Support NeoGAF

[Ganzlinger]

I never said anything about having things "under control". BTW, "being better at hiding" involves "having influence over whoever is investigating". Just look at Alckmin.

Anyway, the PT is damaged beyond repair already, with or without impeachment. Problem is, a lot of the "institutionalized corruption" had major PMDB participation and those clowns will still stick and cuddle with whoever takes the wheel after the PT is gone.

Well you said they, PSDB, are spared by media, that's what I meant. I disagree, Aécio was strongly attacked and exposed during his campaign by Folha de S. Paulo for example.

I'm sorry, but I vehemently disagree.

I never said anything about the media. In fact I believe most of the media did their part during FHC government. I actually quoted a well know reporter from Globo.

It actually baffles me how many journals and periodic magazines forgot what they used to publish 10, 12 years ago.

There is no shortage of scandals concerning PSDB government. All you need to do is google then. From SIVAM to PROER, the privatizations, FHC bribing his way to approve his reelection, Marka/Fontecidam, SUDAM, SUDENE and more recently the mensalão tucano.

All those scandals share the same sad "coincidence": perpetrators never paid for their crimes for one reason or other.

Not even the ones were one of the accused openly confessed his crime like the scandal of the reelection.

The mensalão tucano is specially aggravating. Marcos Valério confessed. He proposed a "delação premiada" and told everything he did and knew about it. The the MP/MG never accepted his delation and no one knows why. They never prosecuted key people involved in the case, and the ones that were prosecuted because there was no way to avoid are happily living their lives while their lawsuits are rotting under a table while everyone waits their punishability to expire. It's a damn shame this was relegated to state tribunals were political influence is more pervasive.

The very same media that you are now defending of being called golpista nicknamed the FHC's then Procurator Geral da República of Engavetador because he loved to shelve lawsuits against the people in power.

What more proof do you need?

Again Brindeiro was FHC Procurator Geral da República for fucking 3 terms. FHC loved the guy. Of 626 lawsuits against government officials including politicians and even FHC he didn't even accept 242 and shelved 217. On his 8 years tenure as the PGR (FHC both terms) he only accepted 60 lawsuits. This is 7,5 lawsuits a year medium. What a joke.

He directly shelved or disregarded 459 lawsuits against 194 congressmen, 33 senators, 11 minister of state and even the president himself.

When Carlinhos Cachoeira was arrested not too long ago, police phone taps discovered that the then highest authority of our country's Minstério Público has been receiving bribes for years.

So please, tell me again how our MP was not gagged and leashed as I said during FHC years? Please convince me that despite all this information he didn't have a hand in sweeping scandals and corruption under the rug on the government of the people who now claim to be more honest than the ones currently on power.

Again I never said anything about the media. But there is no denying that the MP and yes, even the police were completely subjugated by the government.

I will even give you a few numbers:

During 8 years of FHC the Federal Policy conducted only 48 operations. There are no numbers available about how many people they arrested.

During the 8 years of Lula and a bit of Dilma (2003/2011) do you know how many PF operations took place???

1273.

15754 people were arrested. 1882 were government officials. 99 were from PF own ranks.

Here's the link:

http://www.conversaafiada.com.br/brasil/2012/12/05/fortalecimento-da-pf-ocorreu-no-governo-lula

Actually, I was replying to your statement about PT and Marcio Thomaz Bastos being responsible for Brazil's strong fight against corruption. The reply about media was targeted to the other user I quoted at the same post. Sorry for the confusion.

And yes, there was corruption during PSDB years, I was even going to mention the absurd of reelection scandal, but you already mentioned it.

Well, regarding the current numbers of investigations in comparison with FHC years the results are very good, indeed. I'm all for it. But remember that the PF has a bigger effective, the technology has advanced so they are more prepared now to run more operations But, as you said, the investigations also happened during FHC years, the lawsuits were there, but the PGR didn't receive them. I don't believe the police was gagged, they actually had pretty worse conditions back then, so they wouldn't have motives to protect the PSDB government.

