Support NeoGAF

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Symphonia 1 did do really well but just look at these sales. Everything is down. Resistance 2 and MS2 sold at a fraction of the originals, same with Saint's Row 2(despite being a better game and having a PS3 version)

Even looking outside the JRPG genre sales are just lower overall. It's a depressing state of affairs.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Assuming those numbers are correct, GHWT's ~1 million unit lead over RB2 is due solely to the Wii version. GG Harmonix.

Also, RB2 and GHWT have had massive declines over their predecessors. Music game fad am dead.

You are comparing numbers from 15 or so months of sales to number from 4 or so though. Those GHWT and RB2 numbers are actually better than I expected.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Abot the Jrpgs, is it really that hard to port from the360 to the PS3?? I mean man are these numbers too low.

Even the DS ones aren't that better too, the genre isn't that hot anymore

The Handheld Games are doin way better because the dev costs are way cheaper - especially for remakes/ports like chrono trigger or dq4 which is like free money.

but at the end - i think Bandai Namco made the right decision to put To10 on Wii...

 

[SilverLunar]

Symphonia is at 106k.

One game being prised as the one of the best the genre has to offer and the other was Killed by bad word of mouth...AND THE DIFFRENCE IS 1K ????
>_<

While you are at it do you know how much FE did?

 

[Johann]

Man all those JRPG numbers are pathetic.

Hell FF-X2 outsold FFXII. Still trying to wrap my head around that one(and this is coming from someone who hated XII and loved X2).

FFXII was delayed for so long that a lot of people who were anticipating it probably lost interest after waiting for so long. It also didn't help that is was a PS2 game coming out when the entire game industry was so focused on Gears of War and the arrival of the Wii and PS3.

 

[Kifimbo]

I though I remembered Symphonia GC doing really well? maybe not..

It did. He's talking about the sequel.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Motorstorm 1 numbers are much higher in the US if you include all the 80GB bundles that contained it. NPD doesn't count these in the total. The same applies for Uncharted, MGS4, Kung Fu Panda 360, Lego Indi 360, RE5 360, and Wii Sports.

And GOW PSP.

 

[Scrubking]

Symphonia is at 106k.

Is that good or bad?

 

[Zen]

Maybe so. But then you are saying that no one should put out a PS3 exclusive new IP game, since the best you could expect it to do is break even and you still have the risk that it could bomb.

Really ?, you think that Naughty Dog only just broke even with Drakes Fortune ?, have you got a source for that ?

Nobody here has any sources for how much the overhead is for any of these games, only speculation. A lot of Sony IPs make their real money when they hit the Greatest Hits price point, usually by 500K they've recouped the overhead and can sell the game at a lower price for pure profit. But thats also speculation.

Amy Hennig, when she was on 1UP Yours with the guy behind OddWorld, mentioned that they were in the black with Uncharted Drakes Fortune. This wasn't too long after release if memory serves.


Ah

02/19/2008 | 1UP Yours - Podcast
The first 1UP Yours of GDC Week finds us talking with Amy Hennig and Lorne Lanning on the ins and outs of telling stories in games

Source

Uncharted was released November 2007

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Is that good or bad?

In what context? Tales usually does pretty assy in the US, so it's not bad in that context. But it's just a fraction of the original Symphonia, which is by far the biggest Tales in the US.

 

[Sadist]

Is that good or bad?

ToV: 107k
ToS DotNW: 106k

You tell me.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Lips - 46k

Didn't MS say that Lips sold great?

 

[dolemite]

ToV: 107k
ToS DotNW: 106k

You tell me.

Wouldn't surprise me if it was the exact same people purchasing.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Amy Hennig, when she was on 1UP Yours with the guy behind OddWorld, mentioned that they were in the black with Uncharted Drakes Fortune. This wasn't too long after release if memory serves.


Ah

02/19/2008 | 1UP Yours - Podcast
The first 1UP Yours of GDC Week finds us talking with Amy Hennig and Lorne Lanning on the ins and outs of telling stories in games

Source

Uncharted was released November 2007

It's from a Gametab page that no longer exists where she stated that it was 1.2 million WW and _leech_ posted the link here with her comment:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13655105&postcount=3087

donny confirmed that she was actually not using NPD numbers in her source but funny enough... VGChartzzz. Also, the game was bundled in Europe during this time so I'm not sure if those can be counted as legit sales.

 

[FateBreaker]

So, is it safe to assume JRPGs are on the endangered species list?

