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[Leon S. Kennedy]

reggie tried to get GTA on the gamecube, i wouldn't be surprised if GTA on wii gets announced at E3

On Falafelkid's blog, he says that GTA will come to the wii if the chinatown one sells well on the DS. Sounds like another test.

 

[Sadist]

It's already in development, one of the Rockstar studios formed a Wii development group not too long ago.

You and your funny jokes

 

[Aaron Strife]

On Falafelkid's blog, he says that GTA will come to the wii if the chinatown one sells well on the DS. Sounds like another test.

I have to wonder what the benchmark is for GTA DS to consider it to "sell well." 2 million? 5 million? 10 million?

I can easily see 3 million.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I seem to remember Reggie talking about how they were trying to get games like GTA on the Wii during the early days. Somehow I don't think that worked out too well....

It didn't, because I remember hearing how a Rockstar games higher up laughed at the idea.

Or something.

I'd buy a Bioshock built for the Wii. I'd buy a WRPG built for the Wii. Actually, I'd like to see a WRPG with motion + support. It could let you manipulate the world around you. Physically pick up, put down, shake, etc, objects. Would add a whole new aspect to dungeon puzzles, etc.

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

If GTA DS is #1 on metacritic for all DS games, I think take two will expect sales of at least a couple million worldwide.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

On Falafelkid's blog, he says that GTA will come to the wii if the chinatown one sells well on the DS. Sounds like another test.

It's bad enough Capcom keeps giving Wii owners 'tests' by releasing side games on the system and seeing how they perform before they commit to what Wii owners really want (and then not doing so), but now Rockstar are apparently testing Wii owners by releasing a game on another system entirely?

Nothing has ever made more sense.

If GTA DS is #1 on metacritic for all DS games, I think take two will expect sales of at least a couple million worldwide.

Well, it debuted at no.5 in The Second Largest Videogame Market in the World, so that's something (I guess?).

 

[Tobor]

GTA Wii is coming. In R* Leeds we trust.

 

[Vinci]

GTA Wii is coming. In R* Leeds we trust.

Whatever. I don't see why it's important one way or another.

 

[donny2112]

I have to wonder what the benchmark is for GTA DS to consider it to "sell well." 2 million? 5 million? 10 million?

I can easily see 3 million.

Probably around PSP GTA:LCS levels or higher. 3 million sounds about right. I have no idea how likely it is to reach that, though. I just don't know if DS's non-Japanese userbase is diverse enough to garner those kind of sales.

Whatever. I don't see why it's important one way or another.

It's important. It may not be important to you, and it may not be important to me. However a well-received GTA Wii game would go a long way for Nintendo in the Western development market, in my opinion.

 

[Vinci]

It's important. It may not be important to you, and it may not be important to me. However a well-received GTA Wii game would go a long way for Nintendo in the Western development market, in my opinion.

You're talking about, what, a port of GTA4 or an original GTA title for the system?

 

[Sadist]

You're talking about, what, a port of GTA4 or an original GTA title for the system?

I think he means an original GTA game. And I have to agree with Donny. What if this title sells 3 to 5 million copies? I think several developers/publishers would scratch their heads and say: "hey guys, thats pretty impressive. Lets have a crack at Wii development for a change."

 

[donny2112]

You're talking about, what, a port of GTA4 or an original GTA title for the system?

Most likely an upgraded port of one of the PS2 games (cheaper to do) or an original GTA not on the scale of a GTAIV. As long as it's well-received (i.e. accepted) by the gaming public/journalists and sells well, it could go a long way to affecting how Western developers view the Wii.

I think several developers/publishers would scratch their heads and say: "hey guys, thats pretty impressive. Lets have a crack at Wii development for a change."

Exactly. It would help to break the Wii stereotype. As much as that GameTrailers developer was off his rocker on specifics, the general idea of a "core" type game selling a lot on the Wii being used to break stereotypes is a sound one.

