DirgeExtinction
Member
In regards to that, I'm sure they meant no permanent female party members. They never said no female guest party members, considering they mentioned how the foursome would change their behavior depending on who the guests are.
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Final Fantasy XV Episode Duscae 2.0 coming in May | Trailer at E3, more at Gamescom
- Thread starter LuuKyK
- Start date
Hero Prinny
Member
His voice is wayyy to deep. Hardly understood a word he was saying. The rest of the squad sounds great imo
This is basically user testing. I wouldn't be shocked if half these things were in the inal game already. They just want feedback.
DirgeExtinction
Member
They actually admitted how some of the complaints were already addressed internally after the demo shipped.
Are only the people who responded to the survey eligible for the demo update or is it coming to anyone who has the demo installed on their PS4?
Also I was perfectly fine with Cindy and the voices of the main characters. I don't believe fan input should be at all incorporated when it comes to the artistic vision of a game...
"Sora's clothes have too many buckles. His feet are too big. Hair is too Goku. The keyblade needs to be sharper. Goofy should be wearing armor. Donald needs pants."
Feedback on mechanics is another thing entirely, especially when the devs say things like they aren't experienced with open-world or whatever, then yes, crowdsource opinions to your heart's content.
Also I was perfectly fine with Cindy and the voices of the main characters. I don't believe fan input should be at all incorporated when it comes to the artistic vision of a game...
"Sora's clothes have too many buckles. His feet are too big. Hair is too Goku. The keyblade needs to be sharper. Goofy should be wearing armor. Donald needs pants."
Feedback on mechanics is another thing entirely, especially when the devs say things like they aren't experienced with open-world or whatever, then yes, crowdsource opinions to your heart's content.
BadMediaKarma
Banned
Anyone with the demo installed
Now if Gladiolus looked like this, I would consider it to be on the same level:
Cidney isn't showing that much skin. That's not even close to a fair comparison.
TheSlySoul
Member
An update patch for a demo is way funny to me for some reason.
They ask the code before the survey sooo...
brandonh83
Banned
Seems like natural development progression based on feedback that they'll also be applying to the demo to let people see first-hand how things are going.
Suzushiiro
Banned
I don't know how anyone with the slightest understanding of the female audience for this sort of stuff can look at the male character designs as well as the dynamic between said characters and conclude that the game is solely trying to appeal to men and gives zero fucks about female players. The only way those characters could pander to fujoshi harder is if they were canonically gay.
BadMediaKarma
Banned
What do you mean?
Itchy//Tasty
Member
Oh man, I actually really like Noctis and Gladio's voices in the demo, it was the other two that were a problem for me.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
that's fine, really. Who has an issue with the male characters in the game and their portrayal?
Okay, since several people seem to think I'm reading things out of context or trusting bad translations from people who actually speak Japanese, let's take the Gematsu translation of this entire section: http://gematsu.com/2015/04/final-fa...duscae-2-0-coming-mid-may#dRafstObe1ty8BWZ.99
I'm having a lot of trouble reading that as anything other than:
1.) They think people are concerned about Cindy's appearance because they might get in trouble if their parents see a character showing that much skin, as opposed to it being an issue about respect.
2.) They imply that it's paradoxical people want a female party member, but think Cindy is too sexy, because why else would you want a female party member?
What's notably disappointing to me about this is that they got a ton of feedback about women in their game, but instead of interpreting it as adults asking for better representation of women, they're acting like their fans are a bunch of horny teenagers who have prudish parents.
#2 – Cindy is too sexy. Also, I want a female party member.
Tabata’s comment: “So do these go together? ‘Put Cindy in the party.’ ‘But she’s too sexy.’ I don’t get it.”
(So a lot of feedback from Europe was that Cindy is too sexy, but a lot of people also want a female party member. It does feel a bit contradictory.)
“About Cindy being too sexy, she’s actually not meant to be an erotic character. Her character is very energetic and outgoing, a very active character. With those traits paired with her appearance, we feel it wouldn’t be too problematic even if, say, she shows up on screen while your parents are in the living room. We feel it wouldn’t be too problematic. I just repeated myself there.”
(I think it’s more about the amount of skin she shows for a mechanic…
“Oh, I see. But she is a very cheerful and active character, I don’t think we want to change the current concept. So maybe it’s about moderating the way she’s presented, where it appears as though overly sexual themes are being brought to the forefront, because that’s not who she’s supposed to be. Maybe as long as we maintain those boundaries…
“Nakaaki-san, who’s been working on Cindy, is here with us. Should we ask him?”
…
“So what Nakaaki-san said, just like what I just just explained, is that her character is not about sex. She is not supposed to be too sexy, but the male members on the dev team did their best to create her. As a result, perhaps too much of their heart and soul went into her… So if we put too much into her, then we should remove the excess heart and soul, and make sure she’s a character you’d be completely comfortable seeing while in the living room. That’s where our line will be, so please be assured.
