Support NeoGAF

[SwolBro]

Its not about aim assist. The issue is with aim acceleration when moving the reticle diagonally along with different acceleration rates (as opposed to being the same all the time).

so, what exactly is the problem here? that the input rates are off? that it's different? because i'm looking this stuff up for other games and it looks like most shooters have different values for xyz. each shooter has their own specific deadzone, and acceleration cruves.

 

[Future PhaZe]

i dont really understand why pros are so critical of magnetism--there were loads of that in halo 2 which was the peak of halo as an e sport

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Do you guys not think that was maybe intended as Halo has always been a game about left stick strafe aiming? I'm honestly asking a question not trying to be an ass just the theory i've come to recently.

I'll just jump in here and also agree with your suggestion. Old school Halo was just as much about tracking your targets movements and "dancing" around them. It was the result of a game with a higher TTK. In games nowadays, the TTK is so low, you often just need to ADS, track, and pull trigger. There's very little movement of the left stick in an encounter.

Also, EDIT: I can't believe I'm in here defending Halo 5. I couldn't fucking stand 4, and have felt the series has done nothing but go down hill since CE and 2. That said, I gotta give credit where it's due; I think the controls are pretty dang tight on Halo 5, and a marked improvement over 4.

 

[Willectro]

Thought the aiming felt off, but wasn't sure if I wasn't used to the elite controller yet. Found myself strafing a lot while adjusting the vertical axis. Still was snapping headshots like none other in Swat.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I've only played a couple of games but found the aiming awkward. Some of it was because I was new to the game I guess, but on the other hand it really wasn't smooth like a COD for example. I found myself overshooting my target mostly. Having said that 343 had stuck me in with the Yanks and the terrible latency didn't help.

Will try more when I get an Elite controller. Hopefully they 'fix' things in the meantime!

 

[SwolBro]

i dont really understand why pros are so critical of magnetism--there were loads of that in halo 2 which was the peak of halo as an e sport

too much magnetism doesn't allow you to go from one enemy to the other very quickly, and sometimes drags your crosshairs when you don't want it to.

FPS have to walk a fine line with these controls. The best option would be to give you the ability to adjust certain parameters to your liking.

 

[RefigeKru]

No i completly get it and i'm not trying to insult anyone saying they're unaccustomed to shooters like Halo or anything... but i do believe there hasn't been a shooter like H5 for quite some time and that a lot of us are a little "out of practice". Hell, all the previous Halos even had more "forgiving" controls than H5 does.

Does your experience mirror those videos? Because mine doesn't so far... at all. I'll be doing some more digging when i'm home later for sure.

Haven't played it yet. Don't have an X1 >_>

Just a zealot when it comes to Halo sometimes. Before the game released I was hyper critical of H5 based on my H4 experience. Probably burned by Reach a bit too, but the recent good press and media is making me want the game a bit.

This just seems like something that'd frustrate me once I knew of it's effect.

And no worries man, I get emotional just thinking about Halo multiplayer sometimes - I should cool my jets before playing the game.

 

[Caja 117]

Are you saying the diagonal aiming was 1:1 with what we're seeing here even on the higher sensitivities?

It was worst in the sense it it even happened in situation to left and right. I cant talk about if they are in the same scale, but is the same problem none the less.

 

[-tetsuo-]

You seriously can't tell the difference in aiming between Destiny and Halo? Just aim down the sights at a target in both games. Destiny has subtle soft locks.

His point is that shooters already feel different while aiming, so Halo being different is not a big deal.

 

[Lothars]

Ok good info... thanks! So if you had to estimate it's equally "off" to you throughout the game in general?

Yes absolutely.

 

[nOoblet16]

Do you guys not think that was maybe intended as Halo has always been a game about left stick strafe aiming? I'm honestly asking a question not trying to be an ass just the theory i've come to recently.

Oh it is intended alright.
But why limit the controls for players who do not prefer it this way? Give them an option to play without this artificial limitation if they choose to do so...not like allowing free stick movement and no acceleration makes the game easier to play if we are to go by the claims that the pro team wanted this setup.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

I'll just jump in here and also agree with your suggestion. Old school Halo was just as much about tracking your targets movements and "dancing" around them. It was the result of a game with a higher TTK. In games nowadays, the TTK is so low, you often just need to ADS, track, and pull trigger. There's very little movement of the left stick in an encounter.

