Neuromancer
Member
Will it work in the tub?
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Questions/Community Feedback Regarding Project Morpheus
- Thread starter Liberty4all
- Start date
Listen to this man.
I have a few questions:
Doesn't Oled allow a 1ms refresh rate, which is very important to keep latency down, and also better looking pixels?
Isn't 90 degrees FOV too small? the OR dev kit had 110 and there was still room for improvement there.
Will there be strobing to eliminate motion blur?
Doesn't Oled allow a 1ms refresh rate, which is very important to keep latency down, and also better looking pixels?
Isn't 90 degrees FOV too small? the OR dev kit had 110 and there was still room for improvement there.
Will there be strobing to eliminate motion blur?
vxXJordanXxv
Banned
I feel ashamed that AO content is the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of VR. Mainly because of movies like Total Recall and the Sixth Man both Arney movies lol.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
If this has PC support I might buy 2.
Wait, that wasn't a question.
Wait, that wasn't a question.
EmptySpace
Banned
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Dude...what have you discovered?!?!?
It's gotta gotta gotta have really good glasses support. And I want to be able to buy this instead of a new TV. Perhaps give developers what essentially amounts to tax cuts when they do VR support. And the VR content can't be balls expensive either, that's one way to turn people odd from even considering the stuff.
I'm excited about the product, but if you want this to be a big thing, you have to get it out in peoples hands. Not just the hardcore, even though we'll do tons of work, you want Soccer Mom and Dad That Used To Play Videogames. It's probably as simple as some Best Buy kiosks.
I'm excited about the product, but if you want this to be a big thing, you have to get it out in peoples hands. Not just the hardcore, even though we'll do tons of work, you want Soccer Mom and Dad That Used To Play Videogames. It's probably as simple as some Best Buy kiosks.
EmptySpace
Banned
first off, what are you going to do about latency? latency has to be the priority, alongside framerate and fov.
if a 5-meter cable works the best, don't go around wasting more power and time doing wireless.
for me, personally, i want to have eye-tracking. that beats any fov slider. oculus (as far as we know) does not have it, and it's bad enough to turn your head every time something is out-of-frame. i guess that is way harder to have software to run it and even way harder to actually implement it, but that is one of the big things that i hope this headset does. keighley did a feature where the dude who is the face of the move (forgot his name. dr. richard?), and he showed off some eye tracking.
framerate is a must, but i feel that is up to the games themselves to run at that framerate. again, everything should be about immersion. it doesn't matter if it doesn't look like uncharted, because vr is way more immersive than the most graphically-intensive game on a 2d screen.
we know cost is one of the biggest constraints. either launch it later so costs can be lower and will give way for some quality parts and features, or release it sooner but eat the cost of having quality or remove some things. personally, i hope you can make the best possible device at a fairly reasonable price. this is the next big thing, so don't be afraid to make it a bit more pricey than usual. people would want to experience this, therefore it'll sell. user experience should be priority. sales will follow once users get the best possible experience for the right amount of money. don't put out something that can't be fixed without a hardware upgrade. if the experience is smooth from the get-go, word-of-mouth will do its own thing. and for me, latency is key. the delay between you turning your head and the camera in the game is most important. people wouldn't normally care about graphics capabilities. just look at the number of peeps who do mobile gaming or minecraft.
if a 5-meter cable works the best, don't go around wasting more power and time doing wireless.
for me, personally, i want to have eye-tracking. that beats any fov slider. oculus (as far as we know) does not have it, and it's bad enough to turn your head every time something is out-of-frame. i guess that is way harder to have software to run it and even way harder to actually implement it, but that is one of the big things that i hope this headset does. keighley did a feature where the dude who is the face of the move (forgot his name. dr. richard?), and he showed off some eye tracking.
framerate is a must, but i feel that is up to the games themselves to run at that framerate. again, everything should be about immersion. it doesn't matter if it doesn't look like uncharted, because vr is way more immersive than the most graphically-intensive game on a 2d screen.
