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Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

N

Norris1020

Member
These new Vizio's are really confusing. I'm going to be upgrading from my 07 720p lcd Samsung and I've been following Vizio for a couple years. Obviously I'm not on the cutting edge of TV's so I didn't need the P series. The problem is their models are confusing me now, I got that P was the best and D was the budget model. I had been planning to get an E for a while now and their website says its 4K but Bestbuy and other websites are showing the E as 1080P and the D series is shown as 4K? Did they make both a 4K and 1080 version of E and D series?
 
ACH1LL3US

ACH1LL3US

Member
Ok gentlemen, I went to another Best Buy ( some super nice guys there Matt and Cooper at the Pineville Best Buy in Charlotte, NC, they let me do this to all these oleds )and brought my Leo Bodnar input lag tester. I tested almost all of the LG oled's out there for 2015 and 2016 including the following tv's: 55B6, 65B6, 65EF9500, 55EG9100, 65eg9600, 55ec9300 and 55C6

All tvs were put into Home Mode, pixel shift turned off and I tried both game mode with all "enhancements " off and also tried PC input with Game Mode.


55B6 Firmware 3.10.16

Game Mode ( 54.4ms ):

IMG_2472 by CoolHandsM3, on Flickr


PC Mode with Game Mode ( 62.6ms) :


IMG_2473 by CoolHandsM3, on Flickr

65B6 Firmware 3.10.16

Game Mode (54.2ms):

IMG_2474 by CoolHandsM3, on Flickr


PC Mode with Game Mode ( 62.2ms) :

IMG_2475 by CoolHandsM3, on Flickr


55C6

Game Mode ( 34.4ms ):



PC Mode with Game Mode ( 48.3ms ):

55EG9100

Game Mode ( 48.2ms ):



PC Mode with Game Mode ( 31.2ms ):

IMG_2478 by CoolHandsM3, on Flickr


65EF9500 Firmware 3.01.15

Game Mode ( 55.6ms ):

IMG_2476 by CoolHandsM3, on Flickr


PC Mode with Game Mode ( 61.7ms ):



65EG9600

Game Mode ( 53.8ms ):


55ec9300 Firmware 3.01.55

PC Mode with Game Mode ( 29.6ms )

IMG_22491 by CoolHandsM3, on Flickr

Some lessons we can take away here.

1: PC mode on 4k oled tv's have much higher lag than being in standard game mode.

2: PC mode on 1080p Oled's give lowest lag.

3: Those saying the 65 and 55 B6 has no lag or is significantly better than the eg9600 or ef9500... sadly that is not true.

4: Lag over 50ms is beyond what I can tolerate, input lag is subjective so keep that in mind.

5: The 55c6 is the lowest lag available for a 4k Oled.

6: My lag tester is not broken, kinda bummed alot of people just didn't want to believe the numbers I got :/
I think I got most of the oled's out there right now , any questions please let me know :)

7: PC mode is changing input icon to PC, game mode means game picture mode.

Hope this helps!
 
M

MrJames

Member
LOL, who didn't believe you?

Oh let me guess, you posted these figures in the various owners threads on AVF/AVS? I guess some major Kool-aid drinkers don't want to read that their precious isn't up to snuff.

Thanks for doing all that work.
 
Y

Yappadappadu

Member
Yeah, the E6 and G6 have been measured with the same input lag results as the C6.
Guess I'll give it a go with my own Leo Bodnar device and my E6.
I don't remember any results for the B6, so if the 54,2 ms number is true, then that's disappointing.
 
ACH1LL3US

ACH1LL3US

Member
MrJames said:
LOL, who didn't believe you?

Oh let me guess, you posted these figures in the various owners threads on AVF/AVS? I guess some major Kool-aid drinkers don't want to read that their precious isn't up to snuff.

Thanks for doing all that work.
Click to expand...

Yea on avforums and avsforums, they claimed my tester was broken and that their b6 had no lag....smh. Also some said their ef9500 had way more lag but this clearly debunks that!

I am super sensitive to lag and really hate it!! Whats the point to play a game if it doesn't feel right?

Dead said:
isnt the lag on e6 and g6 ~35ms
Click to expand...


Yup, its the same as the c6, probably the same soc.
 
O

Omlagus

Member
torontoml said:
So I'm not really looking to upgrade, but is there anywhere to get the Vizio p series in Canada?
Click to expand...