Yes... that's my thinking. If i see someone strafing to the right in front of me i dont move my right cursor full right to line up a headshot... i move my LEFT stick 90% of the way right then adjust finely with my right stick.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Yes... that's my thinking. If i see someone strafing to the right in front of me i dont move my right cursor full right to line up a headshot... i move my LEFT stick 90% of the way right then adjust finely with my right stick.

Yup. Agreed 100%.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Oh it is intended alright.
But why limit the controls for players who do not prefer it this way? Give them an option to play without this artificial limitation if they choose to do so...not like allowing free stick movement and no acceleration makes the game easier to play if we are to go by the claims that the pro team wanted this setup.

Dont you think everyone should play on the exact same aiming curves? Either they (unfortunately) change it or leave it... id hate to have one side develop an advantage in movement or aim speed as a result etc.

 

[BokehKing]

Are pros even using default Xbox controllers when making these choices for us

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

I always excelled at Halo games on the 360, but there's just something off about the Xbox One controller's sticks. My particular issue extends to other shooters on the platform. The sticks are just way too sensitive for me, and it drives me nuts. I can't wrap my mind around just slightly nudging the sticks to stay on targets. I immensely prefer the resistance that the 360 sticks had way more

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Yup. Agreed 100%.

Left stick for ~80-90% of my horizontal movements for target acquisition in firefights... Right stick for ~80-90% of my vertical movements up and down for target acquisition. Everything in between comes from combinations of both.

 

[Gestault]

Many hours into a legendary campaign and as a Plat-1 on Arena, I haven't had what I'd call aiming issues. Certain scenarios (vehicles/weapons/ability/etc) restrict or change the feel of aspects of aiming, but those have felt like balancing and immersion considerations.

This game has felt right to me, though I'm gonna read up on what others are saying. I upped my sensitivity to around 7 when I started playing.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

I always excelled at Halo games on the 360, but there's just something off about the Xbox One controller's sticks. My particular issue extends to other shooters on the platform. The sticks are just way too sensitive for me, and it drives me nuts. I can't wrap my mind around just slightly nudging the sticks to stay on targets.

It's because the sticks don't have as much resistance as the 360's. I agree.

It's funny - I hated the Dualshock 3 because of it's shit sticks. But the DS4 is a massive improvement, and is now better than the One's.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Are pros even using default Xbox controllers when making these choices for us

Watching all the vid docs and other 343i vids of the game development id say yes. I dont think i ever saw one of the pro-team members using anything but a default XBO controller.

 

[Detective]

I've just completed a wz game. Hmmm. The aiming seems fine. Actually it feels great. Simply amazing feeling when you land those shots.

Yesterday I had this amazing feeling also but it dissapeard after 3 or 4 matches. The aiming was just to fast. I couldn't fucking aim at a Ghost let alone a fellow Spartan.

I just don't get it.

 

[Future PhaZe]

It's because the sticks don't have as much resistance as the 360's. I agree.

It's funny - I hated the Dualshock 3 because of it's shit sticks. But the DS4 is a massive improvement, and is now better than the One's.

i enjoy the ds4 quite a bit for fps as well

 

[nOoblet16]

Dont you think everyone should play on the exact same aiming curves? Either they (unfortunately) change it or leave it... id hate to have one side develop an advantage in movement or aim speed as a result etc.

Why not?
If this method is suppose to be the superior way, than using any other method would only supposedly hamper a player's ability, if they want to use it then they should be able to. But if it's not superior and anyone using a free movement with no restrictions has an advantage then you have to ask yourself...why is such a limitation even in place if it is inferior?


If someone wants to play a PC multillayer using controller then they can do so despite the disadvabtage it brings about...you know it's their choice.

Beside players can choose to play at different sensitivity which depending on their play styles (long range/snipers use low to mid, rushers use high) and the XB elite controller allows for custom curve.

 

[texore]

It's because the sticks don't have as much resistance as the 360's. I agree.

It's funny - I hated the Dualshock 3 because of it's shit sticks. But the DS4 is a massive improvement, and is now better than the One's.

Pretty much. The combination of the lower height and greater resistance makes me easier to switch back to.
Hopefully they release shorter sticks for the elite controller.

 

[Goldfishking]

Yes... that's my thinking. If i see someone strafing to the right in front of me i dont move my right cursor full right to line up a headshot... i move my LEFT stick 90% of the way right then adjust finely with my right stick.

