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[Triggerhappytel]

I am reading the KS again and am trying to figure out where it says the developer had to listen to donor criticisms and I am coming up empty. Unless you donated enough money to be considered a producer, there is little reason for the developer to listen to you. It is his dream to make the game, not yours. He should have full artistic freedom and you don't have to enjoy that.

Yea, there tee forums and everything to talk about the game but you should never really have thought you were going to have much say in the game. And expected failure

There's no such small-print, but as an independent developer completely reliant on the backing of his prospective audience, it would be wise of him to actually treat said audience a little better rather than just shutting them out.

 

[kick51]

Redesign 3 is just gonna be straight up hentai

 

[Geedorah]

...That's simply not how any investment should work. Not only aren't they legally obligated, but it's silly to expect it. If development of a game starts for example thanks to investors but then fails, do you think they'd have the money to refund anybody? The game failed, it's lost money. If they had money to give out like that, they probably would not have asked for investors in the first place

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

edit: Feel I should clarify - I am not a backer of this project, but another failed Kickstarter for some gaming hardware. I've been trying to find a proper way to find support/legal assistance, but there are absolutely zero consumer advocacy groups I can find that are interested in KS yet.

 

[I'm an expert]

There's no such small-print, but as an independent developer completely reliant on the backing of his prospective audience, it would be wise of him to actually treat said audience a little better rather than just shutting them out.

Agreed, but the op asked for a refund when their isn't even a product. He gave his money with the information he had, but it's games, the info can change. If the guy scrapped the entire project and said I'm making tic-tac-toe, I'd want my money back. The op should probably have voiced his concern but not asked for the money back. The guy was most likely concerned it'd start an avalanche of people asking for their money back.

Though now that his actions have been exposed, I bet he wishes simply gave the $15 back lol.

I'm more interested in how KS failures deal with the financial and tax issues after.

 

[Haunted]

I love Kickstarter, but it really is just a roll of the dice.

Well, I do feel that with some good common sense and prudence, you can greatly increase your chances of it turning out well. Backing a Kickstarter isn't some sort of 50/50 dice roll every time.


Like, backing an established company with a resume of shipped games asking for the funds to finish their next game (which is already fairly far along) is really not that much of a risky bet! But backing this one guy with no prior videogame development experience, but a great idea and some concept art plucked from deviantart... yeah.

If we're coming back to the dice example, in one case you're betting on getting a 1/2/3/4/5 within ten rolls vs rolling a 6 ten times in a row.

 

[Amir0x]

*DP*

Damn neoGAF is acting fucking wonky today

 

[Amir0x]

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

Wow. That is a seriously silly requirement for an investment set up type of a site. And as we have seen from countless projects, nearly impossible to enforce anyway.

Look, I understand people want things to turn out how the creators say it should. I do. I understand the frustration people have when it doesn't, and I understand why anyone would be angry. It's natural. But what I do not understand is how anyone can go into a situation where they know they are investors in a project, and then get confused when that project either fails and they never see a return on that investment or changes from its initial vision. This happens all the time in every type of investment known to man. Is it really reasonable to expect anything would be different from a game investment site? If anything, with how volatile game development is, to me a failure percentage is likely to be very high. And we have seen many projects fail. How many of those end up repaying all their investors when it happens? And that's much worse than simply changing character designs.

Think of it this way: you have a group of people who clearly cannot afford to make a game. They have a vision, and publishers aren't picking up the tab. So they go to the audience likely to want a game like that. They ask that audience to be investors instead. Now gamers are never confused when publishers don't get a return on their investment when a developer fails to meet their goals. It happens all the time in the industry. Why would this suddenly change when the investors are gamers instead?

How do you expect a developer who couldn't even afford to make the game in the first place to repay a plethora of gamers when the money was likely already spent in an attempt to make the game with that money? I mean, it's just not realistic. It's nice to want things, but I don't see how that's reasonable. In fact unless there's real evidence of corruption or using the funds for something other than development of the game, I'd even remove that terms. It's an investment, and people need to go into it expecting that.


Again, I want to emphasize I completely understand why anyone would be angry when their investment fails to return anything. I'd be right alongside them asking for the developer's head, so-to-speak. But I don't think it's fair to require refunds on such a thing, since that's the nature of the beast. Investments fail.

 

[LuchaShaq]

The design changes are fucking hideous. So glad I didn't back this.


Amirox. Many game makers are using kick starter as nothing more than early pre orders.

