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Rayman Origins/Legends are the current benchmarks for 2D platformers

How is Mario Maker a benchmark when 99.9% of its user-generated levels are garbage?

I love Mario Maker for what it is, but I don't think it belongs in this conversation.
It has more better levels than any other 2D Platformer game ever. And it has multiple games in one.
 

Mega

Banned
It's obviously a matter of opinion, but while I love these games and the way platforming flows, the stages are simplistic. The level design pales in comparison to Nintendo's best platformers ranging from NES to Wii U.
 

Gator86

Member
uh oh, OP has made a fatal GAF mistake! By starting the conversation with "*thing A* is the best!" instead of "*Thing A* is so good!", the thread will now be about "no, actually *thing B, C, D, etc* are the best" instead of "agree OP, *Thing A* is quite good!"

Talk to your kids about how to properly make GAF threads that could lead to fruitful discussions.

Before its too late.

This is both hilarious and accurate. Nintendo GAF has nothing to do aside from Switch speculation so most posts will be about Mario being better. That said, agree with the OP. The last two Rayman games were superb and are what I think of as the bar in the genre now. We really need a new one. Vivendi, please.

2D Mario hasn't been interesting for me since Mario World damn near perfected the genre.
 
Origins is fantastic and everyone should play it now.

Legends has some great levels and ideas, but felt kind of unfocused overall. If there's such a thing as too much variety, this is what it's like.

I'm not sure I'm ready to definitively call either the "current benchmark for 2D platformers", but Origins is certainly up there—alongside DKCR, Tropical Freeze, Shovel Knight, Kirby's Return to Dreamland, and NSMBU.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Here we gooooo

Rayman Origins is the benchmark for momentum-based platforming. Origins > Legends.

DKCR/TF is the benchmark for momentum combined with skillful jumping-based platforming.

SMB3/NSMBU/NSLU is the benchmark for skillful jumping-based platforming.

Now we can all agree!

Love it.
 

Peltz

Member
It's obviously a matter of opinion, but while I love these games and the way platforming flows, the stages are simplistic. The level design pales in comparison to Nintendo's best platformers ranging from NES to Wii U.
QFT
 
Legends is the best. Even better then any recent 2D Mario.



giphy.gif
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
I'd have to go with New Super Mario Bros U/New Super Luigi U, personally.

I love both Rayman titles but sometimes the art gets in the way of the gameplay and it makes it a bit difficult to judge hitboxes on enemies and the environments.
 
Origins was sooo good. Those treasure chase and land of the livid dead levels are some of the peak platforming I've ever played, especially in coop.

I should really get back to Legends, I got kinda overwhelmed by the amount of content in it and then got sidetracked by other stuff. I haven't played enough to say how it compares to origins yet.

The art is so vibrant and you can build so much momentum, and how the soundtrack blends with what you're doing on screen, it's just good stuff. Even the iPhone Rayman runner games were fun.
 

I Wanna Be The Guy

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Rayman Origins was easily one of the most disappointing games of last gen for me, i'll never understand the praise for that scholastic, boring ass, flat level design. Backgrounds art is absolutely amazing, but they ruined the usual Rayman tone, which was always ironic, not dumb. I also found music to be unsufferable, except for a few tracks.

Never bought Legends because of this, although i tried the demo on the Wii U and that musical level with Black Betty was very fun. All in all RO doesn't even compre to the first Rayman, let alone the true benchmarks of the genre like Super Mario Bros. 3, World and DK Tropical Freeze, which are several notches above in level design and gameplay.
There's a lot of truth to this. Neither Rayman game is great on the gameplay front. They're simply solid and fun, and the visuals is really what sets them apart. But regardless Origins is a very fun game. Just not one on the level of the top tier the genre has on offer.
 

Mega

Banned
One could even argue that the Origins/Legends' style of platforming is very guided and "on rails" like a modern AAA 3D games that holds your hand as you go from one scripted obstacle to the next. And the latter is frowned upon here.
 

maxcriden

Member

Thank you!

One more addition:

Kirby RTDL/TD/Robobot are essentially interchangeably the benchmark for all-ages platforming with focus on "fun" only and mostly not on difficulty for the platforming itself. These games > Superstar Ultra, which is amazing for its time but does not hold up in level design.

Mass Attack is the benchmark for touchscreen-based platforming with emphasis on jumping.

Canvas/Rainbow Curse is the benchmark for touchscreen-based platforming with emphasis on skill.
 

Nosgotham

Junior Member
Really? Look at the level design compare to tropical freeze and NSMBU and I just don't see it. Its great game, legends in particular but benchmark? Nah
 
One could even argue that the Origins/Legends' style of platforming is very guided and "on rails" like a modern AAA 3D games that holds your hand as you go from one scripted obstacle to the next. And the latter is frowned upon here.

I can kind of understand the "on-rails" complaint in Legends, but not Origins.

I also thought that the scripted bits worked well in Legends, although I wish they were also accompanied by more traditional platforming sections.
 

I Wanna Be The Guy

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Here we gooooo

Rayman Origins is the benchmark for momentum-based platforming. Origins > Legends.

DKCR/TF is the benchmark for momentum combined with skillful jumping-based platforming.

SMB3/NSMBU/NSLU is the benchmark for skillful jumping-based platforming.

Now we can all agree!
Put this in the OP and close the thread.

Also, Super Mest Boy is the benchmark for challenging skill based platforming in bite sized levels.
 
