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Fitness |OT3| BroScience, Protein Dysentery, XXL Calf Implants, and Squat Rack Hogs

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Quick question: I'm at about 22-25% body fat (according to some simple online calculators). I watched a video recommending I start with a caloric deficit until I drop down to anywhere from 8 to 12% before I really start a bulking phase. It makes sense, but I want to know what others think.

Although I'm thinking something like 15% would be more achievable for this phase, then working on getting down to 10% the next phase.
I would definitely do a cut first. But you don't need to be 8 to 12 percent to bulk unless you are going for the body builder look and even then I don't see a point without a decent mass base underneath. Skinny and shredded is not a hot look. Down to 15% and then a bulk sounds good IMO.
 

despire

Member


Thanks for the thorough answer :)

I'm still working my way through SS so there's not that much room for extra work. Bought the Convict Conditioning and been practising some of the lower level movements for starters. The slow speed in which you are suggested to do them makes some of them quite a bit more difficult.

I'm starting 5/3/1 myself sometime in the near future. Probably doing BBB for a while but I'm trying to incorporate some calisthenics too sooner or later.
 

Mr.City

Member
Quick question: I'm at about 22-25% body fat (according to some simple online calculators). I watched a video recommending I start with a caloric deficit until I drop down to anywhere from 8 to 12% before I really start a bulking phase. It makes sense, but I want to know what others think.

Although I'm thinking something like 15% would be more achievable for this phase, then working on getting down to 10% the next phase.

Lyle McDonald is a big supporter of that idea. Something about it keeps bodyweight gains geared more towards muscle rather than fat. It's quite a way if you're at 22% though

Day 2 of cutting...

Breakfast - 2 eggs, 1 egg white, 2 pieces of bacon

Lunch - 8 oz of pork, 2 cups lettuce, 1 cup broccoli, 2 tbsp of spinach dip all mixed.

Dinner - 3 Italian sausages, 2 cups green beans.

Snacks - scoop of whey in water.

That's not a lot of food. Trying to get those summer cuts quick?

I was at the gym today and this girl I know from HS saw me and said that I don't look like I'm gaining any muscle. Everyone else I see says that I look good and fit lately. I said that she doesn't look like she's losing any weight and left.

What a bitch.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

I finally started strength training with my personal trainer at the gym last week. I'm a 23 year old thin guy who's looking to add strength and become bigger in all areas.

I'll work out 1 hour a time, 2 times a week, drinking a protein shake before and after training, while eating stuff like chicken, egg and generally lots of meat.

This is the program I got handed.

Well, you asked for a strength program, and instead, got something out of an issue of Flex. A good program for a novice lifter is a emphasis on the main movements (squat, bench, deadlift, press, clean) and eating smart (a good amount of protein, adequate amounts of carbs/fats from good sources)

Owz, I'll try do the program my trainer has given me (I would think he knows what he's doing, as he's pretty much expensive, has a military background and has been into it for more than 20 years). =/

I fail to see what a high price tag and a military background have to do with lifting weights and being a decent coach. The proof of his competence is in his work. This program feels very generic and, like other posters have said here, lacks direction.

Entrian:

My friend is 6'0, and weighed in at 200 pounds before his cut. Now he's 180 and shredded. He told me at 2,000 calories a day, and not ate carbs after 5pm. 80g of carbs was the daily max he ate.

What was the rationale behind no carbs after 5pm?

Need advice, fellers.

Got a new job (retail, standing around), so my problem isn't really fitting in workouts, but more to figure out what I want my caloric intake to be.

I'm trying to cut for the summer, so muscle growth + fat loss. I'm 6'1" and 230 lbs, and I've been eating about 2k consistently since the start of the month (give or take a few; I go off MyFitnessPal's calculated suggestions).

Since I'm going to be burning more calories by being on my feet most of the days, I'm just wondering if 2200-2500 sounds good for a cut deficit. In fact, I worry that I undereat. I try to do half an hour of intense cardio every morning right after I wake up, and then weight train in the afternoon or evening (work out 6 days a week).

My daily spread is about 215g protein/110g carbohydrates/70g fat.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-to-estimate-maintenance-caloric-intake.html
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Ok, this is fucked up. I go to my University gym for the first time in 4 years. They have a badass squat rack, new weights (plates LBS AND Kilo) and they even have a fucking platform.

What the fuck.

My golds gym needs to get on the fucking ball.
 
Ok, this is fucked up. I go to my University gym for the first time in 4 years. They have a badass squat rack, new weights (plates LBS AND Kilo) and they even have a fucking platform.

What the fuck.

My golds gym needs to get on the fucking ball.