Also its nothing like investment since the point if investment is profit.

 

[emiranda061288]

Wow. That is a seriously silly requirement for an investment set up type of a site. And as we have seen from countless projects, nearly impossible to enforce anyway.
[...] Investments fail.

This, people believe that a product should be expected and they don't realize that there are no guarantees about anything, if you make a dumb investment you are the only one to be blamed.

 

[foxdvd]

The design changes are fucking hideous. So glad I didn't back this.



Also its nothing like investment since the point if investment is profit.

I think a lot of people miss this point. When you invest in something you run the risk of losing everything, but if that investment flourishes you profit beyond your investment. Kickstarter you are basically per-ordering the game, and the developer is using that money to finish the project. If that game goes on to be the next Minecraft, you are not going to see money from your investment, just a copy of that game, or maybe a few other overpriced items.

 

[I'm an expert]

Has someone let Patrick Klepek know yet?

 

[Cheddahz]

Has someone let Patrick Klepek know yet?

I tweeted him earlier

 

[element]

This is from the recent update

THE CODING BEGINS

The past two weeks I have been working literally non-stop on getting the code base for Soul Saga set up. I had originally planned on jumping right in to the combat prototype, but as I sat down for the code, I realized it would be a much smarter idea to lay the foundational code for all of the supporting elements before getting into the actual game itself.
So I pushed the combat prototype farther down the “to do” list and worked on the level loading, character loading, basic stat system, Saving/Loading/Deleting files, maintaining player settings, basic movement, basic camera functionality, Xbox 360 controller input, mouse and keyboard functionality, basic user interface functionality, and a few other things. I got all of those already set in solid place. Next I’m planning on working more on the character movement in the world, basic world enemy AI, then moving on to the combat prototype mid this week. I think 1-2 weeks from now is a good milestone for the combat prototype now that all of the other stuff is in place.
Graphically speaking, there currently is not much to show. However, these key elements are an important part of the game as a whole and I had to make sure they were all in place before starting on all the fun stuff.

SERIOUSLY? He might as well have putting "tighten up the graphics". He is talking about entire sub-systems that could take weeks with a senior programmer and thinking he can knock them out in a couple days?

This guy is delusional.

 

[The End]

Is he using gamemaker, maybe?

It's kind of awesome what you can do with it ( Spelunky, Steamworld Dig) and that's how Valdis Story got made.

 

[Booter]

Is he using gamemaker, maybe?

considering his "game" uses polygonal models, highly doubtful.

It isn't investment. It isn't a preorder. It's patronage.

this, this, a thousand times this.

 

[Azih]

It isn't investment. It isn't a preorder. It's patronage.

 

[The End]

Ah, so.

I wasn't sure if it had "babby's first 3d engine" mode or not, but maybe Unity then?

 

[flkraven]

It's not an investment. Most videogame kickstarters are successful, and often exceed the promises of their initial pitch. These games wouldn't exist without kickstarter. Seriously, the Banner Saga just came out, and is getting praised by everyone who puts their hands on it. The first half of Broken Age just came out, and one of the best adventure games I have ever played already. I've played at least a half dozen kickstarted games now, some I backed and some I picked up after, and all of them have been good to completely amazing. I didn't even know Kentucky Route Zero was a kickstarter project, and it's incredible. I've gotten plenty out of kickstarter from the generosity of others so I wouldn't even mind that much if one of the projects I put money into failed, but so far none of them have, and none of them look like they will either.

Where did you get this stat for this? I don't think a half dozen is enough to declare 'most'. Most is a pretty lofty claim, considering this thread was up just 2 days ago:

Kickstarter Study Highlights Low Delivery Rates of Game Projects

 

[Aaron]

Where did you get this stat for this? I don't think a half dozen is enough to declare 'most'. Most is a pretty lofty claim, considering this thread was up just 2 days ago:

Kickstarter Study Highlights Low Delivery Rates of Game Projects

Most of the ones that haven't delivered aren't finished yet, but it doesn't account for those that have released playable alphas and betas like Wasteland 2. You're right though most is a lofty claim. I should have said something like the majority are on track.

 

[LSauchelli]

SERIOUSLY? He might as well have putting "tighten up the graphics". He is talking about entire sub-systems that could take weeks with a senior programmer and thinking he can knock them out in a couple days?

This guy is delusional.

He's possibly using one of several assets that do this kind of thing for you and is just 'tweaking' them to his liking.