Interestingly enough, it seems that non-jrpgs are doing just fine: Fallout 3, wow. Do we have any numbers--or anything--on Mass Effect and Fable II? Didn't Fable II sell like 850k the first week?

 

[Eteric Rice]

So are those numbers real? If they are, then it's pretty much confirmed that the Wii does indeed sell third party games.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

ToV: 107k
ToS DotNW: 106k

You tell me.

TOSWii is ok but TOV is bad. You have to remember that TOSWii was a low budget spinoff of dubious quality, while TOV was a mainline game with a budget that far surpassed TOSWii.

That plus the fact that TOV has been out for 3 months longer than TOSWii and recieved a far larger amount of pre-release hype.

 

[Spiegel]

Uncharted had sold 240k in UK - as of 3 weeks ago - so the european numbers are probably higher than the NPD numbers

 

[botticus]

So, is it safe to assume JRPGs are on the endangered species list?

Interestingly enough, it seems that non-jrpgs are doing just fine: Fallout 3, wow. Do we have any numbers--or anything--on Mass Effect and Fable II? Didn't Fable II sell like 850k the first week?

Not really any worse than last generation, really. So if they still exist now, they'll continue to exist.

 

[Tobor]

Symphonia 1 did do really well but just look at these sales. Everything is down. Resistance 2 and MS2 sold at a fraction of the originals, same with Saint's Row 2(despite being a better game and having a PS3 version)

Even looking outside the JRPG genre sales are just lower overall. It's a depressing state of affairs.

GTA4 cleaned out the casual market that might have picked up SR2.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Uncharted had sold 240k in UK - as of 3 weeks ago - so the european numbers are probably higher than the NPD numbers

Again, it has been bundled in Europe for a long time now and almost from launch so that may be where the extra numbers are coming from.

 

[dolemite]

So, is it safe to assume JRPGs are on the endangered species list?

Interestingly enough, it seems that non-jrpgs are doing just fine: Fallout 3, wow. Do we have any numbers--or anything--on Mass Effect and Fable II? Didn't Fable II sell like 850k the first week?

As long as the FF series keeps selling millions, the developers will keep taking risk with other titles.

 

[Sadist]

TOSWii is ok but TOV is bad. You have to remember that TOSWii was a low budget spinoff of dubious quality, while TOV was a mainline game with a budget that far surpassed TOSWii.

That plus the fact that TOV has been out for 3 months longer than TOSWii and recieved a far larger amount of pre-release hype.

Yup. But I was pointing out the obvious. ToV only selling 1k more is bad.

 

[Kifimbo]

TOSWii is ok but TOV is bad. You have to remember that TOSWii was a low budget spinoff of dubious quality, while TOV was a mainline game with a budget that far surpassed TOSWii.

That plus the fact that TOV has been out for 3 months longer than TOSWii and recieved a far larger amount of pre-release hype.

To be fair, ToV MSRP was 59.99$, while ToS II was 39.99$.

 

[The_lascar]

For Tales of Symphonia GC :
July 04 (launch) : 118 507
August 04 : 67 172
LTD end of January 05 : 279 697

 

[Spiegel]

Again, it has been bundled in Europe for a long time now and almost from launch so that may be where the extra numbers are coming from.

Yeah, that's a possibility.

I have a doubt regarding something you have said, how can they not be legit sales if you were paying 40 extra euros (so it wasn't a free game) and there were another bundles on the stores?

 

[Hcoregamer00]

So, is it safe to assume JRPGs are on the endangered species list?

Not really, when Atlus and NIS America thrive and continue to publish niche RPG's, I think everything is okay.

If anything, more companies should adopt the Atlus strategy of smaller print runs since it doesn't decrease the value of the game. Sega used it for Valkyria Chronicles, but there are still lots of RPG price collapses.

 

[GenericPseudonym]

Uncharted had sold 240k in UK - as of 3 weeks ago - so the european numbers are probably higher than the NPD numbers

But what is sold? I wouldn't consider buying a PS3 and just getting Motorstorm or Uncharted to be a sale, because people bought the console for the console not the game bundled with it.

I mean we can't go around questioning the validity of Wii Sports sales (given bundling) but let PS3 titles skate by. That applies to certain 360 titles as well (Forza 2, Rare games). The difference being is that every single hyped PS3 game somehow ends up bundled, inflating the sales figure.

 

[gkryhewy]

Not really, when Atlus and NIS America thrive and continue to publish niche RPG's, I think everything is okay.

So you're saying that they'll be like the shmup in that they'll survive as a genre in the form of small budget games with small print runs for core fans? This is not exactly a healthy state of affairs.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Yeah, that's a possibility.