 

[Spiegel]

Probably around PSP GTA:LCS levels or higher. 3 million sounds about right. I have no idea how likely it is to reach that, though. I just don't know if DS's non-Japanese userbase is diverse enough to garner those kind of sales.

GTA:LCS is at 3 million between USA (2 million LTD as of October 08), UK (806k LTD as of February 09) and Japan (150k LTD)

I'd say it's closer to 4 million sold worldwide at least.

But yeah, 3 million is probably higher of what GTA:VCS has sold LTD

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

You guys really think Star Ocean bombed because of goofy designs?

360 gamers don't care about Japanese centric games. Get that in your head and shit will be easier to swallow.

Fixed. I mean face it the userbase on the 360 couldn't give a damn about these games. It's like trying to sell a World War II Bloody "M" Rated Tactical Shooter on the Wii. It just doesn't work unless you have some strong ass marketing or the game gets strong word of mouth (Hello "Lost Odyessy").

Why are people surprised about Star Ocean? The last one sold like 1.3 million on system with 5 times the install base

Because this applies to the sales decline of Metal Gear Solid 4 from Metal Gear Solid 3 and Devil May Cry 4 to Devil May Cry 3...

The point still stands that the series has never had a history of doing fantastic numbers. This one is no different.

1.3 Million for an RPG isn't fantastic? Not to mention THIS amount of decline is just inexcusable.

 

[kswiston]

RE Jrpg sales:

For titles like Tales of Vesperia or SO4 which sold poorly on the 360 in Japan to begin with, I agree that 100k sales in North America is pretty horrible. Even if most HD Jrpgs are a lot cheaper to develop than something like Fallout 3, I doubt Square Enix or Namco are going to recoup their costs when worldwide sales are 300-400k. Given that no 360 game is ever going to break 300k in Japan when the system's install base has yet to clear 1 million units, these devs were obviously hoping to make up for low japanese sales elsewhere and that isn't happening.

That said, is 100-200k really that bad for some of those DS jrpgs? Take DQIV/V for DS. Sure they will only manage to sell 50-100k a piece LTD in the US, but both games were well past 1 million copies sold before they ever left Japan. Since Square Enix made back its dev costs a long time ago, the US releases only have to cover the localization costs to be worth the effort.

I have no clue how much it costs to localize a game such as Dragon Quest IV DS, but assuming S-E is getting $10 on every $40 title after manufacturing/shipping costs, 70k sales still nets them $700k. Does it really cost more than $700k to localize a DS title? They spent next to nothing on advertising.

My guess is that a relatively few units need to be sold to cover localization costs, which is why Square Enix continues to localize DS titles like Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume. After 4 years of releasing DS titles, S-E MUST know that DS titles without the words Final Fantasy in their name are lucky to break 100-150k sales LTD. If that level of sales was not enough to cover localization costs, I doubt they would have bothered releasing half of the portable titles that they have to date.

 

[Vinci]

Most likely an upgraded port of one of the PS2 games (cheaper to do) or an original GTA not on the scale of a GTAIV. As long as it's well-received (i.e. accepted) by the gaming public/journalists and sells well, it could go a long way to affecting how Western developers view the Wii.

Of course that's assuming Rockstar would put any real effort into the thing and not simply tack on motion controls.

Exactly. It would help to break the Wii stereotype. As much as that GameTrailers developer was off his rocker on specifics, the general idea of a "core" type game selling a lot on the Wii being used to break stereotypes is a sound one.

The question is whether they want it broken or not. I think developers simply don't like the system - all these tests are, IMO, are attempts for some easy cash to be used elsewhere.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Because this applies to the sales decline of Metal Gear Solid 4 from Metal Gear Solid 3 and Devil May Cry 4 to Devil May Cry 3...

How much more did MGS3 sell compared to 4?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

It's already in development, one of the Rockstar studios formed a Wii development group not too long ago.

Rockstar doesn't necessarily imply GTA. They've been releasing non-GTA products on GameCube and Wii for years.