we know cost is one of the biggest constraints. either launch it later so costs can be lower and will give way for some quality parts and features, or release it sooner but eat the cost of having quality or remove some things. personally, i hope you can make the best possible device at a fairly reasonable price. this is the next big thing, so don't be afraid to make it a bit more pricey than usual. people would want to experience this, therefore it'll sell. user experience should be priority. sales will follow once users get the best possible experience for the right amount of money. don't put out something that can't be fixed without a hardware upgrade. if the experience is smooth from the get-go, word-of-mouth will do its own thing. and for me, latency is key. the delay between you turning your head and the camera in the game is most important. people wouldn't normally care about graphics capabilities. just look at the number of peeps who do mobile gaming or minecraft.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Well you don't want the same image pushed to two headsets when using VR. That would mean one headset is the one that would control rotation and things like that, which can be incredibly uncomfortable if you're in the other headset which doesn't have control. For example, you can watch YouTube videos of people playing rift games, inside of your own Rift. However, I can't do that for more than a minute because it's nauseating viewing something through someone else's eyes essentially. What you want is a separate view for each user.
I don't see why the PS4 wouldn't be able to do that. During the presentation they said they were only focusing on allowing one headset per console though. The "virtual tourism" thing could be done multiplayer with two consoles though. What's neat about multiplayer scenarios like this is seeing each others avatars. It's just much cooler seeing where someone is actually looking, and when you talk to someone, you still can get the feeling that you're looking someone in the eye and they're looking back.
Codeblew
Member
Is Sony planning on working with OR in order to create a common API to make it easier for devs to port VR games between PC and PS4?
Will the headset have a coprocessor and memory to handle tasks such as triple-buffering, distorting the image for the lenses and possibly moving the viewport based on head movement before the next frame comes in?
Will the headset have a coprocessor and memory to handle tasks such as triple-buffering, distorting the image for the lenses and possibly moving the viewport based on head movement before the next frame comes in?
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
I would like to know if there is any health risks and if Sony are doing safety tests. I could see potential problems coming from this. If holding a cell phone against your head is bad for you then I would think the VR headset might be worse.
Aside from health concerns, the concept of Morpheus and oculus rift is truly amazing. You could use it to train pilots and racers. It can also take architectural visualization to a new level.
Should be interesting to try this with gran turismo 7.
Aside from health concerns, the concept of Morpheus and oculus rift is truly amazing. You could use it to train pilots and racers. It can also take architectural visualization to a new level.
Should be interesting to try this with gran turismo 7.
Support is going to be key, and not just on PS devices. BD player Movie support and PC support should be priority as well.
Other than that, I don't want to see it sap games of rendering power. But that's ultimately a Dev choice. Still, options are always good better 2d, worse 3d.
Other than that, I don't want to see it sap games of rendering power. But that's ultimately a Dev choice. Still, options are always good better 2d, worse 3d.
Casual means casual price. Anything over 200-300 total for an experience is a hard sell, like it or not.
Galactic Barret
Member
Thats what I thought and how, I believe, it should be.
Is the plan for it to be wired and if so, how will that work?
Yes, I want a headset jack. Standard-sized, please. Include VR/Camera and VR/Game bundles.
Thats all for now.
First, listen to this man. Unless you can get the price very very low initially <$200, there will need to be an incredibly strong incentive to "cross the chasm". It does not matter if you build the best VR device, limiting it to one platform, with a handful of supported titles is not going to sustain the growth of the peripheral.
Open up PC support, right off the bat. The PS4VR software sales lost to PC Morpheus titles will be negated or at the very least greatly minimized by the fact that there will be far more Sony VR headsets in the market place than there would be if it was exclusive to the PS4. Exclusive PS4VR titles also help remedy this. This also give 3rd parties a greater reason to add VR to their titles, since they know there is a strong enough user base to justify the added cost. The key to "winning" this scenario is putting out more, top tier quality software on the PS4 (and getting successful PC VR titles ported over ASAP).
I'm curious how the marketing of VR will play out. This is something that has to be experienced to truly understand the impact this medium possesses. I'm sure everyone involved with informing the public have many ideas in that regard, but my 2 cents are as follows.
-Music/Film Festivals: With the great potential for word of mouth with VR, it would be great if you could set up demo units in the halls of a theater or a tent in an outdoor concert environment. I think with the large crowds and social media it would be a great way to educate people of the experience.
