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[Cerium]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/02/brazil-dilma-rousseff-impeachment-proceedings

Brazil’s president Dilma Rousseff has begun the fight for her political life after the first impeachment proceedings for more than 20 years were launched against her in Congress.

After months of jockeying, the removal proceedings were pushed forward by her political nemesis – the lower house speaker Eduardo Cunha – as Brazil slipped deeper into a crisis that has hamstrung decision-making even while the economy suffers its worst downturn since the Great Depression.

On Wednesday night, Cunha finally gave the green light to an opposition motion for the country’s first female president to be ejected from office on allegations that she broke fiscal laws by window dressing government accounts ahead of her re-election last year.

Rousseff came out fighting. “I have received with indignation the decision by the head of the lower chamber to [launch] the impeachment process,” she said. “There is no wrongful act committed by me, nor are there any suspicions that I have misused public money.”

In a televised address to the nation, Rousseff expressed her “outrage” at Cunha’s decision and said there was no evidence of any wrongdoing by her.

“I’ve committed no illicit act, there is no suspicion hanging over me of any misuse of public money,” the president said. “I don’t have any offshore bank accounts, I have no hidden assets.” Her comment was a direct jab at Cunha, who has been charged with taking millions in bribes in connection to a kickbacks scheme that has embroiled state-run oil company Petrobras.

Activists from the ruling Workers Party accuse Cunha and his supporters of plotting a coup.

Earlier this year, Cunha acknowledged that an impeachment, which would be the first since 1992, would be a “backwards step for democracy”. For months, he has sat on more than half a dozen previous opposition proposals to remove an elected head of state who has served only one year of her four-year mandate.

However, he has changed his tone as his own position has come under threat. Julius Camargo, one of the whistleblowers in the Lava Jato investigation into corruption at Petrobras, has testified that the Cunha asked him for a $5m bribe – a claim that the speaker denies.

As pressure on Cunha mounted on Wednesday, he finally accepted a case lodged by opposition lawyers Hélio Bicudo, Miguel Reale and Janaína Paschoal.

It appeared at least partly motivated by self-defence, coming just hours after lawmakers the Workers party ethics committee announced plans to seek his dismissal on grounds of corruption.

The impeachment debate adds to an already long list of problems for the president: the worst scandal in the country’s history, popularity ratings that have slumped into single digits and a worsening recession.

The latest economic figures this week showed Brazil is now heading for its worst downturn since the Great Depression of the 1930s.

Unemployment is at a five-year high, inflation is nearly twice the government’s target, the value of wages has fallen about 5% since May 2014, and the nation’s GDP is forecast to shrink this year by about 4%

 

[jelly]

They need a World Cup like distraction.

Olympics 2016. She thought ahead and was very corrupt like FIFA and the Olympic Committee.

 

[Madness]

Crazy how the BRIC countries have all fizzled, actually India is one he upturn replacing China as the world's largest/fastest growing economy now, but I mean it just goes to show how quickly things change. For over a decade, we've been hearing about a multipolar world, how it's all over and yet, Russia's economy nose dived after it's proxy war in Ukraine and annexing the Crimea drawing sanctions, China had one of the worst stock market crashes in history with trillions of dollars gone, still hasn't recovered, same with Brazil now.

I don't doubt these countries still aren't the future, but it just goes to show you can't ever predict where the world will go or how quickly things can change.

 

[Blastoise]

Will the Olympics have to be transferred to another country?

 

[Alx]

Crazy how the BRIC countries have all fizzled, actually India is one he upturn replacing China as the world's largest/fastest growing economy now, but I mean it just goes to show how quickly things change.

Yep, I can remember so many examples of "wow this country is doing so great, everybody should take it as an example !" turning into "wow that same country is in the shitter, what happened ?" a few years later (or even sometimes the other way around).
Made me very suspicious of anything economists would say as the "right" way to handle a country.

 

[Syntsui]

She won't be impeached, being incompetent is not illegal. Whatever the Congress try to do, by not having anything illegal attached to her, the Supreme Court will hold it.

