoft will include HDMI cables next gen, and most likely leave out composite at long last.
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Wii U Cannot Display Images Correctly on 4:3 SDTVs
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Anyway I'm pretty sure both Sony and Microsoft will include HDMI cables next gen, and most likely leave out composite at long last.
And the GamePad is much closer than the TV. Your point?
XANDER CAGE
Member
I feel like supporting SDTV was still important back when the 360/PS3 launched, but now I really don't think it's a huge issue. Old TVs have to be phased out at some point, and I think 2012 is a reasonable date for an HD console to not support SD televisions.
Pretty sure that was sarcasm.
You sell your old tv, its not like you just throw it out.
Smiles and Cries
Member
and I feel bad that my TV is only 720p
Because SD is a dead technology and some of us care about image quality?
DonMigs85
Member
That's fine unless it's bigger than 42 inches or you sit really close to it.
I wouldn't if you only console game, since most are only 720p anyway and will actually look better on you TV than a lot of 1080p sets. But if you watch Blu-Rays I'd upgrade.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Try using widescreen as the text shown seems to indicate the issue isn't present in that mode, and you don't imply that you included trying this in all the things you tried when attempting to fix it. You might lose screen real estate but it could also result in a sharper image if it works the same way as, for example, games like Wii's Xenoblade which run in widescreen regardless of the mode you've selected for your Wii but if you actually set that to widescreen the Wii doesn't have to also render the black bars, leaving that to the TV, so it's using its full res for the game itself only, making things look nicer as especially evident in the various menu screens where text is almost unreadable when not doing this but perfectly fine otherwise. It might not be ideal but it should be acceptable if it works, I'm sure you've watched loads of movies that weren't fullscreen on your set for example.
Lowest Common Denominator, in this case what kind of connections everyone has. And at this point most everyone has at least something that can take in a composite signal, but not necessarily component or HDMI. Ergo, safest to include composite cables as at least you can play the console, even if it looks like a piece of shit as a result.
Yeah, that acronym's a problem in a topic about displays.
The Faceless Master
Member
yeah, i remember GAF used to have threads on how game X or game Y on PS3 or 360 was letterboxed on their 4:3 TV and how the text was unreadable... wasn't there some big issue with Dead Rising?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Wii titles and especially Wii VC title are made for 480p screens, especially CRT like TV's. SNES titles + 21'' LCD over component = yucks. Guess what? Nintendo supports those TV's badly and Wii VC titles cannot go on the GamePad either...
grap3fruitman
Banned
If you cared about image quality, you'd be sticking to your CRT. =P
Smiles and Cries
Member
50" and I sit like 4 feet away
It's not a bad thing I just really want to upgrade in a year or so.
pretty much just gaming. If we get an HD Zelda in 1080p or the next Monolith Soft RPG in 1080p that would require an upgrade but you are right. I doubt Wii U will leave 720p anytime soon for major titles.
SomeOneInaHat
Member
Have you ever tried to play old school games on an HD TV?
The screen lag is horrific.
This as well
I wouldn't say horrific, though maybe I picked a good TV for retro games and input lag or I'm not as discerning (or used terrible examples, Chrono Trigger was the one game I replayed at length on my HDTV and that has little need for good reflexes). I only really had an issue with timing based games like Guitar Hero and especially Space Channel, and I'm not the best at rhythm stuff anyway.
False. Anything is going to look like shit on an SDTV from a modern console.
Though HD console games look fucking amazing on a good CRT computer monitor if you don't mind letterboxing. Playing Xbox 360 games on my Viewsonic a91f+ was awesome before it died (I miss that monitor...). But those aren't SD displays, so...
secretanchitman
Member
i get why and it sucks. in 2006, i would have agreed with you, but now its the end of 2012 and 2013 is about to start - hdtv's have been the norm for a long time. if nintendo is pushing hd, there is just no reason to bother when mostly everyone has moved on to hd.
"the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few."
live with it, get a new tv, or play on the gamepad.
"the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few."
live with it, get a new tv, or play on the gamepad.
The problem is that this is a problem for a lot of HDTVs too. And given how much those costed many of us while still being superior (potentially) to newer cheap sets in IQ or at least features (even if it's just S-video to be more retro friendly) they're not very appealing to go replace. And it really can't hurt to put in an option to scale the image/HUD to fully fit on a screen, we're not talking about old computers that couldn't handle that kind of crap at all.
Smiles and Cries
Member
you can't prove that, no one owns those anymore to test it.
If you have a fancy 4:3 TV like that, I can almost guarantee you it has a 16:9 display option. My old 27" SDTV has that option, used to use it to play 360 games widescreen without characters appearing super thin.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Ok, but wait VC titles on the GamePad are not supported... And they look like ass on normal sized LCD TV's...
