Support NeoGAF

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I already switched to all digital except Switch.

I think the only thing consumers should be focused on is legislation protecting digital ownership rights and requiring digital keys be sold at multiple stores. That's the core battle of the next decade for console owners.

Physical will likely be gone for both systems next gen, or offered as a disc drive add-on only for boutique items like Limited Run Games, which will be the equivalent of collectible records for the music industry. Good luck in your fight.

I think you’re mostly right.

I also think that people overestimate Nintendo’s apparent reluctance in joining the all-digital future.
The recent Switch flash card, if anything, brings to light a lot of issues related to the supposed ownership of physical games. If your physical copy of a game has a unique ID attached to it and this gets copied with the game’s image file… good luck using the original and the copy at the same time. If this is how the system works and those cards get widespread, it would spell doom for the used carts market. Which, incidentally, is something Nintendo was never happy about ever since the Famicom days, with rental of games being illegal in Japan iirc. The very same Famicom even introduced rewritable discs, showing that for Nintendo, the software was already more important than its physical support almost 40 years ago.

Apart from this, Nintendo probably isn’t ready to free shelf space because it gives them a lot of visibility. Visibility is key if many of your products are aimed at a younger audience and you also have a lot of official merchandise to sell. But stuff like Super Mario 35 and the 3D All-Stars collection are a very clear indicator that Nintendo is just being a bit more subtle in pushing its users towards digital, and a world where you don’t own your games.

MS was the first to push heavily for all-digital and that’s why they’re doubling down on it now that their shelf presence for software is rapidly approaching zero. The Xbox shelf in Italian electronic stores has been a fifth of Nintendo‘s and a tenth of Playstation’s for some years, and it’s very close to non-existent at this point. But you’d have to be a complete fool to think Sony and Nintendo aren’t going to make that jump the minute they feel it’s completely safe to do so. I suspect the utter silence about the Switch’s successor has a lot to do with the news it will bring about digital games and their online services.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I think you’re mostly right.

I also think that people overestimate Nintendo’s apparent reluctance in joining the all-digital future.
The recent Switch flash card, if anything, brings to light a lot of issues related to the supposed ownership of physical games. If your physical copy of a game has a unique ID attached to it and this gets copied with the game’s image file… good luck using the original and the copy at the same time. If this is how the system works and those cards get widespread, it would spell doom for the used carts market. Which, incidentally, is something Nintendo was never happy about ever since the Famicom days, with rental of games being illegal in Japan iirc. The very same Famicom even introduced rewritable discs, showing that for Nintendo, the software was already more important than its physical support almost 40 years ago.

Apart from this, Nintendo probably isn’t ready to free shelf space because it gives them a lot of visibility. Visibility is key if many of your products are aimed at a younger audience and you also have a lot of official merchandise to sell. But stuff like Super Mario 35 and the 3D All-Stars collection are a very clear indicator that Nintendo is just being a bit more subtle in pushing its users towards digital, and a world where you don’t own your games.

MS was the first to push heavily for all-digital and that’s why they’re doubling down on it now that their shelf presence for software is rapidly approaching zero. The Xbox shelf in Italian electronic stores has been a fifth of Nintendo‘s and a tenth of Playstation’s for some years, and it’s very close to non-existent at this point. But you’d have to be a complete fool to think Sony and Nintendo aren’t going to make that jump the minute they feel it’s completely safe to do so. I suspect the utter silence about the Switch’s successor has a lot to do with the news it will bring about digital games and their online services.

You say all that, but ignoring the blatant issue that Xbox isn't going all digital because it benefits them; it is because they have given up the physical market entirely.

You can talk about the future all you like, you would be lucky to see Xbox in that future. If Xbox was leading the market they wouldn't have done this, they would have had customers they could lose. But as it were it is now negligible for them because of their sales numbers.

One brick and mortar electronics store in my country went bankrupt and became online-only. No one said this was somehow them being ahead of the curve, they merely failed to make money and lost their physical stores. They always had online shop fronts, they lost their buildings because they suck.