I have a doubt regarding something you have said, how can they not be legit sales if you were paying 40 extra euros (so it wasn't a free game) and there were another bundles on the stores?

Do you consider Lego Indiana Jones and Kung Fu Panda legit sales for the 360 this year? How about Sega Superstar Tennis. If these were counted as legit sales then they would have been some of the best selling titles this year.

 

[Dabanton]

Not really, when Atlus and NIS America thrive and continue to publish niche RPG's, I think everything is okay.

If anything, more companies should adopt the Atlus strategy of smaller print runs since it doesn't decrease the value of the game. Sega used it for Valkyria Chronicles, but there are still lots of RPG price collapses.

Keyword niche yeah Atlus have carved out a nice line doing PSP and DS games but i think most people are talking about more big budget 'HD' Jrpgs.

 

[Spiegel]

But what is sold? I wouldn't consider buying a PS3 and just getting Motorstorm or Uncharted to be a sale, because people bought the console for the console not the game bundled with it.

I mean we can't go around questioning the validity of Wii Sports sales (given bundling) but let PS3 titles skate by. That applies to certain 360 titles as well (Forza 2, Rare games). The difference being is that every single hyped PS3 game somehow ends up bundled, inflating the sales figure.

One thing is buying a console with a free game and another thing is having multiple choices on the stores:

PS3 only - 399 €
PS3 + Uncharted 439 €

Like I said before the Uncharted bundle wasn't the only bundle available at that time. You were paying for the game.

Do you consider Lego Indiana Jones and Kung Fu Panda legit sales for the 360 this year? How about Sega Superstar Tennis. If these were counted as legit sales then they would have been some of the best selling titles this year.

Again, Lego Indiana Jones and KFP are free games. You can't buy a cheaper 360 without the games, you don't have the choice.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

So you're saying that they'll be like the shmup in that they'll survive as a genre in the form of small budget games with small print runs for core fans? This is not exactly a healthy state of affairs.

I was merely pointing out that the Niche Market is doing well, so the RPG is not in trouble of disappearing.

Also, all these statements about the death of JRPG's need some basis.

Where are my SNES sales of Chrono Trigger, FF4, FF6, Secret of Mana, Super Mario RPG?

Where are my PSX sales of Lunar, Lunar 2, Grandia, Chrono Cross, Vagrant Story, Xenogears, Parasite Eve, FF6, FF7, FF8, Dewprism, Brave Fencer Mushashi , Saga Fronteir, Vandal Hearts, etc?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

So you're saying that they'll be like the shmup in that they'll survive as a genre in the form of small budget games with small print runs for core fans? This is not exactly a healthy state of affairs.

Excuse me while I go dig up a lost garden article from 2005....

Here it is:

http://lostgarden.com/2005/05/game-genre-lifecycle-part-i.html

Really good read.

 

[AranhaHunter]

But what is sold? I wouldn't consider buying a PS3 and just getting Motorstorm or Uncharted to be a sale, because people bought the console for the console not the game bundled with it.

I mean we can't go around questioning the validity of Wii Sports sales (given bundling) but let PS3 titles skate by. That applies to certain 360 titles as well (Forza 2, Rare games). The difference being is that every single hyped PS3 game somehow ends up bundled, inflating the sales figure.

Wasn't Halo 3 and Gears bundled as well?

 

[jman2050]

Excuse me while I go dig up a lost garden article from 2005....

Here it is:

http://lostgarden.com/2005/05/game-genre-lifecycle-part-i.html

Really good read.

I keep waiting for the day FPS games fall into this

 

[OldJadedGamer]

One thing is buying a console with a free game and another thing is having multiple choices on the stores:

PS3 only - 399 €
PS3 + Uncharted 439 €

Like I said before the Uncharted bundle wasn't the only bundle available at that time. You were paying for the game.

There are a lot of factors though. Like availablity. In the US during launch there were so few 20gigs made that even if you wanted one you couldn't find one so if you wanted a PS3, you had no choice but to buy a 60 gig. Now no one will ever know that potential lost 20 gig customer because they are only counted as a 60 gig customer. I'm not in Europe so I'm not sure the exact details on the bundle but was the ONLY difference the game packed in? Also, this could be people wanting a game (doesn't matter which one) and seeing that the price for one of the big games out is reduced if they buy it in a bundle so they go that route instead of buying the non bundled version. Again, there are too many factors that come into play with bundles and counting the games that are in the bundles as full sales.

