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[Sunster]

Because there was a fucking teenager next to it?

Good thing none of the officers got bitten again and we only ended up with a dead kid! That could have been so much worse!

but a pit bull could kill all 5 officers in less than 5 seconds! they are THAT dangerous!

 

[ArkkAngel007]

i dont think its that, at all. i do think its probably bad practice to have your first reaction be OH SHIT SHOOT MY GUN.

IMO, those are the kind of behaviors and actions that shouldn't be in a cop.

like maybe im way off base, but i dont think this was some kind of murder. i just think this guy is a shitty cop, that probably shouldnt be a cop

I corrected myself from the hyperbole, but it wasn't their first response.

The first response was that they allowed, as GAF has cried out for officers to do in the past, the owner to restrain the animal despite it having attacked an officer.

When the shots were fired, the dog was attacking again with less than a second closing distance. It was a significant and immediate threat and didn't allow time for other means. Taser isnt anywhere near a guarantee, either in hitting the threat or neutralizing it before or even after it closed distance.

It's horrible the teen was killed, and the officer probably should still get heat even if it was the "right" option to draw and fire. And I'll argue again that the officers should have helped the teen restrain the dog and ensure that it was secured away from further possible interaction, as all the officers didn't have to accompany their co-worker to the street. But all these arguments for other options and such in that very moment where the dog came back into the picture ignore that very situation.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Terrible. And some of the headlines I read yesterday described the boy as a "suspect.

 

[The Jackdog]

I corrected myself from the hyperbole, but it wasn't their first response.

The first response was that they allowed, as GAF has cried out for officers to do in the past, the owner to restrain the animal despite it having attacked an officer.

When the shots were fired, the dog was attacking again with less than a second closing distance. It was a significant and immediate threat and didn't allow time for other means. Taser isnt anywhere near a guarantee, either in hitting the threat or neutralizing it before or even after it closed distance.

It's horrible the teen was killed, and the officer probably should still get heat even if it was the "right" option to draw and fire. And I'll argue again that the officers should have helped the teen restrain the dog and ensure that it was secured away from further possible interaction. But all these arguments for other options and such in that very moment where the dog came back into the picture ignore that very situation.

i agree with all that. i guess the only place we differ is i dont think you should be firing that many rounds in a neighborhood.

when i was taught gun safety it was just always know your surroundings, know your target, know who is behind your target, near your target, etc.

i just think this was exceptionally poor decision making that a police officer shouldnt have.

 

[Trojita]

Terrible. And some of the headlines I read yesterday described the boy as a "suspect.

Suspect of what? Terrible fucking reporting.

 

[Mael]

but a pit bull could kill all 5 officers in less than 5 seconds! they are THAT dangerous!

Just imagine if it was black! Could have destroyed a whole neighborhood in minutes!
The officers are heroes and should get the Key of the city!

 

[kirblar]

Terrible. And some of the headlines I read yesterday described the boy as a "suspect.

...what sites were you reading that were doing this? The LATimes article was the only one I saw yesterday.

 

[The Faceless Master]

how the fuck to mailmen manage?

 

[crazepharmacist]

i wish i could make arguably the biggest mistake possible at my job and never lose it

Well health care workers make medication mistakes all the time. Either the wrong prescription given, not noticed by pharmacy, handed out by the nurse unaware and the patient is seriously hurt or dies as a consequence. Firing over something like that is rare. What usually happens is training, reeducation, understanding what went wrong and why etc. usually it's the system that is at fault.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Had 5 officers right there, 2 shot at the dog.....jesus. Like 5 people can't deal with a dog?

 

[Heroman]

Is there a documentary or something about police training and how it works? Because I'm starting to think it's just like a stay over summer camp they all go to. across the lake from cheer camp with a big dance and a talent show at the end. Then they are handed their guns as they board the bus to go home.

There are various videos on YouTube on the different Police academy across the nation.

 

[Aselith]

how the fuck to mailmen manage?