Doesn't look like they've made it up here yet. Best Buy only shows D, E and M series. Same with Costco. Even the Vizio site doesn't have buying info for Canada. They haven't been out all that long in the States (couple of months) so I guess they will launch here later in the year.
 
M

MrJames

Member
Pulled out my tester again and played with the settings on my 65E6. Tested the modes I would typically use.

Everything disabled.

ISF bright/dark and simulated HDR mode: 50-51ms

Game: 33-34ms

Changing input name to PC gave the same readings. Enabling HDMI Deep Color caused readings to jump around a bit but typically added about 4-7ms on each mode when stable.

Not sure how accurate that simulated HDR reading will be compared to an actual HDR signal from Gears/Forza. We would need a lag tester that can send a true HDR signal to the display for measurement. If HDR brings a display out of game mode then HDR gaming could get really laggy depending on what options can and can't be disabled in that mode.
 
I

irriadin

Member
Storm Raider said:
Where's the VIZIO P65 on Best Buy?!

Sold out and no shipping options online

Went into store and the guy kept jerking off to his Sony TV
Click to expand...

I know right?! I wanted to get it with that $200 off deal, even signed up for the Best Buy credit card, only to find out the TV was impossible to purchase. Really dumb.

I'm hoping that it'll go back on sale (and be purchasable) soon. If not that, that actual stores get it in-stock.
 
H

hitgirl

Member
What's the best way to test how a TV handles 24p content? I downsized form a Sony 950B to a Sony 600B and wanted to test how it handles 24p. I run movies through MPC-HC and it will also change the framerate to match the content on launch. Is there a good movie with a long pan?
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
Blackvette94 said:
Yea on avforums and avsforums, they claimed my tester was broken and that their b6 had no lag....smh. Also some said their ef9500 had way more lag but this clearly debunks that!

I am super sensitive to lag and really hate it!! Whats the point to play a game if it doesn't feel right?
Click to expand...

I went through that shit at AVS forum eight years ago with the Pioneer Kuros and Rock Band 2 lag testing using the optical sensor, and later using camera and on-screen timers, etc.

Was told that I was full of shit, incompetent, using bad hardware, the whole nine yards. I dared to say that the Kuro had a minimum of three frames of lag, proved it, and was branded a fool and harassed over it.

Fuck AVS, it's a goddamn sewer. And fuck fanboy gamers who have to try to convince themselves and the world that everything that they own is perfect.
 
ACH1LL3US

ACH1LL3US

Member
Beer Monkey said:
I went through that shit at AVS forum eight years ago with the Pioneer Kuros and Rock Band 2 lag testing using the optical sensor, and later using camera and on-screen timers, etc.

Was told that I was full of shit, incompetent, using bad hardware, the whole nine yards. I dared to say that the Kuro had a minimum of three frames of lag, proved it, and was branded a fool and harassed over it.

Fuck AVS, it's a goddamn sewer. And fuck fanboy gamers who have to try to convince themselves and the world that everything that they own is perfect.
Click to expand...

Lol, you were right on, 3 frames the kuro had! They all said it had no lag ha. See below what I posted awhile back on the kuro's:


I had the Kuro 101 and 111, both showed 60ms input lag for all three bars with the Leo Bodnar tester I have. I tried PC mode for both and they turned up a little bit higher number of 65ms ( I think due to the 4:4:4 chroma, the samsung 4k tvs have higher lag in pc mode too due to the 4:4:4 chroma, so stick to game mode for those tvs). The game controller input preference in the Kuro's didn't make any change to the lag numbers. The Kuro 1150 ( 768p panel ) that I still have shows 40ms on all three bars BUT pc mode does indeed feel better and the ABL isn't nearly as obvious in that mode yet it still shows 40ms for that. If your playing on a b6 that I showed got 54ms on the middle bar, it would make sense coming from a 9g Kuro you wouldn't feel a difference as the lag is similar. One thing to note is the tester always showed higher numbers for plasma's and all three bars were the same due to how the plasma updates it image. I would say from my personal experience of input lag, the plasma's were about one frame faster then what the lag tester showed.
 
Y

Yaari

Member
Oh that makes me very happy I went for the E6 OLED. I really thought the B6 was going to be similar in its input lag, but that turned out to be quite different.

Sucks for people that were waiting for that one though. Is the C6 any different then?
 
O

osiris3355

Banned
irriadin said:
I know right?! I wanted to get it with that $200 off deal, even signed up for the Best Buy credit card, only to find out the TV was impossible to purchase. Really dumb.

