The thing is that most people on this board and in the gaming press already have their minds made up about Cage and his games before they even play them. The biggest criticism leveled at his work is the amateurish nature of his storytelling. I guarantee you if he hired a legit writer that has had various writing accolades hoisted upon him or her people would still say that the writing is an issue. People simply do not take serious stories seriously in gaming. This is an industry that has stated that GTAiV was Oscar worthy. That's all you need to know about taste and critical professionalism in this industry.
And a million other games. Nier isn't even close to NeoGAFs game of the generation. It did not even win GOTY of its respective year.
Further, Nier sucks. Apparently I have to play through the garbage gameplay multiple times to get the full story and appreciate it. Haha, nice joke GAFers who recommended the game to me
I was going by a thread that was made in january I think and Nier got mentionned a lot. Not saying that Beyond two souls will also get this reception, but I find it funny that Heavy Rain wasnt mentionned often.
And a million other games. Nier isn't even close to NeoGAFs game of the generation. It did not even win GOTY of its respective year.
Further, Nier sucks. Apparently I have to play through the garbage gameplay multiple times to get the full story and appreciate it. Haha, nice joke GAFers who recommended the game to me >:(
You can't really compare the install base though. In this day and age, you could release the phonebook on PS3 and it would still outsell any Wii U game
At least did Cage realize that he needs help. I always felt like he's pretty good at writing certain scenarios (Fahrenheit opening, the trials in Heavy Rain, Kara tech-demo etc.) but really, really bad at bringing those things together.
That's the only part of Heavy Rain that ever really 'clicked' with me and properly mixed the storyline with player inputs I felt. Everything else was conceptually interesting scenes where player interaction felt largely pointless which were further undone by terrible writing and VA-work.
Really don't know what to think of Beyond; everything I read seems to simultaneously admit it avoids or fixes most of the problems HR had, but it's still somehow a bad experience? Wish I could see how somebody who hated HR seriously felt about Beyond, because most of the sources giving Beyond low scores were the same places I remember falling over themselves to overrate HR.
just picked it up from gamestop. I hope its good. If not i'll just trade it in and lose 15. I'll put it towards something more worthy like SMB3D or Dead Rising
Well it looks like I will rent this game like I did with Heavy Rain. Playing something that is more in line of a scripted story-telling experience rather than a game is fine but not something I would pay $60 for.
He also put out hiring feelers for "screenwriters, film directors and other Hollywood talent " to guide David Cage's PS4 game. Which you can read about here.
That inspires hope.
Although as i said i enjoyed his previous games, in a "so bad it's good" fashion.
Had plenty of laughs with both Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain, so i'm kind of sad to see that go away, but i think gaming needs decent stories more than it needs laughable ones, i guess.
The thing is that most people on this board and in the gaming press already have their minds made up about Cage and his games before they even play them. The biggest criticism leveled at his work is the amateurish nature of his storytelling. I guarantee you if he hired a legit writer that has had various writing accolades hoisted upon him or her people would still say that the writing is an issue. People simply do not take serious stories seriously in gaming. This is an industry that has stated that GTAiV was Oscar worthy. That's all you need to know about taste and critical professionalism in this industry.
I believe if Beyond or Heavy Rain were small indie games made with cruder graphics they would be celebrated by Sterling and the gaming press. Yawn. Bashing Cage's games is more about hating the guy than his actual creative output.
I believe if Beyond or Heavy Rain were small indie games made with cruder graphics they would be celebrated by Sterling and the gaming press. Yawn. Bashing Cage's games is more about hating the guy than his actual creative output.
That's exactly how I feel. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a tremendous fan of Cage, but I think his presence in the industry is something that should be welcomed and I'm glad he's making games. I don't agree with everything he does or how he implements his ideas, but I'd rather play Beyond than Madden 107 or Call of Duty: Blow More Shit Up edition any day.