 

[flkraven]

Most of the ones that haven't delivered aren't finished yet, but it doesn't account for those that have released playable alphas and betas like Wasteland 2. You're right though most is a lofty claim. I should have said something like the majority are on track.

I think you shouldn't declare most or majority unless there are concrete facts. The metrics used to arrive at the 'less than 1/3 deliver' number may be flawed, but that doesn't mean they can be ignored and brushed aside. This is not a risk-free purchase, and this thread is an example of a way that a game is still 'completed' while being entirely different from what the investor thought they were investing in. Look at the most recent pictures of Mighty Number 9. Many people are stating how worried they were that it moved away from the original art style they had invested in.

 

[graywolf323]

yeah that was a problem the OP here had, not actually including the final character art

 

[Aaron]

I think you shouldn't declare most or majority unless there are concrete facts. The metrics used to arrive at the 'less than 1/3 deliver' number may be flawed, but that doesn't mean they can be ignored and brushed aside. This is not a risk-free purchase, and this thread is an example of a way that a game is still 'completed' while being entirely different from what the investor thought they were investing in. Look at the most recent pictures of Mighty Number 9. Many people are stating how worried they were that it moved away from the original art style they had invested in.

Sure, but to use your example, Mighty Number 9 is really far off and people are overreacting to an alpha screenshot. People should definitely express their concerns, but it's too early to say that project is heading in the wrong direction. While a number of projects I've put money in have playable demos, or in game videos and screens. Maybe I've been lucky, but everything I've seen looks great, and so has everything that's come out. Then I haven't put money into shaky projects like the one that started this thread.

 

[element]

He's possibly using one of several assets that do this kind of thing for you and is just 'tweaking' them to his liking.

Even tweaking them work with all of your other sub-systems is not something done in hours.

 

[LSauchelli]

Even tweaking them work with all of your other sub-systems is not something done in hours.

True, but he's saying he thinks it will take him 1-2 weeks for the combat prototype, not hours. That is, unless I miss-read something?

 

[Calabi]

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

edit: Feel I should clarify - I am not a backer of this project, but another failed Kickstarter for some gaming hardware. I've been trying to find a proper way to find support/legal assistance, but there are absolutely zero consumer advocacy groups I can find that are interested in KS yet.

Thats rewards the extra stuff they offer to make people up their pledges, like T-shirts and other stupid stuff.

"Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward."

So it may be a good idea not to offer rewards.

 

[Authority]

Give up your pathetic shit-mongering. Kickstarter is not a scam. Your complaints are completely pointless, wrong and just silly.

Facts speak louder than insults.

"A total value of $21,641,800 has so far been sunk into successful Kickstarter projects that have failed to deliver, while the total value of projects that have delivered is less than $17,000,000".

Direct Source: http://gamerant.com/kickstarter-video-game-failure-rate/

"A new infographic (below) shows that Kickstarter may not be the instant cure-all that some independent developers think it is. Appsblogger created the infographic after scraping 45,815 Kickstarter projects on the official site. As of June 2, 2012, $214,558,344 was pledged across 2,974, 842 backers. In the games category, only 43 percent of projects were successful, with $22.7 million being raised in total.

Successful projects averaged $5,487 per pledge, while failed projects averaged $16,365 per pledge, meaning those looking to launch Kickstarter projects should aim for a larger number of small donations instead of hoping that a few large backers can save you. All told, only 8.5 percent of all funded projects exceeded their funding goal by more than double".

Direct Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-12-kickstarter-more-than-half-of-game-projects-fail

"Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill".

Direct Source: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

It is out rightfully a scam. Hundreds(?) of thousands of gamers have literally lost their money without even receiving a return and you come here calling the factual data "shit-mongering, silly, pointless and wrong" because "Broken age, Banner Saga" as well as a couple of others came out good out of this shit storm of incomplete and incompetent games.

Yeah, it is pointless/wrong/silly/shit-mongering to point out the scam which is money not being returned since the promise was broken.

To reiterate, it is a scam because

• It is not transparent enough
• It offers no legal protection
• It offers no return policies
• It deliberately hides or refuses to give out statistics and only does so when it comes after public scrutiny

This is injustice.

The Doom that came to kickstarter anyone?
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-doom-that-came-to-kickstarter-a-tale-of-crowdfunding-gone-awry

 

[Branduil]

Kickstarter isn't a scamming site, it's a gambling site. If you bet on the wrong project, you're going to lose. This project in particular has a number of red flags that should have scared off investors, but sometimes you have to learn by experience.