Those fiscal maneuvers were on the previous mandate and she can't be impeached for that. Also, EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENT since the democratization did fiscal maneuvers, this is a bullshit excuse for an impeachment.

 

[nacimento]

Lol, that gangster Cunha trying to save his own,head. He probably hopes the opposition MPs will vote against taking away his immunity.

 

[Lehow]

She won't be impeached, being incompetent is not illegal. Whatever the Congress try to do, by not having anything illegal attached to her, the Supreme Court will hold it.

Those fiscal maneuvers were on the previous mandate and she can't be impeached for that. Also, EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENT since the democratization did fiscal maneuvers, this is a bullshit excuse for an impeachment.

At least in Brazil impeachment is not a legal judgement, but a political judgment. That means doesn't matter if she committed a crime or not if the congress wants a impeachment they will have one. The Supreme Court also can't hold it too. The impeachment is a congress constitutional prerogative. Meaning they can't interfere as long as the constitutional proceedings are being met.

 

[Syntsui]

At least in Brazil impeachment is not a legal judgement, but a political judgment. That means doesn't matter if she committed a crime or not if the congress wants a impeachment they will have one. The Supreme Court also can't hold it too. The impeachment is a congress constitutional prerogative. Meaning they can't interfere as long as the constitutional proceedings are being met.

That's the problem, it's not the case here. Let's see what happens in the next few days, but for all we know at the moment, there is nothing that justifies an impeachment while respecting the constitution. It could have happened if it was her last mandate, but it's too late for that.

The Congress is not that powerful to do this alone, if whatever they do is not respecting the constitution, it will be blocked. See the private donations they approved and that the Supreme Court blocked a few months ago.

 

[Lehow]

That's the problem, it's not the case here. Let's see what happens in the next few days, but for all we know at the moment, there is nothing that justifies an impeachment while respecting the constitution. It could have happened if it was her last mandate, but it's too late for that.

The Congress is not that powerful to do this alone, if whatever they do is not respecting the constitution, it will be blocked. See the private donations they approved and that the Supreme Court blocked a few months ago.

The Supreme Court can't judge the matter, because the impeachment process will already judge the matter of the legality or not of the impeachment. The Supreme Court can only step in if the constitution is being violated, but the constitution says it is up to the lower house speaker(in this case Eduardo Cunha) decides if he accepts or not the crime report. After that, a commission involving all parties will decides if it is valid or not the denounce. If the Supreme Court interferes will violate the independence of the three powers principle.

The private donation thing was blocked, because the supreme courts interpreted that the constitution doesn't allow private donations. If the congress wants the private donation they must first amend the constitution to allow it, thus they can't create an ordinary law authorizing.

PS: I'm not saying the impeachment will happen, because this is a political matter and it is impossible to predict any outcome.

 

[Nikodemos]

Crazy how the BRIC countries have all fizzled, actually India is one he upturn replacing China as the world's largest/fastest growing economy now, but I mean it just goes to show how quickly things change. For over a decade, we've been hearing about a multipolar world, how it's all over and yet, Russia's economy nose dived after it's proxy war in Ukraine and annexing the Crimea drawing sanctions, China had one of the worst stock market crashes in history with trillions of dollars gone, still hasn't recovered, same with Brazil now.

That's because when it comes to the fundamentals, these countries are leakier than Villeneuve's ship after Trafalgar. If a government doesn't use the money gained from taxing an economic boom (thing is, a lot don't tax them, or, worse, weaken the tax regimen during said boom) to strengthen the pillars of a strong society, namely education, healthcare, independent judiciary and infrastructure, when economic downturns inevitably occur said country is basically back to square 1.

 

[Syntsui]

The Supreme Court can't judge the matter, because the impeachment process will already judge the matter of the legality or not of the impeachment. The Supreme Court can only step in if the constitution is being violated, but the constitution says it is up to the lower house speaker(in this case Eduardo Cunha) decides if he accepts or not the crime report. After that, a commission involving all parties will decides if it is valid or not the denounce. If the Supreme Court interferes will violate the independence of the three powers principle.