-YouTube: I hope that you will be as open with your dev kits as Oculus are leading up to release, because the ability to share experiences through youtube seems to be very effective in creating interest. The number of views for most OR videos are always in the Hundreds of Thousands, if not Millions. I understand most of those people might not be devs, but what is important is that they want to share their experiences with VR and that I believe is what is the essence of this phenomenon... since this might not be the same situation where anyone can outright buy a dev unit, maybe you can allow devs to log their own progress and document their family, friends or fans experiencing the game leading up to release.
-Retail Kiosks: An obvious decision, but I can't stress this enough! This really should be in as many stores as possible upon release!
I honestly think VR for gaming is a very transformative form of technology, but sharing that experience is not an easy task. Some people just might doubt the power of presence, and it's good to have a healthy dose of skepticism, but I honestly think most people who doubt this would most likely change their tune once given the chance to try it out, and the more people who get into VR the more developer support and a much brighter future for VR as a whole, and that'd make me a happy individual
-Music/Film Festivals: With the great potential for word of mouth with VR, it would be great if you could set up demo units in the halls of a theater or a tent in an outdoor concert environment. I think with the large crowds and social media it would be a great way to educate people of the experience.
-YouTube: I hope that you will be as open with your dev kits as Oculus are leading up to release, because the ability to share experiences through youtube seems to be very effective in creating interest. The number of views for most OR videos are always in the Hundreds of Thousands, if not Millions. I understand most of those people might not be devs, but what is important is that they want to share their experiences with VR and that I believe is what is the essence of this phenomenon... since this might not be the same situation where anyone can outright buy a dev unit, maybe you can allow devs to log their own progress and document their family, friends or fans experiencing the game leading up to release.
-Retail Kiosks: An obvious decision, but I can't stress this enough! This really should be in as many stores as possible upon release!
I honestly think VR for gaming is a very transformative form of technology, but sharing that experience is not an easy task. Some people just might doubt the power of presence, and it's good to have a healthy dose of skepticism, but I honestly think most people who doubt this would most likely change their tune once given the chance to try it out, and the more people who get into VR the more developer support and a much brighter future for VR as a whole, and that'd make me a happy individual
foamdino
Member
Please get together with Occulus and Valve and define a common set of APIs. Then compete on the price/quality of the hardware, not the software interfaces.
Even better make the SDK open source - then watch indies and hackers scramble to get hold of the headsets to build really awesome things you cannot even imagine yet
This is the just the right time to start something game changing - if VR takes off we will see the birth of whole new genres of games, something that the industry as a whole desperately needs.
Even better make the SDK open source - then watch indies and hackers scramble to get hold of the headsets to build really awesome things you cannot even imagine yet
This is the just the right time to start something game changing - if VR takes off we will see the birth of whole new genres of games, something that the industry as a whole desperately needs.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
VR needs its Mario 64.
It needs its Zelda 64.
It needs its Journey's
It needs its Wii Sports.
Bring back games with smaller sized budgets that are willing to be experimental yet at the same time fully produced. Tearaway is a great example of such a project that would be highly successful at showing off VR.
It needs its Zelda 64.
It needs its Journey's
It needs its Wii Sports.
Bring back games with smaller sized budgets that are willing to be experimental yet at the same time fully produced. Tearaway is a great example of such a project that would be highly successful at showing off VR.
Liberty4all
Banned
What's the most you guys would pay? edit: for me personally I think that 199 - 299 is my price point. 199 being a "for sure" purchase, and 299 being something I'd stretch for, Anything more is a no go
400
Purple Cheeto
Member
Why make your own tacky 3d peripheral instead of supporting OR? Or is the obvious answer of money the correct guess?
Callibretto
Member
But Sony's vision of vr seems like it goes beyond of oculus rift with camera, ps move, and the 3d sound work together with the headset. Unless or is also supporting those, the experience provided by or and morpheus can be quite different.
Another view can also say that ps move and sound will be Sony's differentiator to compete with oculus rift since they know they're not goint to fight pc+or with brute force. Worst case scenario for them.if they sold this thing at a loss or very minial margin only for people using it.on pc and not buying any software on ps4.
serversurfer
Member
Your buddy puts on the headset and becomes Iron Man. You assume the role of JARVIS, following the action on the TV, and "doing stuff" with the DS4. The mics in the Camera pick up what you're saying and pipe it to Tony's headphones.