I'm hoping that it'll go back on sale (and be purchasable) soon. If not that, that actual stores get it in-stock.
Click to expand...

Samsung is probably paying best buy off to not stock them. Sony doesnt have the cash to throw around.
 
D

DJ Lushious

Member
Blackvette94 said:
Lol, you were right on, 3 frames the kuro had! They all said it had no lag ha. See below what I posted awhile back on the kuro's:


I had the Kuro 101 and 111, both showed 60ms input lag for all three bars with the Leo Bodnar tester I have. I tried PC mode for both and they turned up a little bit higher number of 65ms ( I think due to the 4:4:4 chroma, the samsung 4k tvs have higher lag in pc mode too due to the 4:4:4 chroma, so stick to game mode for those tvs). The game controller input preference in the Kuro's didn't make any change to the lag numbers. The Kuro 1150 ( 768p panel ) that I still have shows 40ms on all three bars BUT pc mode does indeed feel better and the ABL isn't nearly as obvious in that mode yet it still shows 40ms for that. If your playing on a b6 that I showed got 54ms on the middle bar, it would make sense coming from a 9g Kuro you wouldn't feel a difference as the lag is similar. One thing to note is the tester always showed higher numbers for plasma's and all three bars were the same due to how the plasma updates it image. I would say from my personal experience of input lag, the plasma's were about one frame faster then what the lag tester showed.
Click to expand...
The Pro-111fd has 60ms of lag? Dayum. I never noticed it after 8 years. Seems I'm in heaven, then, with my Vizio P65. :p
 
R

rand0mZer0

Banned
Hi everyone.

I will be moving into my new home in October and will have my own media room for the first time ever and I am in the market for an OLED TV (this will be my first OLED as well). I've heard that OLED has input lag but don't know if it's bad enough or if I would notice. I've tried watching videos on YouTube about it but can never get a feel on it since its just people playing lol.

I would like to go between 55' and 65'. Any help on which models I should narrow it down to would be appreciated.
 
ACH1LL3US

ACH1LL3US

Member
rand0mZer0 said:
Hi everyone.

I will be moving into my new home in October and will have my own media room for the first time ever and I am in the market for an OLED TV (this will be my first OLED as well). I've heard that OLED has input lag but don't know if it's bad enough or if I would notice. I've tried watching videos on YouTube about it but can never get a feel on it since its just people playing lol.

I would like to go between 55' and 65'. Any help on which models I should narrow it down to would be appreciated.
Click to expand...


Your choices of oled with the lowest lag are as follows:

65c6
55c6
55e6
65e6
65g6

All have been tested by me to be 34ms give or take a 1ms.

All are amazing tvs!! B6 looks amazing too but as of now has 54ms of lag.
 
P

PeterVenkman

Member
Think I got through the issues my B6 was having in PC mode with 4:4:4 full range Deep Color mode - bad HDMI cables. Glad it was a cheap fix that's for sure.

P.S. Alien Isolation was made for OLED. It looks like a completely different game.
 
E

ExpressGalaxy

Member
Hey guys, I was hoping I could get some insight into an exchange I'm doing.

I purchased a Vizio M50-C1 not too long ago but the screen had a problem with it. After over a month of back and forth with the customer support staff, they don't have another M50-C1 to exchange with but instead offered a VIZIO D55u-D1 as a replacement option.

Is this D series model that much better (if at all than the m50-c1)? If not, should I just try to get my money back for the M series?
 
U

ukas

Member
Ironically Supporting Fascism Is Cool Bro said:
What are the differences between b, c, e, and g on the lg oled series?
Click to expand...

G = soundbar (60w), picture on glass, 3D, ~35ms response time
E = soundbar (40w), picture on glass, 3D, ~35ms response time
B = no soundbar, no picture on glass, no 3D, ~50ms response time
C = no soundbar, no picture on glass, 3D, ~35ms response time, curved screen

That about covers it.

rtings.com has their E6 review up. http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/e6
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
ukas said:
G = soundbar (60w), picture on glass, 3D, ~35ms response time
E = soundbar (40w), picture on glass, 3D, ~35ms response time
B = no soundbar, no picture on glass, no 3D, ~50ms response time
C = no soundbar, no picture on glass, 3D, ~35ms response time, curved screen

That about covers it.

rtings.com has their E6 review up. http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/e6
Click to expand...

Thanks! How about the OLEDx5x6P versus LG 55Ex9xxx?