 

[Version 3.0]

I think he means an original GTA game. And I have to agree with Donny. What if this title sells 3 to 5 million copies? I think several developers/publishers would scratch their heads and say: "hey guys, thats pretty impressive. Lets have a crack at Wii development for a change."

I don't think it'd change anything. As sad, stupid, and frustrating as it is that developers shun the Wii, I don't see it changing. A GTA game that sells great on the Wii would just become another exception. It's so easy to make excuses, and "Well that's <insert big franchise>, it always sells well" is the easiest excuse of them all.

Publishers are the ones who are finally realizing that they're missing out on the Wii, and they still don't seem to be targeting the wide-open genres of "hardcore" games. But publishers are motivated by money. Developers should've been on board long since, if they had any creative ideas about how to use the Wii.

 

[kswiston]

How much more did MGS3 sell compared to 4?

I think MGS4 has shipped more copies than MGS3 by this point, but they are close. The point he was trying to make was that differences in installed user bases do not explain the drop off in Star Ocean 4 sales from Star Ocean 3 sales. Plenty of games released on one or both HD systems have seen sales comparable to what their predecessor saw on the PS2, despite the fact that the PS2 has about 2.5 times the installed base of both HD consoles combined.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I think MGS4 has shipped more copies than MGS3 by this point, but they are close. The point he was trying to make was that differences in installed user bases do not explain the drop off in Star Ocean 4 sales from Star Ocean 3 sales. Plenty of games released on one or both HD systems have seen sales comparable to what their predecessor saw on the PS2, despite the fact that the PS2 has about 2.5 times the installed base of both HD consoles combined.

Oh yeah your right it definitely doesn't. That is a interesting point.

 

[Sadist]

I don't think it'd change anything. As sad, stupid, and frustrating as it is that developers shun the Wii, I don't see it changing. A GTA game that sells great on the Wii would just become another exception. It's so easy to make excuses, and "Well that's <insert big franchise>, it always sells well" is the easiest excuse of them all.

Publishers are the ones who are finally realizing that they're missing out on the Wii, and they still don't seem to be targeting the wide-open genres of "hardcore" games. But publishers are motivated by money. Developers should've been on board long since, if they had any creative ideas about how to use the Wii.

That could happen as well.

 

[My6cats]

There are many ways to define "best" (compared to other versions, compared to other Wii 3rd party titles, compared to Nintendo titles, etc...), but suffice to say that when 3rd party titles of major games have been released, they sell really, really well (unless it's an absolute crap port like Dead Rising).

Lego Star Wars, Force Unleashed, Guitar Hero, RE:4, COD3, World at War, etc...

They all sold a respectable amount (and many times shown long legs) not because they necessarily took advantage of a specific Wii features - but by the very nature of being released at all.

All those big sellers had a easy PS2 port or Gamecube port to use as a basis. I doubt non of those were made from the ground up from the wii. I know all of these Lego Star Wars, Force Unleashed, Guitar Hero, RE:4, COD3 had either a PS2, Gamecube or Original xbox port and all developers did was just add waggle to them. Capcom probaly put more effert into Dead Rising: chop till you drop then most of the companies did for the games you listed.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Lulz at people complaining about JRPG's of this generation :lol . Please keep buying anything that came out in the past 2 years that says "Atlus" on the box for your PS2, and buy a Nintendo DS. The JRPG line-up for this generation destroys the previous.

OK, as far as the "360 owners don't care about JRPGs", I think Lost Odyssey disproves that as an end-all, be-all analysis of the struggles of recent titles like Infinite Undiscovery, Last Remnant and SO4. I would agree that JRPGs on the whole aren't nearly as popular on the platform as shooters, action games, racers, sports or WRPGs, but the"bomba" of SO4 and the other games I;ve mentioned I believe is more due to the games themselves. Whether it's mediocre word of mouth or rampant talk of bugs and glitches, or whether it's SO4 and relies on heavy otaku-centric cliches and content (and the "otaku" audience on the whole is in decline in recent times in the uS, as evidenced by the struggles of the anime industry), I don't think the current crop of 360 JRPGs on the whole does any sort of justice to how good the best games in the genre can be.

