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EDGE: Sonys VR tech will be revealed at GDC
- Thread starter stryke
- Start date
EyeToy > Move > ???
From all that's been said, steam machines seem likely to support VR, of course it depends on if you actually want to consider it edging into the domain of being classed as a console or if it is still a PC. The obvious issue is how capable they will actually be and for how long would older machines be supported.
PS VR being compatible with other things outside of PS4, isn't the worst idea in the world but it all depends on where VR goes and how quickly, and what the capabilities of their headset are.
I don't think the API thing is going to be such an issue. The motion tracking is just data output, developers don't need low level access to the tech or anything, then the visuals are just the barrel distortion, which could vary from unit to unit, but it'd be consistent within that unit, and not much of an issue to implement.
The real issue is only with the stuff outside of that, UI for the accessing games and all of that Valve want to take care of on PC.
I don't know at all, but I would imagine it's very painfree for a developer to port Rift content to PS4, but I'm sure that will be covered with the reveal.
beast786, thanks for the reply.
Don't get me wrong, I think the experience on PC would be good, but given Valve and Oculus' public statements about console VR, they obviously aren't working with Sony.
If you want to look at it logically, Alienware's SteamMachine is basically the default, and it's specs and price will rival PS4/XBO, or so they claim, and given the price and specs of PS4/XBO vary notably, what that means is hard to gauge. But let's say they match PS4, they've already confirmed Rift support, on Valve's dev stage no less. Obviously the PS4 isn't below Valve and Oculus standards, but they're competing now, Oculus even said they've been using tablets for VR.
Sony are going to beat them to market, probably by a year or so, Valve and Oculus don't want people to think Sony can do this well, despite supporting on par, or worse PC hardware with their plans.
I don't disagree, but that isn't the issue. The reason for not supporting the next-gen consoles is that they will be stagnating while the hardware remains unchanged for several years. Alienware for example intend to release a new machine each year with an updated spec. I imagine the longevity of support of the hardware would just evolve as the PC ecosystem does and eventually older machines will not be able to run a large amount of the newer experience.
I could be wrong, but I was assuming the reason Oculus/Valve are not supporting the PS4 for example, is because there is no possibility of evolving games further until that new hardware comes along and enters the discussion. In that period there a restriction that can not be explored beyond due to the hardware.
Theoretically, I don't think there should be a reason to at least support PS4 for a couple of years, as I am sure it will be capable of a lot of good stuff. The issue comes after that, when everything on the PC side has moved forward and may be exploring new areas. I imagine it would be restrictive to support the older hardware exclusively if they really expect hardware capabilities to be important to VR. The high turnover of steam machine hardware would be similar to PCs I think
Why do you think it was even their choice? It's Sony's platform, they have no reason to allow the Rift. Oculus claim the PS4 isn't good enough for what they want to do, but obviously that is not the case given first generation SteamMachines and even tablets are acceptable. They're lying about why it's not on consoles, so I suspect the real reason is Sony and MS aren't interested.
But regardless of that, I thought we were talking about the other way around, that is to say why isn't PS4 VR on PC (assuming it's not, and yeah, we don't know), and I think a key component in that is that Valve and Oculus are working together to provide an alternative.
When the decision had to be made about if the PS4 headset would be on PC, I think we have to consider ever possible for and against, and on top of the mountain of reasons why it's a bad idea, at the very top is Valve and Oculus' collaboration.
Let's say Sony launch VR Q4 this year, and Oculus launch CV1 Q4'15, Sony would have a year head start in the VR space, now that seems like a good idea, if Sony were interested in iterating based on rising PC specs, and supporting it as a PC project, but there is no way they would, it would directly compete with PS4. So whatever standard they establish will hold for the seven/eight years until PS5 comes with a much better VR headset.
Sony could dominate PC VR for one year, but why would they? They're not invested in the PC VR space long term, and in that year, PS4 will be the only way to experience consumer grade VR. It's a huge unique selling point for their platform, they would never give that up.
serversurfer
Member
Please, PLEASE, PLEASE do what you can to ensure we get to see a video of this presentation at some point. m(__)m
Rick and Anton are my heroes. :'(
Oculus never said consoles 'aren't good enough'. They said they aren't ideal, which is absolutely, 100% true, because they want to push the tech, which wont happen on the consoles.