The private donation thing was blocked, because the supreme courts interpreted that the constitution doesn't allow private donations. If the congress wants the private donation they must first amend the constitution to allow it, thus they can't create an ordinary law authorizing.

PS: I'm not saying the impeachment will happen, because this is a political matter and it is impossible to predict any outcome.

I see, I just hope this is done as fast as possible so everyone can focus in restoring the country's economy and reputation.

An impeachment would be a powerful blow to our institutions considering how this is being conducted, but this needs to be settled fast. With her in power, the Congress, with or without Cunha would still do everything they can to damage her and that would be awful for everyone. I'm conflicted on this because she is an absurdly bad politician, but a criminal like Cunha she is not.

Umm, it already is a multipolar world. Unless you are seriously trying to argue that China is not a world power.

There are various theories that discuss this, if anything, we live in a 1 + (4) world, with US being the superpower.

 

[Coriolanus]

I see, I just hope this is done as fast as possible so everyone can focus in restoring the country's economy and reputation.

An impeachment would be a powerful blow to our institutions considering how this is being conducted, but this needs to be settled fast. With her in power, the Congress, with or without Cunha would still do everything they can to damage her and that would be awful for everyone. I'm conflicted on this because she is an absurdly bad politician, but a criminal like Cunha she is not.

There's also the problem of PMDB remaining in power no matter who gets the job, as they have been since we left the dictatorship. I don't quite know what those claiming for her head expect.

 

[Syntsui]

Yes, I have heard the theories as a POSC major, and no we don't. Of course, this is all opinion.

We have more indications of a yes than a no, but yeah, opinions and interpretations. But this is off topic.

There's also the problem of PMDB remaining in power no matter who gets the job, as they have been since we left the dictatorship. I don't quite know what those claiming for her head expect.

That's our biggest cancer, no matter what happens no party can get to the power without selling it's soul to PMDB. It's sad to know that there is no indication that this will ever change =/.

 

[Zeroth]

They need a World Cup like distraction.

Olympics 2016. She thought ahead and was very corrupt like FIFA and the Olympic Committee.

The olympics were set before she was even reelected. Lets not mix oranges with Apples here, specially when the Brazilian politics are more complex than corruption in sport events.

 

[Ganzlinger]

There's also the problem of PMDB remaining in power no matter who gets the job, as they have been since we left the dictatorship. I don't quite know what those claiming for her head expect.

A change in ideology is already a victory. Brazil will only get worse with PT's populism and distorted social agenda.

 

[The Hermit]

They need a World Cup like distraction.

Olympics 2016. She thought ahead and was very corrupt like FIFA and the Olympic Committee.

Considering how the World Cup ended to Brazil's team, I don't think it's a good idea.

And all that is happening was long overdue. My only complaint is that the whole process is taking wayyy too long. This whole year was completly wasted, in the midst of the shitstorm that is happening here.

 

[Syntsui]

A change in ideology is already a victory. Brazil will only get worse with PT's populism and distorted social agenda.

PMDB and PSDB don't have ideology at all, not even a plan for Brazil, nothing. If anything, we have REDE, and they have zero chances to attain power in the short term.

Dilma's government was awful, but the alternatives we have are not good at all. I agree that a change in power is good, but I'm not looking forward to our future considering our options.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Surely hosting the World Cup and the Olympics in less than two years is not unrelated to this

 

[Coriolanus]

A change in ideology is already a victory. Brazil will only get worse with PT's populism and distorted social agenda.

What distorted social agenda?

And no, a change in ideology is not a victory. That depends entirely on the replacement.
Heck, there will be no real change in ideology as long as no party can run this coutnry without pmdb's backing.

 

[Fuu]

I see, I just hope this is done as fast as possible so everyone can focus in restoring the country's economy and reputation.