 

[StereoVsn]

Whole lot of crying about nothing. Physical games are down to less than 10% and shrinking every year. This is happening if you like it or not. Welcome to 2024, don't blame Microsoft, blame consumers for thier preference of media.

This is a false narrative. The Insomniac data spill showed that for new large games, Sony is selling over 50% physical.

The 10% numbers are counting back catalog (went out of production), all digital titles, MTX and in some instances hardware.

Again, new normal games are over 50% physical for Sony. Nintendo is even higher. So the narrative about 10% for games is bullshit.

What is also bullshit is the narrative about all games being unplayable from disk and requiring downloads. Vast majority of games on Sony and Nintendo side are playable and don’t require it.

MS sucked with this due to their distribution of Xbox One code for cross gen games with their Play Anywhere endeavor.

So yeah, as usual people are doing SonyToo and even NintendoToo when the evidence is to the contrary.

Will physical go away at some point? Probably yes. Will at least next gen still have physical for Sony and Nintendo? Yes they will.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

Isn't it something like 70% of all consoles sold thus far are Series S?

Coupled with Gamepass (a rental service) they practically paved the way for this outcome.

Also, I mean. Most and if not all, gamers really use to it. I mean pc been that way for along time.

 

[onQ123]

A few days ago

Walmart to start removing physical Xbox games in store starting with Starfield.

Goddamn, I forgot about the luggage trick. Hah. People actually used to do that! I remember one time, I personally hid something in self-build furniture aisle. I don’t recall what. Back in the 80's I had a friend that would go to toys r us and take pull tickets for games he wanted but couldn't...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Punished Miku]

I think you’re mostly right.

I also think that people overestimate Nintendo’s apparent reluctance in joining the all-digital future.
The recent Switch flash card, if anything, brings to light a lot of issues related to the supposed ownership of physical games. If your physical copy of a game has a unique ID attached to it and this gets copied with the game’s image file… good luck using the original and the copy at the same time. If this is how the system works and those cards get widespread, it would spell doom for the used carts market. Which, incidentally, is something Nintendo was never happy about ever since the Famicom days, with rental of games being illegal in Japan iirc. The very same Famicom even introduced rewritable discs, showing that for Nintendo, the software was already more important than its physical support almost 40 years ago.

Apart from this, Nintendo probably isn’t ready to free shelf space because it gives them a lot of visibility. Visibility is key if many of your products are aimed at a younger audience and you also have a lot of official merchandise to sell. But stuff like Super Mario 35 and the 3D All-Stars collection are a very clear indicator that Nintendo is just being a bit more subtle in pushing its users towards digital, and a world where you don’t own your games.

MS was the first to push heavily for all-digital and that’s why they’re doubling down on it now that their shelf presence for software is rapidly approaching zero. The Xbox shelf in Italian electronic stores has been a fifth of Nintendo‘s and a tenth of Playstation’s for some years, and it’s very close to non-existent at this point. But you’d have to be a complete fool to think Sony and Nintendo aren’t going to make that jump the minute they feel it’s completely safe to do so. I suspect the utter silence about the Switch’s successor has a lot to do with the news it will bring about digital games and their online services.

Yeah, I think you're right. My main reason for predicting Nintendo will be last to fully jump over is just because they don't have as much storage space on a switch and if they're doing PS4 level games it's going to fill up pretty quick. Some people have made points about the Japanese market so I'll take them at their word on that, since I don't know what their preferences really are.

Personally, I don't see lack of visibility ever being a problem at retail. They're still going to carry all the systems even if they're digital. If they decide to set up a rack with cards for the games and codes also, it would honestly be even more visible. People could walk up and look at the cards without having to get into a locked case and waiting for the employee for 10 min to get to it with the keys. Every black Friday, they still put up major ads for the systems when they get their first discounts because it's free traffic for the store. I don't think it will decrease their visibility. They can put a plastic Nintendo / Sony / Xbox banner over the systems that are locked up, and the controllers and headsets.

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

MS going the Sega way. Im sure that the Series X refresh will bomb like nothing else.