The thing is that most people on this board and in the gaming press already have their minds made up about Cage and his games before they even play them. The biggest criticism leveled at his work is the amateurish nature of his storytelling. I guarantee you if he hired a legit writer that has had various writing accolades hoisted upon him or her people would still say that the writing is an issue. People simply do not take serious stories seriously in gaming. This is an industry that has stated that GTAiV was Oscar worthy. That's all you need to know about taste and critical professionalism in this industry.
Heavy Rain did have shitty writing (not to mention Fahrenheit), and QD's games put an extreme pressure on the story, because the gameplay is so dependent on it.
Most other games, even if they have only decent or worse writing, have something else to fall back on.
I do think there's some level of prejudice going on, though.
I apologize because I'm sure this has been asked before (and I don't think you can search an individual thread on mobile, can you?), but I don't want to read the reviews and risk being spoiled. Do we know how long the game is? I'm thinking about just Redboxing it, but if it's too long I may just wait for the price to go down .
That's exactly how I feel. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a tremendous fan of Cage, but I think his presence in the industry is something that should be welcomed and I'm glad he's making games. I don't agree with everything he does or how he implements his ideas, but I'd rather play Beyond than Madden 107 or Call of Duty: Blow More Shit Up edition any day.
I apologize because I'm sure this has been asked before (and I don't think you can search an individual thread on mobile, can you?), but I don't want to read the reviews and risk being spoiled. Do we know how long the game is? I'm thinking about just Redboxing it, but if it's too long I may just wait for the price to go down .
That's exactly how I feel. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a tremendous fan of Cage, but I think his presence in the industry is something that should be welcomed and I'm glad he's making games. I don't agree with everything he does or how he implements his ideas, but I'd rather play Beyond than Madden 107 or Call of Duty: Blow More Shit Up edition any day.
I've heard the guy's speeches and in general his M.O seems to be about making sure video games becomes a medium that is respected as film or literature. How can I hate the guy for that? And yes his video games are serious but they're never pretentious, and they're always interesting.
That crybaby that rage-quitted the Beyond demo is exactly not the type of gamer Cage is trying to reach with games. I can't survive in an industry that only puts out boring first person shooters.
I loved Heavy Rain, and with the review scores being all over the place it really seems like a game you have to play to know if it's for you (unless you are just against this type of game or QD/Cage).
I'm a bit confused. Though I played only like 5 min of the demo, I felt it was like HR (which I enjoyed). Is this an inherently worse game than HR or did reviewers not want another game like HR?
I believe if Beyond or Heavy Rain were small indie games made with cruder graphics they would be celebrated by Sterling and the gaming press. Yawn. Bashing Cage's games is more about hating the guy than his actual creative output.
The thing is that most people on this board and in the gaming press already have their minds made up about Cage and his games before they even play them. The biggest criticism leveled at his work is the amateurish nature of his storytelling. I guarantee you if he hired a legit writer that has had various writing accolades hoisted upon him or her people would still say that the writing is an issue. People simply do not take serious stories seriously in gaming. This is an industry that has stated that GTAiV was Oscar worthy. That's all you need to know about taste and critical professionalism in this industry.
These are both incredibly lazy approaches to people have spent a great amount of detail examining exactly why the game has issues. I say fuck reviews as much as the next person, but only because I don't know who to trust after the scandals. But if I am to say a critic is wrong or hating just to hate, I would attempt to explain WHY that is, not try to invent bullshit stories about how they must have prejudged the game or wished it was indie or fucking hate David Cage. You say this stuff to make yourselves feel better, not to weigh the value of the critiques.
Trying to say everyone made up their mind about the game, doesn't like serious stories, would have reviewed the game well if it was indie (da fug?), etc is just reductionist nonsense meant to make one feel like they have a better understanding about why people don't feel the same way they do about products they like or respect.
Jim Sterling eviscerated the game and listed many critical problems, none of which I can find any prejudgment over and none of which I personally can dispute because a.) i havent played the final product, and neither has most of the rest of us and b.) it seems to be generally well supported by his text, whether I agreed with it or not.
If people have issues with the actual criticisms, that's one thing. Take issue with it, tell us how they're wrong, explain why people are approaching this product from the wrong direction.
