It's really odd to read as someone who isn't a regular, what a waste of energy.
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Nintendo NX rumored to use Nvidia's Pascal GPU architecture
- Thread starter nhlducks35
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It's really odd to read as someone who isn't a regular, what a waste of energy.
NX Fan's Sky
That's probably me.
I already mentioned that I don't care if I'm wrong and that I'll admit being wrong once it's all revealed.
Even when I saw the Wii U games revealed back at E3 2012 I was fine with it but, I had a friend that got pissed off that this was all the Wii U could do. It didn't look next gen. Etc
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I think people are being pretty tamed in their discussions, no one is expecting a combination of hardware to reach 1060 0r 1070 levels. But I personally think that all of the hardware will be present on day one for NX, just the OS may not be fully featured out of the gate.
I hope I'm wrong about that and maybe getting the OS right was a big part of the delay as well. But this system will probably live or die on the fluid ability of the OS to create a seamless integration of hardware with software.
Nintendo just needs the premise and idea of this to work and wow gamers with Ease of use and level of sophistication. All of the best hardware in the world means nothing if the idea and dream can't come to life and work pretty flawlessly.
Yes. Eurogamer didn't report on a second SKU but the second SKU isn't a home console believe.
Could also be some cheap tablet that runs the Eshop and mobile games lol.
MrCunningham
Member
It does match up with Nintendo's patent on the SCD. Though it is hard to say what else the SCD will have in store as far as features go. There could be more onboard storage for transfers between the handheld device and the SCD. Of course the SCD will be a hub for multiple controllers.
This is all speculation though. But ARM seems likely as Nintendo knows the ARM CPU's well. They have been working with these CPU's since the GBA, and ARM's still make the best lower power solution for mobile devices. But a second Tegra with a higher clocked ARM and Pascal GPU architecture, that is hard to say though it could still work into Nintendo's budget.
Schnozberry
Member
Yes, especially when not all of your users will have access to the hardware. It's an idea that only makes sense if you're attempting to connect the dots between the SCD patent and a predetermined preferred conclusion.
Speaking with Zombie, we've come up with a spec sheet that would be between 5-6w while in handheld mode.
Keep in mind it's all speculation. So the CPU clocks wouldn't change even when in portable mode. It's the GPU and ram speeds that would likely change.
The handheld mode should be enough for 720p60 of AAA games you see today given they are optimized properly. 1080p30 in docked mode. Unreal 4 games could run 1080p60 due to the use of FP16. It would outperform PS4 games with proper 16-bit FP usage. So hypothetically UE4 games like KH3 or FFVII remake would run better on NX docked mode than PS4.
4 A72's at 1.8Ghz (All for gaming)
4 A53's at 1.2Ghz (two reserved for OS)
6GB LPDDR4 at 4000Mhz (2000Mhz handheld mode)
Tegra GPU at 1.21Ghz (550Mhz handheld mode)
Assuming 384 cuda cores in the Tegra you get 922Gflops in docked mode which runs games about on par with Xbox One (any 900p game on XB1 would likely be 1080p on NX due to better CPU and Vulkan). 922Glfops is close to 1.3TF of AMD performance (Xbox One).
422Gflops in handheld mode.
Keep in mind it's all speculation. So the CPU clocks wouldn't change even when in portable mode. It's the GPU and ram speeds that would likely change.
The handheld mode should be enough for 720p60 of AAA games you see today given they are optimized properly. 1080p30 in docked mode. Unreal 4 games could run 1080p60 due to the use of FP16. It would outperform PS4 games with proper 16-bit FP usage. So hypothetically UE4 games like KH3 or FFVII remake would run better on NX docked mode than PS4.
4 A72's at 1.8Ghz (All for gaming)
4 A53's at 1.2Ghz (two reserved for OS)
6GB LPDDR4 at 4000Mhz (2000Mhz handheld mode)
Tegra GPU at 1.21Ghz (550Mhz handheld mode)
Assuming 384 cuda cores in the Tegra you get 922Gflops in docked mode which runs games about on par with Xbox One (any 900p game on XB1 would likely be 1080p on NX due to better CPU and Vulkan). 922Glfops is close to 1.3TF of AMD performance (Xbox One).
422Gflops in handheld mode.
MrCunningham
Member
It really depends on how it gets implemented. If Nintendo enforces third parties to develop their games for the base unit only, and just use the additional hardware in the doc for upping the resolution (and possibly framerate) to be much better suited for a TV, then no I don't think it would be any more convoluted. No more so than running PC games on better hardware, or mobile games on a faster device, or Scorpio or the PS4K running PS4 and Xbox One games. It could be used in the same capacity.
The upcoming 1050, or 10 series mobile line, makes more sense if something like that is happening.
Not that i disagree with the thought that the whole SCD thing is being overblown, but I don't really think the setup of some sort of additional power add-on is any more convoluted than developing for multiple systems and/or cross gen development...or even PC development for that matter. It's not like this would push 3rd parties any further away from Nintendo than they already are.