How does that work around a corner? Surely it's better to move left and aim right in terms of better aiming.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Why not?
If this method is suppose to be the superior way, than using any other method would only supposedly hamper a player's ability, but if they want to use it then they should be able to. If someone wants to play a PC multillayer using controller then they can do so despite the disadvabtage it brings about...you know it's their choice.

Beside players can choose to play at different sensitivity which depending on their play styles (long range/snipers use low to mid, rushers use high) and the XB elite controller allows for custom curve.

It's not supposed to be superior... its just the way the developers designed it to operate. If they feel like they want to go and make it operate on a 50% decrease in acceleration over all axi and by doing so it serves a purpose among their programmers and pro team... that 50% decrease makes the game more of what they intended it or wanted it to be... badass i'm down.

 

[DarkOneX]

It's always been a part of halo... It allows players to defend themselves against players using ranged weapons. And rewards players who are skilled enough to pull off precision shots w/o zoom, and/or get their kills quickly before being descope.

I figured out why you have always been bad at halo games... Because they require a lot of skill

lol whatever dude, get rekt

And seriously iron sights have been in Halo always? I thought that was just added with 5 or maybe 4?

 

[SwolBro]

It's because the sticks don't have as much resistance as the 360's. I agree.

It's funny - I hated the Dualshock 3 because of it's shit sticks. But the DS4 is a massive improvement, and is now better than the One's.

Pretty much. The combination of the lower height and greater resistance makes me easier to switch back to.
Hopefully they release shorter sticks for the elite controller.

And yet so many people including "pros" adding kontrolfreek extenders on their right sticks to make them higher.
everyone likes something different, weird right? I do hope that the elite does offer shorter sticks, but i don't think anything shorter than the defaults are possible.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

How does that work around a corner? Surely it's better to move left and aim right in terms of better aiming.

Why do you think you always see those "pros" jumping around corners I'm specifically talking about target acquisition and firefights.. yes... you will have to walk around corners and the like lol.

 

[Poohblaster]

I like the way the new aiming feels. I hope that whatever 343 does they keep this configuration as an option.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

And yet so many people including "pros" adding kontrolfreek extenders on their right sticks to make them higher.
everyone likes something different, weird right? I do hope that the elite does offer shorter sticks, but i don't think anything shorter than the defaults are possible.

Youd add those ridiculous pieces of shit to your controller as well for the checks those guys get ;P

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Read the post I quoted and then read the post he quoted. The implication was that having to "earn your kills", ie high skill curve/level, is somehow a deterrent to the community/casuals. CS is arguably the highest skill shooter right now on PC or console. People put up with it just fine and IMO has the best community of any FPS game.

And still I would argue it is not an apt comparison for the reason I pointed out. They don't add awkward design to increase the "skill cap". For example, imagine if CSGO had forced aim acceleration. That would make aiming harder. That is actually the worst way to go about increasing the skill cap in a game. And it would actually be a higher skill cap because aiming with acceleration with a mouse is simply harder.

I think having a high skill cap is fine, but the way you achieve it is immensely important.

 

[Caja 117]

And yet so many people including "pros" adding kontrolfreek extenders on their right sticks to make them higher.
everyone likes something different, weird right? I do hope that the elite does offer shorter sticks, but i don't think anything shorter than the defaults are possible.

As of now, it doesnt, just 3 set of sticks, two regular size and one lager.

 

[Goldfishking]

Why do you think you always see those "pros" jumping around corners I'm specifically talking about target acquisition and firefights.. yes... you will have to walk around corners and the like lol.

But most fights involve corners, especially with halos high ttk and strafing. I guess it's just me but it seems like you should be moving opposite to the enemy in terms of left and right to keep them in your sights.

 

[SwolBro]

Youd add those ridiculous pieces of shit to your controller as well for the checks those guys get ;P

Are you being serious? You do realize those things were popularized because people wanted them right? I have one on my right stick. The "alphas" that don't add much height, i got them because of the bigger grip they give you, my entire thumb sits on the stick without falling off. i love them.

 

[constantstatic]

I'm playing single player and I'm not seeing the slowdown like in the video. I am using the elite controller with the aggressive setting on my right stick on sensitivity 4 in game. The aiming has always felt different but I chalked that up to me not playing a ton of halo.

 

[texore]

And yet so many people including "pros" adding kontrolfreek extenders on their right sticks to make them higher.
everyone likes something different, weird right? I do hope that the elite does offer shorter sticks, but i don't think anything shorter than the defaults are possible.

That's not weird at all.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

But most fights involve corners, especially with halos high ttk and strafing. I guess it's just me but it seems like you should be moving opposite to the enemy in terms of left and right to keep them in your sights.