What! No gym that I have been to in the last 3 years has a platform. Golds has gone to crap. About 20x's as many ellipticals as there are weights.
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
What! No gym that I have been to in the last 3 years has a platform. Golds has gone to crap. About 20x's as many ellipticals as there are weights.

Yep, it was a squat rack/platform combo with hard wood flooring in the middle of it (probably laminate).

The platform was probably 5-6 feet to the rear of the rack. It was a thing of beauty.
 
Yep, it was a squat rack/platform combo with hard wood flooring in the middle of it (probably laminate).

The platform was probably 5-6 feet to the rear of the rack. It was a thing of beauty.

When I lived in NY there was this basement gym that had a glorious rack like that. Also had chalk, man I miss chalk.
 

ezrarh

Member
Ok, this is fucked up. I go to my University gym for the first time in 4 years. They have a badass squat rack, new weights (plates LBS AND Kilo) and they even have a fucking platform.

What the fuck.

My golds gym needs to get on the fucking ball.

Yeah, good luck finding a chain gym that has a platform. I have missed my school gym dearly. Fortunately, where I'm moving in a couple weeks, there's a good gym somewhat close. 4 platforms, prowlers, some strongman equipment, I'm excited.
 

Cheeto

Member
I'm about 30 minutes and a $4 bridge toll away from Ironsport gym... that is my only option for a real gym in my area. http://www.ironsport.com/

I really want to train there but I can't afford the added cost of the toll right now. :( I mean, they have fucking atlas stones...FUCK.. I need to redo my budget
 
yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah buddy!

1x20 @ 180 squats. Then 3x10 @ 85 db bench. This past weekend, I was able to do 1x5 @ 245 for bb bench.

Eating my poached chicken and it is delicious. Seriously, I got 8 lbs of chicken and I am ready to fuck all this up.

LET'S GO!!!
 

Srsly

Banned
Heh, I did 1x20 @ 195 squats yesterday and it it was difficult, but not that difficult. Probably could have cranked out another several reps. I think I can do a 20 rep set @ 225 lbs, which I'm going to attempt the next time I'm in the gym. I wonder what 225x20 would correlate to as a 1 rep max, I don't trust the online rep calculators.
 

balddemon

Banned
back day today
deadlifted 355 1x5. hooooo boy that is a lot of weight. 2.02xBW to be almost exact. only need 437.5 to hit my goal of 2.5xBW lol i dont think thats happening this summer
 

SeanR1221

Member
That translates to a little over a pound of a week. That can be a little tough if you follow a more conventional form of diet.

What do you reccomed I change? I posted my full plan a couple pages back, but in short strong lift exercises at the weight where my form is perfect but im still pushing myself and I'll be running on 2 of my off days, completely resting on 2 other days.
 

Draft

Member
Heh, I did 1x20 @ 195 squats yesterday and it it was difficult, but not that difficult. Probably could have cranked out another several reps. I think I can do a 20 rep set @ 225 lbs, which I'm going to attempt the next time I'm in the gym. I wonder what 225x20 would correlate to as a 1 rep max, I don't trust the online rep calculators.
First, you shouldn't trust online calculators. Second, whatever you can do for 10 you can do for 20. A 20 rep set is more about mental fortitude than any sort of muscular strength or endurance. Not that muscular strength and endurance isn't necessary for a 20 rep set, it's just like you wouldn't use marathon time to calculate 40 yard dash time.
 

Trey

Member
First, you shouldn't trust online calculators. Second, whatever you can do for 10 you can do for 20. A 20 rep set is more about mental fortitude than any sort of muscular strength or endurance. Not that muscular strength and endurance isn't necessary for a 20 rep set, it's just like you wouldn't use marathon time to calculate 40 yard dash time.

I didn't understand this at all, and the closing analogy confused me even more. Can you explain.
 

Petrie

Banned
I didn't understand this at all, and the closing analogy confused me even more. Can you explain.

Trying to figure out how much you can 1rm based on what you can do for 20 reps, is like saying: well I can run a 3200 in 12 minutes, so my 100 time would be 22.5. You simply can't extrapolate like that.
 
The Lifetime Fitness in Sugar Land, TX had a decent amount of equipment. Like 3 squat racks, two platforms and 6 benches. But I haven't been a member there in over 2 years so I don't know what it's like now.
 

X-Frame

Member
For all your Intermittent Fasters:

When you eat matters, not just what you eat (Mice Study)

When it comes to weight gain, when you eat might be at least as important as what you eat. That's the conclusion of a study reported in the Cell Press journal Cell Metabolism published early online on May 17th.

When mice on a high-fat diet are restricted to eating for eight hours per day, they eat just as much as those who can eat around the clock, yet they are protected against obesity and other metabolic ills, the new study shows. The discovery suggests that the health consequences of a poor diet might result in part from a mismatch between our body clocks and our eating schedules.