Regarding Brindeiro, I don't doubt he was biased. What you said is plausible. But Is there any proof the PGR was favouring his 'friends'? What you said it's not proof but strong evidence. The 'corregedoria' didn't do anything about it? There was really enough evidence to support all these lawsuits? I don't have access to those documents and investigations but it is the opposition's speech (basically PT) against the PGR. And let's not forget that PT was a cry baby during their opposition years, they used everything they got to spread propaganda against the government, including lies. The 'engavetador geral' nickname is one of their creation iirc. They were a noisy bunch that used to yell "Fora Collor, Fora Itamar, Fora FHC" but if you say now "Fora Dilma" you are against democracy.

But even if we assume that the PGR was indeed corrupt or biased (which is possible due to evidences), it looks like we have a problem inside the MPF and the PT was blaming the federal government for that. But the MPF is an independent organ, so how this is the Executive's fault (if there is no proof of active corruption)?

Thing is, I always thought this talk is too convenient for PT, it's what they use to justify why they are the only party in Brazil that had their biggest heads in jail.

And the link you provided is biased, as Paulo Henrique Amorim is one of the fiercest supporters of PT. What he said is true, I believe. But I wouldn't read much of his opinions.

In the end, I can't counter what you said so you might be right. But I'm just expressing my discredit towards this speech used a lot by PT. So I could be totally wrong.

 

[zero shift]

So can someone give me a brief run down to as of why this recession is happening?

 

[Dehumanizer]

You're confusing investments with budget.

From the article you linked it says that the PF budget rose from 1.5 billion from FHC to 4.3 billion under Lula and Dilma. That's a substantial increase, no?

Absolut numbers serve to nothing:

diminuiu seu ritmo de crescimento, embora tenha saltado de R$ 1,5 bilhão para R$ 4,3 bilhões em dez anos.

You have to look at what was this number in 1994 to calculate the growth during FHC period.


Could you please explain how you came to the conclusion that operations have nothing to do with the government in charge just by looking at the financials? Specially if you consider that the Federal Policy chief (you know the guy who runs everything) is nominated by the minister of Justice and that the minister of Justice is nominated by the president? I'm not seeing a connection in your arguments...lol...

How long do you keep investing until you have a satisfactory work infrastructure? Do you really believe that investments would keep escalating amid cuts in budgets on all government branches after the 2008 crisis going to this day?

Your article makes no sense. It mentions a delegate complaining about travel expenses when this is clearly not an investment but a budget restriction.

Plus this is an article about the police force union complaining about working conditions, cuts and asking for more money. With all respect I wouldn't read too much into it. This is pretty much what all unions do...they complain about better working conditions. Doesn't make it wrong but you can't take it at face value without looking into it.


The guy in question is saying that out of a 5 billion budget for 2012 14% were cut, and proceeds to claim that the whole budget is fictional because of it. He says that 4.3 billion doesn't exist because he didn't get 700 million more.

Yeah...sorry but I remain unconvinced.

It was not "only a delegate complaining", the Policia Federal did several strikes in protest for the bad conditions, these years. You look like don't live here. If you remain unconvinced:

Falling budget:

Operations lessening:

 

[Dehumanizer]

I'm not defending Dilma. She's failed hard at the politician game, to say the least. But in a country where Sarney existed she's the worst? Seriously?

But a half-baked impeachment will do little but implode the confidence in the country's democratic institutions, while still keeping in power a large bunch of the people involved in the ongoing scandals. Even FHC realized this and now recommends a resignation.

Looking solely at the economic aspects, she is worst

 

[JJD]

Absolut numbers serve to nothing:

diminuiu seu ritmo de crescimento, embora tenha saltado de R$ 1,5 bilhão para R$ 4,3 bilhões em dez anos.



It was not "only a delegate complaining", the Policia Federal did several strikes in protest for the bad conditions, these years. You look like don't live here. If you remain unconvinced:

Falling budget:

Operations lessening:

Oh I remain completely unconvinced, and while I'm not currently residing in Brazil, that's besides the point right? I am Brazilian.