I certainly don't regret any of the projects I've donated to so far.

 

[Salamando]

Thats rewards the extra stuff they offer to make people up their pledges, like T-shirts and other stupid stuff.

"Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward."

So it may be a good idea not to offer rewards.

Not quite. Anything listed as something you get for a pledge counts as a reward. Even if it's the subject of the Kickstarter. While Kickstarter does say a creator is legally responsible for fulfilling rewards, they also absolve themselves of anything once the project is funded. If a backer wants a refund and the creator ignores them, the onus is on the backer to get it.

"Kickstarter is not liable for any damages or loss incurred related to rewards or any other use of the Service. Kickstarter is under no obligation to become involved in disputes between any Users, or between Users and any third party arising in connection with the use of the Service. This includes, but is not limited to, delivery of goods and services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties, or representations associated with campaigns on the Site. Kickstarter does not oversee the performance or punctuality of projects."

 

[Azih]

Your source ain't great Authority. A failed Kickstarter isn't the same thing as one that hasn't delivered yet and the evilasahobby guy would have to do more research to see which ones are abandoned (failures) and which ones are still in progress (not failures). As is his findings are incomplete.

Personally speaking I got FTL and Shadowrun Returns, both games which would not have existed if not for Kickstarter, and they both are incredibly amazing experiences. The other ones that I have backed, Torment, Dead State, Eternity, all send out regular updates and are looking good as well. Broken Age could be considered a success already.

 

[LouisaFerre]

It is out rightfully a scam. Hundreds(?) of thousands of gamers have literally lost their money without even receiving a return and you come here calling the factual data "shit-mongering, silly, pointless and wrong" because "Broken age, Banner Saga" as well as a couple of others came out good out of this shit storm of incomplete and incompetent games.

Yeah, it is pointless/wrong/silly/shit-mongering to point out the scam which is money not being returned since the promise was broken.

To reiterate, it is a scam because

• It is not transparent enough
• It offers no legal protection
• It offers no return policies
• It deliberately hides or refuses to give out statistics and only does so when it comes after public scrutiny

This is injustice.

I personally just look at it as a donation. Someone makes an appeal to me or however many people to give them money, and if we consider them credible or responsible enough to do what we want with the money, we might choose to give them some. It's not buying something, and it's not making a real investment. You are essentially donating money to try and help them accomplish a goal, and they might. It might fail, probably due to incompetence. That is a fairly obvious risk with this kind of shit, and people are just as responsible for doing their research and handling their money responsibly as the project creators are for delivering on their promises.

 

[Elessartelrunya]

Appears I got a reply from Mike. Will check it when I get hone. I'm not expecting much but will report the details soon.

 

[Feep]

A bunch of bullshit

Kickstarter is very clear on this point: you are not purchasing anything. You are "pledging", contributing toward a project that may, due to various circumstances, never see the light of day. People do this willingly.

This isn't complicated. You might as well try to sue the state of California because sometimes scratch-off lottery tickets don't win anything.

 

[Cheddahz]

Appears I got a reply from Mike. Will check it when I get hone. I'm not expecting much but will report the details soon.

I got one from him earlier saying that I would get a refund whenever the game comes out and he mentioned that someone else had requested one as well...

 

[Calabi]

Not quite. Anything listed as something you get for a pledge counts as a reward. Even if it's the subject of the Kickstarter. While Kickstarter does say a creator is legally responsible for fulfilling rewards, they also absolve themselves of anything once the project is funded. If a backer wants a refund and the creator ignores them, the onus is on the backer to get it.

"Kickstarter is not liable for any damages or loss incurred related to rewards or any other use of the Service. Kickstarter is under no obligation to become involved in disputes between any Users, or between Users and any third party arising in connection with the use of the Service. This includes, but is not limited to, delivery of goods and services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties, or representations associated with campaigns on the Site. Kickstarter does not oversee the performance or punctuality of projects."

I know, it includes digital copies of the game, so if you dont give the game or anything at all as a reward you arent liable. But then likely, if you dont promise anything as a reward then you arent going to get many investors.

 

[Elessartelrunya]

I got one from him earlier saying that I would get a refund whenever the game comes out and he mentioned that someone else had requested one as well...

Lol, yeah. Here's the email:

That's nice and all, but after lashing out, banning me, locking down the forums, and blocking me on Twitter...oh and taking 3+ days to reply to my initial request...his "apology" seems very hollow/empty.