$249-$349 depending the inclusion of the camera. So at most I would pay $300 just for the headset and $350 with the camera... but $249 standalone would be most optimal, it would be that sweet spot.
Liberty4all
Banned
Cheesemeister
Member
That's a pretty vague question, and it really depends on the specs and interoperability, as well as the breadth of content available and the prospect of future availability.
Let's say that the specs remain as listed...
Being tethered by a cable precludes 360-degree spinning, which can be quite a big limiting factor to gameplay. Is it even possible to keep the latency down to imperceptible levels when doing wireless I/O like the Wii U? Button press latency tolerances may be higher than VR.
Anyways, assuming that the product delivers and at launch there are at least 3 quality games requiring the device, another dozen supporting titles, PC support, and broad support pledged, a $200 price point would adequately capture consumer interest to make the effort sustainable. Maybe plus/minus $25 depending upon wireless support.
Liberty4all
Banned
Would You Pay for a Personal VR Space you could invite friends back to ala Home and launch any game from?
Cheesemeister
Member
That's like asking people to pay for the system menu. If you want to monetize such an interface, sell hats.
Liberty4all
Banned
I should probaly clarify this is just me, not SCEA throwing ideas out. They'll be reading this thread so that sort of feedback (ie. HELL NO + Why or HELL YES + Why) is helpful.
Speaking for myself I *might* pay for a personal VR space depending what I could do with it. With HOME I found personal space useless, but in VR where I might potentially hang out for hours, I could see myself wanting to decorate.
fallen_dawn
Member
I think most people would want a system such as that to be free. If you're paying a sum of money for a headset, most people would expect a feature such as that to be free, not paid. If it worked the same as Home did, however (free to get into, then microtransactions for customisations, etc.), I could see people using it. Home was successful financially, wasn't it?
With a solid launch line up (new experiences & VR ports), 1 small VR game included, specs as is or better, announced but possibly not currently implemented PC support, camera, no Move, and being able to physically try it before I buy it, ~$300. No PC support, ever, <$200.
Release Morpheus and GT7 (w/Morpheus support) at the same time and you will have a huge Trojan horse. Many enthusiastic GT players pay $200-600 for a racing wheel. A VR headset is right up our alley.
Release Morpheus and GT7 (w/Morpheus support) at the same time and you will have a huge Trojan horse. Many enthusiastic GT players pay $200-600 for a racing wheel. A VR headset is right up our alley.
Liberty4all
Banned
I hadn't really thought about that angle, but yeah I think I spent 199 for a flight stick back when Allegiance first came out in 2000.
serversurfer
Member
I'd pay $60 for Media Molecule's VR construction kit if it let me create my own Apartments in Home.
I'll buy it anyway, but they should totally let us do that.
Game Launching should be supported everywhere in Home and I mean supported, not the half-assed efforts we got on PS3 and ideally it should be as easy as hopping in the nearest turbolift and announcing what game/world you'd like to be transported to. The ride in the lift can mask the loading time.
Liberty4all
Banned
I'd pay $60 for Media Molecule's VR construction kit if it let me create my own Apartments in Home.I'll buy it anyway, but they should totally let us do that.
Game Launching should be supported everywhere in Home and I mean supported, not the half-assed efforts we got on PS3 and ideally it should be as easy as hopping in the nearest turbolift and announcing what game/world you'd like to be transported to. The ride in the lift can mask the loading time.
I agree with you. Game launching needs to be ace this time around.
ZehDon
Member
Excellent thread, and nice to know that our feedback is getting to the right people.
My only feedback to Sony would be: pick your market, and move forward accordingly.
Bamelin commented that he believed Sony were aiming at the casual market with a potential "cannon". My comment on that would be: Microsoft convinced themselves TV and Kinect were a "cannon". And we know how that one turned out. Sony cannot make that same mistake. The promise, or even delivery, of VR alone isn't going to convince the casual market to adopt. US$99.00 Morpheus is a "cannon". US$300.00 Morpheus is a niche peripheral. A bundle PS4 + Morpheus for the same price as the Xbone? That's a game ending shot.