I also don't know where you're getting the idea that Sony would be a year ahead of Oculus. We have zero idea of when Sony plans to release their product.
I do agree that Sony benefits most from being PS4 exclusive, though. They cant keep up with Oculus and they will want to sell PS4's with this technology. Sony may have money, but they are not in a state to be throwing money around recklessly. They will want to maximize the profits of their gaming division.
This was the exact quote:
I would say it's closer to my interpretation than yours, but whatever.
Sony has no reason to wait, unlike Oculus. If it's real, and it's revealed next week, it will be out this year.
They obviously could 'keep up' technologically, but they have no reason to do so.
TheKastorian
Member
Definitely will be shown with Driveclub
Saberus
Member
😃. Please make sure there will be a video of this!!!!!
Except for the 0 games thing I guess!
I mean, I'm sure they'd have a handful of Sony VR games that have been under wraps but the technology is still very new and it takes a long time to make games.
Well, these are the PS4 games that have, or have announced they will have Rift support:
Daylight
Dying Light
EverQuest Next
Minecraft
Project CARS
Strike Suit Zero
War Thunder
The Witness
So most, or all of those will probably support it. Sony will have some stuff, and third parties will support it.
I'd say it'll have plenty for year one.
Here's some wild speculation about the 14/15 VR support:
Until Dawn
DriveClub
Everybody's Gone to the Rapture
Alien: Isolation
Outlast
SOMA
No Man's Sky
Its not. Its not even *my* interpretation. Palmer has talked about how he hopes VR is successful on consoles. Locked-down hardware just isn't ideal for what they want to do. I didn't really this was even up for debate...
We don't know what they're showing or how ready it is to be mass produced. They also wouldn't want to release it without a minimum of software available for it, which apparently doesn't exist at the moment. There's lots of reasons to wait still.
The Witness it the only game there that you could be confident will release with VR support on the PS4 anytime soon.
So you claim.
No, really. In what way are you confident that all those other games will be releasing on the PS4 anytime soon, much less with VR support?
Bottom line is that there could *definitely* be a reason for Sony to not release this year. We have very little idea of what their VR support looks like at the moment.
Yeah that is exactly what I implied. *rolleyes* Or maybe.... I'm generally uninterested in VR tech?? The "concept" isn't something that interests me.
I just can't get behind the concept of putting a visor type device on my head to play games. My mind may change after seat time but as it stands... VR tech does nothing for me.
Much in the same way people like to bash Kinect.
Why do you say that? War Thunder has been on the PS4 for months, and Strike Suit Zero comes out in March. Why would the Witness be the first to support Sony VR?
BulletTheory
Neo Member
He's right... It won't be as simple as turning a few switches for a game to support VR on ps4. It's fine for PC but consoles have limited resources and it'll take a bunch of work for devs to get games running optimally.
Well firstly, one of them is actually out. Two of them are out in the next couple of months and have release dates, two of them are confirmed for 2014, and the other three will most likely be out in the next couple of years.
No, he is not right. What you just said counts just as much for The Witness as every other game listed. He specifically believes that one is more likely, and there is no logical reason to believe that.
iceatcs
Junior Member
hmm, hopefully VR because popular demand.
I'm just curious what is the next step because it seem envole start from webcam.
We know that there are dual cameras but what is it for.
Because its the only one that we can be reasonably sure is being made with Sony's VR in mind.
Other games may well support it in the near future. There's just no good evidence to suggest they will at the moment.
TrojanBlade
Member
iceatcs
Junior Member
I'm quite confident because there are over 100+ 3D PS3 and 120+ move compatible (without full 50+ Move titles)
See that's where you are wrong. As it sits now I'm truly uninspired by the tech.
Things can change. When it becomes readily available to demo I may like it. I may be pushed further away.
In the end my opinion is no less invalid as the people getting excited about it. Who also have never tried it.
And how many of those have suggested anything about VR support with the PS4?