Not toention I still have to wait until the game comes out, if ever. And I'm not sure what humble bundle has to do with this? I backed via kickstarter...

 

[Cheddahz]

And I'm not sure what humble bundle has to do with this? I backed via kickstarter...

I wasn't too sure of that as well

 

[Elessartelrunya]

I wasn't too sure of that as well

Meh, whatever. The damage is done. Had he not banned me and simply let me wait to see what the new changes are, things could have turned out very differently.

 

[graywolf323]

I wasn't too sure of that as well

a lot of the Kickstarters are using Humble Bundle to distribute keys

Broken Age, Cosmic Star Heroine, etc. all have Humble Bundle pages for backers so it seems he was able to get the same sorta deal with the Humble Bundle people

 

[Cheddahz]

a lot of the Kickstarters are using Humble Bundle to distribute keys

Broken Age, Cosmic Star Heroine, etc. all have Humble Bundle pages for backers so it seems he was able to get the same sorta deal with the Humble Bundle people

Alright, that makes sense...but wouldn't that only be for PC versions?

 

[puzl]

Enjoy your refund in Spring 2019!

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

The creator should be allowed to make any changes he sees fit during development, whether it's changes in artstyle, gameplay or scope.

That's... that's not how making things works.

You cannot constantly be changing everything during production.

 

[JDSN]

Pretty cool tactic, he gets to keep the money for a while so its easier to do the whole disappearing act later.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Anyone think that girl on the far right looks like Gaige the Mechromancer from Borderlands 2? The just gave her a fake leg vs a fake arm

Apologies if this has been mentioned

Yeah, I mentioned that in the other thread. Seems like her design changed yet again, though, and now she looks a bit more different, but yeah, this whole dev cycle has been a giant clusterfuck. Very glad I didn't back this, feel sorry for the backers.

ROFL at the fact that he just "started coding". Hahaha oh man...

 

[mclem]

I know you'd probably never say it, but I really wish we knew who said "screw the backers" so we could all opt to never, ever support that group again. Now that's something they should be ashamed about.

As a philosophical aside; while "screw the backers" is right out, of course, I've wondered a few times if someone was to present a more reasonable statement that they aren't giving what we asked for; something along the lines of "Look, I know I promised feature X, but I believe the funding will result in a better game if I do feature Y". (For instance: Imagine X is backer-exclusive costumes, Y is a bonus level available to everyone). On the one hand, I did pledge towards a project that promised X, but on the other hand, I pledged to the project because I had faith in the manager's vision, and if he feels Y is better than X, should I not also have faith in that, too?

I've gone back and forth on that a few times, and I haven't really come to a conclusion. It's probably something I'd handle if and when it comes on a case-by-case basis.

 

[WolvenOne]

Two Cents.

I didn't fund this, because I pegged this as a person project by an enthusiast. He paid a little money for some art assets, and voice acting, but that was about all he had to show. So I figured development would be slow, and a little rough, and decided that I'd rather put my money elsewhere.

That said, a few things seem obvious to me here.

First, the latest drama was set off by changes in art design, and the fact that there were changes in art design really shouldn't have surprised anyone. Yes, as an investor you're free to inquire into these matters, but you only have so much leverage. Unless you paid a disproportionately large amount of money, you cannot reasonably expect the project leader to take too much time to answer your questions and sooth your fears. Pushing beyond a certain point, actually would be considered somewhat passive aggressive in many circles.

Second. If the game has been undergoing reworking, in terms of artstyle, story, or gameplay mechanics, it probably shouldn't be surprising that they're still early in the coding process. Is that reassuring, no not really, but again, this is the sort of thing you should expect when you're funding a very small scale person project.

Finally.

I actually like the new art assets a bit more. The ones used for the kickstarter campaign had odd proportions and seemed somewhat amateurish to me. The new designs are ever so slightly more generic looking, but far better drawn overall. So, on balance I'd call the new art-style a solid improvement.

This doesn't mean I'd rush out to fund it mind you, a high thresh-hold must be passed before I part with my hard earned money. However, I probably would've been more tempted had the new art assets been used in its kickstarter.

 

[mclem]

Wow. That is a seriously silly requirement for an investment set up type of a site. And as we have seen from countless projects, nearly impossible to enforce anyway.