You are given a little bottle of pepperspray when you start and they do some animal training videos

 

[ArkkAngel007]

i agree with all that. i guess the only place we differ is i dont think you should be firing that many rounds in a neighborhood.

when i was taught gun safety it was just always know your surroundings, know your target, know who is behind your target, near your target, etc.

i just think this was exceptionally poor decision making that a police officer shouldnt have.

I agree with that as well, though typically once such force is necessary you fire until the threat is neutralized.

Could have been entirely prevented though.

 

[Trojita]

what? no, where did I say they have auto aim? don't put words in my mouth, but if you are going to shoot a device purely aimed to maim and kill living things, you better have a good reason and better not be inaccurate.

2 officers missed EIGHT shots. WTF are you doing firing like in a neighborhood. it's ridiculous.

We only know of two of the shots missing. At least one round is known to have hit the dog.

Questioning how there could be missed shots makes me question your knowledge of fire arm use.

 

[The Jackdog]

Well health care workers make medication mistakes all the time. Either the wrong prescription given, not noticed by pharmacy, handed out by the nurse unaware and the patient is seriously hurt or dies as a consequence. Firing over something like that is rare. What usually happens is training, reeducation, understanding what went wrong and why etc. usually it's the system that is at fault.

totally acceptable.

will any of this happen in this case or the many others....?

 

[elrechazado]

You are given a little bottle of pepperspray when you start.

14 mailmen are killed every hour in the US. We must arm them to stop the death toll.

 

[Trojita]

how the fuck to mailmen manage?

They are given repellent. It's that and getting bit the fuck up.

 

[tearsintherain]

I wonder what would happen if police departments were re-purposed to not be the first point of contact for everything. Only to respond to armed and violent people and follow up on investigations for crimes that have already occurred. Basically not to respond to complaints, mental capability questions, "i saw a suspicious guy" occurrences, NO drug incidents period, etc.

I think part of the problem is we call upon cops for EVERYTHING, and really they are not trained to deal with a whole lot other than shoot people who are attacking them. They are really good at killing people. I'm not sure thats the right group of people to respond to a lot of situations. Maybe forcing everyone to take on some more personal responsibility in dealing with other human beings might be better. Might be worse.

 

[Kin5290]

These sheriff's deputies in question ignored Rule #1 of handling a gun, which is always be sure that the thing you're pointing your gun at is a thing that you want to kill. Knowing that there is nothing downrange beyond the target that can also get hit is the one thing that police should be trained to do.

 

[Sunster]

I wonder what would happen if police departments were re-purposed to not be the first point of contact for everything. Only to respond to armed and violent people and follow up on investigations for crimes that have already occurred. Basically not to respond to complaints, mental capability questions, "i saw a suspicious guy" occurrences, NO drug incidents period, etc.

I think part of the problem is we call upon cops for EVERYTHING, and really they are not trained to deal with a whole lot other than shoot people who are attacking them. They are really good at killing people. I'm not sure thats the right group of people to respond to a lot of situations. Maybe forcing everyone to take on some more personal responsibility in dealing with other human beings might be better. Might be worse.

and we could use SWAT for that. the officers with real training.

 

[BrahReally]

Is there a documentary or something about police training and how it works? Because I'm starting to think it's just like a stay over summer camp they all go to. across the lake from cheer camp with a big dance and a talent show at the end. Then they are handed their guns as they board the bus to go home.

I know it's probably not exactly what you're looking for... but I used to go to month long academies training under the state wide police association throughout my teens, and it's really weird. Being a POC I've always found it really odd going there in terms of what was said every now and then in the camps, and even in the, "junior" academies, they stress a fire first mentality, because, "the only thing that matters is keeping yourself and your fellow officer safe".

I dropped my interest in law enforcement like a bad habit and never looked back.

 

[Kylarean]

Is there a documentary or something about police training and how it works? Because I'm starting to think it's just like a stay over summer camp they all go to. across the lake from cheer camp with a big dance and a talent show at the end. Then they are handed their guns as they board the bus to go home.

