LyleLanley
Banned
Are you trying to start another list war?
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ESPN Ranks LeBron as the #3 NBA Player All-Time. What say you?
- Thread starter GhostWriter24
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Are you trying to start another list war?
Randolph Freelander
Member
Montana, Favre, Manning, um, Marino, Steve Young, 60 or 70 other guys, your boy.
Fenderputty
Banned
It would be more accurate to say Shaq was nothing without Kobe and Phil since he only won one after his stint on the Lakers and that one year was basically his second to last meaningful year in the NBA.
Nah, Peyton Manning is unquestionably the best or 2nd best (behind Montana) QB of all time. Lebron, as great as he is, is still rightly regarded as behind Jordan.
Randolph Freelander
Member
It would be far more accurate to say both statements are ridiculous.
wat
LyleLanley
Banned
Randolph you idiot, these all time greats were nothing without each other. NOTHING!
Fenderputty
Banned
This is correct. Which is why I said "more" and not "most". They made each other and were probably the most dominant duo in the NBA ever next to Pippen and Jordan. IT's a shame they couldn't' work together. Something both have admitted to after the fact.
CitizenCope
Member
No way!
9 at best.
9 at best.
does anyone know if win shares in basketball is an equivalent to baseballs WAR?
basically one number that tells how much a value a player has provided?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html
basically one number that tells how much a value a player has provided?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html
Empyrean Heaven
Member
I know Wilt was a giant asshole which is why he always gets the shaft on these lists, but people really need to start respecting his skills.
I go:
1. Jordan, duh.
2. Wilt
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. LeBron
Kareem's defensive woes are the only reason he's not higher.
I go:
1. Jordan, duh.
2. Wilt
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. LeBron
Kareem's defensive woes are the only reason he's not higher.
Dreams-Visions
Member
lol?
BadAss2961
Member
This is what i'm talking about. LeBron wants people to like him, wants people to believe what a team guy he is (though that's finally falling apart for everyone), tries his best to hide that he's a huge diva pulling all the strings behind the scenes. He'll let it slip sometimes in blaming coaches and teammates for losses, but for the most part he'll stay quiet publicly and just let the media rip them for him. Dude goes on vacation during the trade deadline and plays GM, shipping dudes out so he's not even around for the fallout. lol
Of the coverage i've seen of Wilt, he seemed like the same type of guy, just open and without shame. He reveled in the idea that it was the Wilt show. Getting buckets, hogging all the boards, bedding women by the dozens. Give me the ball and get the hell out my way, fuck yo stats.
Well they do have one major thing in common. They both suffer from having detractors who bend over backwards to disparage their career accomplishments and come up with progressively more insane reasons to elevate clearly inferior peers above them.
yeah I was just joking. I think 1-on-1 claims don't hold any real weight because basketball is a team sport and the different positions make 1-on-1 comparisons impossible.
Colonel Nasty
Member
LOL.
That was a fun thread.
PadWarrior
Member
Was gonna say the same thing
why is that funny?
Colonel Nasty
Member
I don't see how you can be the second best in your generation and somehow be the best all time.
Peyton is very clearly the best of his generation, who can even be above him?
Vault Dweller 111
Member
You could talk me into anything in the top 5 as long as it's behind MJ. No problem at all with #3 In 20 years it won't even be a question if he belongs or not.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Duncan over Kobe? They vied for best player of their generation in their primes, but "who's better" was settled long ago in the playoffs. Kobe owns Duncan and the Spurs.
I'd also put Kobe above Shaq (didn't maximize his potential/prime due to poor work habits), Olajuwon, and LeBron.
I'd also put Kobe above Shaq (didn't maximize his potential/prime due to poor work habits), Olajuwon, and LeBron.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Windhorst? Isn't that guy like Lebron's personal reporter or something
tom brady is better becuase he won more superbowls? i never understood that logic.
sonycowboy
Member
I'd put Montana, Brady, and Peyton in top 3. I tend to think of Montana as #1 by virtue of being 4-0 despite in SB despite not having the insane stats that changes to the game brought forward.
Elway, Farve, Unitas, Marino, Bradshaw, & Staubauch are in the 2nd tier for me.
I don't subscribe to Steve Young being in that 2nd tier. I know he had great completion percentage, but his peak was pretty darn short (7 year starter) and only has the one championship.
BTW, I won't defend the garbage that is Lebron being #3, Russell and Duncan not being in top 5.
UnObtainium17
Member
Bron is in top 5. The only thing that holds me back from ranking him 3rd GOAT is the finals performances. I mean damn. He's got A FUCK TON of shitty finals games.
Maybe i'm expecting too much out of him after seeing what MJ did every damn finals he went to. That MJ dude really got another SSJ level in him when things count the most.
Maybe i'm expecting too much out of him after seeing what MJ did every damn finals he went to. That MJ dude really got another SSJ level in him when things count the most.
Who could ever forget his 4th quarter performance against Dallas?
Locked Out
Banned
One of the best regular season QBs. Just like Lebron is one of the best regular season players. Ask me to pick a QB I'd want to win one huge game, and my list would not include Peyton.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Agree. If Wilt is any lower than #2 on your list, you don't have a list, you have a sham.