Both fantastic games. Look marvellous on Vita btw. On par with the big titles if you ask me ( Ori, DK, Shovel Knight, Mario etc. ) Very appealing visuals.
 

Fliesen

Member
I'd have to go with New Super Mario Bros U/New Super Luigi U, personally.

I love both Rayman titles but sometimes the art gets in the way of the gameplay and it makes it a bit difficult to judge hitboxes on enemies and the environments.

exactly my issues with those games. They're great runners, but i don't really care for that kind of platforming.
 

Intel_89

Member
Thank you!

One more addition:

Kirby RTDL/TD/Robobot are essentially interchangeably the benchmark for all-ages platforming with focus on "fun" only and mostly not on difficulty for the platforming itself. These games > Superstar Ultra, which is amazing for its time but does not hold up in level design.

Mass Attack is the benchmark for touchscreen-based platforming with emphasis on jumping.

Canvas/Rainbow Curse is the benchmark for touchscreen-based platforming with emphasis on skill.

Change your name to maxbenchmark please. No seriously, those are pretty accurate descriptions. We've been spoiled with great 2d platformers, I'm glad to have such a variety and would love to see this extended to 2d beat em ups and shmups.
 

Coxy100

Banned
I'm sure a load of people will be along soon saying you're wrong, and it's Ori that is the benchmark.

But I agree with you, the Rayman's are amazing platformers.
Count me in the load of people - Rayman is good. But Ori is stunning and the OP needs to update the subject and change it to Ori ;)
 

Zalman

Member
After replaying them recently, I'm not sure. They look fantastic, but I think the level design makes NSMBU a better game. Not to mention DKC:TF. They're still great 2D platformers, but I wouldn't call them the current benchmark.
 
I love the polish on the presentation for Rayman Origins (haven't played Legends) but I have never quite clicked with its slipperiness and weird-ass hitboxes. But I also never "got" the original DKC games for the same reason. On the other hand, I loved DKCR and LOVED Tropical Freeze because they were much tighter in that regard.
 

Shiggy

Member
Pretty much disagree. The collision detection in Origins was terrible. Sometimes Rayman grabbed a ledge, other times he didn't. Some times I was touching spikes and died, other times I didn't.

Mario games, due to their simpler art style maybe, are more clear. I think the level design is also better. Origins felt pretty boring to me.

Rayman Jungle Run was imo much better than Origins.
 
Really love both Rayman games mentioned in the OP, lots of fun and very charming. Would give Legends the nod out of the two but yea, really great.

The mobile games they've used the assets for have been pretty great runners too, jungle run etc.
 

Peltz

Member
I feel like Super Meat Boy is also one of the best in the genre... it took the Gameboy DK94-style concept of "contained" levels to the extreme.

It is a far better example of tight level design and amazing controls than any Rayman game.

If any non-Nintendo platformer has a claim to the pinnacle of the genre, I think it's that and not Rayman.
 

_Clash_

Member
Not quite,

It's really just Super Meat Boy made fashionable. And good on them because it's great. Me likey.

Not a benchmark however. Not really an innovator. Just tremendous presentation and a great game.
 

SuomiDude

Member
I have Legends for Wii U and I was honestly quite bored playing the game. I didn't feel the urge to play every new level, it was more like beating the necessary stages to just beat the game and move on. Unlike in games like New Super Mario Bros. (/Super Luigi U), Yoshi's Woolly World and Donkey Kong Country Returns: Tropical Freeze, I really wanted to see what the game had to offer after every level, and in case of Mario/Luigi and Yoshi, I really wanted to push for the 100%. Donkey Kong was a bit too difficult for me to 100%, but I really tried.
 

phanphare

Banned
never understood the praise rayman legends got. really mediocre game. origins was good but nothing spectacular. I've played many 2D platformers in the past 5-10 years that are on another level compared to both of those rayman games.
 
How is Mario Maker a benchmark when 99.9% of its user-generated levels are garbage?

I love Mario Maker for what it is, but I don't think it belongs in this conversation.
It has more better levels than any other 2D Platformer game ever.

If you can actually find all of them. Which you won't, at least not without also playing a bunch of crap.

I also don't think there are enough overall pieces—there are fewer types of enemies, platforms, etc than in any normal Mario game since SMB Lost Levels.
 
I agree OP. Rayman Origins was one of the best platformers I've ever played. It amazing how well it turned out, I couldn't have hoped for it to be any better.

Rayman Legends was a bit disappointing in comparison but still good. Level design was simpler and marred by gimmicks and there creeped up the typical Ubisoft focus tested bloat everywhere that made the game feel like it wanted you to be grinding through levels for rewards rather than just playing the game to completion.
 

Nestunt

Member
I agree. They manage to have great core mechanics and feel AAA at the same time in terms of production.
 

topplehat

Member
Yeah I actually slightly prefer Legends over Origins, but both are incredible. Really love the music levels in Legends.
 
Agreed. Amazing games, put them on the Vita and felt like the 14 years old me playing Mario or Sonic for the first time. Exactly what I dreamed about videogames when I was playing Sonic and Mario, really.

AMAZING games.
 

BigEmil

Junior Member
I thought the level design in these games were pretty bad honestly, and nowhere close to the best modern games in the genre like New Super Mario Bros U, VVVVVV, Shovel Knight, Odallus or Tropical Freeze. They look amazing though, no doubt about that.

Highly disagree
 
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