“In terms of adding a female character to the party, our concept is that this about following the foursome’s journey in an environment where they can be themselves, and thereby allowing the player to feel like they are traveling with them. So removing Prompto, who was the least favorite, and replacing him with a new female character just doesn’t sound right…
(I guess people are anxious because you said there would be guest party characters—like General Cor—so I think there’s a certain level of expectation coming from players…
“I see. We won’t be letting anyone down. Normally, it’s just the four guys, so the tent’s probably not in tip top shape, but if a female character gets thrown into the mix, you can expect things to be a little different than usual.
“They’ll probably clean and say things they wouldn’t normally say around her. Things like that. I think it’ll be fun to see the differences when the guys are being themselves, and when it’s not just the four of them. That’s how I want the players to journey with them. We’re working hard to make sure this really gets across. Please look forward to seeing the differences when a guest character joins your party.”
I'm having a lot of trouble reading that as anything other than:
1.) They think people are concerned about Cindy's appearance because they might get in trouble if their parents see a character showing that much skin, as opposed to it being an issue about respect.
2.) They imply that it's paradoxical people want a female party member, but think Cindy is too sexy, because why else would you want a female party member?
What's notably disappointing to me about this is that they got a ton of feedback about women in their game, but instead of interpreting it as adults asking for better representation of women, they're acting like their fans are a bunch of horny teenagers who have prudish parents.
I'm sorry that I couldn't find a picture that showed the exact same percentage of skin, the exact same pose as Cidney, with clothes with exact same colour as Cidney, and the exact same shitty design.
The point wasn't that the two designs are equal, but to show that appealing to an audience isn't the same as pandering to it. The designs of Gladiolus and Cidney are not equal in terms of "fanservice" and the argument that since Gladiolus shows a moderate amount of abs Cidney's design is perfectly ok isn't a sound argument.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
As someone who's still highly looking forward to the game, I wished the overall ratings for the demo aren't near as high as what's being collected here. Wouldn't want to send the wrong message and let the development team knew that they're made a masterpiece here.
..Maybe I just really wish Tabata will come out and talk about how they will go about designing the world and make exploration interesting, and how the quests are being handled, how much fetch quests are there, etc. I refuse to believe that nobody in the development team share what I felt about the landscape of Duscae in the demo being too flat and stale to explore.
Also want to know what other battle actions are available at Noctis's disposal. Is monster free-run still a thing? Haven't heard that in a long while. Also having doubts about the usefulness of a dedicated warp button. Is the main purpose of it is to teleport to a higher spot to recover MP, since it now has no use for quick traversal? How about the ability to swap weapon loadouts? Is there a way we can map weapon abilities to a shortcut button? Etc etc.
There are many more important things to discuss about the game that should take precedence over what an NPC wears.
..Maybe I just really wish Tabata will come out and talk about how they will go about designing the world and make exploration interesting, and how the quests are being handled, how much fetch quests are there, etc. I refuse to believe that nobody in the development team share what I felt about the landscape of Duscae in the demo being too flat and stale to explore.
Also want to know what other battle actions are available at Noctis's disposal. Is monster free-run still a thing? Haven't heard that in a long while. Also having doubts about the usefulness of a dedicated warp button. Is the main purpose of it is to teleport to a higher spot to recover MP, since it now has no use for quick traversal? How about the ability to swap weapon loadouts? Is there a way we can map weapon abilities to a shortcut button? Etc etc.
There are many more important things to discuss about the game that should take precedence over what an NPC wears.
Hero Prinny
Member
The female party member complaint tho... if you want that so bad go play that ff game with the all girl cast.
ActuallyHulk
Banned
Exactly. This is a cultural thing. Fujoshis absolutely love these kind of guys. Do you people know how much yaoi is going to be made here? I'd stake my life that there will be a hot springs scene with the four of them in a risque situations. Final Fantasy is a series where nearly everybody is eye candy. Square Enix is a Japanese company and they know what a lot of Japanese game playing women want.
M_Night was truly ahead of his time
brandonh83
Banned
Yeah, who wants to play new things?
ShadowSoldier89
Member
that defeats the fucking purpose as well. Most people that complained are people that enjoyed the diversity in casts in FF games and the interactions that provided
Cidney is also showing a moderate amount of skin though. I'm not sure what the problem is.
Stone Ocean
Member
A bunch of 8s is hardly a "masterpiece"
But... an all-female cast diversified the party dynamics of the franchise as a whole.
Sure it was cringeworthy at many points (all the girly hi-five mini-hops, girly talks, Brother lol) but you can't say it's like any party dynamic that existed prior in the franchise.
