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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT PART 2| Season 6 - [Read the OP]

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S

Stevetopsy

Member
zethren said:
Honestly Sansa probably just didn't tell Jon because she doesn't know how much she can, or should, trust Little Finger. So she probably doesn't know how much her brother, and army, should trust him either. There wasn't much room to gamble in this scenario, so she ultimately took it into her own hands.

I think it was much more an emotional decision on her part than anything calculative.
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Probably the closest to the truth, in my opinion. It seemed to me like she just wanted nothing to do with LIttlefinger after he gave her to Ramsey and certainly didn't want to have to cave in and admit that she still needed his help after turning him and his army away like she did. Her character is trying to mature and grow wise and take charge of her future. The conversation with Petyr was an important step in that and she was desperate to not go back on it and trust Littlefinger with anything ever again. Even if things went the best they could hope for she would still be in his debt afterwards. I'm not saying there won't be some progression to Jon/Sansa/LF's relationships that explore things like how much she really trusts Jon, but I don't think that was a factor here.

All the speculation and attention to detail reminds me of a few episodes ago when Arya got stabbed and people were expecting something other than the obvious because she was acting so oddly out of character, or using her right hand when she's a lefty, etc. GoT is usually pretty good when it comes to characters acting in a believable, or at least internally consistent manner so when it doesn't it makes you feel as if there's something more happening there. It's usually when something is done for dramatic purposes or because a character has major plot armor.

I just saw more of the same old Sansa this episode. Going on about needing more men over and over as if Snow can just pull them out of his back pocket, scolding him for not asking her about the battle plan as if 1) there was ever any reason to think she'd know anything about strategy and 2) Is she not a big girl who is able to speak up about some potentially vital info/advice she has without first having to be personally acknowledged and coddled. Taking back Winterfell was her idea, not Jon's, and he's out there fighting and bleeding for her cause while his fellow men and brothers are being slaughtered and she doesn't trust him enough? "Okay, I need to play the game... which means keeping secrets and making unexpected moves." It's like she gleaned only a superficial understanding of things and none of the subtleties. Just like when they went looking for soldiers, she was trying to act like a Lord or Lady would act who commands respect , loyalty, and even fear but misses why they commands those things in the first place. She just shows up out of nowhere, has no idea what these people have been through and given, and then just expects "if I act this way and say these things they have to respect me!" She's come a long way and is obviously much better than she used to be, but to me she still seems like a naive kid trying to act like she sees the adults do.
 
cormack12

cormack12

Gold Member
Only just got caught up. Really good episode I thought. Only one scene that was a bit overlong - the Jon suffocating scene and then taking a breath on the bodies.

If Rickon had started zig-zagging and frustrated Ramsey enough, he would have just loosed a volley from his soldiers. It's clearly just for the screen to heighten the standoff between Jon and Ramsey. It was a bit of melodrama for a the purpose of poetic storytelling.

The Theon/Yara scene was really good too, not convinced by the deal though.

Good to see Dany wreck shit. Nice to see the good guys win. I was worried Jon's honour was going to keep Ramsey alive at one point as prisoner.

Littlefinger doesn't want to be the king on the chessboard he just wants control of all the pieces. I can't help but think Sansa will out manoeuvre him though - I think that's nailed on. The interesting sub plot will be what she sacrifices to do that imo.

Anyway, one more episode to go. Season has flown by and is easily the best when taken as a whole for me.
 
S

soundscream

Member
Heads up if you visit polygon you might want to avoid the site for a bit. They just put up a article with a title that contains a book character spoiler. I was spoiled on it 3 seasons ago so I don't care but it's kind of fucked up that they put it up like that.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
soundscream said:
Heads up if you visit polygon you might want to avoid the site for a bit. They just put up a article with a title that contains a book character spoiler. I was spoiled on it 3 seasons ago so I don't care but it's kind of fucked up that they put it up like that.
Click to expand...

Not sure what this could mean but it sounds rather interesting.

[edit]

I bet in season 8 we will still have random book spoilers.
 
S

soundscream

Member
Einchy said:
Not sure what this could mean but it sounds rather interesting.

[edit]

I bet in season 8 we will still have random book spoilers.
Click to expand...

At least they changed the photo they had up originally for the article. My phone gets stories automatically sent to it and it had a fan art picture. If I hadn't been spoiled years ago I would have been livid.
 
