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Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
yeah, this is actually the best setting, after playing with my E6 tonight.
The EF9500 required more de-judder/de-blur.
I would wait until reviews from avforums and hdtvtest have arrived.
After seeing digital foundry's test of input lag outside game mode for HDR gaming, i decided to buy the LG E6. 50ms seems acceptable, especially compared to how other TVs fared, and in game mode it's plenty good with its 31ms (only 2ms higher than my EG9100, which is amazing for me). It's goingo to be available soon in Italy but for 4000€ (already spotted it at Euronics), which isn't exactly cheap, so i'm going to have to wait a couple of months but i'm sure it's totally worth it.
LOL. RIP avforums. Still sounds like a great TV, but it should've been at least 2500$ cheaper. It ain't even killing other LED TVs.
Whathifi is a good website but sure, let them come. More opinions are good.
LOL. RIP avforums. Still sounds like a great TV, but it should've been at least 2500$ cheaper. It ain't even killing other LED TVs.
Whathifi is a good website but sure, let them come. More opinions are good.
OLED killer my arse.
As far as E6 in game mode goes, I don't even use game mode anymore. I use ISF Expert Bright Room instead. The input lag is not noticeable for me on either setting. It's only noticeable on Standard, which has all the junk post processing settings turned on.
I should probably get this thing calibrated though.
This might be an impossibility, but is there anything in the 40-42" range that's 4K HDR? I'm looking for something that will double as a TV for consoles and a monitor for my PC. Currently I'm using an aging 27" 1440p Dell U2711, and we have an ancient 720p Pioneer plasma in our LR (but we don't use it for anything besides cable/streaming).
I may still use the Dell as a secondary (I like having a second display for web browsing, etc.). I've taken a cursory look around, but haven't found much. Thanks in advance.
Edit: Hmm... this might be a good place to start? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FWIEO2E/?tag=neogaf0e-20 or https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BY02ZC0/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I may still use the Dell as a secondary (I like having a second display for web browsing, etc.). I've taken a cursory look around, but haven't found much. Thanks in advance.
Edit: Hmm... this might be a good place to start? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FWIEO2E/?tag=neogaf0e-20 or https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BY02ZC0/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I've got a question. So I've been looking at the Vizio M series 70" for a while now but held off when I heard about it lacking HDR10. I know it's been patched in but I read somewhere that it being patched would make it inferior to sets that natively have it, is that actually the case?
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
Art Vandilay
Member
I doubt it would be inferior, but can't say for sure. HDR10 relies on software in every TV IIRC. Dolby's HDR solution requires dedicated hardware though.
I wouldn't swap out my OLED for an LCD. Not in a million years! no matter how far Sony or whoever stretch out LCD technology, it'll never beat self-emissive display tech.
And you don't get the whole "black is actually black" hype until you use an OLED yourself and see how much of a difference it really makes. I could never go back to anything else.
If Sony want an OLED killer, they're going to have to wait for their new display technology to hit consumer level.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
yeah, I wasn't expecting it to beat out the OLED at this point.
But there was a lot of hype about it being an OLED killer.
theclosetfan
Member
Any issue with input lag? I've been looking at this TV too for the same reason--not a fan of the Samsung color, but the higher input lag reports are giving me some pause.
Caayn
Member
Welp, so in the end it's nothing more than a normal edge LCD with a fancy local dimming technique that just doesn't work quite as well in reality as it does on paper.
vivftp
Member
Something is wrong with this review. It completely flies in the face of what the 2 owners on AVS have to say about the same TV. They've both read the review and disagree with it.
Not to mention WHF also gave a better review to an older Sony model with lesser technology. No... I'm guessing either they didn't calibrate the TV properly, they're biased for some reason, or they're incompetent. Going by what others are saying on AVS and AV Forums about this sites reputation, it's definitely best to wait for more reputable places to get their hands on this TV.
Really, people are taking What Hi-Fi reviews seriously now? Their TV reviews have always been extremely shallow and shouldn't be taken seriously.
They don't calibrate the TVs they review. The fact that the reviewer suggests turning on black enhancer and advanced contrast enhancer-options on the TV and then complains about missing shadow detail should tell you enough about the credibility of the review(er). Then he complains about motion on the TV, when Sony TVs are usually considered to have excellent motion.
I'd wait for HDTVtest or avforums to review the TV before jumping to conclusions about how good ZD9 really is.
They don't calibrate the TVs they review. The fact that the reviewer suggests turning on black enhancer and advanced contrast enhancer-options on the TV and then complains about missing shadow detail should tell you enough about the credibility of the review(er). Then he complains about motion on the TV, when Sony TVs are usually considered to have excellent motion.