I am amazed at how this is getting to be a needs of the many vs needs of the few. It hurts the many if the few are not treated badly? Does it hurt you if they implement SDTV support well instead of screwing it up? Is it bad if there is also a way for home theaters with optical audio in and no LCPM audio support over HDMI?
Are not the many happy even if the few are happy too?
Ok small rant aside, you would have a point if satisfying the few would hurt the many a lot, but it would not give you a worse experience, it should not.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
VC support on the GamePad, would not hurt the many or the developers, audio out possible also on optical/analog connections by say keeping at least HDMI and analog input on at the same time or maybe implementing Dolby Digital or DPL2... It would have been more than enough as a good faith effort by Nintendo to embrace all gamers.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Um, who said it's about hurting the many, it's about who they even bother trying to attract by choosing what to work on within their scheduling limits, and that's the many in this case (if they succeeded or not is a different matter, that's the attempt). Telling me you've never heard of minorities getting screwed over to make this little thing so "amazing" to you tells me you live on Mars.
phosphor112
Banned
Bahahaha. Yeah. Ok.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I was replying to a poster saying "the needs of the many vs the needs of the few". That point does have merit when you do have to choose between satisfying the many or the few. Where I do not see a real need to choose, see the optical surround sound issue and the lack of GamePad support or lack of DVD playback on Wii etc..., I express my distaste for it.
It is not my fault that Nintendo does not have an Apple like grip on the supply chain and it has to squeeze few cents of cost out of every console because it has an issue with parts' cost.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Yes, nearly seven years ago.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
I own a wii, ps3, 360 all hooked up via svideo...
but ill drop 800+ every few years on new pc hardware.
all about priorities man....
Phife Dawg
Member
Well that sucks. That being said even my old ass SD TV was 16:9.
Dreamwriter
Member
That's what I said in my quote - there are only two possible ways to do an OS level of overscan adjustment. The one way is to force games to never draw anything outside of the title-safe zone. The other way is to scale the image of gameplay to shrink the image to fit within the overscan region. That "solution" would hurt performance and make games look worse, thus it is a horrible option to do globally.
The best solution, as I said, is for game developers to account for it in the placement of important visual data on the screen, or to offer options to move the visual data - that way neither image quality nor performance suffers. Or if the developer doesn't care about hurting their performance and visual quality, they can have an option to scale the graphics down.
DonMigs85
Member
Madness
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Hurt performance? You already scale the image for the GamePad if you do mirroring (and in that case you have less pixels to do the scaling op on) and simple image scaling is something quite negligible on modern GPU's.
I do not think Nintendo does not have overscan safe guidelines for their 720p/1080p games, just like Sony and MS, they probably have some requirements for GUI positioning and all. So, I do not think an OS level option would be needed for HD resolutions or 16:9 aspect ratio monitors at all.
This global scaling option would only be needed for you would only need to do it for people gaming on TV sets which mostly do not support HD resolutions so you are already rendering at a lower resolution than you normally would and in that 720p to 480p rendering resolution jump you free MUCH more processing power to do more than simply a single full screen image scaling operation.
Phife Dawg
Member
My SDTV was 16:9.
Dreamwriter
Member
In some cases scaling can have negligible impact on performance, and in other cases it can make a noticable impact. All depends on the game. It would also require Nintendo not give the game developer full control over the rendering hardware, which is definitely bad.
And no, a game isn't required to have any code scaling an image before sending it to the Gamepad (some games do it, some don't).
I just don't see why making these compromises would be needed, when it's much better just to design your game to not put critical data where it could be overscanned, or add in an overscan-adjustment option that lets the player adjust the positioning of the HUD.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
my current sharp tv is about to die tho (svideo loses color, and the right speaker occasionally), If I can get a good hdtv for 32+ inchs for $300 (basically what my sharp cost me in 2002) and under Ill get one soon. I was gonna get one years ago and gaf was trying to sell me some trumped up 23 inch pc monitors as a replacement for $300, i guffawed at them.
Dreamwriter
Member
I wouldn't say those "run circles around any consumer TV set in existence", they cannot render every pixel in 1080i or 1080p, particularly if there is lots of motion on the screen. Admittedly they could come close - a static image could render around 1400x1080 unique pixels, whereas 1080i/p is 1920x1080. And while CRT was better technology in the past due to its superior contrast and refresh rate, modern LCD's (and most definitely plasma's) have fixed those issues.
Nintendo Y U NO MAKE SOMETHING THAT WORKS WITH EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE LOVES???
Lapidus' Beard
Member
So after 6 years of moaning that the Wii wasn't HD, now it's moaning about the Wii U not supporting SD? Oh you gamers.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
because that would cost them money and rely on approriate hardware development instead of childhood nostalgia...
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