"Every organ has a clock," said lead author of the study Satchidananda Panda of the Salk Institute for Biological Studies. That means there are times that our livers, intestines, muscles, and other organs will work at peak efficiency and other times when they are -- more or less -- sleeping.

Those metabolic cycles are critical for processes from cholesterol breakdown to glucose production, and they should be primed to turn on when we eat and back off when we don't, or vice versa. When mice or people eat frequently throughout the day and night, it can throw off those normal metabolic cycles.

"When we eat randomly, those genes aren't on completely or off completely," Panda said. The principle is just like it is with sleep and waking, he explained. If we don't sleep well at night, we aren't completely awake during the day, and we work less efficiently as a consequence.
To find out whether restricted feeding alone -- without a change in calorie intake -- could prevent metabolic disease, Panda's team fed mice either a standard or high-fat diet with one of two types of food access: ad lib feeding or restricted access.

The time-restricted mice on a high-fat diet were protected from the adverse effects of a high-fat diet and showed improvements in their metabolic and physiological rhythms. They gained less weight and suffered less liver damage. The mice also had lower levels of inflammation, among other benefits.

Panda says there is reason to think our eating patterns have changed in recent years, as many people have greater access to food and reasons to stay up into the night, even if just to watch TV. And when people are awake, they tend to snack.

The findings suggest that restricted meal times might be an underappreciated lifestyle change to help people keep off the pounds. At the very least, the new evidence suggests that this is a factor in the obesity epidemic that should be given more careful consideration.

"The focus has been on what people eat," Panda said. "We don't collect data on when people eat."
 

Draft

Member
Trying to figure out how much you can 1rm based on what you can do for 20 reps, is like saying: well I can run a 3200 in 12 minutes, so my 100 time would be 22.5. You simply can't extrapolate like that.
Yes, that's what I meant. The calculators are useful for estimating a 1RM but they start very inaccurate and once you get above 5 reps they are practically useless.
 

Tess3ract

Banned
I'm pretty sedentary and I don't want to go to the gym anymore, but I have Power90 and P90x videos (sans weights and chinup bar things)

Would it be good for be to try and keep my caloric intake low and start those programs? Do you think I'd see any success?
 
I wouldn't go much lower than 2500 calories a day if you are really working out 6 days a week. I'm an inch shorter than you and around the same weight and 2200 calories is how much I should eat to stay the same weight if I'm doing absolutely nothing at all. My cutting calories are at 2700 and I lose 1 - 2 lbs per week and I only work out 5 days a week.
My problem is I have to force myself to eat to maintain 2500, lol. What are some good extra sources of calories that won't throw my macro out of whack with fats or starches? Just increase my portions, I suppose?
What was the rationale behind no carbs after 5pm?
Yeah, I saw an article within the past week that a lot of those studies which claimed "evening carbs = fat gain" were slanted, because the test subjects ate bad/sugary/starchy carbs rather than good options.

Btw, that HB calculation put me at around 3000 calories, so I guess 2500 is good for a cut....

::edit::
Etrian:

My friend is 6'0, and weighed in at 200 pounds before his cut. Now he's 180 and shredded. He told me at 2,000 calories a day, and not ate carbs after 5pm. 80g of carbs was the daily max he ate.
I dunno about less than 70g carbs, though. I seriously crash if I don't have around 80 or 90... especially considering that half my workouts are going to have to be after work (thus in the evening) now.
 

entremet

Member
I'm pretty sedentary and I don't want to go to the gym anymore, but I have Power90 and P90x videos (sans weights and chinup bar things)

Would it be good for be to try and keep my caloric intake low and start those programs? Do you think I'd see any success?


But P90x can be rough. You probably will need maintainance calories or more just keep with it, but it creates a big deficit anyway, so you don't want to go too low.

Probably better asking the P90x people. I toyed with P90x, just not my thing.

http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=459109

On other matters, I've played around with a body building routine today. Boy was it boring. I'm spoiled by SS simplicity.
 

Mr.City

Member
I'm pretty sedentary and I don't want to go to the gym anymore, but I have Power90 and P90x videos (sans weights and chinup bar things)

Would it be good for be to try and keep my caloric intake low and start those programs? Do you think I'd see any success?

I think you should go out and pick out your retirement home.

Yeah, I saw an article within the past week that a lot of those studies which claimed "evening carbs = fat gain" were slanted, because the test subjects ate bad/sugary/starchy carbs rather than good options.