Yep. Actually running the country is not on the foreground right now in any of the spheres. The constant in-fighting and shit-flinging politics are a loss for everyone, regardless of whoever "wins". It's something that's always there, but not to the extent it has been in these past few months

 

[massivekettle]

Crazy how the BRIC countries have all fizzled, actually India is one he upturn replacing China as the world's largest/fastest growing economy now, but I mean it just goes to show how quickly things change. For over a decade, we've been hearing about a multipolar world, how it's all over and yet, Russia's economy nose dived after it's proxy war in Ukraine and annexing the Crimea drawing sanctions, China had one of the worst stock market crashes in history with trillions of dollars gone, still hasn't recovered, same with Brazil now.

I don't doubt these countries still aren't the future, but it just goes to show you can't ever predict where the world will go or how quickly things can change.

China is already the world's largest economy, or will be by the end of this year.

 

[The Hermit]

PMDB and PSDB don't have ideology at all, not even a plan for Brazil, nothing. If anything, we have REDE, and they have zero chances to attain power in the short term.

Dilma's government was awful, but the alternatives we have are not good at all. I agree that a change in power is good, but I'm not looking forward to our future considering our options.

I live in sao Paulo. I am scared of next year mayor election.

 

[Syntsui]

I live in sao Paulo. I am scared of next year mayor election.

Russomano is a straight up criminal and the current favorite, Datena is a Trump level of buffoon and Haddad is one of the worst reviewed mayors, even after so many good policies. I just can't understand my city, the logic of people here is really fucked up.

I still couldn't overcome the fact that we elected Alckimin in the first fucking turn for governor.

 

[ubique]

Saw people honking and cheering in São Paulo yesterday like this was some kind of huge victory. Pretty disturbing stuff to say the least

 

[Coriolanus]

Yep. Actually running the country is not on the foreground right now in any of the spheres. The constant in-fighting and shit-flinging politics are a loss for everyone, regardless of whoever "wins". It's something that's always there, but not to the extent it has been in these past few months

The thing is...
Their idea of how to put the country on the right track is pretty much what Levy is already doing. What isn't being done is what has to go through congress, and that will most likely not change once the turmoil over the prez is passed.

Then you factor that the more we adopt his policies, the worse the economy gets (and no surprise there because austerity, ho! fuckers proposing raising taxes during an economic downturn ffs), and.... well....

Russomano is a straight up criminal and the current favorite, Datena is a Trump level of buffoon and Haddad is one of the worst reviewed mayors, even after so many good policies. I just can't understand my city, the logic of people here is really fucked up.

I still couldn't overcome the fact that we elected Alckimin in the first fucking turn for governor.

"Fuck the PT".

Same in Parana.
But hey, at least you aint in RJ. Can you imagine if Bolsonaro could have a go at your state?

 

[Dr. Buni]

An impeachment won't solve anything. If the other candidate had been elected instead of Dilma the country would still be in the same shitty situation regardless. With that in mind, I truly hope Dilma stays as the president, especially considering part of the reason people are against her is because she is a woman. Stay strong, Dilma.

A change in ideology is already a victory. Brazil will only get worse with PT's populism and distorted social agenda.

Depending of the "new" ideology, it really isn't.

 

[Tiops]

Good. She needs to go ASAP. PT fucking destroyed our country, at least economically. It's a shame that it happened just now because Cunha is a piece of shit and kept bargaining to save his ass. Now our shitty left, that needs to defend PT even if they don't fucking care about what the "left" here wants, can say that the impeachment process is just an act of vengeance or some bullshit like that,

I hope both he and Dilma gets thrown out .

 

[Gbraga]

An impeachment won't solve anything. If the other candidate had been elected instead of Dilma the country would still be in the same shitty situation regardless. With that in mind, I truly hope Dilma stays as the president, especially considering part of the reason people are against her is because she is a woman. Stay strong, Dilma.

What a load of bullshit.

Sure, it won't solve anything in the short term, but what put us in this situation wasn't any short term decision, this is the end result of their work for several years. If another candidate had been elected, it would still be terrible, but the market would already answer positively, and we could look forward to an improvement in the medium~long term.

I'm glad she got elected, because our people are too fond of populism, and all of the stuff she said would happen if her opponents won would indeed happen, because, like I said, it's the result of their work, it was inevitable, and then her profecy would be fullfiled, and her party would come out even stronger.