Trying to wholesale dismiss all or even most critics for the reasons you two did is just completely off the wall. Criticism is more about hating David Cage than his work? I mean, who the fuck do you think you're kidding, fyng? Do the endless almost excessively detailed breakdowns of where Heavy Rain went wrong not convincing enough for you? Do you somehow believe you are the only one with an authentic position on their titles? Ridiculous.
And you, Wreckage. Trying to paint the ENTIRE INDUSTRY with the GTAIV 'oscar quote' in order to dismiss the vast majority of people who have been critical, which includes GAFers and more is just so beyond thoughtless I don't even know how to respond. Did you preview your quote before you posted? In what universe did you think you were making a good point? It is the writing ITSELF that people consistently tear apart. If the writing was exactly the same and it was by fucking Charlie Kaufman instead, it would still fucking suck to most of these people.
I loved Heavy Rain, and with the review scores being all over the place it really seems like a game you have to play to know if it's for you (unless you are just against this type of game or QD/Cage).
I'm a bit confused. Though I played only like 5 min of the demo, I felt it was like HR (which I enjoyed). Is this an inherently worse game than HR or did reviewers not want another game like HR?
It, like HR, is going to be based much more on the quality and presentation of the story. So not everyone who liked what HR did will feel the same here, and vice versa.
I played the first two hours of it on a Redbox copy and plan to Gamefly it later to check out the whole thing. I only played the first two hours but I could tell the reviews would be mixed.
I find the story fairly engrossing, but I can see where people are having the problem with it being an "interactive movie" because it basically is. I am interested in wanting to see what would happen in I chose a different action at parts, but I have a feeling it wouldn't affect the overall narrative.
The best thing he can do for himself is let go of his ego and hand off the writing to somebody else, or at least co-write closely with somebody who has writing experience. From what I understand he's credited as the sole writer when clearly he's not cut out for that. His games' weakest aspect is their writing.
Hopefully he uses this as a learning experience and at the very least takes some serious writing courses.
Can't wait to get this. Divisive games are not always bad, and I wouldn't have expected any less from a David Cage game. I enjoyed Heavy Rain a lot, and I'll be hoping to do the same here.
i actually have an idea for a game that might require some of the things they're good at, but also would be combined with totally different types of genre.
It would be a survival game first of all. Few major characters, it'd be a mother and her son and daughter, a stranger and his friend, and a handful of others. 12 in all. The daughter of the Mom would be the main protagonist. The game first is about the brutality of survival and what it turns men into. There'd be a trust/social system where you can form bonds (gather food together to reduce load or delegate work so that you meet common goals) or make plans against a fellow survivor (lay traps, create "accidents", etc).
There would be a story. On many nights the survivors will return to the fireplace and share stories about their past lives, their hopes for the future, etc. It will be very choice driven and you can guide the conversation toward details you want to learn, which may or may not help you earn the trust of others or manipulate others in the future.
One by one, people will die. What order and how they die will depend on how you spent your resources and delegated tasks. You can prolong the survival for a long time, but eventually the resources of the limited area you're in will diminish to the point where decisions will have to be made.
Ultimately, I want to provide a finale for which people have no idea how they would react. For example, one of the scenarios - depending on how you play the game - would lead to
a mother dying, her last wish being that her kids eat her flesh so that they may have a chance of surviving. Would you do it? Could you after you built a relationship with them?
I can foresee some of Quantic Dream and DC's specialty being helpful in the development of a game like this.
In some way that almost gave me a Walking Dead vibe. I also think you wouldn't even need some $50 million budget when you got the right story and setting. That's where you'll get the player to feel something, not from 50.000 polygons per character. Lots of Indie games already proved that.
These are both incredibly lazy approaches to people have spent a great amount of detail examining exactly why the game has issues. I say fuck reviews as much as the next person, but only because I don't know who to trust after the scandals. But if I am to say a critic is wrong or hating just to hate, I would attempt to explain WHY that is, not try to invent bullshit stories about how they must have prejudged the game or wished it was indie or fucking hate David Cage. You say this stuff to make yourselves feel better, not to weigh the value of the critiques.
