Gordon Shumway
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Germany: Crowds cheer the burning of refugee shelter
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Gnome Scat
Member
That's fucked up.
allright, I am going to offer a reason (not justification)
Germany has let in a million refugees, all because of their birth rate forecast, but you can not expect a million people to suddenly be accepted, and dare I say it a lot of these migrants are very ungrateful
see here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35617232
if you look on you tube there are lots and lots on recorded instances for 'migrants' acting very bad. Then you had the sex attacks on New Years eve carried out by reported migrants... you can not expect this type of mass immigration to go smoothly
Germany has let in a million refugees, all because of their birth rate forecast, but you can not expect a million people to suddenly be accepted, and dare I say it a lot of these migrants are very ungrateful
see here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35617232
if you look on you tube there are lots and lots on recorded instances for 'migrants' acting very bad. Then you had the sex attacks on New Years eve carried out by reported migrants... you can not expect this type of mass immigration to go smoothly
Gemüsepizza
Member
Well, the police banned 3 people from the site where this happened. It seems to have been a small "crowd".
And don't forget, while there are such people in Germany, they are still a minority. This is not acceptable behaviour in Germany.
The Muslim population is definitely below 1% here in Ireland. Anyway Its sickening to read stuff like this. Politicians have really made a mess of this issue.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
By non correct, I assume you're talking about the ones everybody fears. Like the ones from cologne? The attacks and sexual assaults.
We cannot screen for them. We don't know who causes trouble, and we don't understand the full extend of who are influenced of PTSD and mental disturbances, who are bent up on sexually frustrations and unable to handle western cultures. There is a lot of theories and blaming and trying to shoehorn everyone, but we don't even know who are migrants, who are refugees and what not.
First of all, I believe nobody should take more refugees than they can handle. I think the EU should send a very large sum of resources, money, staff and volunteers to the Syrian border countries and assist in humane refugee camps.
For identification, for people to find their families and to go through proper channels, so they are in the system, on record.
I think going to a new country as a refugee you should not just be given 500 euro and left to your own devices. You need to understand the law. If you live in a culture where women are covered from head to toe, and suddenly you're seeing skimpy western women being drunk, maybe the culture shock is beyond what you and I can understand. To tell you the truth, I don't understand all the psychological and cultural ramifications.
In my country, the right has engaged in a refugee policy like this: keep them in camps, make them unable to work, to deterrent them from wanting to stay. I think that is a bad form. The reality is that these syrian refugees are not going home- so are we going to make them independent ghetto victims, or are we going to accept them and put them into society?
When you put someone in a refugee camp and tell them not to learn the language, educate themselfs or be able to work it helps nobody, and the inaction with days, months and years slaving by, by just waiting for the war in your country to end can have massive mental turmoil.
What is more, we have a refugees who are educated- people with legit degrees who are unable to work in their profession because their degrees are not legit in their new country. and thus highly educated people are reduced to being taxi drivers and grocery store assistants and kiosk clerks.
I think putting people to work and educating them is important. language classes, school for children should be mandatory. I think that after people have found their families, the next important thing is trying to get a life established. to avoid ghettos, people should be assimilated into all areas of a country to avoid ghetto neighbourhoods.
people should be offered jobs when made available, if they are healthy and able to receive government assistance. I think giving back is healthy for their mental well being, and it is good for the locals who feel that their hospitality is being rewarded. I also think that by actively being in a culture you learn to navigate in it, as opposed from behind a fence, in a camp, in the middle of nowhere.
I think refugees need to adhere and understand the law, and need to be screened for PTSD and other health issues. they need to understand and follow the customs and they need to understand the severity and consequences of not following them. They need to speak someone who knows their language and can communicate with them in a way so they dont have questions, and they need to know that there is a path towards citizenship, and/or being united with their families.
I think we have to think more of it as a win-win, instead of seeing refugees as a sick puppy that will cost us a lot of money and weaken our social welfare and support system. That means taking responsibility (not taking more than we can chew) but also having expectations of them.