I'd wait for HDTVtest or avforums to review the TV before jumping to conclusions about how good ZD9 really is.
People who spent 6000$ on something are saying it's good? Well that's unexpected.
WHF never said the TV is bad. Simply that this technology (like any other, really) is not without its flaws and the TV is just too expensive for what it offers (a picture quality on par with other top LED TVs, worse for some aspects, better for others). I don't see a problem with any of these statements.
And no, they aren't incompetent.
Yeah, i followed their TVs/audio products reviews for a few years and i always found them to be pretty good, even excellent in some cases. In this case they're just saying something that many people don't want to hear.
Backfoggen
Banned
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/tx65dx902b-201608144320.htm
This HDTVtest review confirms that the Panasonic TVs are the only ones on the market allowing for game mode to be used with HDR.
Sorry.
This HDTVtest review confirms that the Panasonic TVs are the only ones on the market allowing for game mode to be used with HDR.
Only without dimming though.
Sorry.
vivftp
Member
People who spent 6000$ on something are saying it's good? Well that's unexpected.
Owner bias exists, but when every single impression I've heard on these TVs says the opposite of the negatives that WHF lists, then that brings into question their findings. This includes the owners, people who have seen the TV in stores and the people who saw the TVs at the press events. No one at all mentioned these issues.
Really? You're not questioning why they're finding poor black levels when comparing a TV that likely has thousands of individual LEDs (aka 'zones') vs. one with edge lit backlighting? Or find it odd that they're complaining about motion handling when Sony is widely regarded as having one of, if not the best motion handling around?
Yeah, no. Something is wrong there.
vivftp
Member
I haven't experienced any with Overwatch. I was worried about the 930D having a bit more input lag than the Samsungs/Vizios. A friend of mine that had the X930D for 3 months and uses it to play Battlefield, and he said there's no lag.
Bill Rizer
Member
Biggest flaw of Oled tvs are imho their unreliable pixels. I experienced pixels dying/getting stuck on five different panels on EG910. Following threads on various forums, still now and then messages appear from users that get pixels going bad on their Oleds, even after months and on the 2016 models. Ot's completely unpredictable. This is very unfortunate as bad pixels can get me literally mad, let you figure on a 4000 tv. I'm not sure I want to go again through the hassle I went into with the EG910 which I finally sold from desperation. (pq was beautiful by instance)
Haint
Member
The LG is probably fake 4K (WRGB pixel structure which is effectively 25-33% resolution reduction Vs. true 4K), and fake HDR (8 bit panel, no wide color gamut). The Sony is fake HDR (8bit panel, probably little to no expanded gamut). No one makes feature rich 40" class displays, and $700 ain't even cheap.
Haven't experienced this... I have two OLEDs, EC9300 and C6, both have no dead/stuck pixels. The EC9300 is a little over 1.5 years old.
I think it just comes down to luck. I have had pixels go bad later on with LCDs in the past.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
yeah, I would struggle to even find a dead pixel without looking for one, I think on my E6. *shrug*
This is the decision I made and I've not yet regretted it. No doubt the LG OLED models are beautiful, but I got a great deal on the KS8000, and I'd rather save the extra $1k OLED would have cost me and revisit in another four years or so when the tech and manufacturing process are a little more refined. The writing is on the wall for LED but there are benefits to that maturity right now. I wouldn't fault anyone for going either direction.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Worth pointing out that the EU Samsung KS9000 that Whathifi compares the Sony Z9 to is not the same TV as the US KS9000.
osiris3355
Banned
Rtings.com review of the new budget Sony X800D lineup is up.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x800d
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x800d
Meicyn
Gold Member
The biggest concern I've had with the KS8000 is that there are reports regarding noticeable judder. Rtings says you can get rid of it by using Auto-motion Plus set to Custom with 0s, but the problem is that said function is disabled in gaming mode.
I'm leaning more towards the Vizio P as a result.
vivftp
Member
Well since the topic of the ZD9 came up earlier in this thread, I'll post some impressions from a new owner of the 65" from AVS Forums who got his TV today. He previously owned the LG E6 OLED TV, so he's got another high end set to compare the experience against. This is what I'm talking about when I say the WHF review is questionable. Keep in mind this is an uncalibrated set, it's just what he managed to do on his own by fiddling with settings today.
This type of experience is reflected in the comments of the other 2 people over there who own this set. This is why I question WHF's findings.
This type of experience is reflected in the comments of the other 2 people over there who own this set. This is why I question WHF's findings.
I have no horse in this race, but I'm gonna side with vivftp on this.
At least give Sony the benefit of the doubt until more reviews and impressions come out.