GhostTrick
Banned
Lol. I wished you were around for WUST, cause that would've been even more funny :")
So we came from best case scenario being 200gflops to now 422gflops handheld being normal scenario.
And now, because of magic sauce FP16, a 933gflops Nvidia part will outperform a 1841gflops AMD part. Even more funny, better CPU will allow to reach 1080p when XB1 reach 900p.
This is crazy, wild, fan speculations at this point. And you might get a harsh reality check when the handheld hands up having 1SMM or two at best, and have no dock mode.
Sane and reasonable expectations should be a handheld on par/faster than Wii U at 540/720p, being able to display these games at native 1080p on TV.
I lurked WUST and discovered what neogaf was during that time. I joined in 2012. But read from April 2011 till I was approved. I didn't post, but I was there with you guys. All the batshit crazy specs and IdeaMan teases.
I expect 3SM.
GhostTrick
Banned
You lurked but you couldn't contribute, hence my regrets :")
You expect 3SMM, and it isn't out of reach. But that kind of speculation is basically taking small elements, not too out of stretch, small elements not too out of reach. And you add more and more and more of them. And you end up with something crazy and totally far fetched.
I think they're reasonable given Tegra's performance per watt. Nvidia mobile SoC are excellent and less then $250 while having respectable battery life.
And it'll likely be X2 or a custom Tegra that's based on X2 so who knows what performance gains there will be?
Yeah i figured. Cant really see ninty doing this. At most maybe an external gpu but that still causes hella probs. No way theyd have a second cpu lol (not rly necessary as a decent arm can beat the jaguar anyhoosle)
Mr. Pointy
Member
Nvidia did announce their mobile 10 series GPU line, and the notebook version of the 1060 is apparently the same as the dGPU version, but at a lower clock.
I'm not expecting Nintendo to make a SCD that will let the NX compete with Neo/Scorpio, but if they decided to go ahead with something like that, mobile 1060 (maybe with less SMs, so they can salvage more chips) wouldn't be too bad of an idea. Of course they could just use a Pascal Tegra with more SMs, but where's the fun in that?
Mr. Pointy
Member
WHOOPS DOUBLE POST.
Omg how did I miss USB ports lol? Haha.
I suggested PS Vita TV version of NX for cheaper cost if there's no more home consoles and you have to use SCD for performance boost although, I don't know if that's what "no one would expect"?
Edit: Using "There is a second SKU that no one would expect" sounds suspicious as it is.
I don't think many are suspecting a SCD-type device. It's never been done before. Even with the patent being uncovered, it's not well known I'd say.
MrCunningham
Member
There are laptops being released now that have external docks that can interface with higher end GPU's through fast connections like thunderbolt. They will be more common in months to come. To me it doesn't seem completely out of that realm of possibility. Though I am also not saying that it will happen for certain. A dock will happen, but SCD... is a bit of a wild card.
I understand keeping expectations in tact, but some comments aren't being skeptical they're down right pessimistic! Everything we have to go by so far is rumors, so everything is just speculation within a margin of error and with good reasoning. We don't expect this thing to be a gtx 1050 or 1060, but it's not the WiiU either!
If any of the rumored developers porting games is to be believed, this system has no problems running current generation engines and games. Now whether that means extra work is needed to convert x86 code for ARM, not sure but the early whispers are nothing like what we heard about WiiU cpu and trying to make ports run on the hardware stable!
Once again putting all of the hardware aside, I think the OS will be the key factor to this product doing what we theorize it can do...
If any of the rumored developers porting games is to be believed, this system has no problems running current generation engines and games. Now whether that means extra work is needed to convert x86 code for ARM, not sure but the early whispers are nothing like what we heard about WiiU cpu and trying to make ports run on the hardware stable!
Once again putting all of the hardware aside, I think the OS will be the key factor to this product doing what we theorize it can do...
Heh and I thought the SCD was well known at this point with regards to rumours.
So either the second SKU is the SCD or not and, whether the dock does anything to the NX's performance when docked.
For me though I'm still thinking no change occurs when docked. Hence thinking that the NX is 720p or 768p at all times.
So if there was an SCD, you'd have to buy it for better performance.
Sounds like a shit proposition for some people that want console performance though. I guess it all depends on the cost which we spent speculating on what the SCD could do and have.
If that comes to be, the question is what performance do we get with it and what do we get without it on both ends? It'd have to be worthwhile to get both.
Candescence
Member
x86 to ARM is practically trivial these days, frankly, the latter is arguably even more ubiquitous these days due to mobile devices. UE4 and Unity support both. A Pascal Tegra-powered NX would have little trouble with ports architecturally, it's power that's the big question, but considering the stuff we've heard, that might be moot as well.
I'm not good at the tech specifics, that's why I've always specified that the NX should be tablet sized rather than vita sized. Apparently it should allow it to do a bit more with regards to Wattage and heat dissipation because it's a bigger body.