UnObtainium17
Member
Windhorst probably. JJ Barera sonned him. I think my plasma TV got a burned-in image of Bron stading in the 3pt corner doing absolutly nothing.
It was downhill from dwade from that point on too. Last time you can say he was healthy enough to be 100 in the finals.
ryutaro's mama
Member
IMO,
LeBron is
#1 all time.
4 Finals Ls on your resume is a bad look...unless your name is Earvin and you also have 5 Ws to go along with that.
LeBron is
0-2 without Spoletra, Wade and Bosh.
2-2 with them.
Amazing Eastern Conference Regular Season Fantasy Player, though.
2-2 with them.
Amazing Eastern Conference Regular Season Fantasy Player, though.
#1 all time.
HigherLevel
Member
Lol, LeBron the third best basketball player. Lol.
JinjoUnchained
Member
We tend to forget MJ's to periods of struggle in the Finals because the team found a way to win. The 70 win Bulls team was self destructing against the Sonics in the Finals after taking a 3-0 lead, Jordan struggled badly in Game 6(30% from the field), but Rodman bailed them out with a dominant two way performance. Game 6 against the Blazers, Pippen and the scrubs bailed MJ out in the 4th. Games 5-6 against the Jazz in 98, Jordan got outplayed by Malone, then pushed off on Russell to get the game winner (no call); he scored big in those games, but was highly inefficient.
It doesn't take anything away from Jordan's place as the GOAT, but he wasn't perfect. The point is that in addition to being the GOAT, he also had the best teams around him, who could pick up the slack when his play ebbed (as it does for all players).
Boombloxer
Member
Missed this, but the comparison is off, because the rate of swinging and hitting a bad pitch in baseball is different to taking and making a bad shot for basketball. Kobe is the best bad-shot maker in League history. Even taking efficiency into account, I'd take Kobe 10/10 times over LBJ if I need a bucket.
Duncan should be higher, yes. But, this is all stats-driven and little else, so...
Not really, MJ had plenty of terrible shooting nights in the Finals.
Difference is, he still won.
Bron isn't Top 5 to me, top 15 yes, Top 10 is arguable because the comparison has to go beyond stats; at that point it comes down to rings and moments. I can't really put him up there when he has the same amount of rings as Clyde.
diffusionx
Gold Member
My list is probably:
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. LeBron
9. West
This is true, and it's super annoying. He did as much as he could last year, but the team was just not as good as the Warriors.
But, he did not play well in three of the NBA Finals he lost. I'll cut him some slack when the Cavs got swept by the Spurs, but against Dallas and San Antonio in 2014, no way.
Also, the last year on his first go round in Cleveland, he had the best team in the league, and flat out quit on them in the playoffs, then ran to Miami. It's not a finals loss but it's pretty bad, even if Delonte banged his mom. These are legitimate dings on his resume, just like the way the Broncos crapped the bed against the Seahawks is a legitimate ding on Manning's.
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. LeBron
9. West
This is true, and it's super annoying. He did as much as he could last year, but the team was just not as good as the Warriors.
But, he did not play well in three of the NBA Finals he lost. I'll cut him some slack when the Cavs got swept by the Spurs, but against Dallas and San Antonio in 2014, no way.
Also, the last year on his first go round in Cleveland, he had the best team in the league, and flat out quit on them in the playoffs, then ran to Miami. It's not a finals loss but it's pretty bad, even if Delonte banged his mom. These are legitimate dings on his resume, just like the way the Broncos crapped the bed against the Seahawks is a legitimate ding on Manning's.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I would put Magic and Bird ahead of him.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Wade and Bosh in their primes, were scrubs, confirmed.
Colonel Nasty
Member
The point of game is to win I don't see why it wouldn't be a factor. I don't know how statistics are somehow a better metric for "greatness". You can put up high numbers on shit teams simply because you're always playing from behind.
More on the point of basketball, Lebron plays in the East against inferior competition. I could only imagine what his resume would look like if he had to go through the western conference each year.
Woody Invincible
Banned
Pissed that it knocked Bird out of the top 5.
Jordan, Bird, and Wilt better be in every top 5.
Jordan, Bird, and Wilt better be in every top 5.
Then you're simply foolish.
Smiles and Cries
Member
too high
I'd put him in the 6-8 range, with the caveat that it's stupid to put current players in an all time ranking list.
As it was phrased on JJ Reddick's latest podcast where they went over top 5 PG's, you don't say "this is my favorite book/movie/album" halfway through, the entire picture needs to come into focus before reflecting on where it sits in the pantheon. Same with professional sports careers. The concept behind the list is flawed in my opinion, just water cooler stuff.
As it was phrased on JJ Reddick's latest podcast where they went over top 5 PG's, you don't say "this is my favorite book/movie/album" halfway through, the entire picture needs to come into focus before reflecting on where it sits in the pantheon. Same with professional sports careers. The concept behind the list is flawed in my opinion, just water cooler stuff.
This too. The guy is from Akron and it's his job to basically cover (and promote) LeBron for ESPN.
Olajuwon was incredible, but I think there are good arguments for having Kareem, Wilt, Duncan, and Russel ahead of him.
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