You're assuming, man. You've been very reasonable with much of what you've said, but that has broken down here quite hard with this idea that Sony doesn't need to wait. ]
I don't know anything about the other games but I know that the witness is "exclusive" to the PS4 for a while and they are actively doing VR, but their tease was based on stuff they working with Valve on. The guy did say they would also work with "similar devices"
serversurfer
Member
Stu, I see what you're saying WRT Oculus having incentive to wait the tech will be that much better next year but won't that always be the case? That's the whole appeal of PC in the first place, right? The logical extension of that philosophy is they should never launch, because waiting until "next year" will always be better.
They've gotta jump in somewhere, so I see no problem with releasing 1K per eye panels now, and 1.4K panels in 2016 or whatever.
As I read it, that's their only "beef" with consoles too long between iterations so why not iterate? What's the point in waiting to start the process?
They've gotta jump in somewhere, so I see no problem with releasing 1K per eye panels now, and 1.4K panels in 2016 or whatever.
As I read it, that's their only "beef" with consoles too long between iterations so why not iterate? What's the point in waiting to start the process?
No one has suggested they will support PS4 VR, Jonathan Blow certainly hasn't given any indication The Witness will.
It's you that is being illogical.
I simply posted a list of PS4 games that are on PC with Rift support, so are prime candidates for PS4 VR, that is it.
Completely true, but unlike Sony, we have an idea of what Oculus are targeting.
They said CV1 will match or better Valve's unit, Valve say their unit could hopefully be produced by Q1'16, I was just saying Q4'15 to be charitable.
No, that's not what you did.
You posted a list in an effort to support the notion that Sony doesn't need to wait. As if it would have VR support for a bunch of games very early on. You are doing more than listing, but assuming, and making very unsafe assumptions at that.
Oculus' statement that they will match Valve's unit should probably be taken lightly. That's my own assumption here, but I don't think its terribly unsafe. My guess is that they meant that it will achieve many of the basic standards it meets without necessarily being the same sort of VR. I mean, do you think it will have dual screens and a camera-mounted tracking system? I highly doubt it.
Fair enough. However, like I said my opinion could change. Which lends the idea that I may not be so close minded.
serversurfer
Member
1K does match the reference design, and I'd argue that 4Q14 is just as close to "c. 2015" as 1Q16 is. Why not do 1K "now" and 1.4K "later"?
googleplex
Member
Yes, I was assuming Sony could get a handful of games that have VR support to move the support to PS4, it's a very reasonable assumption in fact, moreover, it's nothing that would ever change. You could use exactly the same argument five years from now. "Yeah, there's lots of VR games on PC, but you're just assuming they're support PS4 VR, despite being PS4 games and having VR support". It's cyclical logic, if it's logical at all.
I believe they mean they will match the experience, more or less, so yes, I think it will take more or less the same amount of time.
I honestly can't parse the question.
ZehDon
Member
serversurfer
Member
lol Sorry, lemme get off my phone and I'll try to post something more coherent in a bit.
Very few of those games are even out, much less already have proper VR support. This idea that PS4 will automatically have VR support in all or even some of these games at launch is presumptuous.
We also don't know at what state Sony's VR headset is at, mass production-wise.
Lastly, I would imagine that Sony would want at least a couple first-party titles to release alongside its launch.
You are making lots of assumptions in your declaration that 'Sony doesn't need to wait'.
I think Oculus have made it known that they are aiming for an affordable, sit-down experience, so I think that rules out dual screens or a camera/room setup like Valve had.
As for how long it will take, none of us really have enough info to even take an educated guess.
And you are making lots of assumptions in your suggestion they do need to wait. My assumptions are just much better I think, but we'll see soon enough.
Valve's estimations for when consumer grade VR will be ready is based on the assumption it will not have the same QR code camera seeking, which seems obvious.
Valve say two years, so I'm going to say they have a good idea.
According to the Oculus subreddit, it has been said that whenever DK2 ships, the consumer version will be months away. Of course this could have changed
We should hopefully have a better idea of what's going on at GDC, while they've said DK2 will be basically CV1 previously, and there won't be a middle ground, I think the DK1 component shortage will force their hand, and DK1.5 or whatever, will be coming this year.