Yes... you can move opposite... that's strafing default... i guess to add more clarity to my previous statements... diagonal right stick movement is very, very limited in use by most Halo players because they're actively using their left analog stick horizontally to align themselves to their target as they simultaneously use their right stick to pick out the head shot chains vertically.

That make more sense?

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Are you being serious? You do realize those things were popularized because people wanted them right? I have one on my right stick. The "alphas" that don't add much height, i got them because of the bigger grip they give you, my entire thumb sits on the stick without falling off. i love them.

Yep. 100% serious. I dont believe for a second they add one bit of "control" or "freak" to any FPS. Kids these days ;P When i was your age my N64 had ONE, PLASTIC ANALOG stick! lol

 

[Trey]

Add a traditional aiming acceleration option for people who don't like the new scheme.

 

[JimiNutz]

I don't get it, the beta felt perfect for me.
Was anyone complaining about the aiming during the beta because I can't remember any complaints about it?

I also miss the headshot boost with the AR - why shouldn't you be rewarded for landing headshots?

 

[shoreu]

Which isn't saying much considering Halo 2's MP was trash, even though people seem to be wearing rose-colored glasses regarding that now. I wish there was an archive of the Bungie.net forums for the first year to remind people how much everyone almost unanimously hated it.

What's your favorite halo?

 

[Spasm]

Yep. 100% serious. I dont believe for a second they add one bit of "control" or "freak" to any FPS. Kids these days ;P When i was your age my N64 had ONE, PLASTIC ANALOG stick! lol

Longer sticks will make your thumb travel a longer distance for the same amount of game input, giving you more precise control over fine adjustments. Ironically, this would be a detriment to Halo 5, as it no longer rewards subtle inputs.

 

[SwolBro]

That's not weird at all.

I know.

Yep. 100% serious. I dont believe for a second they add one bit of "control" or "freak" to any FPS. Kids these days ;P When i was your age my N64 had ONE, PLASTIC ANALOG stick! lol

So, you believe there is no improvement that can be had from having a bigger circumference? I'm completely delusional here? When you were my age? Wtf, i'm in my 30s. Chill out.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

The beta had perfect aiming. I doubt they intentionally did it.

This.

The acceleration and magnetism is so weird now. Do i really need to put it up to 8 to compensate strafe/aim? Ugh.

Feel like i can slowly move the retical on their head and once i move in the opposite direction due to strafing it throws it and it goes from really smooth to super quick and i aim all over the place like a big noob!

 

[Wereroku]

I don't get it, the beta felt perfect for me.
Was anyone complaining about the aiming during the beta because I can't remember any complaints about it?

I also miss the headshot boost with the AR - why shouldn't you be rewarded for landing headshots?

Apparently their pros were. The quote says they felt long range was too squirrely so they tuned it down.

 

[SwolBro]

This.

The acceleration and magnetism is so weird now. Do i really need to put it up to 8 to compensate strafe/aim? Ugh.

i don't know if this will help you but from most of the really good Halo players, former "pros" i've asked recently they mainly have sensitivity at 4 for Halo 5.

halo isn't that twitchy, turn around speeds and look speeds aren't as important.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Longer sticks will make your thumb travel a longer distance for the same amount of game input, giving you more precise control over fine adjustments. Ironically, this would be a detriment to Halo 5, as it no longer rewards subtle inputs.

Yes, that's a well known fact. The analog extension debate has raged for years and i dont wish to bring it up here. If you do care to take the conversation further i'd be happy to in another thread

I know.



So, you believe there is no improvement that can be had from having a bigger circumference? I'm completely delusional here? When you were my age? Wtf, i'm in my 30s. Chill out.

See my response above to Spasm... we could go on for ages on the topic.

Sorry, didn't mean to enrage you there... only chilling necessary seems to be on your side. Mid 30's as well... we're old men are we not

 

[BokehKing]

i don't know if this will help you but from most of the really good Halo players, former "pros" i've asked recently they mainly have sensitivity at 4 for Halo 5.

halo isn't that twitchy, turn around speeds and look speeds aren't as important.

If you're getting shot in the back, how can turn around speeds not be important

 

[DJ Gunner]

If you're getting shot in the back, how can turn around speeds not be important

Because at high level play if you're getting shot in the back it's because either you or your teammates have failed at map control, and your only hope is to escape. You will not turn around and outshoot them at that caliber of play.