I think a lot of people seem to want "diversity" on a micro scale which leads more to "homogeneity" on a macro scale. Like shit, let's have every single game have a 50-50 split of males and females and always have a token Black character. Might as well throw in a token Latino character and a token Asian character while we're at it every single entry.
It's sorta like the misappropriation of the term "random" when someone flips a coin 5 times and it so happens to land 4 times heads, then you complain the coin isn't random. Having results like 4 heads is random. Having an exact 50-50 split in every single sample set isn't.
On one hand, you're saying that quantifying skin is a stupid thing, on the other, you're quantifying how "pandering" (a dumb phrase if you'd ask me) different characters are. There are male characters meant to look sexy for female players and vice versa. There is no difference in "pandering levels". You're probably more sensitive to Cindy because of your confirmation bias.
Hero Prinny
Member
Theyve said it time and time again. Why do you (I dont mean you specifically) keep bitching about the same exact thing? How many times do you want them to repeat the same exact shit? Its a game about bros, thats it. Buy it or get over it. Everything doesnt have to be diverse just for the sake of it, if this fits their vision then so be it. Id rather they do their own thing then add a female member just for the sake of it
sure play the new game, just accept its a game about bros doing bro shit. You want a female cast play that other ff game, want diversity play like any of the other ff games. Problem solved
SuperSonic1305
Member
ShadowSoldier89
Member
im just answering the batshit response you had, but idk, why do people keep bitching about cidney's fantastic outfit
As someone who was generally pleased with the demo, I'm halfway relieved that the feedback hasn't been incredibly negative and they don't have the desire to go back and change everything. There is a ton of features missing from the demo but the core is there, fix the lockon/camera and balance the MP usage and I think they are heading down the right track.
If you're IGN, sometimes 3 is a masterpiece.
It isn't about the exact percentage of skin shown, it is how sexualised the respective designs are. Also about how the characters are presented, how they move, what the camera focuses on, what they say, how the other characters interact with them, etc.
My point, which I thought was clear is that Gladiolus may be appealing (I don't find him to be), Cidney is pandering.
Adding to that Square Enix have already shown that they are capable of changing the design of a character based on the internet finding them "too sexy" so I immensely dislike they way that they are approaching this. Their comments on the stream are troubling as well.
edit:
I'm saying that quantifying the exact amount of skin shown is a stupid metric to appraise how sexualised a character is. I intentionally chose a stupid design of a warrior type person to illustrate how an overly sexualised Gladiolus might look, barely showing abs isn't equal to showing of underwear and pushing the boobs in your face. If you can't see how obvious the pandering is in the way that Cidney is presented in the game compared to the way they present Gladiolus then I'm not sure how I can convince you of it.
And what exactly is wrong with a sexualized presentation? I'm not finding the cause for outrage here. Some characters are typically portrayed that way in fiction, it's part of what makes it entertaining.
Hero Prinny
Member
I know little to nothing about game development but that would be way easier than adding another member to the squad and including them in the story, unless you just want thwm to just stand there and be ignored by the rest of the cast.
Personally, couldnt care less about her design. Could be in a suit of armor or her birthday suit, I honestly wouldnt care. At all.
Basically I dont really have an opinion on her design
BadMediaKarma
Banned
Dark_castle
Junior Member
I exaggerated it a little. Meant to say 'great game with little to zero issues'. When I looked at the world design aspect scoring 8.9, I couldn't believe what I saw.
NoctisVsStar
Member
I feel the same way, to me this is a non-issue in the grand scheme of things. Combat should be the only thing analyzing in great detail but I respect the otherside point of view.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Yeah, recent JRPG threads have been quite a bad place to come and discuss the technical aspects of these games. They mostly get dominated by charatcer designs (Star Ocean, FFXV, Xenoblade etc..)
My interest has decreased quite a bit in these threads.
Mentioned Batman in my feedback and with my 5/10 they might as well put me on the feedback team. Will soon graduate with a degree in Marketing.
Hit me up, Square. NeoGAF PM is fine.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I can't believe another FFXV thread has devolved into a Cidney debate. A character with limited importance. The only real disappointment, is how Tabata doesn't seem to "get" the motivation for people wanting female characters. Hope that means female guest characters aren't scantily clad airheads.
Because this is the "grassland" section, and as a grassland, it looks pretty fricking great.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
I suppose the designs are sexualized, both male and female, but at the same time we are evolved monkey's that came from thousands of years of self sexualization and sex with one another. Even the dev team were born from sex which came from the act of human sexualization. Its all natural man.
Damerman
Member
damn, after that comment about female party member and sexual cindy being a contradiction... they literally have no choice but to change cindy's design. Either that, or add a female party member. I really want to see the whole dynamic of "all male cast", but if they are going to be this insensitive... something's gotta give.