Where I'm from in VA they have (had? It's been awhile) part-time cops that spend a weekend in training then get to take squad cars out and carry guns.

 

[Syrus]

It is a pit bull. Those things were bred to kill. They shouldn't be pets to begin with but I can understand the fear of that thing as it would kill you very quickly if you didn't stop it. That doesn't make what happened ok but they need to use a stun gun or tazer or something on it.

Your post is pure ignorance and I detest ypur words here.

PEOPLE breed them to kill.

They dont fuxking come out wanting to kill everything. The ignorant owners that use these dogs for protection or worse are at fault. The breed is beautiful and loyal and use to br Americas family dog until thugs fucked them up and became a culture.


Sorry If you take offense but it is just wrong to think the way you do

 

[boxter432]

We only know of two of the shots missing. At least one round is known to have hit the dog.

Questioning how there could be missed shots makes me question your knowledge of fire arm use.

two officers, not two shots:

"Two of the five sheriff's deputies shot six to eight rounds at the pitbull. None of them appear to have hit the dog"

 

[Mendrox]

Guns are just horrible. Another bad american example.

 

[Trojita]

two officers, not two shots:

You are citing the Reason.com article that is contradicting the news article posted in the OP

The dog was struck and retreated to a carport area at the rear of the complex, the Sheriff’s Department said. Deputies decided to try to corral the dog to prevent anyone else from being attacked, but as they approached the carport they noticed the boy on the ground wounded.

 

[elrechazado]

You are citing the Reason.com article that is contradicting the news article posted in the OP

Huh? Reason is quoting the latimes article there - from latimes:

"Five deputies were present at the time of the shooting but only two fired, discharging six to eight rounds, Bergner said."

Exact same quote you just said is incorrect.

 

[Sunster]

I know it's probably not exactly what you're looking for... but I used to go to month long academies training under the state wide police association throughout my teens, and it's really weird. Being a POC I've always found it really odd going there in terms of what was said every now and then in the camps, and even in the, "junior" academies, they stress a fire first mentality, because, "the only thing that matters is keeping yourself and your fellow officer safe".

I dropped my interest in law enforcement like a bad habit and never looked back.

weird. i thought our safety came first and that's why we are supposed to consider them heroes.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

...what sites were you reading that were doing this? The LATimes article was the only one I saw yesterday.

I think it was a local one to the area.

Fake edit:
http://abc7.com/news/suspect-killed-in-deputy-involved-shooting-in-palmdale-authorities-say/2131277/

Here's one that I saw. They've since changed the headline.

 

[Youngfossil]

It is a pit bull. Those things were bred to kill. They shouldn't be pets to begin with but I can understand the fear of that thing as it would kill you very quickly if you didn't stop it. That doesn't make what happened ok but they need to use a stun gun or tazer or something on it.

Get your BS pit bull propaganda outta here

 

[Trojita]

Huh? Reason is quoting the latimes article there - from latimes:

"Five deputies were present at the time of the shooting but only two fired, discharging six to eight rounds, Bergner said."

Exact same quote you just said is incorrect.

Reason.com "Two of the five sheriff's deputies shot six to eight rounds at the pitbull. None of them appear to have hit the dog"

LATimes "Five deputies were present at the time of the shooting but only two fired, discharging six to eight rounds, Bergner said." "The dog was struck"

Eliminate the differences. What do you find? A discrepancy.

 

[elrechazado]

Reason.com "Two of the five sheriff's deputies shot six to eight rounds at the pitbull. None of them appear to have hit the dog"

LATimes "Five deputies were present at the time of the shooting but only two fired, discharging six to eight rounds, Bergner said." "The dog was struck"

Eliminate the differences. What do you find? A discrepancy.

Ok, they seem to have missed that the dog was struck. What material difference does this make to the conversation at hand or the underlying discussion of their recklessness and escalation of the situation that resulted in a dead innocent?