P

pretty done

Member
Brolic Gaoler said:
This season had two of the worst episodes in the series. If not rate it top two IMO.
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I'm pretty sure the Dorne fight scene was in season 5. I hated No One just as much as anyone else, but it still wasn't as bad as S05E06.

I'm also pretty sure literally fucking nothing happened in the first 4-5 episodes of season 5

S6 is weird because I feel the episodes are either godlike or mediocre. There's not much in between this season.
 
N

Neospartan

Neo Member
soundscream said:
Heads up if you visit polygon you might want to avoid the site for a bit. They just put up a article with a title that contains a book character spoiler. I was spoiled on it 3 seasons ago so I don't care but it's kind of fucked up that they put it up like that.
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Nah, it's too late for that character.
That character's plotline starts a few years before the current events of the show, it just can't happen anymore... as awesome as it would be.
Plus, we can't be introducing new characters at this point in the story, and even less so at this point in the season.

If anything, they could give their plotline to another character.
 
S

soundscream

Member
Neospartan said:
Nah, it's too late for that character.
That character's plotline starts a few years before the current events of the show, it just can't happen anymore... as awesome as it would be.
Plus, we can't be introducing new characters at this point in the story, and even less so at this point in the season.

If anything, they could give their plotline to another character.
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I know but he still shouldn't have posted it the way he did.

He was taken to task about it on Twitter and he defended himself by asking "how long have the books been out?".Nevermind the article was talking about the show.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
soundscream said:
I know but he still shouldn't have posted it the way he did.

He was taken to task about it on Twitter and he defended himself by asking #how long have the books been out?".Nevermind the article was talking about the show.
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I saw the post earlier and cringed a little- even if you mistakenly clicked, there was no avoiding it as it was right there at the top haha. Not the first time that Polygon has done that. i09 has done that before also, with something else in GoT.
 
N

Neospartan

Neo Member
soundscream said:
I know but he still shouldn't have posted it the way he did.

He was taken to task about it on Twitter and he defended himself by asking "how long have the books been out?".Nevermind the article was talking about the show.
Click to expand...

You say the article had another image, right?
Yeaaah, he sounds like a jerk.
 
S

soundscream

Member
wesleyshark said:
I saw the post earlier and cringed a little- even if you mistakenly clicked, there was no avoiding it as it was right there at the top haha. Not the first time that Polygon has done that. i09 has done that before also, with something else in GoT.
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It's not hard to do it correctly. If he would have just wrote " I believe a certain book character is going to make an appearance next episode" and not put up a fan art picture of said character attached to the article it would have been fine.

Neospartan said:
You say the article had another image, right?
Yeaaah, he sounds like a jerk.
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Yeah the original picture in conjunction with the title was almost the most obvious spoiler you could post. Even if it never happens in the show.
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
poppabk said:
I wonder if he has any substantial part to play beyond forcing yarra and theon out of the iron isles and towards Dany. It seems a little late in the day to be adding a major protagonist.
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Without Euron there wouldn't be #Daenara. Yara would still be in Iron Islands fiddling with her thumbs.

The One Who Knocks said:
Littlefinger or Daenerys are the most likely to me. Littlefinger for obvious reason, and Daenerys because she's in direct conflict with anybody in Westeros who won't immediately bow to her (I don't foresee every house just shaking hands with her), has a tendency to burn people alive who oppose her (even if that also sets her up as a saviour against the White Walkers, it's not exactly the most heroic of execution methods, particularly when she has Lord of Light support; Tyrion may try to dissuade it, but I can't see her listening entirely). and her support which she will be bringing to Westeros consists of an army without feelings, sellswords, Iron Borns who are wanted dead by the King of the Iron Islands, dragons, and the Dothraki horde who are renowned as rapists and plunderers. While we've followed her for six seasons and she's been portrayed as a very self-righteous individual, she's in an excellent position to be a villain who plans on conquering Westeros in opposition to almost every noble house in the show.

There's also the matter of the White Walkers who are in a pretty villainous role.