I suspect that's mainly to cover KS themselves, to be honest. Fulfilment is somewhat hard to define in many cases when you're dealing with an abstractly-defined creative product. Note that it doesn't actually state that KS will pursue a lawsuit, just that backers have the option to do so.

 

[EVIL]

I like kickstarter from a developer point of view, it can bring in needed money to.. well.. kickstart a project, but in the mean time, people who see these projects and pledge might not have an idea how game development works. So when they see a game project, they might not realize the game might take years to finish, directions may change, goals can shift.

Its in the developers best interest to make these things very clear on their kickstart page. unfortunately, you have allot of indies who have no idea on how to make a game or are simply to ambitious for their own good. They put up a fancy video with them explaining their ambitious vision, and provide some concept art, and make allot of promises to get you to give them money, and its easy to imagine a full game based off those snippets of information. But even with experienced developers, who take care to explicitly state that things can change, people still fail to read and get swept away with keywords like: oldschool, hardcore, traditional, metroidvania, roguelike, etc. and blindly without even looking at trackrecords, pledge obscene amounts of money. And when things don't work out, they are the first to scream murder.

Take a look at Mighty No. 9 where they added imagery that stated explicitly that its concept art, and still people expected the game to look like that. nowhere did it say that the game will look like that, but people took the images, and the info and created an imaginary game in their head and gave money based on that fantasy.

Not only should Kickstarter projects never be handled lightly (Project developers should set up their kickstarter with allot more care, and explicitly state that everything on this project can change at any time to benefit the final product) but in the meantime, pledgers should also be allot more careful with their money.

They think of kickstarter as a pre-ordering service, investment program, or an early access program. while its certainly shares some features, its actually more like charity. You like a project and want to increase its chances for survival, and so in order for it to UP its chances you decide to give them money, and as a reward for your faith and good deed, you can get a copy of a the game in various forms, physical stuff, digital stuff, etc. depending on the amount of money you donated.

The problem with kickstarter is that its service is measured by its failures and by its poor performers.
So while the service is perfectly fine, and a good way for projects to get off the ground, the distance between developers not realising what pledgers expect and pledgers not realizing that projects are dynamic in nature, creates allot of miscommunication.

 

[ColonelSkills]

Fear mongering horseshit.

You have some selective bolding there. When you lump 'failed to deliver' in with 'still in progress', your stats are going to be hilariously out of whack.

You should have bolded the sentence right beforehand. From that very same click-bait article you linked:

3% of successful projects have been formally cancelled, while a further 2% have been formally placed in hiatus.

But keep pushing that agenda though. It's cute.

 

[Authority]

Your source ain't great Authority. A failed Kickstarter isn't the same thing as one that hasn't delivered yet and the evilasahobby guy would have to do more research to see which ones are abandoned (failures) and which ones are still in progress (not failures). As is his findings are incomplete.

Personally speaking I got FTL and Shadowrun Returns, both games which would not have existed if not for Kickstarter, and they both are incredibly amazing experiences. The other ones that I have backed, Torment, Dead State, Eternity, all send out regular updates and are looking good as well. Broken Age could be considered a success already.

That 21 million dollars refers to the successful kickstarters that achieved their fundraising aim but got canceled or pull out the plug, I assume. In that respect, the unsuccessful kickstarters means the ones that didn't achieve their fundraising goal, I assume again.

In both situations, money was lost. I cannot find other data regarding the latter since Kickstarter is not transparent about it.

Anyhow, I am not sure why this argument of "if it wasn't for Kickstarter, the X game would not have existed" still persists because it is irrational. On the other hand, games like you said Shadow Return, Starbound, Faster than light, and other indie games of that environment including Trine 2 [

] might have not been backed up by major publishers but I still like to think that they would be great assets to, for example, 3DS if approached. The market right now is not more limited.

I personally just look at it as a donation. Someone makes an appeal to me or however many people to give them money, and if we consider them credible or responsible enough to do what we want with the money, we might choose to give them some. It's not buying something, and it's not making a real investment. You are essentially donating money to try and help them accomplish a goal, and they might. It might fail, probably due to incompetence. That is a fairly obvious risk with this kind of shit, and people are just as responsible for doing their research and handling their money responsibly as the project creators are for delivering on their promises.

There is no guarantee that someone who is more experienced will be credible than someone who has not. There is a greater chance but that is a chance, not a fact regardless of what is a more rational choice when thinking the criteria to make your donation.

You can only be responsible in an environment that offers you limited research. Beyond that it is another day lighting up the candle in church on Sunday.