Like say OLED55E6P vs 55EG9500? Is the difference just 2015 vs 2016 model?
 
I

irriadin

Member
loltna34 said:
Hey guys, I was hoping I could get some insight into an exchange I'm doing.

I purchased a Vizio M50-C1 not too long ago but the screen had a problem with it. After over a month of back and forth with the customer support staff, they don't have another M50-C1 to exchange with but instead offered a VIZIO D55u-D1 as a replacement option.

Is this D series model that much better (if at all than the m50-c1)? If not, should I just try to get my money back for the M series?
Click to expand...

I'm far from an expert on this, but it seems like Vizio's D series is their budget line, according to rtings.com
 
F

Fitts

Member
Blackvette94 said:
One thing to note is the tester always showed higher numbers for plasma's and all three bars were the same due to how the plasma updates it image. I would say from my personal experience of input lag, the plasma's were about one frame faster then what the lag tester showed.
Click to expand...

Correct. The margin of error on plasmas has been proven to be 13-16ms.

Good work testing the OLEDs!
 
Y

Yappadappadu

Member
Any TVs that they scored better in the past?

Ironically Supporting Fascism Is Cool Bro said:
Thanks! How about the OLEDx5x6P versus LG 55Ex9xxx?

Like say OLED55E6P vs 55EG9500? Is the difference just 2015 vs 2016 model?
Click to expand...
If it's between those two I'd go for the one with the lower input lag.
If you were to compare with the B6 though which has about the same input lag as the 2015 sets, then I'd go for the 2015 set in case it can be found for a comparatively low price.
 
ACH1LL3US

ACH1LL3US

Member
Fitts said:
Correct. The margin of error on plasmas has been proven to be 13-16ms.

Good work testing the OLEDs!
Click to expand...


Happy to help my fellow gamers ;)

You know that I took the 55ec9300 oled I have out of pc mode with game picture mode and put it back to regular game mode and the tester was showing consistent numbers of 46ms whereas in pc mode it was changing everytime I tried it, from 29ms all the way up to 45ms and in between those two numbers.

I feel that the consistent 46ms feels alot better then the all over the place numbers that pc mode gives you. I also verified that the b6 and c6 do consistent numbers in game mode, the c6 currently has the lowest 34ms and that probably feels great compared to the 46ms I am trying to use now.
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
Yappadappadu said:
Any TVs that they scored better in the past?


If it's between those two I'd go for the one with the lower input lag.
If you were to compare with the B6 though which has about the same input lag as the 2015 sets, then I'd go for the 2015 set in case it can be found for a comparatively low price.
Click to expand...

input lag isn't an issue as this isn't going to be my gaming TV.
 
M

MazeHaze

Banned
I'm in the market for a new TV and am looking for some direction in my search. I will mostly be using it with my PC (gtx 980). Can any 4k tvs run games at 1440p 120hz? Am I better off getting a 1080p oled? Will those run at 120hz? Basically I would like to play games at a high refresh rate, and possibly also be able to watch 4k movies, though that isn't a deal breaker, framerate is more important. I'm looking for 50 inch and up in the 1-2,000 dollar price range, was considering the 65 inch Vizio P-series or the Sony 850d. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
U

ukas

Member
Yappadappadu said:
Any TVs that they scored better in the past?


If it's between those two I'd go for the one with the lower input lag.
If you were to compare with the B6 though which has about the same input lag as the 2015 sets, then I'd go for the 2015 set in case it can be found for a comparatively low price.
Click to expand...

Highest scoring tv so far. Right above the 2015 LG OLDEs.

Ironically Supporting Fascism Is Cool Bro said:
input lag isn't an issue as this isn't going to be my gaming TV.
Click to expand...

If you can afford it go for the E6. It's absolutely beautiful.
 
B

Backfoggen

Banned
I hope the E6 price comes down or I'll be able to get it cheaper at some point. The Euro price is pretty ridiculous. Even ignoring the pricing in other regions there is just a 500€ on top for the 55 inch that makes no sense. It should be 5000€.
 
L

LilJoka

Member
I have a pioneer kuro 8G, it has about 50ms input lag and I still do really good in CS GO even playing from the sofa. So I wouldn't hesitate buying the LG B6 OLED.
 