As for which will be the most hated by viewers? I couldn't really say.
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Do people seriously zone out when Dany scenes happen? Every single person Dany has fought has been of the villainous type. You're making it seem as if Dany has been rampaging around in a campaign to kill and subjugate civilians and innocent people. Is freeing people from one of the most brutal depiction of slavery a self-righteous thing that makes her a villain? The Dothraki have seen Dany emerge from fire unburnt, she also has 3 dragons, and she has just told Yara that there will be no more harming of civilians period. But somehow the Dothraki are just going to ignore what she'll tell them?

Sansa just fed a guy to his dogs and walked out of there smirking. Do you see her being a villain as well?


Window said:
This keeps coming up through the years (because the show keeps bringing up the comparison) but I don't think Dany will ever be the antagonist for descending into madness or go down 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' thing. She is not a moral relativist and actively subjugates others to match her own sense of justice but considering what this has been so far (abolition of slavery, pillaging, raping and serving as an idol of a strong woman in a highly misogynist world), this has not been portrayed as a negative. Her means of getting what she wants have been questioned at times (to highlight her inexperience) but her ideals have not. There maybe some brief conflict with the Starks initially but it will not be portrayed as a case of Dany being a villain. She is being shown as a benevolent despot.
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Exactly. The vast majority of people watching this show do not view what Dany is doing as evil. She chose to free people from slavery and had to deal with men who would fight a nasty war to keep people enslaved. Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way and some people do actually root for the masters. From that perspective I can see how she can come across as villainous to you.
 
V

Volimar

Member
Also, no one follows Dany that doesn't want to. I mean, I suppose some of the second sons don't want to, but that's on pretty boy.

TYW3U1V.png
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
Probably not the first time Iwan's been punched in the face. I can just see him throwing down in some random mosh pit or pub brawl.
 
H

Hydrus

Member
Fucking hell Tormund has such a badass voice! That dude needs to do some voice acting work. Put him in God of War!!!
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Stevetopsy said:
Snip
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What? No. She made the only choice that would have worked. It's a touch choice, a brutal choice, but anything else would have ended in disaster. Jon is the naive one between the two of them.

What happens if she tells Jon? He waits, adds the Vale forces to his own, takes the larger (but still outnumbered) army to the field and Ramsey either still engages them because he has the numbers or, more likely, retreats to Winterfell and prepares for a siege

Keep the extra forces secret, and let Ramsey confidently, cockily send his army into the fray, and you can ambush his army with reinforcements they were completely unprepared for. The ultimate sucker punch
 
D

Dai101

Banned
MrPing1000 said:
Lord Giantsbane of course and his lovely wife Lady Giantsbane (née Tarth)

Bit of a power vacuum with the Karstark and Umbers need sorting out too.
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That would be a nice prize for Tormund after all shit has happened between them.

I guess Lil' Lady Mormont now can have some subjects and vasals too.

Heshinsi said:
What happened to that perverted shit anyways?
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Nowhere to be found, Probably poisoned by his enemies.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
More_Badass said:
What? No. She made the only choice that would have worked. It's a touch choice, a brutal choice, but anything else would have ended in disaster. Jon is the naive one between the two of them.

What happens if she tells Jon? He waits, adds the Vale forces to his own, takes the larger (but still outnumbered) army to the field and Ramsey either still engages them because he has the numbers or, more likely, retreats to Winterfell and prepares for a siege

Keep the extra forces secret, and let Ramsey confidently, cockily send his army into the fray, and you can ambush his army with reinforcements they were completely unprepared for. The ultimate sucker punch
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Exactly
 
G

-griffy-

Banned
Pandora put up full previews of the soundtrack and someone put them up on YouTube already. Here's the music from the Battle of the Bastards (careful looking at the channel if you want to find the other tracks, some of the track names might be slightly spoilery for the finale if you are really sensitive).

Track 14, "Let's Play a Game," covers the beginning, from Rickon's run to Jon facing the cavalry.

Track 15, "Bastard," is the rest of the battle until the Knights of the Vale arrive.

Also here's track 9, "Hold the Door." Self explanatory. It's over 7 minutes long.
 
T

Tonky

Member
-griffy- said:
Pandora put up full previews of the soundtrack and someone put them up on YouTube already. Here's the music from the Battle of the Bastards (careful looking at the channel if you want to find the other tracks, some of the track names might be slightly spoilery for the finale if you are really sensitive).

Track 14, "Let's Play a Game," covers the begging, from Rickon's run to Jon facing the cavalry.