So despite every other game bombing just a single ray of light (that didn't even perform that spectacularly) disproves everything? Really? Not to mention that unlike most Wii third party core games all these games were heavily pushed in advertising.

I'm not saying that JRPG's can't sell on the 360 but I truly do think it isn't the right platform for it (I mean hell at this rate "Star Ocean 4" will end up selling as much as "The World Ends With You". Though personally I don't think it's entirely the 360's fault but more so the change in consumers tastes this generation. It seems like most game that aren't built off a previously Western centric big franchise or doesn't involve guns don't fair too well on the high end platforms.

And as for your quality argument...STAR OCEAN 3 WAS THE BEST SELLING IN THE SERIES...

Eh, the issue is JRPGs don't necessarily sell so hot on the Wii either.

Well so far only 4 have been released which all of them have done spectacularly besides 1 (Opoona). I mean Tales of DOTNW has outsold nearly every 360 JRPG alone.

Symphonia 2.

Which is a spin-off that has performed better then all the 360 JRPG's but Lost Odyessy and Blue Dragon.

And there is where the game will most likely sell well after a few months (just as every Sega game does when it drops $10-20). We will see it hit $39 soon and if not then its because its selling well (Sega knows when to subsidize the price to get it moving)

People here whine and cry about it but that is how Sega does business, nobody cared that Sonic and the Secret Rings sold most of its product when it dropped to $29 or when Mario and Sonic Olympics moved up the charts when Target and Best Buy initiated a $39 special promotion

NASCAR Kart Racers is in the Top 10 because its a excellent Mario Kart clone and retails for $39, Lego Star Wars Wii is in the Top 20 because its $19.99, Jillian Fitness is $39.99 as is My Fitness Coach

Shaun White shot up the charts when Target ran their special edition at $39.99 and then it sold so well they price dropped the PS3 and 360 versions to a similar price point to get them moving

GAffers need to learn the difference between a price drop to get stock moving in a bad economy and a price collapse to get rid of excess stock for a bomba

I really hope this trend becomes standard. I can't stand this $50 for a game bullshit. And to think some people play $60!

No I think it's that nobody bothers to really read when you chime in. Your effort is there, but it's more of a struggle to try really hard to be right. It's admirable, I suppose, but a bit tiring.

I'm glad Overkill is selling well overseas, but the fact reminds that 45k isn't even going to cover the marketing expenses Sega has spent on the title prelaunch. This title was meant to be more frontloaded, it's the way the publisher choose to take it to market. To say 'wait for a price drop' is a bit of a stretch, do you really think the accounting and finance team at Sega is going to create different success metrics just for their M rated Wii titles? Their ROI must have been pretty bad the first month. And the constant comparisons so their non-marketing ports is quite far from an apples to apples comparison: Overkill is meant to capitalize on that foundation and grow the segment, not repeat its trends.

Good point. Whether it will end up selling "well" or even "great" in the long run doesn't really matter. It's obvious that SEGA wanted those "immediate profits" other games get on the PS3/360.

I think third parties just waited too long. After 2+ years of releasing nothing but minigames and kiddie crap, do they really think now they can just start putting out some "core" games and they'll just sell? Most of the audience for these games moved on a long time ago. Expect similarly disappointing results for Madworld and The Conduit. The real loser in all this is Sega, because they have put genuine effort into their Wii games. Unfortunately, as we've all learned, Sega alone cannot keep a console afloat.

Uh...no.

Especially when:

A. The game is doing wonders in Europe

B. House of the Dead 2 + 3 performed so well

C. It's a lightgun game at $50.

Holy shit at the Wii gaming talk from this dev on Invisible Walls. Could he be more biased and uninformed.

Nothing sells on Wii save Nintendo and Petz. Wii games never make back their budgets. Wii games are not cost effective. Wii has a lower attach rate than PS3.