I think for people who are educated, there needs to be a program in place that allows them to take their expertise and somehow get into a government assisted intern program in that profession in their new countries- after they have become sufficient at the language, and maybe have taken additional cources or education to keep practicing their degree in their new country. I think that is very important.
It blows my mind, how many well educated people I've met who drive a cab or worse!
Yes, when I start speaking they understand that I've been here for a while already, but they all end up surprised when I say that I've been born in Germany, wich is something I find amusing at least ^^
As for your question with the black population, I found that graph with stats from 2010, but I think that'll help
What's interesting is that the white area in the West is actually where all those negative headlines in the last few days come from. It's an area that has been "more white" than the rest of Germany, and now it's being filled with refugees. That's probably one of the factors why it's getting so extreme there.
Oh wow, I had that "N***erhead" discussion just yesterday. For some reason people really want to use this word.
Tbh I don't know anyone who *doesn't* call it Mohrenkopf. "Negerkuss" is out of use as far as I can tell, but no one calls it "Schaumküsse" either. It's Dickmann or Mohrekopf.
Hmm, maybe it's because of my presence that people remember the old name and that they are not supposed to use it anymore, hence why they always complain.
That would explain why to me it feels like everyone wants to continue to use that name at least.
The migrant wave hasn't even started yet in earnest. Projections over the next 5-10 years have the numbers anywhere between 5-20 million. A tenth of the possible Syrian and Iraqi immigrants have reached Europe. Not to mention the Afghans, North African and sub-Saharan economic migrants.
It's going to get way, way, worst, before it gets better and the only way for it to get better is to have strict integration policies, strict border controls, better cooperation between EU states and turning away economic migrants that are coming into Europe. Refugees from Syria should have the right of way here.
It's going to get way, way, worst, before it gets better and the only way for it to get better is to have strict integration policies, strict border controls, better cooperation between EU states and turning away economic migrants that are coming into Europe. Refugees from Syria should have the right of way here.
Gemüsepizza
Member
5-20 million additional refugees? Bullshit. This is just the typical fearmongering from right-wing extremists.
I can't see a happy ending to this.
As should people from Iraq and Afghanistan, two other countries the West fucked up. And there's even a case for Pakistan, a country completely in shambles thanks to recent Western intervention.
You can't just generalize stuff mostly done by the US to "The West".
ClosingADoor
Member
Where did you get those numbers? 20 million seems a bit much. That's basically moving a decently sized country. Long before that point Europe will close off and pay other states to take people if they have to.
The "West" is a bit of a broad term here. Most of Europe did not participate or support the Iraq war. And that's about 250 million people you are talking about if you include Pakistan. Emptying countries and moving people is not a solution to the problems they have there at the moment.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
ah yes, those countries were utopian societies unaffected by war until the mean "West" showed up
That is so weird to me. And when you said white area in the west, I assume you meant east. Is that area in the east also where most of the migrants are headed? It has Berlin in it.
I'm moving to the area where it seems more diverse, but when I visited, I didn't see a single person who wasn't white. Growing up in the UK, schools are incredibly diverse, I didn't even know racism was an actual thing until I went to university and saw that suddenly classes went from a pretty even mix of ethnicities in high school to like 90% white in undergrad (to 99.9% white in post-grad).
So when it comes to "N***erhead" would I be thought weird if I was appalled if I head someone say that? I'm certainly not going to say something like that just to fit in...are there any other weird racist words/sayings Germans think nothing of?
Iraq invasion had support from several countries in the West, Afghanistan is/was a NATO mission. Pakistan is directly related to the West fucking up Afghanistan (and several other factors obviously, but Afghanistan played a big role).
Categorizing refugees from these countries as 'economic migrants' is as big as a broad strokes as me blaming 'the West' for all of this.
I'm not saying this is a blank slate for bringing all refugees over, but I think that in a large way the West reaped what it sowed sadly enough.
ClosingADoor
Member
From memory, states supporting the Iraq war were the US, UK, Poland and the Netherlands. Hardly a majority of Western countries, and two of which have a geographic position to just ignore the whole refugee crisis (and certainly the US is taking almost nobody in). Germany and Sweden were against it, but are taking in most people now in Europe.