 

[Dane]

In my experience with selling used (and a bit of new games) in Brazil: Xbox One digital ratio is so big that most stores will only carry a small inventory, most people are into Store discounts as the prices tend to be lower than PS Store, Gamepass and Eneba, people will only look for physical if its cheaper than their digital options. Production of physical media ended here in December 2022 with One Piece Odyssey being the final release. Another issue is that the 2013-2016 discs are infamous for getting disk rot because the manufacturer was no longer Sony DADC but a company called Sonopress that had a low quality Blu Ray spec with less layers of protection, the discsrheat inside the console even when not played and the burn marks start to happen.

Xbox has been going with digital route not only since Live, but also years later with full disc based games with Games on Demand in 2009, Ubisoft even reported as early as 2015 the digital ratio share was 25% bigger on Xbox than Playstation, so its natural to be the first one to reach the massive majority into digital.

But even for PS4 and PS5 games ever since this new generation launc had a much tighter supply, no one seems to be willing to order quantities if the games will devaluate too quickly (Cyberpunk intensifies), Sony games are famous for being mass devaualated at 70-80% from its launch MSRP in 1.5 - 2 years have been tigher into the 30-50% except for Horizon Forbidden West, Assassins Creed also used to be much cheaper a year and half later and Valhalla was barely printed, its far cheaper to buy digital than a used copy.

 

[Ar¢tos]

.

This is a false narrative. The Insomniac data spill showed that for new large games, Sony is selling over 50% physical.

The 10% numbers are counting back catalog (went out of production), all digital titles, MTX and in some instances hardware.

Again, new normal games are over 50% physical for Sony. Nintendo is even higher. So the narrative about 10% for games is bullshit.

What is also bullshit is the narrative about all games being unplayable from disk and requiring downloads. Vast majority of games on Sony and Nintendo side are playable and don’t require it.

MS sucked with this due to their distribution of Xbox One code for cross gen games with their Play Anywhere endeavor.

So yeah, as usual people are doing SonyToo and even NintendoToo when the evidence is to the contrary.

Will physical go away at some point? Probably yes. Will at least next gen still have physical for Sony and Nintendo? Yes they will.

It's a new update to the canonical texts of Xbox, gospel of Phil, 23:34, via the holy church of Discord :

"Henceforth, all apostles must undermine and undervalue physical games, because digital is the way to spiritual salvation, Amen"

 

[Panajev2001a]

Isn't it something like 70% of all consoles sold thus far are Series S?

Coupled with Gamepass (a rental service) they practically paved the way for this outcome.

Gotcha so MS’s problem becomes again the “industry’ problem” in your mind? .

 

[Quezacolt]

I'd like to thabk Microsoft for this. Now i'll never need to give them my money ever again.
I had given up on the xbox, but a small part of me had hopes that maybe they could get back to how they were during their first 2 gens.

 

[BlackTron]

Sentiment, usually shared by urban dwellers in 1st world countries. We're way farther from the digital future than hardcore bubble is thinking, it's just MS trying to force adorably digital future from the couch of a distant third.

Internet connection, even in fairly rich parts of the world is patchy, limited and wonky. The market is filled with datacaps, slow tech like xDSL and plain old infrastructure. Biggest potential new markets like India, South Asia and South America are not basking in fast and cheap fiber either and wireless has it's set of problems with ping, traffic cost ant coverage too, so 5G won't be a magic panacea.

And even if we ignore the bandiwth woes that would take a solid few decades to resolve, there's the matter of simple convenience. Physical can be traded, can be shared with a friend, can be saved for later if the game is delisted.

Xbox is throwing out literally huge international markets to force already stalled GP and digital-only onto a few million Americans that stuck with the platform.

This is the actual truth but people really think we're on the precipice of the big shift just because Xbox shit the bed

 

[NickFire]

Has MS confirmed they are dropping discs? Could they just be outsourcing it to someone If they really dropped the relevant department(s)?

I know the signs point this way. But man, if they have been selling Series X to people knowing they are dropping discs and not disclosing that, well, that is a really scummy thing to do. Probably not a new low for them, but still bad.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

Has MS confirmed they are dropping discs? Could they just be outsourcing it to someone If they really dropped the relevant department(s)?