What the what. Is this how many people in the industry see the Wii? Talk starts around 5 minutes in.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/46982.html

I'm interested in sales ages thoughts on this, but didnt think it deserved a thread. Also good for a laugh and a facepalm.

Gametrailers always has the most pathetic content ever. And I'm not even saying that based on this. The atrocity known as "The Bonus Round" alone confirmed this for me.

Star Ocean 4 had absolutely nothing going for it. No word of mouth whatsoever, no marketing, no press coverage, no buzz, a fatigued, overserved market who had just received a flood of RPGs only a few months prior, a heavily competitive release month with several high-profile, eclipsing titles....literally nothing going for it.

:lol

Can somebody confirm if these are legit NPD numbers? They certainly look alright:

If true...

The World Ends With You - 172k
No More Heroes - 208k
Odin Sphere - 149k
Persona 4 - 123k
SMT: Devil Summoner - 43k
SMT: Digital Devil Saga 1 - 51k
SMT: Digital Devil Saga 2 - 43k
SMT: Nocturne - 60k
Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney - 117k
Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney: Justice for All - 110k
Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations - 92k

Go Go Go!

Eternal Sonata - 98k (360), 33k (PS3)
Battle Fantasia - 4,704
Tales of Vesperia - 107k
The Last Remnant 118k
Viva Pinata 2 - 80k
Banjo: Nuts & Bolts - 154k
Valkyria Chronicles - 74k
Folklore - 109k


Ugh. Now I'm not trying to sound bias as I've only listed PS3/360 games (I am aware that some Wii games underperformed too) but it just saddens me that when games try to break the mold or step outside of the usual releases they get hit pretty hard.

So the problem with some jRPG bombing might be the genre and not the platform?

In what mind did Persona 4 and especially Odin Sphere performed anything lower then "Great"? Just look at how the previous Atlus titles have sold and you'll see that they're amongst the best selling Atlus RPG's.

Quoted for so much damn truth.

Remember that even in the "golden days" of JRPG's, games were bombing left and right. Why do you think Parasite Eve moved from JRPG to action game? Why do you think we haven't got any "Chrono" games since Chrono Cross?

Only Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, and Poke'mon have been the only "big" JRPG's in the West. Maybe a few other thuds like "Parasite Eve" and "Star Ocean III" but nothing truly "mainstream".

I heard once that the minimum press run for X360 games is 50k units. If I were to assume this was true, there would be 45,296 unsold copies at retailers or Aksys HQ.

Ugh. :/

You know who I partly blame for the lack of decent "core" games on Wii?

Nintendo.

if you are a platform holder then you are typically the company most responsible for your platform's image and reception. If Nintendo can't even be bothered to bring some of their more mature "core" games to the US (Fatal Frame, Disaster etc) then what message does that send out across the board as to what you think your platform is and what content it should have?

Now that's not excusing anything others are doing, clearly the huge amount of absolute shit released on the Wii is a sign of a quick cash in mentality with only a small few who try to create something unique and appealing to any "core" gamers who own the system (and Wii owners should want unique quality experiences, ala Mad World, not just downgrades of games from the other platforms), but Nintendo as the platform owner are not doing their part and helping set this tone. Maybe while Nintendo's main Japanese teams develop their first party offerings it could be useful for the other regional offices to try and localize some of the content we're not getting and reach out to the 3rd parties in the same way MS did to secure additional support for some new Wii exclusive killer apps.

Again, before I get a shitstorm of hate, I am not excusing the activities of 3rd parties, but Nintendo's leadership role has to be called somewhat into question here.

I agree that it is Nintendo's fault, but not totally in this light. I blame Nintendo's third party relations. Just look at what Microsoft does for example. They make deals with Square-Enix and Namco to bring their mainline series and new IP's straight to their platform as well as make deals to have a more attractive version of the game (GTA IV Lost and Damned). Nintendo is just exploring this now. Yes Dragon Quest X, Monster Hunter 3, and GTA: CTW is a step up. But they have a LONG ass way to go to get to par.