Your first graph shows how for 10 years (PT government years) PF's budget has been rising consistently and then for 1 year, 2012 to 2013 it diminished a bit.

Then you post a graph from 2007 to 2015 relating that the number of indictments under Dilma were going down. Again less indictments doesn't mean that they are doing less operations. It just means that they are indicting less people for what ever reason that the graph didn't mention. Where it was taken from?

Where is the correlation to how the PF was operating under the PSDB government? You know that's actually my point right?

I'm arguing that the PF under PT was better than the PF under PSDB and you're saying that under PT the PF indicted more people in 2007 then it did in 2012. You're not refuting anything. The PF has more autonomy now than they EVER did. That's my point.

Did you read the article you linked? The guy you quoted is just the president of the Associação dos Delegados de Polícia Federal (ADPF). He is just an Union leader. He is not speaking for the corporation. You now how Unions work right? You know their MO? Who is making these claims in your article matters. And he is the guy who is always asking more more funding, more job benefits less budget cuts, etc. It's his job.

This is actually what the Brazilian Federal Police, the actual corporation said when that Union (ADPF) made those claims:

Íntegra da nota da PF

A Polícia Federal apresentou um aumento substancial de seu orçamento entre os anos de 2002 e 2010 em virtude do aumento da folha de pagamento da instituição, ocorrido com a expressiva reposição de seu efetivo no período, além da recomposição salarial dos subsídios recebidos pelos servidores, extremamente defasados na época. Em 2004, mais de três mil policiais e cerca de mil e duzentos servidores administrativos foram aprovados em concursos públicos para ocuparem cargos na PF.

Em relação ao decreto nº 7.689/2012 e o alegado “monitoramento das operações da Polícia Federal pelo Ministro da Justiça”, ressalta-se que o instrumento normativo é aplicável a todos os órgãos do Poder Executivo, não somente à PF. Deve-se esclarecer que as solicitações para concessão de diárias não especificam a natureza das atividades desenvolvidas pelo órgão, apenas referindo-se de forma genérica à necessidade de efetivo em face de trabalhos a serem realizados. A movimentação de contingente não representa efetivamente operação policial especial a ser deflagrada, podendo significar, a título de exemplo, reforço de efetivo em aeroportos, operações de apoio à demarcação de terras indígenas ou mesmo segurança de dignitários.

Não se pode afirmar que o aludido decreto poderia acarretar “comprometimento de oportunidades de operações policiais”. Exemplo disso é a marca alcançada pela Polícia Federal em 2012: 289 operações policiais especiais deflagradas, recorde absoluto de sua história. Entre as operações, inúmeras de grande vulto, tais como: Monte Carlo, Trem Pagador, Durkheim e Porto Seguro. No combate ao tráfico internacional de drogas e controle de fronteiras, a Polícia Federal neste mês de setembro bateu recorde de apreensão de cocaína e maconha.

A forma mais adequada para demonstrar os investimentos da Polícia Federal é o valor dos empenhos efetivados e não os valores desembolsados pelo órgão. Adotando este parâmetro, o montante de investimento realizado no exercício de 2012 foi de R$ 206.236.505,26. O índice de execução orçamentária da PF alcançou os valores de 99% e 115%, respectivamente, nos últimos dois anos, o que comprova eficiência administrativa.