They fired multiple shots at the dog. Whether one or two rounds were on target changes nothing about the discussion.

 

[Chozoman]

Not really commenting on this particular incident, but I was an Animal Control Officer for 2 years in North Las Vegas, dealing almost exclusively with pit bulls. The PD did not provide us with firearms, so we had to use our pepper spray, extendable batons or dog poles to protect ourselves.

I dealt with hundreds of aggressive, viscous animals and was able to protect myself, (please note, not all pits are aggressive/viscous...most would walk up and allow me to put a leash over their head. Just saying I have dealt with hundreds of aggressive canines). I was not bitten by a single dog during my tenure.

 

[Sunster]

Not really commenting on this particular incident, but I was an Animal Control Officer for 2 years in North Las Vegas, dealing almost exclusively with pit bulls. The PD did not provide us with firearms, so we had to use our pepper spray, extendable batons or dog poles to protect ourselves.

I dealt with hundreds of aggressive, viscous animals and was able to protect myself. I was not bitten by a single dog during my tenure.

lie! a pit bull can take an arm off in 1 bite. they have locking jaws, you know. if you worked with just 1 pit bull you'd be dead because they are 100% vicious.

 

[Trojita]

Ok, they seem to have missed that the dog was struck. What material difference does this make to the conversation at hand or the underlying discussion of their recklessness and escalation of the situation that resulted in a dead innocent?

The poster was putting out the notion that they shot eight times with all shots missing completely.

 

[SeanC]

Not really commenting on this particular incident, but I was an Animal Control Officer for 2 years in North Las Vegas, dealing almost exclusively with pit bulls. The PD did not provide us with firearms, so we had to use our pepper spray, extendable batons or dog poles to protect ourselves.

I dealt with hundreds of aggressive, viscous animals and was able to protect myself. I was not bitten by a single dog during my tenure.

Yeah but police don't have batons or pepper spray.

Oh wait...


Fake Edit: Even I, someone with no training and no weapons, subdued at attacking 50+ pound pitbull that was going after my girlfriend and her dog. If I can, five fucking officers can.

 

[Chozoman]

lie! a pit bull can take an arm off in 1 bite. they have locking jaws, you know. if you worked with just 1 pit bull you'd be dead because they are 100% vicious.

I didn't mean to make it sound like all the pits I ran across were viscous. Edited my initial post to better reflect the breed's misrepresented nature.

 

[Killzig]

Is it normal for 5 deputies to respond w/ firearms for a noise complaint? The neighbor that called in that noise complaint must feel like a real shithead for not just getting a pair of ear plugs.

 

[boxter432]

The poster was putting out the notion that they shot eight times with all shots missing completely.

yes due to the linked article in the OP. 2 did connect, 1 with an officer and 1 with a teenager, 1 may or may not have clipped the dog. still ridiculously reckless, unecessary, and resulted in an innocent kid being killed.

 

[Sunster]

I didn't mean to make it sound like all the pits I ran across were viscous. Edited my initial post to better reflect the breed's misrepresented nature.

I wasn't being facetious towards you. just the general attitude towards pit bulls. your post is an example of how pit bulls are not the miniature grizzly bears people seem to think they are. because not only are you alive, you weren't even bitten.

they are a breed that is cursed with bad ownership. bad owners choose them because they are a breed originally created to fight.those owners breed them and create more fighters. it's a cycle that has given pit bulls a disproportionate amount of "vicious" dogs. but a pit bull bred and raised like any other breed will behave like any other breed. they are not inherently vicious or dangerous just because they are inherently strong. they are among the most friendly and loyal breeds. lol i don't mean to pile on you. this post is really a PSA about pits. again, your post was good. i wasn't attacking it.

 

[boiled goose]

Im convinced street cops need to lose their guns.