How much more did MGS3 sell compared to 4?

It sold less then MGS4.

I think MGS4 has shipped more copies than MGS3 by this point, but they are close. The point he was trying to make was that differences in installed user bases do not explain the drop off in Star Ocean 4 sales from Star Ocean 3 sales. Plenty of games released on one or both HD systems have seen sales comparable to what their predecessor saw on the PS2, despite the fact that the PS2 has about 2.5 times the installed base of both HD consoles combined.

Thanks. Couldn't have explained it better myself.

 

[BishopLamont]

If Rockstar is willing to make a GTA for DS, I don't see why they wouldn't make one for the Wii. I bet GTA:CW sales will beat out the PSP versions at least in due time.

 

[Opiate]

Combining several recent posts in this thread, I think the fundamental difference in the way Nintendo operates is also a leading cause of the current environment. Specifically, Nintendo clearly works to find underserved markets and exploit those markets because they offer the highest potential profit margins due to less competition.

That sounds great when you just say it like that, but the downside to such an approach is that it's very risky. Because there aren't reams of data available to establish buying trends -- by definition of "an underserved market," there cannot be such data -- it's very challenging to know what works and what does not. Well established markets, while more expensive and less profitable, are also much safer: for example, if you put enough money and marketing behind a FPS for the PS3/360, it's very likely it will do well. At this point, what consumers want out of a shooter is very well understood, and by and large you simply need to put up the funding to create a competitive product.

We've all had this discussion before, I think, but for my post here, it's only a lead in to my real point: how this affects the Wii market. I'm sure Nintendo executives are frustrated that other companies have not come in to fill the "hardcore" base that is clearly left open on their system. It is the very definition of an underserved market: a system with a massive install base that nonetheless has very limited competition in the arena. From Nintendo's perspective, this is a missed opportunity to score big for third parties. They view underserved markets as opportunities. To third parties, these are untested waters, and they won't dip in until the it becomes abundantly clear through several succesful iterations of product that they won't get burned. Third parties view underserved markets as untested markets, and thus dangerous ones.

 

[BishopLamont]

I think the people who went out and bought a Wii and Zelda on day 1 proves that there exists a large market for core titles, add every other big core game from Nintendo and it becomes abundantly clear. Hell just look at the sales for all the big multiplatform games that has a Wii version, they sell quite well. I'm still scratching my head as to why third parties are still so hesitant to make more games for the Wii.

 

[lowlylowlycook]

I think the people who went out and bought a Wii and Zelda on day 1 proves that there exists a large market for core titles, add every other big core game from Nintendo and it becomes abundantly clear. Hell just look at the sales for all the big multiplatform games that has a Wii version, they sell quite well. I'm still scratching my head as to why third parties are still so hesitant to make more games for the Wii.

Obviously they somehow think that the 1st/3rd party distinction matters. Which is odd since I doubt more than a few percent of the potential customers are even aware of it.

 

[Count Dookkake]

We are now closer to my dream of GTA: Drive-By for the Wii.

Zapper and Wheel sold separately.

Imagine the fun of driving around the different versions of the GTA universe, blasting fools. It is interesting to see how attitudes about GTA on the Wii have changed since I first daydreamed this bit of silliness.

 

[donny2112]

GTA:LCS is at 3 million between USA (2 million LTD as of October 08), UK (806k LTD as of February 09) and Japan (150k LTD)

I'd say it's closer to 4 million sold worldwide at least.

Ah. I was thinking the U.S. total was still ~1.5million, so, yeah, 4 million sounds more reasonable. If the DS version sold that much, I'd say that's a pretty positive test result. :lol

I'm sure Nintendo executives are frustrated that other companies have not come in to fill the "hardcore" base that is clearly left open on their system. It is the very definition of an underserved market: a system with a massive install base that nonetheless has very limited competition in the arena. From Nintendo's perspective, this is a missed opportunity to score big for third parties. They view underserved markets as opportunities. To third parties, these are untested waters, and they won't dip in until the it becomes abundantly clear through several succesful iterations of product that they won't get burned. Third parties view underserved markets as untested markets, and thus dangerous ones.