Entre as aquisições do último ano, destacam-se 914 armas de fogo, das quais 800 não-letais, 18 equipamentos de Raio-X, 15 robôs anti-bombas, 111 binóculos de visão noturna, 180 designadores de laser infravermelho, 457 viaturas (entre ostensivas e descaracterizadas), 2 aeronaves (sendo um helicóptero e um de asa fixa), além da execução do plano de recuperação das embarcações, que possibilitou a reforma de cerca de 60 embarcações. Estão em curso os projetos executivos para a construção de imóveis funcionais em algumas cidades situadas na região de fronteira, quais sejam, Tabatinga/AM, Oiapoque/AP, Epitaciolândia/AC, Cáceres/MT, Corumbá/MS, Ponta Porã/MS e Pacaraima/RR, bem como os projetos executivos para a construção das sedes das Delegacias de Polícia Federal em Tabatinga/AM, Ponta Porã/MS, Corumbá/MS, Pacaraima/RR, Cascavel/PR e Santarém/PA. Já foram inauguradas as delegacias de Presidente Prudente/SP, Santa Cruz do Sul/RS e Campina Grande/PB. Ainda este ano serão inaugurados os novos prédios das Superintendências Regionais no Acre e em Roraima.

Divisão de Comunicação Social da Polícia Federal

I got that press release from the link you provided. It seems the PF thinks they were doing quite well by then. They are saying their salaries were shit before 2002.

Your avatar is strangely appropriate. ;-)

Edit: I would also like the know the source from the last graph.

Looking solely at the economic aspects, she is worst

No she isn't. Not by any stretch.

You're probably just too young to remember what it means to live under hyper inflation.

Do you know what it is to receive your salary at the morning and have to rush to the supermarket as soon as you can because by noon the buying power of your monthly wage would be cut by almost 1/3 and you wouldn't have money to buy enough groceries to your family?

If the government didn't start indexing prices some people would starve.

 

[Zeroth]

I'm glad we have many Brazilian posters here expressing some very elaborate and eloquent points and opinions in english, allowing non-natives to enjoy these discussion too. I can say some posters have made this thread a very interesting read.

Spoiler

This is not sarcasm I swear.

 

[SwolBro]

Well...it really depends on how flexible your friend is, lol.

Our tax system is...unorthodox to say the least. We have a shitton of taxes. They often cascade one on top of another. Municipal, statual and federal legislation contradict each other regularly. States wage "fiscal war" against each other cutting taxes to attract more investment than other states. It's kinda crazy.

If you guys think the "tax loopholes" are bad in the US you haven't seen nothing! Ha

There's been an effort to simplify and rationalize everything but we still have a loooong way to go.

If your friend has already secured a job I'd say he will get the hang of it...eventually.

im saying... would it be hard for him to get a job right now considering brasils crisis?

 

[Tiops]

im saying... would it be hard for him to get a job right now considering brasils crisis?

I would say that probably not, specially if he tries São Paulo. No idea about meeting salary expectations, though.

 

[M3d10n]

I have to let this one out:

"Reelection was a mistake, it's nothing but trash."

 

[Usobuko]

Highly depended on what you are using to measure it.

Nominal GDP.

USA - $17 trillion
China- $10 trillion

Still has a way to go.

It's going to take 10 more years at least but it will happen.

 

[Ganzlinger]

im saying... would it be hard for him to get a job right now considering brasils crisis?

Probably not. He seems overqualified. But I don't know if this area pays well around here.

 

[Cerium]

Not looking good for Dilma.

Brazil’s president, Dilma Rousseff, suffered two setbacks on Friday in her fight against impeachment, as a minister from her main coalition ally resigned and the supreme court quashed appeals from supporters seeking to stop the impeachment process.

The reversals do not end Rousseff’s chances of stopping impeachment proceedings, but they show the supreme court and even coalition partners are willing to let the process play out and even strategise for what may follow.

The aviation minister, Eliseu Padilha, an ally of the vice-president, Michel Temer, and part of the fractious party that is Rousseff’s main coalition partner, submitted his resignation on Friday, according to two sources within the Brazilian Democratic Movement party, or PMDB.

Six PMDB ministers remain in Rousseff’s cabinet, including the health minister, Marcelo Castro, who said his center-right party would back the president on the lower house committee that will rule on whether there are grounds to proceed with her impeachment. That could change if Padilha’s departure sets off a PMDB exodus from the Rousseff administration.

The supreme court turned back appeals from Rousseff’s allies to block the impeachment proceedings, including one filed by congressmen from her Workers’ party.