There is without a doubt that if people buy a game on it's own, it's a 100% sale for that game. Look at the MGS4 bundle in the states. Many people like to group the bundles in with the full sales numbers of the game but the bundle was the last system to ever have BC with the PS2, the first system to ever ship with a rumble controller, and had double the harddrive space. Even you hated MGS4, you'd be a fool not to get the $499 80 gig MGS4 bundle over the $399 40 gig.

Sales from games that are pack ins should always be looked at with a watchful eye when it comes to talking about sales numbers for them.

Wasn't Halo 3 and Gears bundled as well?

Never in the US. Even the Halo3 Xbox didn't come with Halo3.

 

[Cipherr]

TOSWii is ok but TOV is bad. You have to remember that TOSWii was a low budget spinoff of dubious quality, while TOV was a mainline game with a budget that far surpassed TOSWii.

That plus the fact that TOV has been out for 3 months longer than TOSWii and recieved a far larger amount of pre-release hype.

I really dont think that qualifiers are needed tor ToS Wii. Its sales suck and so do ToV. Neither did good.

Bad is bad.

I keep waiting for the day FPS games fall into this

I'm right there with you mate. Will be a very bright day. /waits.

 

[Jag22]

I keep waiting for the day FPS games fall into this

Not going to happen.

There's much flexibility in the shooter genre, the genre is also really easy to pick up and play. JRPGs take hours to get into, and are just too slow paced and text/story heavy for your average gamer to get into.

JRPGs have never been mainstream, never. Not in NA.

 

[Firestorm]

Well Namco seems to be happy with Vesperia. Said something about it doing better than expected (which is confusing because they originally projected 500k for Asia + NA). The game is hard to find, most likely out of print, and never had a price drop which is more than I can say for every other RPG on the 360. It's weird because I've never known this backwards company to be logical, but I think they might have done the way they wanted this time?

It'd be cool if it got released as Platinum Hits or something. I'm sure it'd do pretty well at a $29.99 price point. Especially if they're already made what they wanted.

 

[GSG Flash]

There's a reason why Uncharted numbers aren't higher, and that reason is that for some god damn reason Sony thinks keeping the game at full price is a good idea.

I haven't bought Uncharted yet for that exact reason (hell, used copies of the game go for only $10 less, which is ridiculous)

 

[Hcoregamer00]

JRPGs have never been mainstream, never. Not in NA.

Quoted for so much damn truth.

Remember that even in the "golden days" of JRPG's, games were bombing left and right. Why do you think Parasite Eve moved from JRPG to action game? Why do you think we haven't got any "Chrono" games since Chrono Cross?

Well Namco seems to be happy with Vesperia. Said something about it doing better than expected (which is confusing because they originally projected 500k for Asia + NA). The game is hard to find, most likely out of print, and never had a price drop which is more than I can say for every other RPG on the 360. It's weird because I've never known this backwards company to be logical, but I think they might have done the way they wanted this time?

So true, I was happy to find out that Vesperia and Valkyria, two of my favorite games released so far this gen had no price collapse and are being harder and harder to find.

 

[Firestorm]

Does anyone have numbers on Tales of Destiny and Tales of Destiny II (aka Tales of Eternia) for NA? I know Abyss and Legendia sold like half of what Vesperia did, but I'm assuming those two did far better...

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I have combed this thread but I cant seem to find the link where you guys are getting the total sales for all these game can someone throw up the source?

 

[diss]

Quoted for so much damn truth.

Remember that even in the "golden days" of JRPG's, games were bombing left and right. Why do you think Parasite Eve moved from JRPG to action game? Why do you think we haven't got any "Chrono" games since Chrono Cross?



So true, I was happy to find out that Vesperia and Valkyria, two of my favorite games released so far this gen had no price collapse and are being harder and harder to find.

they need to release valkyria chronicles for xbox 360. not because it'll sell on the system, but so i can play it.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

I have combed this thread but I cant seem to find the link where you guys are getting the total sales for all these game can someone throw up the source?

about 4 pages back

 

[AceBandage]

they need to release valkyria chronicles for xbox 360. not because it'll sell on the system, but so i can play it.

They need to make a PSP prequel.

 

[Cipherr]

I have combed this thread but I cant seem to find the link where you guys are getting the total sales for all these game can someone throw up the source?

Didnt the guy that posted it originally remove it fearing a ban for linking to leaked figures? Dont blame him myself.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

link

Thanks man much appreciated.

 

[Tobor]

they need to release valkyria chronicles for xbox 360. not because it'll sell on the system, but so i can play it.

Seriously.