Trying to say everyone made up their mind about the game, doesn't like serious stories, would have reviewed the game well if it was indie (da fug?), etc is just reductionist nonsense meant to make one feel like they have a better understanding about why people don't feel the same way they do about products they like or respect.
Jim Sterling eviscerated the game and listed many critical problems, none of which I can find any prejudgment over and none of which I personally can dispute because a.) i havent played the final product, and neither has most of the rest of us and b.) it seems to be generally well supported by his text, whether I agreed with it or not.
If people have issues with the actual criticisms, that's one thing. Take issue with it, tell us how they're wrong, explain why people are approaching this product from the wrong direction.
Trying to wholesale dismiss all or even most critics for the reasons you two did is just completely off the wall. Criticism is more about hating David Cage than his work? I mean, who the fuck do you think you're kidding, fyng? Do the endless almost excessively detailed breakdowns of where Heavy Rain went wrong not convincing enough for you? Do you somehow believe you are the only one with an authentic position on their titles? Ridiculous.
And you, Wreckage. Trying to paint the ENTIRE INDUSTRY with the GTAIV 'oscar quote' in order to dismiss the vast majority of people who have been critical, which includes GAFers and more is just so beyond thoughtless I don't even know how to respond. Did you preview your quote before you posted? In what universe did you think you were making a good point? It is the writing ITSELF that people consistently tear apart. If the writing was exactly the same and it was by fucking Charlie Kaufman instead, it would still fucking suck to most of these people.
I absolutely fucking refuse to engage in a conversation with you, of all people, when it comes to Cage and his games. Your opinion on Cage and his games has been duly noted because you scream from mountaintops, unprovoked, every single time you're given an opportunity. Whine some more to someone that actually cares. Your little M.O. of trying to browbeat anyone that disagrees with you with walls upon walls of text may work on some of the other posters here, but I've been around long enough not to take you seriously and I'm not taking the bait.
For people who have completed the game, how much time does it take to get the rest of the endings? Do you have to start from the beginning each time or is it literally just jumping back to a certain choice and picking something different each time? Not sure if I should just try finishing the story once or it's worth getting all of the endings.
I absolutely fucking refuse to engage in a conversation with you, of all people, when it comes to Cage and his games. Your opinion on Cage and his games has been duly noted because you scream from mountaintops, unprovoked, every single time you're given an opportunity. Whine some more to someone that actually cares.
Proves my point implicitly. You don't like people who are negative about something you respect, so you avoid all engagement and stick to hiding your fucking head in the sand by painting people into 'categories' so that your absurd worldview is somehow more palatable. Show some fucking respect for your fellow posters and give them the time of day to actually put some effort into what you say. Truly pathetic that you would try to dismiss the effort and criticisms they've had by pretending they're invalid or have some ulterior motive.
The best thing he can do for himself is let go of his ego and hand off the writing to somebody else, or at least co-write closely with somebody who has writing experience. From what I understand he's credited as the sole writer when clearly he's not cut out for that. His games' weakest aspect is their writing.
Hopefully he uses this as a learning experience and at the very least takes some serious writing courses.
Proves my point implicitly. You don't like people who are negative about something you respect, so you avoid all engagement and stick to hiding your fucking head in the sand by painting people into 'categories' so that your absurd worldview is somehow more palatable. Show some fucking respect for your fellow posters and give them the time of day to actually put some effort into what you say. Truly pathetic that you would try to dismiss the effort and criticisms they've had by pretending they're invalid or have some ulterior motive.
Again, I'm not taking the bait. Anyone that has posted here long enough knows your M.O. In your mind, you can't lose an argument. You post walls upon walls of text to try to brow beat people and you were even demodded because of fabricating and altering posts because you can't lose. So no, I'm not interested in engaging a conversation with you. Take your passionate pleas and encyclopedic posts and dazzle someone else with it. Your efforts to disparage me are irrelevant because at least I wasn't demodded for being a total scourge.