Track 15, "Bastard," is the rest of the battle until the Knights of the Vale arrive.

Also here's track 9, "Hold the Door." Self explanatory. It's over 7 minutes long.
Click to expand...
"Let's Play a Game" doesn't really sound consistent with the rest of GOT's soundtrack/themes. It's a cool track that built anxiety well during that scene, but not reminiscent of the world of GOT.
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
StormKing said:
This article is pretty much how I think of Sansa's behavior this episode.

http://theweek.com/articles/631406/game-thrones-sansa-problem
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Remember when Brienne asks Sansa why she needs to go to Riverrun in person? "We can send the Blackfish a raven," Brienne offers. "We can't risk Ramsey intercepting it. It has to be you," says Sansa, who proceeds to send Littlefinger a raven.
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Sansa says. And finally: "A monster has taken our home and our brother. We have to go back to Winterfell and save them both." Having gotten Jon to commit to fighting, she calmly explains to a baffled Jon this week that the "saving Rickon" part of her spiel is naive: He's as good as dead.
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Shits all over the place with Sansa. She also can't trust LF word when he says he'll help her, but can trust his word when he says that the Blackfish is alive.

Urges Jon to help save Rickon and take back Winterfell -----> Rickon is a lost cause she says before the battle. She says the Rickon alive is a threat to Ramsay. Which means that Rickon was as good as dead the moment they received that letter.

She can't trust what LF says about helping -----> But she can trust what he says about BF being alive, and then proceeds to hide where she got the info from.

Can't use ravens to send BF a message because Ramsay might intercept -----> Can send raven to LF for help.

Just like Arya, I'm beginning to think the writers simply forget scenes these characters have in earlier episodes.
 
S

soundscream

Member
Heshinsi said:
Just like Arya, I'm beginning to think the writers simply forget scenes these characters have in earlier episodes.
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Just like they forgot all about the Boltons archers :)

Not like they would have made a difference against the heavy Calvary from the vale. Maybe a volley or two but that's it.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Heshinsi said:
Just like Arya, I'm beginning to think the writers simply forget scenes these characters have in earlier episodes.
Click to expand...

Arya? What about Cersei? The season opens with her daughter returned to her as a corpse, and the crown prince of Dorne murdered by the same assassins while in their care. Two episodes later, she can't even remember that she had a daughter. By mid-season she and Jaime are more worried about Riverrun than any sort of vengeance on Dorne. There isn't even any mention of them checking on the situation there, sending any messenger, or whatever. It's insane!
 
T

Tonky

Member
duckroll said:
Arya? What about Cersei? The season opens with her daughter returned to her as a corpse, and the crown prince of Dorne murdered by the same assassins while in their care. Two episodes later, she can't even remember that she had a daughter. By mid-season she and Jaime are more worried about Riverrun than any sort of vengeance on Dorne. There isn't even any mention of them checking on the situation there, sending any messenger, or whatever. It's insane!
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She accepted that all of her children are going to die before her. That's why she doesn't give a shit about Tommen anymore either. Even Jaime told her that the only people in the world that mattered were the two of them, and she just sort of accepted that too. If anything, Jaime is the character with no continuity.
 
B

BY2K

Membero Americo
So lots of good things happened to good guys recently.

...

Somebody important is gonna die, soon.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
AlphaDragoon said:
Yup. They're pissing me off with how they're portraying her. She's either monumentally stupid or a monumental douchebag who sold out her own brothers.
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She learned from the best worst. Cersei, Joffrey, and the entire royal court at King's Landing, Littlefinger, Ramsey were all her teachers.

Arya too. Her teachers were the Hound and a band of supernatural assassins

Compared to Jon, who's lived among a brotherhood and has been fighting for the greater good for the entire show, fighting the real threat to all of Westeros

Think about that. Think about what Jon has learned from his experiences since Season 1, what has been instilled in him since Season 1.
Brotherhood, companions, trust, the real fight is in the north, they're fighting to save everyone.

Now compare that to the educations Arya and Sansa received during their times in King's Landing and their travels.
Death, tragedy, torture, cynicism, betrayal, backstabbing, political maneuvering, deceit, the only way to survive is to be emotionally detached and use others as pawns

Is it no wonder that the women have become ruthless and hardened, while Jon is the still-naive, fight-the-good-fight guy?
 
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