I know the signs point this way. But man, if they have been selling Series X to people knowing they are dropping discs and not disclosing that, well, that is a really scummy thing to do. Probably not a new low for them, but still bad.

So take an even smaller cut per disc sold?

 

[graywolf323]

I think our friend @DarkMage619 got laid off too, haven't seen him do damage control lately.

someone has to be managing all these alts that keep popping up and he‘s been active providing reactions to all of them too

 

[DaGwaphics]

You say all that, but ignoring the blatant issue that Xbox isn't going all digital because it benefits them; it is because they have given up the physical market entirely.

The end there kind of defies the point you were trying to make. MS made the decision on the ratios of consoles to release this generation (in terms of all digital XSS and with drive XSX), choosing to allow such a high percentage of users to not have a drive. They chose to weaken their physical software sales at retail, there was almost certainly some kind of benefit to it on paper when they decided to go this way. Now sure, companies make mistakes and things don't always go to plan, but it's rare for companies to intentionally hurt their bottom lines. If this transition happens for them, it seems like something that has been in the works for a while with some kind of paper upside to them.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

This is a false narrative. The Insomniac data spill showed that for new large games, Sony is selling over 50% physical.

The 10% numbers are counting back catalog (went out of production), all digital titles, MTX and in some instances hardware.

Again, new normal games are over 50% physical for Sony. Nintendo is even higher. So the narrative about 10% for games is bullshit.

What is also bullshit is the narrative about all games being unplayable from disk and requiring downloads. Vast majority of games on Sony and Nintendo side are playable and don’t require it.

MS sucked with this due to their distribution of Xbox One code for cross gen games with their Play Anywhere endeavor.

So yeah, as usual people are doing SonyToo and even NintendoToo when the evidence is to the contrary.

Will physical go away at some point? Probably yes. Will at least next gen still have physical for Sony and Nintendo? Yes they will.

If Sony keeps physical next gen they definitely wanna keep that under wraps until Xbox is too commited to reverse. Then release "How to share games on PS6" to drive the final nail in the coffin. Shame we don't have live shows anymore and it's all pre-recorded segments.

 

[Gambit2483]

Gotcha so MS’s problem becomes again the “industry’ problem” in your mind? .

Huh? My comment was directed solely at MS, their actions and their future outcome....not the industry as a whole.

Sorry if that wasn't clear

 

[StereoVsn]

If Sony keeps physical next gen they definitely wanna keep that under wraps until Xbox is too commited to reverse. Then release "How to share games on PS6" to drive the final nail in the coffin. Shame we don't have live shows anymore and it's all pre-recorded segments.

Nah, there is basically no need to put the nail in that Xbox coffin. They should communicate this clearly to customers instead.

MS is done with physical basically. And yeah Sony certainly can take advantage of that in their marketing.

 

[jroc74]

"Sony pushing for the all digital future with the new PS5!!! You have to activate the disc drive!! Wtf!!" "Hardware DRM!!"

MS: Hold my beer.

 

[soulbait]

I do not know the last time I bought a disc, but I still do not like the removal of the option.

However, I am sure Microsoft's numbers show that it will not impact them much to remove the disc drive. I know this will eventually happen to all consoles, as it has happened to PCs, but it still is odd.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Nah, there is basically no need to put the nail in that Xbox coffin. They should communicate this clearly to customers instead.

MS is done with physical basically. And yeah Sony certainly can take advantage of that in their marketing.

Adorably Digital vs. Dazzling Discs.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I do not know the last time I bought a disc, but I still do not like the removal of the option.

However, I am sure Microsoft's numbers show that it will not impact them much to remove the disc drive. I know this will eventually happen to all consoles, as it has happened to PCs, but it still is odd.

Well, since we see that they sell like 2% of all physical sales per game in the UK (their second strongest market), split by platform, you kinda have a point.

Thing is, that it's because their consoles are barely selling and their focus is on GP.

 

[NickFire]

So take an even smaller cut per disc sold?

No idea if they would make more or less by outsourcing that type of work. Also don't care a single bit how much the discs cost them. They sold people consoles with disc drives. They should support those disc drives until end of generation in my opinion.