No doubt the 2016 OLEDs are amazing, but more options and competition in the marketplace is a good thing for consumers. Let's not just turn this thread into an LG circle jerk.
There is still not a TV on sale at any price I would consider perfect for 4K HDR gaming yet.
At least give Sony the benefit of the doubt until more reviews and impressions come out.
No doubt the 2016 OLEDs are amazing, but more options and competition in the marketplace is a good thing for consumers. Let's not just turn this thread into an LG circle jerk.
There is still not a TV on sale at any price I would consider perfect for 4K HDR gaming yet.
vivftp
Member
Thanks
Indeed I think it's best to wait for the more well known and trusted review sites to get their hands on a product to get a real sense of its capabilities. Especially since they won't just post their subjective opinions, but also objective measurements taken of the product by specialized equipment. In the meantime, owner opinions will help to identify strengths and weaknesses as more people get their sets.
I'm interested to see how this tech pans out as I want to upgrade my current gaming TV which is a Sony KDL-50R550A. It's a low-mid range set and while it does the job, I want something better. I'll probably wind up waiting to see what gets announced at CES anyways, but so far these Z9 TVs are top of my choice list.
FrankNitty
Member
Im surprised people with even take one review seriously let alone that review. If it starts being a reoccurring thing in reviews of the display then I can see the concern but it's way to early.
Sony displays are generally not bad, the X900B was excellent and that was edge lit, though it had some issues, what display doesn't. The 940 was excellent, I expect the Z to be as well. If it does have issues that aren't due to the panel then it can ideally be fixed with firmware.
As for the users that own it in the AVS thread, idk they cannot even seem to accurately describe the performance of the display or provide any actual data. Or that one guy that got the HDR error message. I mean come on man lol. So I take what they say with a grain of salt also.
Really just need to get the display in the hands of a calibrator or someone that knows how with some equipment. Then we can see what it is all about.
Sony displays are generally not bad, the X900B was excellent and that was edge lit, though it had some issues, what display doesn't. The 940 was excellent, I expect the Z to be as well. If it does have issues that aren't due to the panel then it can ideally be fixed with firmware.
As for the users that own it in the AVS thread, idk they cannot even seem to accurately describe the performance of the display or provide any actual data. Or that one guy that got the HDR error message. I mean come on man lol. So I take what they say with a grain of salt also.
Really just need to get the display in the hands of a calibrator or someone that knows how with some equipment. Then we can see what it is all about.
E6 has lower input lag and 3D support. I think they are identical otherwise.
You should also take impressions after such a short amount of time with a grain of salt. I have no doubt this is a good TV but I am still far from beeing convinced it is even the best LED set. I for one am amazed that he points out the better HDR impressions when not even having both sets to compare directly.
I think the E6 has less input lag, 3D, different design, two remotes, speaker and I think I heard the OS runs a little bit better (can't confirm about the OS and just tell you that Web OS in general is a wonderful OS that runs flawless and fast on E6).
holygeesus
Banned
E6 has 3D.
TLZ
Banned
I have a 42" 1080p Panasonic plasma since 2009 and I think it has 17ms input lag. I'm still happy with my tv tbh but I want one of these new fancy 4k hdr sets with 55". The one I'm mostly going for is ks8000. Not too expensive nor cheap and with good qualities with good input lag. Only issue with it is input lag in hdr would be tripled. Turning off hdr for better input lag would defeat the purpose paying extra for hdr. If that's the case, I'd just go cheaper 4k Sammy ks6000.
Backfoggen
Banned
Hmm, weird this digitalfernsehen.de vid of some Samsung TV shows that game mode can be enabled with HDR activated. Lots of people said this wasn't possible.
https://youtu.be/SVPT9i3upME?t=369
https://youtu.be/SVPT9i3upME?t=369
Mrstriker09
Member
so is the ks8000 series good buy?
Metalstrike
Member
Rtings.com answer on KS8000 and HDR enabled input lag.
Question from user;
"Thank you so much for your in depth reviews! It has been an excellent aid in (almost) selecting a TV. I have a question regarding which TV I should select, however. I will be using the TV primarily for gaming on the Xbox One S, which supports 4k and HDR content. The seconary use is streaming and movies.. Netflix, etc. A big priority for me is being able to game at the highest quality.. so, being HDR capable while keeping a low input lag. I realize there are no HDR games out currently, however several are coming soon and I am also attempting to somewhat future proof. I was originally hands down going to go with the Vizio P Series. It seemed like the best quality for the lowest price. However, I came to realize a big issue with it (that I'm not sure you guys address). The TV's gaming input, HDMI 5, is HDMI 1.4 and therefore will not support HDR. So you can't game in HDR unless you use a different input, which has a whopping 100+ ms input lag. So, now I have moved onto the KS8000. My question is this: will this TV keep its input lag low while gaming in HDR? Is HDR enabled during game mode? And.. if not this TV, is there something else you would recommend to meet my specific needs? Or is this one the best choice for the best price? Thank you very much for your time!"