Btw, that HB calculation put me at around 3000 calories, so I guess 2500 is good for a cut....

http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/06/15/why-nutritional-dogma-dies-hard/

The above quote is so packed with broscience, it’s enough to provide a strong case for more research-based discussion on John’s subforum. Regarding the “don’t mix carbs with fat” myth, I wrote an article debunking it here. As for warning against carbs at night, there’s nothing inherently fattening about night-time carbs unless they contribute to a chronic surplus of calories that isn’t used for building lean tissue. The ONLY reason cutting carbs out of the evening works for controlling fat gain in some folks is because it restricts total caloric intake for the day.

“No carbs at night” is nothing more than a calorie-cutting-for-dummies tactic. Can it work? Yes, it can. In the case of people who tend to overeat carbo-liscious foods at night, this can serve as a default solution, but it’s not a guideline that should be universally recommended. What works just as well is cutting back on an equivalent amount of calories earlier in the day. There are no night-time insulin fairies ready & waiting to store carbs in the fat tissue — at least not at any greater rate than they would do so during the day.

Is there research to back up the claim that shifting the majority of your carbs to the later part of the day won’t magically chub you up or make it tougher to lose fat? Yes there is – and this occurred despite exercise being in the earlier part of the day for both groups compared [1]. For those who put a lot of stock in case studies, the lack of fattening effect of pre-bed carbs has plenty of examples - particularly in Martin Berkhan’s clientele [2].
 

Tess3ract

Banned
I like being at the gym, but im severely depressed and can barely leave my apartment. I'm trying to take baby steps and this is where I'm trying to start.
 
Going to the gym consistently can be great for you. By going often you can do your own thing and don't ever feel intimidated or embarrassed. Even the gorilla in front of the mirror started out somewhere. After a while you start to build a sense of community there through both verbal and non verbal communication between both the staff and members you often see there.

I would personally invest that P90 money into a few sessions with a personal trainer, have him construct a workout plan for you based on your goals and force yourself to follow it. Your body and mind will both feel much better.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
I've been MIA these past few weeks. This because with my shoulder hurting so much I was unable to lift very much. I stuck to lower weight and higher rep work. Here's my DB chest press:

75x20
80x15
90x12
100x10

It was definitely tiring but it is nowhere near as satisfying as finishing with 130s. Oh well...Good news is its' been feeling better and I actually did 8 muscle ups today and I still don't have any pain.

The only thing that has been keeping me mildly excited about going is my squat. Today I got 315 6 times and very deep.

Sucks getting old.
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
I've been MIA these past few weeks. This because with my shoulder hurting so much I was unable to lift very much. I stuck to lower weight and higher rep work. Here's my DB chest press:

75x20
80x15
90x12
100x10

It was definitely tiring but it is nowhere near as satisfying as finishing with 130s. Oh well...Good news is its' been feeling better and I actually did 8 muscle ups today and I still don't have any pain.

The only thing that has been keeping me mildly excited about going is my squat. Today I got 315 6 times and very deep.

Sucks getting old.

I figured that's where you went. Glad you're healed up!
 

entremet

Member
I've been MIA these past few weeks. This because with my shoulder hurting so much I was unable to lift very much. I stuck to lower weight and higher rep work. Here's my DB chest press:

75x20
80x15
90x12
100x10

It was definitely tiring but it is nowhere near as satisfying as finishing with 130s. Oh well...Good news is its' been feeling better and I actually did 8 muscle ups today and I still don't have any pain.

The only thing that has been keeping me mildly excited about going is my squat. Today I got 315 6 times and very deep.

Sucks getting old.

I remember you were doing muscle ups. Be careful with doing too much volume on those. I hear that can wreck your shoulders. Those and kipping pull ups at high volume.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
I remember you were doing muscle ups. Be careful with doing too much volume on those. I hear that can wreck your shoulders. Those and kipping pull ups at high volume.

I think they caused my shoulder pain but I have no evidence of it. I think I'll stay at lower rep ranges from mow on. Today I did 2 and went straight to 10 wide grip pull ups.
 
I think they caused my shoulder pain but I have no evidence of it. I think I'll stay at lower rep ranges from mow on. Today I did 2 and went straight to 10 wide grip pull ups.

I tried doing 8 muscle-ups at work last week and I messed up my left shoulder. I can still workout, but I just can't do dips, so yeah. Be careful.

Yeah, I saw an article within the past week that a lot of those studies which claimed "evening carbs = fat gain" were slanted, because the test subjects ate bad/sugary/starchy carbs rather than good options.

A simple Google search shows a lot of results on the theory of not eating carbs after 5pm. I'm sure there are readings that dispute the claim, but whatever; it worked for him.
 
What he said:



There is no greater anti-depressant that a set of heavy squats.

Seriously, there's even scientific studies of certain "feel good" hormones being heavily released during resistance training.

endorphins babyyyyyyyyyy!

When I'm in the gym and after lifting a heavy set, I'm always smiling. People always ask me all the time why and I just can't explain it. Gotta love it.
 
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