Economic migrants is mostly used for people from Northern Africa, not Afghans and Iraqis. Pakistan is just too large to really deal with if you want to classify people from there as refugees. How will that even go with 160 million people.
From Wikipedia:
Afghanistan was already terrible. Not sure if the intervention made things better or worse, but you can't just blame the state of that country on NATO etc. Refugees from southern Iraq, Baghdad etc, can pretty reasonably be called economic migrants. Thousands of them have voluntarily left my country already, after being disappointed with the reality of living here. Would a refugee fleeing war go back voluntarily?
I won't believe it unless you have a link to back that up.
I wasn't expecting that, well done.
lightchris
Member
Yes. To prevent misunderstanding: The chart shows the percentage of immigrants, not black people (the distribution of blacks is probably similar, but the numbers are much lower). One reason why there aren't a lot of black people in Germany compared to the UK or France is because Germany hadn't been as active in terms of colonization.
Not really, no. Most get into the country at the bavarian/austrian border in the southeast and will either stay in bavaria or be distributed to other states, but not predomenantly to the east.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
That is fucked up. I'm so sorry to hear that.
Oof
Now we only need a Holocaust defense force, I guess. "Something something hey Dr. Mengele's experiments really helped science you guys", maybe.
SporeCrawler
Member
no germany has taken in refugees because of humanitarian reasons. yes of course some of them will stay and some of those will get jobs and pay for social security down the line. but everybody knows that this will not be true for the next 5 to 10 years or so. so saying that germany took in those refugees because of birth rate issues is plain cynic.
SporeCrawler
Member
it just shows how oblivious people are with racism in germany. i bet if we would start calling baguettes "french guys penis" or something like that people would be instantly appalled. in regard to "N***erhead" people usually complain that its ridiculous to stop using that word. of course none of those people are black or presumably have asked blacks how they feel.
We recently changed from using "Clara Cell" to "Club Cell" at work. I was immediately sceptical of the change thinking "Oh it couldn't have been that bad! It was an important discovery."
I read up on it. Fuck that guy. What they did was sickening. We should forget their names as fast as possible.
Why do you think we are less racist to the french? The frogeaters are generally our favourite victim for racist remarks. But in all seriousness, we have some issues and we're currently proud enough that people stopped throwing bananas at afrogerman football players.
I mean, we have currently stories like this company not seeing anything wrong with their logo. "Neger" means "Negro" btw. It's his name, so no issue with that in and off itself, but the logo makes it really terrible.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
It would be great if the US and Canada would actually help.
So far the numbers they have taken in or promised to take in in the future are a symbolic act at best.
And the ones they take in are carefully vetted, unlike in Europe where people just pour in.
In Sweden there are now 15 refugees per 1000 inhabitants.
The same rate in Canada would mean taking in 525.000 refugees.
In the US it would mean taking in 4.8 mil refugees.
And thats just what Sweden took in so far. Its not like the stream of refugees is coming to an end.
I complain about the way Europe is handling this all the the time(people like ClosingADoor know
) and I'm the first to be outraged when right wing extremism shows its teeth in europe. I've been bitching about the right wing in the EU and especially Switzerland years ago, people always told me thats not a serious problem or that its just innocent nationalism and not xenophobia, and now refugee shelters are burning and straight up nazis gain seat after seat in parliaments all across europe, in Germany the right wing is actually still very insignificant compared to many of its neighbors.BUT I really don't like it when I read condescending comments from people from across the pond about Europe and its problems and this rise of racism and xenophobia, as if this were any different in the US or Canada.
But there is the convenient geographic barrier thats allowing north america to avoid taking on responsibility.
yanipheonu
Member
Humans thinking of other humans as less than themselves seems pretty foolish from the outside looking in.
Oh well. So long as people think they're all superior and shit.