Rtings.com answer;
"That's correct, for HDR support it is necessary to use HDMI 1 - 4 on the Vizio P. We measured an input lag of 62.1ms when sending an HDR signal with 'Game Low Latency' on HDMI1 on the Vizio P. This is quite high for gaming, and will be an issue for a lot of people. The KS8000 is a good choice. We found that when sending an HDR signal, it is necessary to set the color space to 'Native' but then it successfully plays HDR content even with the 'Game' special picture mode. We measured the input lag with HDR metadata and 'Game' mode enabled to be 22.6ms."
Great news! Only a 2ms increase over non-HDR. Just maybe this will push me over the edge to get the 65" KS8000. We will know soon enough for sure when Forza Horizon 3 and Gears of War 4 come out.
Question from user;
"Thank you so much for your in depth reviews! It has been an excellent aid in (almost) selecting a TV. I have a question regarding which TV I should select, however. I will be using the TV primarily for gaming on the Xbox One S, which supports 4k and HDR content. The seconary use is streaming and movies.. Netflix, etc. A big priority for me is being able to game at the highest quality.. so, being HDR capable while keeping a low input lag. I realize there are no HDR games out currently, however several are coming soon and I am also attempting to somewhat future proof. I was originally hands down going to go with the Vizio P Series. It seemed like the best quality for the lowest price. However, I came to realize a big issue with it (that I'm not sure you guys address). The TV's gaming input, HDMI 5, is HDMI 1.4 and therefore will not support HDR. So you can't game in HDR unless you use a different input, which has a whopping 100+ ms input lag. So, now I have moved onto the KS8000. My question is this: will this TV keep its input lag low while gaming in HDR? Is HDR enabled during game mode? And.. if not this TV, is there something else you would recommend to meet my specific needs? Or is this one the best choice for the best price? Thank you very much for your time!"
Rtings.com answer;
"That's correct, for HDR support it is necessary to use HDMI 1 - 4 on the Vizio P. We measured an input lag of 62.1ms when sending an HDR signal with 'Game Low Latency' on HDMI1 on the Vizio P. This is quite high for gaming, and will be an issue for a lot of people. The KS8000 is a good choice. We found that when sending an HDR signal, it is necessary to set the color space to 'Native' but then it successfully plays HDR content even with the 'Game' special picture mode. We measured the input lag with HDR metadata and 'Game' mode enabled to be 22.6ms."
Great news! Only a 2ms increase over non-HDR. Just maybe this will push me over the edge to get the 65" KS8000. We will know soon enough for sure when Forza Horizon 3 and Gears of War 4 come out.
It's a great TV from the little I've toyed with it.
I'd argue the blacks are better than our old Panasonic Plasma from 2008.
I confess that I don't use game mode on my KS8000. I much prefer the picture in movie mode and don't play any games where lag would be an issue, so I've got custom settings for motion. No complaints but understandable if that's a deal breaker for some.
Never had a Panasonic plasma, but I am very impressed with the blacks on mine. For value, I think it compares very favorable to OLED given the price difference. I'm not going to commit forum suicide by telling anyone what to buy - but I very much enjoy mine and was happy with the price I paid relative to other models on the market.
finalflame
Member
I have it and love it. Amazing blacks, great HDR, best picture quality of any TV I've owned.
I have a really, really hard time thinking OLED is worth 2x or 3x the price. At least not from what I've seen demoed.
Art Vandilay
Member
Well damn. Looks like I'll be getting a KS8000 instead of the Vizio P.
TLZ
Banned
Great news!
Just treated myself to a 55" KS9500
They had it reduced to AU$2995 and I couldn't resist!
(Only a $300 difference to the KS8000 so why not!)
Sounds pretty good. If i can't afford the E6, i'll keep this set in mind.
You don't know how good a TV is until you or one of your relatives/friends buy one and see it at home calibrated. TVs in stores are set to trash mode.
That being said, an OLED set can be worth that money if you're an enthusiast that wants the best picture quality possible at the moment, for everyone else a good LED will be good enough. I wanted the best picture quality in any 1080p set to enjoy HD content at their best, that's why i spent 1300 to get the EG910V instead of the W808C, the CS630 or the JS6300, which were much cheaper.
E6?
Monty Mole
Member
Which model?