 

[THE DUCK]

Premium consoles are higher margin machines you muppet. It's not competing against yourself

Running two software lines for no reason is there beeker. And no, most machines when they launch lose money, it's not like the pro machines were $400 more, the ps4 pro was only $100 more than ps4.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

For clarity (if not already posted)

 

[THE DUCK]

This is a false narrative. The Insomniac data spill showed that for new large games, Sony is selling over 50% physical.

The 10% numbers are counting back catalog (went out of production), all digital titles, MTX and in some instances hardware.

Again, new normal games are over 50% physical for Sony. Nintendo is even higher. So the narrative about 10% for games is bullshit.

What is also bullshit is the narrative about all games being unplayable from disk and requiring downloads. Vast majority of games on Sony and Nintendo side are playable and don’t require it.

MS sucked with this due to their distribution of Xbox One code for cross gen games with their Play Anywhere endeavor.

So yeah, as usual people are doing SonyToo and even NintendoToo when the evidence is to the contrary.

Will physical go away at some point? Probably yes. Will at least next gen still have physical for Sony and Nintendo? Yes they will.

So your going with leaked unconfirmed stats that don't seem to jive with anything else?
What world do you live in that 1 out 2 people in 2024 are buying physical discs? Certainly not what I see, nor would walmart be even remotely considering taking out xbox games then.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Running two software lines for no reason is there beeker. And no, most machines when they launch lose money, it's not like the pro machines were $400 more, the ps4 pro was only $100 more than ps4.

it was the same console with a marginally better GPU. Stop conjuring up issues

 

[Pharaoh 117]

I think selling physical copies doesn't make sense for MS anymore, unfortunately. That's what the numbers show. Sony and Nintendo will continue as long as it keeps being viable. If the gap between digital and physical keeps growing they will also stop eventually.

 

[Pop]

For clarity (if not already posted)

This is for the US market only*

Just to clarify

 

[HeWhoWalks]

This is for the US market only*

Just to clarify

No clarity needed.

It's key in this case because it is Microsoft's biggest market.

 

[BlackTron]

I do not know the last time I bought a disc, but I still do not like the removal of the option.

However, I am sure Microsoft's numbers show that it will not impact them much to remove the disc drive. I know this will eventually happen to all consoles, as it has happened to PCs, but it still is odd.

It won't impact you much to take the tires off your wheels when they've already flown off

 

[Pop]

No clarity needed.

It's key in this case because it is Microsoft's biggest market.

Ya which is even worse for them.

I suspect Nintendo and Sony physical percentage is higher when factoring in the rest of the world

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Ya which is even worse for them.

I suspect Nintendo and Sony physical percentage is higher when factoring in the rest of the world

Indeed. I'm thinking they (Xbox) will give hardware one more shot next gen, but as a digital only platform and see where the cards fall.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Personally, I don't see lack of visibility ever being a problem at retail. They're still going to carry all the systems even if they're digital. If they decide to set up a rack with cards for the games and codes also, it would honestly be even more visible. People could walk up and look at the cards without having to get into a locked case and waiting for the employee for 10 min to get to it with the keys. Every black Friday, they still put up major ads for the systems when they get their first discounts because it's free traffic for the store. I don't think it will decrease their visibility. They can put a plastic Nintendo / Sony / Xbox banner over the systems that are locked up, and the controllers and headsets.

Agreed, MS is already doing the digital cards and allows a separate retail structure to form around that (independent discounts, etc.). Xbox has not cut the retailers out of digital in the way that PS did, I don't think losing the disks will remove them from shelves. If anything it might increase the amount of games on offer since the cards for the codes are smaller than the disk boxes and you can put more of them in less space.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Digital has been the situation for pc gaming for a while now, Sony got involved with digital with the digital only psp go and kicked it off.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Digital has been the situation for pc gaming for a while now, Sony got involved with digital with the digital only psp go and kicked it off.

If dying is what the PSP Go kicked off, it worked out great!

 

[StereoVsn]

So your going with leaked unconfirmed stats that don't seem to jive with anything else?
What world do you live in that 1 out 2 people in 2024 are buying physical discs? Certainly not what I see, nor would walmart be even remotely considering taking out xbox games then.