Again, I'm not taking the bait. Anyone that has posted here long enough knows your M.O. In your mind, you can't lose an argument. You post walls upon walls of text to try to brow beat people and you were even demodded because of fabricating and altering posts because you can't lose. So no, I'm not interested in engaging a conversation with you. Take your passionate pleas and encyclopedic posts and dazzle someone else with it. Your efforts to disparage me are irrelevant because at least I wasn't demodded for being a total scourge.
There is no bait. You either respect your fellow posters and gamers enough to respect their criticisms for what they are and respond to those criticisms, or you don't. Or you do exactly what you did, try to invent bullshit scenarios for why they reacted the way they did toward these games, reduce everyone's motive to some comical conspiracy, and then try to act all indignant when the person calling you out is someone you don't like because I batted you around during a Heavy Rain debate in the past.
Get over it because it doesn't matter who is delivering the message: what you said above was disrespectful to your fellow posters and gamers and showed extreme thoughtlessness. The exact opposite of what GAF should be about. If I said the sun is hot, it's hot, whether you like who is delivering the message or not.
I absolutely fucking refuse to engage in a conversation with you, of all people, when it comes to Cage and his games. Your opinion on Cage and his games has been duly noted because you scream from mountaintops, unprovoked, every single time you're given an opportunity. Whine some more to someone that actually cares. Your little M.O. of trying to browbeat anyone that disagrees with you with walls upon walls of text may work on some of the other posters here, but I've been around long enough not to take you seriously and I'm not taking the bait.
There is no bait. You either respect your fellow posters and gamers enough to respect their criticisms for what they are and respond to those criticisms, or you don't. Or you do exactly what you did, try to invent bullshit scenarios for why they reacted the way they did toward these games, reduce everyone's motive to some comical conspiracy, and then try to act all indignant when the person calling you out is someone you don't like because I batted you around during a Heavy Rain debate in the past.
Get over it because it doesn't matter who is delivering the message: what you said above was disrespectful to your fellow posters and gamers and showed extreme thoughtlessness. The exact opposite of what GAF should be about. If I said the sun is hot, it's hot, whether you like who is delivering the message or not.
Don't throw stones in glass houses. You were demodded for being disrepectful toward people you had power over. It's funny how people that were taught a lesson in respect somehow feel like they can teach lessons of their own.
Don't throw stones in glass houses. You were demodded for being disrepectful toward people you had power over. It's funny how people that were taught a lesson in respect somehow feel like they can teach lessons of their own.
Again, notice how my comments are about your ill behavior here, and your comments about ill behavior of mine from well over a year ago. And that's all you can cling to, because you know what I'm saying is absolutely true. You're disrespecting your fellow gamers and posters because you don't want to accept their criticisms at face value. There's no other way to interpret it.
I should note I was demodded for wrong behavior and have been extremely forthcoming about the mistakes I made there (exact opposite of TheWreckage's behavior here); but the implicit truth is nobody would ever make TheWreckage a mod in the first place. I made a human mistake, pride and hubris. TheWreckage is not valuable enough to ever be considered.
But again, none of that matters. This isn't about anything in ages past. It's about THIS THREAD and what you did RIGHT HERE.
So far i also find the writing to be more enjoyable than HR. The talent on screen is of a higher caliber, so it could be that i just don't notice as many jarring lines because the delivery is solid.
I watched the entire game on YouTube (with some minor scrubbing past some of the more boring parts). I like the story, someone collect this into an AVI and I'm good. It didn't look interesting to play at all. Just poke poke poke with Aiden and walk and quicktime event as Ellen Page. That said I liked the story more than I thought I would. However the telling of it out of order isn't done with any reason to the narrative like Pulp Fiction... It's like they played 52 pickup with the script. But I didn't find it hard to stitch it together in my head as I watched. I would like an "in order of time" AVI stitched together and saved on my PC. No way I'm spending $60 on it now though. I feel like I got the best part of it already. Had a studio like Naughty Dog done the gameplay it would have been a masterpiece worthy of full retail. Perhaps I'll pick it up at $30 much later. I would have loved to play a superhero style game with Aiden's powers as well. I think this concept deserved to be more game than movie. It was well thought out.