W

Wrynnax

Member
ukas said:
G = soundbar (60w), picture on glass, 3D, ~35ms response time
E = soundbar (40w), picture on glass, 3D, ~35ms response time
B = no soundbar, no picture on glass, no 3D, ~50ms response time
C = no soundbar, no picture on glass, 3D, ~35ms response time, curved screen

That about covers it.

rtings.com has their E6 review up. http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/e6
Click to expand...
E6 here i come! In september...when I get a nice bonus...must resist buying sooner...
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
ukas said:
Highest scoring tv so far. Right above the 2015 LG OLDEs.



If you can afford it go for the E6. It's absolutely beautiful.
Click to expand...

Yea the problem is I kinda want 65". Dat price tho' :(

So i was looking at the LG 65EF9500, which is cheaper than the 55E6P, 10" bigger, and very similar in terms of picture quality. I'm not even a videophile, so I suspect the extra 10" would be much more noticeable to me than the better HDR, and I might not even notice the quality differences at all
 
M

Monty Mole

Member
The 55" LG B6 OLED (European version) with firmware 03.10.23 and using input HDMI 2 is ~44ms. I took 20x readings this morning and they varied only between 43.9ms and 44.3ms, so it's very consistent. This is in Game Mode and without the PC input label.

E9edNGZ.jpg
Click to expand...

So a bit faster than the readings taken on the US B6 with the older firmware earlier in this thread. Still ~10ms higher than the C6/E6/G6 but certainly faster and more consistent than the EF950 which matches my experience.

I will take some more readings later to see how other modes, inputs and settings compare, if anyone here is interested.
 
T

Tatsumi Oga

Banned
I was talking to some people on Reddit about Scorpio, Neo and 4K and people there said it was best to not go for Samsung and Sony, since they don't support both HDR formats. It was best to wait and see if Dolby Vision or HDR10 would win.

I am in no hurry to sell my beautiful EC9300 but sadly i DO want to get a 4K TV for when Scorpio comes out. But that will happen sometime next year. There's a chance i will be able to find an affordable 4K OLED, and of course it depends on how much money i get back from selling my 9300. But if not OLED, the plan would be to look for a Samsung 4K TV. Maybe the JS8500 or successor(s) of it. But as i mentioned before, the HDR issue. What's the latest on this?
 
ACH1LL3US

ACH1LL3US

Member
Monty Mole said:
The 55" LG B6 OLED (European version) with firmware 03.10.23 and using input HDMI 2 is ~44ms. I took 20x readings this morning and they varied only between 43.9ms and 44.3ms, so it's very consistent. This is in Game Mode and without the PC input label.



So a bit faster than the readings taken on the US B6 with the older firmware earlier in this thread. Still ~10ms higher than the C6/E6/G6 but certainly faster and more consistent than the EF950 which matches my experience.

I will take some more readings later to see how other modes, inputs and settings compare, if anyone here is interested.
Click to expand...

Looking forward to you testing the other inputs, hdmi 3 on my ec9300 has the lowest lag.

Good job mate! The firmware on the US b6 I tested was 3.10.16 so its possible the newer firmware brought it down.

What really cannot be said enough is that the 2016 oleds have CONSISTENT input lag and the 2015 and 2014 oled do not. This makes a massive difference!! My ec9300 and all the other 2015 oleds I tested literally change up to 18ms each test, so these new ones being consistent are a huge win!
 
M

MrJames

Member
Tatsumi Oga said:
I was talking to some people on Reddit about Scorpio, Neo and 4K and people there said it was best to not go for Samsung and Sony, since they don't support both HDR formats. It was best to wait and see if Dolby Vision or HDR10 would win.

I am in no hurry to sell my beautiful EC9300 but sadly i DO want to get a 4K TV for when Scorpio comes out. But that will happen sometime next year. There's a chance i will be able to find an affordable 4K OLED, and of course it depends on how much money i get back from selling my 9300. But if not OLED, the plan would be to look for a Samsung 4K TV. Maybe the JS8500 or successor(s) of it. But as i mentioned before, the HDR issue. What's the latest on this?
Click to expand...

If you want to buy a 4K TV for Scorpio then wait until it's close to launch. The JS8500 and its successor will no longer be available by Fall 2017. Most of the 2017 televisions will be announced at CES next January and most will not only have been released but dropped in price by Fall.
 
P

PeterVenkman

Member
I am still getting pixel flickering on the B6 in full range color -I've tried 4 dif HDMI cables now, feeling a bit hopeless because i cannot trigger it. Sometimes I'll notice the flickering has started and unplugging the cable will reset it. Baffling.
 
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