Yeah, GDC should bring interesting stuff. Sony always has a pretty good presence and large booth setup, but compared to previous years both Oculus and Valve have huge booths setup. I read somwhere that they are six or seven times the previous size - not that that really translates into information or anything but I imagine they are actively doing more than last year with whatever they do
Yeah, it's VR's coming out party, exactly what we get in terms of details is a bit of a mystery, Oculus and Sony won't give release dates, but we should have a better sense of Oculus' current road map for sure.
serversurfer
Member
If a game has annouced Rift support, and that game is coming to PS4, it seems reasonable to assume it will also support PSVR. Sony has good tools this time around, so porting should be relatively simple. Also, Sony probably has a little money to throw in on the process, especially since they'll benefit directly from sales of said game, unlike Oculus.
Anyway, what I was saying was, Abrash didn't say, "Hopefully we can get this built by the end of 2015." He said he thought it was a reasonable target for devices released in 2015, and I'd lump 4Q14 in there, just as you're lumping in 1Q16. They've already built it. I don't see where you're coming up with, "If we're lucky, it won't be the first quarter of 2016." The reference design is easily achievable today.
So since it's entirely possible for them to release a device with 1K panels now meeting the reference design and then release CV2 with 1.4K panels down the road, why would they not do that? Constant iteration is what makes PC "better," after all.
Really, I would say the main "holdup" is not the panels themselves, but rather the ability to drive them. Wasn't someone saying only 10% of Steam users even have a box as powerful as the PS4? And there's already plenty of debate as to whether or not that's powerful enough to drive even a 1K panel. How many Steam users have a computer twice as powerful as the PS4, which is what you'd need to drive a 1.4K panel with the same effects and stuff? I suspect Abrash wasn't saying, "Hopefully we can get 1K panels built before 2015 ends," but rather, "By 2015, 'enough' users should be able to drive 1K panels effectively, so those would be good panels to sell to them."
Anyway, what I was saying was, Abrash didn't say, "Hopefully we can get this built by the end of 2015." He said he thought it was a reasonable target for devices released in 2015, and I'd lump 4Q14 in there, just as you're lumping in 1Q16. They've already built it. I don't see where you're coming up with, "If we're lucky, it won't be the first quarter of 2016." The reference design is easily achievable today.
So since it's entirely possible for them to release a device with 1K panels now meeting the reference design and then release CV2 with 1.4K panels down the road, why would they not do that? Constant iteration is what makes PC "better," after all.
Really, I would say the main "holdup" is not the panels themselves, but rather the ability to drive them. Wasn't someone saying only 10% of Steam users even have a box as powerful as the PS4? And there's already plenty of debate as to whether or not that's powerful enough to drive even a 1K panel. How many Steam users have a computer twice as powerful as the PS4, which is what you'd need to drive a 1.4K panel with the same effects and stuff? I suspect Abrash wasn't saying, "Hopefully we can get 1K panels built before 2015 ends," but rather, "By 2015, 'enough' users should be able to drive 1K panels effectively, so those would be good panels to sell to them."
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
I wonder if eye tracking is being incorporated into VR. They showed that at VGX and haven't heard anything since. May be they are also tracking where you are looking within the virtual space to add depth of field effects like this.
One can dream
This is what I'm wondering too. Being able to slightly change your viewpoint based on eye movement would be fantastic. But I wonder how much of a strain that will be since eye movement can be fast and twitchy.
While he does say 2015, he constantly calls it two years, the talk name even said two years. At the end he actually says if not 2015, shortly after. It's true that 2015 could mean Q1, it could mean day one, the 2015 he's talking about in context is by the end of it.
Here's the thing, they haven't built it. They've built a prototype that can kind of be produced, but not for the right price, and most importantly, they are not ready for the motion tracking. They said they have ideas, but it's not a solved problem.
These things are good for Sony to launch first, because they can't afford the performance to run 1080p at 95Hz, and they are fixed with using whatever tracking they can with the PS4 camera. They will ship using PS4 spec, and tracking provided by the PS4 camera.
Again, no, they're not ready. QHD panels is an interesting thing, I won't be surprised if CV1 does have QHD if it takes long enough to achieve the robust motion tracking.
Abrash said 2015 because they haven't produced a tracking system that's viable yet, and the engineering work to get from the prototype to consumer grade is two years work.
But yeah, most people's computers can't handle it, but that's not a big deal I think. Early adopters will have great machines.