Nintendo has already started to step in and fill this underserved market, as well. Sakurai's new Nintendo studio is designed to make core-type games. Nintendo is finding an underserved traditional market on its console designed to appeal to an underserved nontraditional market. What's the next degree of term for making money after "hand over fist"?

 

[Mantorok]

On Falafelkid's blog, he says that GTA will come to the wii if the chinatown one sells well on the DS. Sounds like another test.

:lol

Man, this test malarky is getting out of hand.

 

[DDayton]

Who exactly is going to buy a Bioshock and Fallout 3 Wii??

(waves)

Seriously any gamer who doesn't have a PS3 or 360 at this point cannot be taken serious as a retail customer. If they are that stingy about money or in such dire financial straights that they cannot afford an HD console at this point, they are simply not valuable customers. Period.

Odd. I rather thought companies liked my money.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Nintendo has already started to step in and fill this underserved market, as well. Sakurai's new Nintendo studio is designed to make core-type games. Nintendo is finding an underserved traditional market on its console designed to appeal to an underserved nontraditional market. What's the next degree of term for making money after "hand over fist"?

My theory for a while has been that Nintendo planned to handle the hard parts - the new untested markets - and leave the core games to the third parties that were used to serving those core markets. I guess they had too much faith in 3rd parties to take advantage of the situation.

 

[farnham]

why are people saying bioshock wii is impossible when irrational is doing bioshock iphone..?

 

[Mantorok]

My theory for a while has been that Nintendo planned to handle the hard parts - the new untested markets - and leave the core games to the third parties that were used to serving those core markets. I guess they had too much faith in 3rd parties to take advantage of the situation.

Yeah I always thought Nintendo were making way for 3rd parties as in the past 3rd party titles were having to compete with some top-tier 1st party titles - making it difficult to garner respectable sales.

Shame it's backfired, although it's not really Nintendos fault given some of a trashy efforts we've witnessed over the last 2 years. Things do seem to be improving though, slowly.

 

[Sadist]

why are people saying bioshock wii is impossible when irrational is doing bioshock iphone..?

Because there is no Bioshock for Wii announced.

 

[Vinci]

Nintendo has already started to step in and fill this underserved market, as well. Sakurai's new Nintendo studio is designed to make core-type games. Nintendo is finding an underserved traditional market on its console designed to appeal to an underserved nontraditional market. What's the next degree of term for making money after "hand over fist"?

'Iwata: [laughs]' is pretty much the only thing I can think of.

Part of me is starting to imagine that this whole generation is, in fact, seeing the final real split between those who imagine themselves artists producing works of art and those who see themselves as toy-makers creating toys.

Frankly, I think the toy-makers have the right perspective so I'm not surprised to see them kicking the hell out of everyone.

[Sorry if that seems random: The true classification of gaming has been bugging me lately.]

 

[Shin Johnpv]

My theory for a while has been that Nintendo planned to handle the hard parts - the new untested markets - and leave the core games to the third parties that were used to serving those core markets. I guess they had too much faith in 3rd parties to take advantage of the situation.

The problem is that when Nintendo releases "Core" games 3rd parties complain "We can't compete with Nintendo!". When Nintendo doesn't release "Core" games 3rd parties go "We were just following Nintendo's lead!" They're basically damned if they do and damned if they don't. Look at Nintendo's output in the first what 18 - 24 months of the system, Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Wario, Mario Kart, and Smash Bros. All "Core" games, all released in the shortest window ever for a Nintendo system. Then Nintendo gives them this huge window of opportunity, no Nintendo "Core" titles coming for a while, and NOT ONE of them steps up with anything.