Oh well. So long as people think they're all superior and shit.
this shits really getting out of hand. yesterday ive encountered racism outside of the web for the first time ... some old lady in the bus was yelling stuff like "if those people werent let in droves we could actually get seats in the bus"
people didnt take it lightly though someone even called her a whore lol
people didnt take it lightly though someone even called her a whore lol
http://www.bild.de/politik/inland/d...lle-ist-bei-uns-angekommen-44081514.bild.html
During a interview with the bild, development minister Gerd Mueller has said 8-10 Million are still on their way and only a tenth of the possible refugees coming from Iraq and Syria have come.
The extra 10 million is a conservative estimate of economic migrants from other countries. It's not far fetched when over the last year, over half of the migrants did not come from Syria/Iraq and hence are deemed economic migrants.
My German is decent, but any native German speakers can verify the story if they want.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Especially in bavaria people are obsessed with the word "ne**er".
Bavarian Minister of Justice called a black entertainer "wunderbarer ne**er"("delightful negro")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86dRCnhH6C0
Then he goes on to mention the black football players of FC Bayern as positive examples. He is acting as if black people are only acceptable if they provide germans with entertainment and are a delight for germans.
Truly disgusting stuff, but people just laughed. Even the indian guy didn't seem particulary put off by it.
There was a similar(similar to "N**erheads") case with "Zigeunersauce"("Gypsy sauce", I think "gypsy" has similar negative connotations as "Zigeuner"), its a BBQ sauce and there is literally no reason for it to be called "Zigeunersauce", yet some people where outraged when it was changed.
I think its because people have used these words for their whole lifes and now someone tells them that these words are bad, which means that they did something bad for their whole life, so instead of accepting that and changing their behavior they rather dispute it.
The same defense mechanism is the reason why so many people hate vegans btw.
To 1930s Germany more like.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Come on, that's the ONLY unit 731 defense on gaf. There's no pattern there when it's 1 person.
Thought avatar shaming was bannable now.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Bedameister is refering to 1992 because this happened in 1992:
From August 22 to August 24, 1992 violent xenophobic riots took place in the Lichtenhagen district of Rostock, Germany; these were the worst mob attacks against migrants in postwar Germany. Even though stones and petrol bombs were thrown at an apartment block where asylum seekers lived, no one was killed. At the height of the riots, several hundred militant right-wing extremists were involved, and about 3,000 neighbourhood onlookers stood by, applauding them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostock-Lichtenhagen_riots
Germany took in half a million refugees in 1992, the situation back then was similar.
Same fearmongering, same everything.
Edit:
People in germany always act surprised when there is a sudden outburts of xenophobia. I don't think this is surprising at all.
This is a funny(scary) clip from carneval 1973.
A german comedian does his usual spiel to get the audience engaged.
He is saying a few quick words, audience responds. Along the lines, he: "Hip, hip!", audience: "hurray!", he does this a few times and then he quickly throws in a "Sieg" and the audience, without even thinking about it responds with "Heil", followed by an awkward pause.
Its the first 15 seconds of this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_SwFHtgJCQ
AcademicSaucer
Member
Dude, the turkish immigrants arrived what? 50 years ago? have they integrated? Germany cant integrate shit. not even parts of eastern germany.
Orthogonal
Member
Integration is very difficult to achieve with very different cultures.
Look at the situaion in reverse. If you migrated to a place like Syria or Saudi Arabia, how likely do you think you would integrate?
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Did I claim it was a pattern? Am I on TV right now??
Not sure? A quick PM to a mod should answer all your questions. Gawd speed, sir!
Skellig Gra
Member
That is pretty fucking awful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdSsJQ-fvOU
Meetings like this don't help matters either. Germans are worried and their politicians aren't helping sedate fears.
The talking points from the politicians with authority and power basically boils down to "deal with it", as they drive back to their gated communities, far away from any migrants and or migrant centers.
Meetings like this don't help matters either. Germans are worried and their politicians aren't helping sedate fears.
The talking points from the politicians with authority and power basically boils down to "deal with it", as they drive back to their gated communities, far away from any migrants and or migrant centers.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Okay Germany, you can stop now.
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