If Sony want to target the casual market, price is going to make or break it - in addition to software, of course. If they cannot hit ~US$99.00, and realistically I don't think anyone is expecting them to, the casual market simply isn't going to be lining up around the block. Sony need to target the hardcore crowd like they've done with the PS4, and let us sell Morpheus for them. And targeting the hardcore means games.
For the hardcore to adopt, Morpheus needs an instant catalog of games on day one. Minecraft VR, GT7 VR, The Witness, No Man's Sky, EVE Valkyrie, SotC VR, etc, etc. Enough games to silence even the most pessimistic of fence sitters, to keep the early adopters busy for months, serving as Sony's advertisements. If it means holding Morpheus back till those games are ready, then Sony needs to do that. If it means money hats, Sony needs to do that. First impressions count.
edit:
My only feedback to Sony would be: pick your market, and move forward accordingly.
Bamelin commented that he believed Sony were aiming at the casual market with a potential "cannon". My comment on that would be: Microsoft convinced themselves TV and Kinect were a "cannon". And we know how that one turned out. Sony cannot make that same mistake. The promise, or even delivery, of VR alone isn't going to convince the casual market to adopt. US$99.00 Morpheus is a "cannon". US$300.00 Morpheus is a niche peripheral. A bundle PS4 + Morpheus for the same price as the Xbone? That's a game ending shot.
If Sony want to target the casual market, price is going to make or break it - in addition to software, of course. If they cannot hit ~US$99.00, and realistically I don't think anyone is expecting them to, the casual market simply isn't going to be lining up around the block. Sony need to target the hardcore crowd like they've done with the PS4, and let us sell Morpheus for them. And targeting the hardcore means games.
For the hardcore to adopt, Morpheus needs an instant catalog of games on day one. Minecraft VR, GT7 VR, The Witness, No Man's Sky, EVE Valkyrie, SotC VR, etc, etc. Enough games to silence even the most pessimistic of fence sitters, to keep the early adopters busy for months, serving as Sony's advertisements. If it means holding Morpheus back till those games are ready, then Sony needs to do that. If it means money hats, Sony needs to do that. First impressions count.
edit:
I don't think that would work, as the GoPro cannot film in stereoscopic in 360 degrees of vision. One of the take-away points from Valve and OR during their conferences earlier this year was that the moment you take head tracking away from the player, the experience is worthless.
I know this is an arms race, but is there going to be PC support, because I believe the indies are alot more likely to take this on board than the likes of EA and Activision, although do make a pitch for a Be a Pro mode VR in Fifa to EA.
MLB the show would be perfect along with Move.
MLB the show would be perfect along with Move.
Pretty sure someone in this thread or somewhere else had already asked this but I'm gonna ask it anyway.
How do you plan the integration into games? You are planning to handle it separately, with an entirely distinct VR lineup, or more like a switchable option in games?
My only concern is that I like eye candy games, and I don't really like to see some beautiful cinematic games gimped because of a feature that isn't necessarly for everyone. For example (a bit bad one because it's a tps) would the graphics of The Order 1886 needed to be downgraded in order for it to become VR compatible?
Edit: by downgrade I've meant downgrading the non-VR part. Obviously when VR is switched on, graphics had to be toned down.
How do you plan the integration into games? You are planning to handle it separately, with an entirely distinct VR lineup, or more like a switchable option in games?
My only concern is that I like eye candy games, and I don't really like to see some beautiful cinematic games gimped because of a feature that isn't necessarly for everyone. For example (a bit bad one because it's a tps) would the graphics of The Order 1886 needed to be downgraded in order for it to become VR compatible?
Edit: by downgrade I've meant downgrading the non-VR part. Obviously when VR is switched on, graphics had to be toned down.
1) Launch titles are more important than any thing else. If Wii proved one thing, having a compelling experience like Wii Sports is more important than any thing else. People paid $500-$600 on ebay to buy Wiis.
2) Have enough variety of titles at launch. Sports, Movies, FPS, 3rd person adventure. Include a few variety so that every one has some thing to play. Especially kid friendly ones like Skylander, Just dance etc will help a lot
2) Have enough variety of titles at launch. Sports, Movies, FPS, 3rd person adventure. Include a few variety so that every one has some thing to play. Especially kid friendly ones like Skylander, Just dance etc will help a lot
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