 

[donny2112]

[Sorry if that seems random: The true classification of gaming has been toying with me a bit as of late.]

Golf clap.



Edit: I found it more entertaining pre-edit.

 

[Grecco]

On Falafelkid's blog, he says that GTA will come to the wii if the chinatown one sells well on the DS. Sounds like another test.

who is falafell kid and seccond the DS and Wii demographics dont cross over 100 percent. Thats kind of a silly test.

 

[Vinci]

Golf clap.



Edit: I found it more entertaining pre-edit.

Yeah, yeah. :lol

 

[Son of Godzilla]

:lol

Man, this test malarky is getting out of hand.

RE4 was a test to see if the "test" line would fly.

 

[[Nintex]]

who is falafell kid and seccond the DS and Wii demographics dont cross over 100 percent. Thats kind of a silly test.

Falafel kid is the last remaining "Revolution" blogger. He's like stuck in a timewarp and still blogging bullshit.

 

[Vinci]

RE4 was a test to see if the "test" line would fly.

Which is why I no longer believe in tests. The wife and I have a child, I'm telling the kid, "Teachers and tests are full of shit. I took a test once ... "

Gazes sadly over at RE4 Wii Edition and RE:UC cases.

"Well, twice."

 

[Flyguy]

nm

 

[Narcosis]

So despite every other game bombing just a single ray of light (that didn't even perform that spectacularly) disproves everything? Really? Not to mention that unlike most Wii third party core games all these games were heavily pushed in advertising.

My point was that easy cop-out answers, especially in GAF's NPD threads, have constantly been pointed out as extremely flawed and based on misinformation, lack of information, or willful ignorance. Just like "Wii doesn't sell 3rd party games" or similar disproved memes, the idea that JRPGs can't sell well on the 360 because the userbase is all about brown and grey bald space marines shooting things is pretty broad and when it takes no account of the retail appeal of the specific titles in their own merits, then yeah, I think there's a problem.

For whatever it's worth, Lost Odyssey as far as I'm concerned does prove that 360 owners will buy a JRPG, and I do think there needs to be some mention of the quality of the other games possibly affecting sales. How many people skipped on IU or Last remnant because they heard about glitches or flawed design? If we accept the notion that the 360 audience is "hardcore", then it would be fair to say the userbase is generally pretty informed on new game releases right? If every review mentions buggy design and gives the games scores 2-4 points lower than other AAA blockbusters releasing in the same period, or if every internet discussion mentions it, then how well does that bode for appeal of your game? Word of mouth can be a very powerful tool either for or against you.

I'm not denying that the usual western style genres don't have an inherently higher appeal and success rate on the 360, but broad dismissals never seem to be grounded in much reality, and that's why I was saying LO disproves "JRPGs don't sell on 360" as a generic auto-response to sales of certain games.

 

[Opiate]

Ah. I was thinking the U.S. total was still ~1.5million, so, yeah, 4 million sounds more reasonable. If the DS version sold that much, I'd say that's a pretty positive test result. :lol



Nintendo has already started to step in and fill this underserved market, as well. Sakurai's new Nintendo studio is designed to make core-type games. Nintendo is finding an underserved traditional market on its console designed to appeal to an underserved nontraditional market. What's the next degree of term for making money after "hand over fist"?

This is news to me. The Smash Brothers guy is a Nintendo employee again? He had left the company, yes?

 

[HK-47]

You forgot Mario and Golden Sun on your list of RPGs that sell well in the west

 

[poppabk]

Part of me is starting to imagine that this whole generation is, in fact, seeing the final real split between those who imagine themselves artists producing works of art and those who see themselves as toy-makers creating toys.

I think it is more a split between those who see themselves as making interactive movies and those who see themselves as making toys.

 

[Stumpokapow]

This is news to me. The Smash Brothers guy is a Nintendo employee again? He had left the company, yes?

yes. he had his own shell company called sora which would contract employees to work on their games.

then nintendo bought him back and opened a studio called project sora with its own staff.