The real sad reason people are against her is because of the measurements that NEEDED to be taken because of the situation we're in. Many people are only complaining because of the inevitable outcome, rather than the actions that took us here in the first place. Which is always dangeours, as it leaves place for a new messianic populist to be elected in the future.

But sure, let's pretend it's because evil sexists hate women, HAAAATE them. Which is why you have angry videos from people like Felipe Neto (who voted for Luciana Genro) ranting on and on about her party.

Let me ask, are you a middle class person who gets money from your parents? Because I refuse to believe people who have to pay their bills and see their money worth less and less each day, and have to regress their lifestyle constantly would truly believe this.

This is not her first time as president either, so it would be a bit of a delayed sexist reaction, don't you think? 5 years later and now people realize she's a woman?

I voted for her the first time, I thought it was cool we had a woman as president as well, but she's incompetent. Women can do their jobs poorly too, you know, that's part of what it means to be equals. Not only men can be bad presidents.

You like her, agree with her party, think they're doing great and Brazil couldn't be better right now? Fine, that's your opinion, and you have every right to express it, but don't make shit up to try to paint the majority of the population who isn't satisfied as a villain here. Especially since most of NeoGAF are not from Brazil and would easily believe this crap.

Sure, there are sexist people who hate women in Brazil, and sure, they hate Dilma because she's a woman. But they've been hating her since 2010, and only now we have the vast majority of the population against her. Which should make things very clear.

 

[Coriolanus]

Good. She needs to go ASAP. PT fucking destroyed our country, at least economically.

totes.

 

[Chakan]

An impeachment won't solve anything. If the other candidate had been elected instead of Dilma the country would still be in the same shitty situation regardless. With that in mind, I truly hope Dilma stays as the president, especially considering part of the reason people are against her is because she is a woman. Stay strong, Dilma.

Depending of the "new" ideology, it really isn't.

So lets just leave things the way they are now. Is that your solution?

Without Dilma and her party (responsible for the biggest corruption scandal in history) Brazil will be able to get out of the terrible situation on which the country is now.

Dilma is the worst president in Brazil's history. Sorry if you like her for some twisted reason, but she must go for the good of the country.

And no, we are not against her because she's a woman. We are against her because she's incompetent.

 

[Coriolanus]

Dilma is the worst president in Brazil's history. Sorry if you like her for some twisted reason, but she must go for the good of the country.

When you say stuff like this, mate... all you show is that you've been following politics for no more than two decades. Tops.

 

[Tiops]

totes.

Yes, we had a great economical recovery since Plano Real, and we're on the way to return to a bad position after all the hard work.

 

[Chakan]

When you say stuff like this, mate... all you show is that you've been following politics for no more than two decades. Tops.

Dilma is the new Sarney, deal with it...mate.

 

[Coriolanus]

Yes, we had a great economical recovery since Plano Real, and we're on the way to return to a bad position after all the hard work.

No no. You said it destroyed. Past tense. You will not move the goalposts.

Dilma is the new Sarney, deal with it...mate.

I invite you to show data that supports such a position.

She is a shitty prez. Yes. Shittiest? Come on, mate.

 

[andythinkpad]

Does Brazil still have insane import tax for foreign made products? It seems to me Brazil need better economic policies not cleaner politicians.

 

[Ganzlinger]

What distorted social agenda?

And no, a change in ideology is not a victory. That depends entirely on the replacement.
Heck, there will be no real change in ideology as long as no party can run this coutnry without pmdb's backing.

I'm not against social programs. I believe the state should provide universal health, education and security. But some examples of the distorted social agenda: Bolsa Familia used as a political platform (more like a blackmail program with proof that users received cell phone messages in last election saying they will lose the benefit if the opposition wins), without proper criteria or supervision. Racial quotas instead of social quotas, used even in positions that needs a University degree instead of investing in the elementary and high public schools. Ciencias sem Fronteiras without proper supervision and criteria, Mais Medicos hiring foreign physicians without respecting Brazilian law (CLT) instead of giving better conditions and infra-structure like in many other funding programs. These are all shallow measures that doesn't resolve the deep social problems we have like poor education and health inefficiency. It's just populism to look good, the economy is going down road, and we are wasting money to maintain everything sustained by the Brazilian State instead of giving a base for the population to develop by itself. Brazil needs big reforms to make itself an efficient state and PT won't do anything like that, their ideology is to have ample control of the State, the bigger the better. Now they don't have even money to run electronic voting.