I guess what I'm saying is people aren't going to buy both if it's more expensive than a PS4 Neo together and doesn't give you as good specs as a regular PS4.
i'm imagining it as a platform that runs games somewhere between wii u and xbone
at 540p
which means the wii u version of zelda would be the better looking version
Your enthusiasm makes it sound a bit magical, or over the top. Really this is just a 50% increase in cuda cores over X1 and a 20% clock increase. (1 more SM, which Tharktor already pointed out would have a lower power consumption) Less power consumption for the CPU than Shield TV, but with CPU power in line with LCGeek's greater than XB1's CPU (which is around 10% faster than PS4's CPU) and Less RAM than PS4/XB1.
The docked mode is clocked in a way to allow the same FPS at 1080p as the handheld at 720p, IMO it is really the only way to have a docked mode work.
USB ports and HDMI with 5.1 sound could come out of the dock no problem.
ghosttrick, going back 6 months and you were speculating a 60gflops handheld, your speculation isn't based on logic, it doesn't follow tech or what is achievable, you just "lol nintendo" your way to your conclusions. You're in a thread about Pascal GPU architecture, surrounding a rumor of the next tegra chip, speculation should naturally flow to it exceeding previous tegra chips, my speculation is an 80% increase over X1, with no CPU increase. That is a very reasonable speculation to have, and yes a ~930gflops pascal gpu should perform in line with XB1, and given that XB1 and PS4 cannot do 16bit floating point ops, there is a large increase in performance waiting for developers who use it correctly, it isn't 2x because you still need to draw polygons with 32bit precision, but you can easily handle the vast majority of other workloads in 16bit, edging out PS4 for UE4 ports done correctly.
This would be easier if we heard about the dock doing anything however, we haven't heard about two performance modes when the NX is docked/undocked that devs are making.
So either the dock does something or it doesn't. This mere clock speed switch can't be something that Nintendo wants hidden from its competitors so the only other assumption at the moment is the SCD that they won't even show to devs. If that's even sensible.
We really need leaks from the new dev kits from this month.
GhostTrick
Banned
6 months ago we had no infos. 6 months ago you and I weren't expecting an hybrid.
I just dont "lol nintendo". Looking at a company's history on how they make hardware isn't "lol nintendo". Following the trend set by Nintendo's handheld, the sane expectation was Nintendo going fir a handheld with visuals looking roughly like Wii U but with some edges cut down. Now we have people claiming outperform XB1 or PS4. Nintendo isn't the company using cutting edge technology or going for horsepower. And now we have people expecting them to beat XB1 and PS4 for UE4 titles.
I do not think Nintendo is pushing for 2 SKU with no relation. A home console playing handheld games. It already exists, it is called VitaTV. It is a flop and nintendo knows it, nobody cares. You can also argue Gameboy player was already that in some sense 15 years ago. They will not rebuilt their base on such a risky proposition.
Having a handheld with HDMI out is also not very fascinating, nobody will care.
In that sense, the hybrid concept is the only interesting gimmick, with a dock of external power to accomodate the change of resolution. Now, the real power inside, this is where fantasy and fan conjectures appear.
Having a handheld with HDMI out is also not very fascinating, nobody will care.
In that sense, the hybrid concept is the only interesting gimmick, with a dock of external power to accomodate the change of resolution. Now, the real power inside, this is where fantasy and fan conjectures appear.
GhostTrick
Banned
We haven't but the speculation about performance mode isn't about upclock. You have to imagine that the devkit is running on high clock because of being docked by definition.
It is reasonable to think Nintendo push devs for the docked mode situation, whereas the undocked mode should be handled automatically by the OS (downscaling resolution by downclocking the GPU).
Yeah, ARM A9 or A15 being best case scenarios isn't "lol nintendo" and is totally reasonable? Based on some insight to modern tech? Yes the Wii U happened, it is important to understand why, and until you do, you're always going to miss read the history behind their hardware. I mean just a couple nights ago you were arguing with me that SNES had superior specs to GBA. Tech is tech man, and if you are in a speculation thread, expect people to speculate, don't tell others how to think either, if you believe NX can't match XB1, that is fine, if you think NX won't use 16bit mode for UE4 games (developers will of course decide on their own) that is up to you to believe, but it is technically possible in those specs to out perform PS4 in UE4 games.
The dock won't have anything special other than a cooling unit and providing power for the handheld. Anything else will just jack up the price on the handheld
Not even sure it will need a cooling unit. Google's Pixel C uses X1 (20nm and Maxwell architecture) @ 850mhz in a fanless casing as thin as a phone. Nvidia is putting 10SM full size GTX 1060s in thin and light laptops with 1.6ghz+ clocks... so over 1Ghz in a fanless design with Pascal should be doable with a decent size passive cooler, and would be cheaper than giving the dock moving parts.
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