The world with internal Sony sales information? Don’t forget this is world wide. Not everyone lives in NA or EU.

 

[Punished Miku]

Agreed, MS is already doing the digital cards and allows a separate retail structure to form around that (independent discounts, etc.). Xbox has not cut the retailers out of digital in the way that PS did, I don't think loosing the disks will remove them from shelves. If anything it might increase the amount of games on offer since the cards for the codes are smaller than the disk boxes and you can put more of them in less space.

Agreed. I saw a large card wall at Best Buy last time I went for all systems.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Agreed. I saw a large card wall at Best Buy last time I went for all systems.

Is Sony doing the digital cards as well now? Didn't know that, but I'm never in store anymore #partoftheproblemLOL.

 

[chromhound]

I guess I'll switch to team PlayStation or Nintendo

 

[Punished Miku]

Is Sony doing the digital cards as well now? Didn't know that, but I'm never in store anymore #partoftheproblemLOL.

I looked at mostly the Nintendo ones since I was shopping for a Switch game at the time. Maybe I did exaggerate and just got busted. Now I'm not sure if Sony did have them.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Can't report physical sales with no physical....

Microsoft continues to find ways to hide their data.

 

[Zuzu]

Some backwards compatible games which require the disk (like FEAR 1) will be locked out when they go digital only. Oh well I guess….

 

[TheShocker]

I haven’t bought a physical copy of a game in years. I don’t want those boxes taking up space. Also much easier to organize and work through my game catalog when I can just boot the game up.

Maybe I just don’t see the issue. Game launchers and digital ownership has existed on PC for ever.

 

[Audiophile]

Sony would be really smart to negotiate a deal with Microsoft to absorb Xbox Live and integrate it with PSN and negotiate the release of a series of Xbox controllers on PlayStation 5 and PlayStation 6.

I actually think a good percentage of this userbase will just jump to PC.

But worst case scenario they should release their own Xbox style controller to try and bring people over.

Cool idea about an Xbox controller for PlayStation. Wonder if Sony would go for it, but if they did..

Perhaps if they worked with Sony to add haptics, a touchpad and the button iconography but have the rest of the pad laid out like the current Xbox pad with dual-branding; then they just split revenue. I prefer PS controllers but for those who prefer the latter, having an official option going forward for the PS platforms would be cool.

Hopefully if things go the aforementioned route, a more collaborative approach gets prioritised. In addition, if PS Plus took a modular approach where you pick and choose what benefits you want; and among them is an Xbox Game Pass "Lite" option (limited to games that are published by or exclusive to MS/Xbox [of course, having other third party titles already coming to PS platforms would be counterintuitive for Sony]).

Also, I think Sony are still inclined to provide physical media options for full scale games and will likely do so with an optional, add-on drive in future generation/s paired with more limited disc releases as digital becomes the default... One other nice touch would be for Sony to co-publish and distribute MX/Xbox-exclusive titles on physical.

 

[Famipan]

Because you can resell physical console games. PC games are tied to "cd keys", so you can't resell.

Reselling games isn’t sustainable since developing costs are increasing and people don’t want to pay more than 50USD for a game. Having no losses from resales/lent out games and no possible customers who only buys games cheap physical games would mean Sony/MS would have to lower the digital price, otherwise they won’t sell much. (I haven’t bought a single full price PS5 game)

We are already seeing that with Alan Wake 2 and Senua 2.

 

[devilNprada]

I know for a fact Activision outsources their customer service already and have for some time; they are not internal.
It could very well be they are moving the labor from CA to India, but they do not actually work for Activision.

 

[Toons]

Once consoles go full digital I will just abandon them.

But you're still gonna buy the games. Thats what they are banking on.

Of you're willing to forgo the console entirely so long as you can still get the game via digital then why should they even bother banking on physical media sales? 90% of gamers are like you, once this goes they will happily skip consoles and just go download the game on their PC or whatever else.

 

[RyanEvans21]

Hoping sony don't follow Xbox. Physical disc, get more discount compare to digital. For Example: Diablo 4 $45 right now on amazon,Bestbuy....