PMDB or PSDB aren't the solution but I believe that a qualified president from any party could make things right if he/she has a proper program and competent people.

 

[Stone Ocean]

An impeachment won't solve anything. If the other candidate had been elected instead of Dilma the country would still be in the same shitty situation regardless. With that in mind, I truly hope Dilma stays as the president, especially considering part of the reason people are against her is because she is a woman. Stay strong, Dilma.

Hahahaha no

 

[Jotaka]

Dilma is the new Sarney, deal with it...mate.

Sarney? what that even means? Explain please.

 

[Coriolanus]

Sarney? what that even means? Explain please.

That spike after 88?

That's Sarney. One of the many things that man did.

 

[Tiops]

No no. You said it destroyed. Past tense. You will not move the goalposts.

Yes, it is destroyed now. We're on a recession and there is no sight of recovery. We won't rebuild things in the short term, and we're already paying the price.

We don't need to get back to Cruzeiros level of inflation in a year to say that the economy is destroyed.


And we have people here saying that the issue with her is because she's a woman? Come the fuck on.

 

[Chakan]

I invite you to show data that supports such a position.

Sure, no problem. There you go:

http://www.em.com.br/app/noticia/ec...-a-pior-recessao-da-economia-em-85-anos.shtml

Market predicts worst economy recession in 85 years

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercad...s-na-pior-recessao-durante-o-plano-real.shtml

GDP retracts 5,8% since 2014 and Brazil has worst recession since 1994

http://www.diariodepernambuco.com.b...cessao-a-depressao-afirma-goldman-sachs.shtml

Brazil went from recession to depression

Need more? Dilma is a BAD president, she's incompetent, corrupt and must fall. And she WILL fall, I have no doubts about that.

 

[Chakan]

Sarney? what that even means? Explain please.

Sarney was Brazil's president from 1985 to 1990. Brazil was like Venezuela back then.

Now, with Dilma, Brazil is aiming to get back to those terrible days. All the efforts made during the 90s to strengthen the economy are being turned to dust.

 

[Fat Goron]

You will not move the goalposts.

Like Dilma does whenever our inflation rate soars above the target?

 

[ColossalLazy]

lmao they should impeach the whole Senate. As if Dilma is the main source of problems.

Brasilia is rotten to the core.

 

[Ganzlinger]

totes.

Thanks to China and their appetite for Brazilian commodities rather than PT's economic's expertise. But at least Palocci and Meirelles did a good job maintaining FHC's economic policy with proper adjustments. But then Mantega and global crisis came...

 

[Eila]

I read this the other day, how Mexico has been the best performing Latin American country this year. I was like wut?
With Macri winning Argentina it feels like populism will fall out of fashion in Latin America soonish.

 

[Dehumanizer]

When you say stuff like this, mate... all you show is that you've been following politics for no more than two decades. Tops.

Brazil never had two consecutive years of recession in its history, and now will have, with the possibility of this turning to be three... The debt/GDP relation never was so high, and it will keep rising next year. The unemployment is rising too, and is expected to hit the two digits by the end of next year. In the next year, this graphic you have posted will show a very deep fall, we aren't even in the peak of the crisis... So yes, she is the worst president of the history. I think you are the one who is not following politics in the last years...

 

[Tiops]

totes.

And quoting this again, since we're quoting just the GDP value, here's Greece's chart;

Funny how it's similar, huh?

 

[Dehumanizer]

And quoting this again, since we're quoting just the GDP value, here's Greece's chart;

Funny how it's similar, huh?

And Coriolanus graphic does not even take in account this year, with the bigger than 3% recession and its 60% Real currency fall to the Dollar. The graphic will turn to be worst than Greece's, lol