It's a fucking public hazard that's doing more harm than good

 

[Chozoman]

I wasn't being facetious towards you. just the general attitude towards pit bulls. your post is an example of how pit bulls are not the miniature grizzly bears people seem to think they are. because not only are you alive, you weren't even bitten.

Agreed. Came close a few times, but with a little caution and a lot of pepper spray, I made it out unscathed, (by dogs anyway).

Jury is still out as to whether I'm alive or not.

 

[JoeBoy101]

i wish i could make arguably the biggest mistake possible at my job and never lose it

First post never fails.

Spoiler

Most of the time.

 

[Surfinn]

It is a pit bull. Those things were bred to kill. They shouldn't be pets to begin with but I can understand the fear of that thing as it would kill you very quickly if you didn't stop it. That doesn't make what happened ok but they need to use a stun gun or tazer or something on it.

This is a highly misinformed post.

Aside from stats (some which have already been posted in response) that directly contradict this perspective, I've been around and lived with so many pits who are gentle and even great with kids.

So much wrong here man

 

[oneHeero]

I corrected myself from the hyperbole, but it wasn't their first response.

The first response was that they allowed, as GAF has cried out for officers to do in the past, the owner to restrain the animal despite it having attacked an officer.

When the shots were fired, the dog was attacking again with less than a second closing distance. It was a significant and immediate threat and didn't allow time for other means. Taser isnt anywhere near a guarantee, either in hitting the threat or neutralizing it before or even after it closed distance.

It's horrible the teen was killed, and the officer probably should still get heat even if it was the "right" option to draw and fire. And I'll argue again that the officers should have helped the teen restrain the dog and ensure that it was secured away from further possible interaction, as all the officers didn't have to accompany their co-worker to the street. But all these arguments for other options and such in that very moment where the dog came back into the picture ignore that very situation.

This is the dumbest thing I read today. A gun isn't anywhere near a guarantee as proof in this fkn story.

 

[F34R]

I wonder what would happen if police departments were re-purposed to not be the first point of contact for everything. Only to respond to armed and violent people and follow up on investigations for crimes that have already occurred. Basically not to respond to complaints, mental capability questions, "i saw a suspicious guy" occurrences, NO drug incidents period, etc.

I think part of the problem is we call upon cops for EVERYTHING, and really they are not trained to deal with a whole lot other than shoot people who are attacking them. They are really good at killing people. I'm not sure thats the right group of people to respond to a lot of situations. Maybe forcing everyone to take on some more personal responsibility in dealing with other human beings might be better. Might be worse.

Yeah, that would be really bad for everyone.

Im convinced street cops need to lose their guns.

It's a fucking public hazard that's doing more harm than good

That's rubbish. 963 deaths by cops shooting for 2016, and that doesn't take out the justified shootings. Compare that to millions of police interactions each year that don't result in any use of force at all.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

lie! a pit bull can take an arm off in 1 bite. they have locking jaws, you know. if you worked with just 1 pit bull you'd be dead because they are 100% vicious.

No they cant, no they dont, and no they arent.

Im just going to assume this is a joke post.

 

[Shaanyboi]

It is a pit bull. Those things were bred to kill. They shouldn't be pets to begin with but I can understand the fear of that thing as it would kill you very quickly if you didn't stop it. That doesn't make what happened ok but they need to use a stun gun or tazer or something on it.

Jesus christ, do you actually believe this shit?

 

[kirblar]

Im convinced street cops need to lose their guns.

It's a fucking public hazard that's doing more harm than good

Get the guns taken away from the public and you can make this happen.

(good luck w/ that one.)

 

[Galactic Barret]

A 65-70lb pit bull bearing down on you at full speed is nothing to sneeze at. I used to breed them, so I know how vicious and hostile they can be. There is nothing harder than trying to tear to fighting pitbulls apart.

However, I don't believe in shooting dogs in general. Its funny (not haha, of course) because, like these officers, a pitbull is trained to protect and serve. He was going to be killed for doing its job.

Its a tragic situation. Nightsticks would have been a solid approach here.