rrvv
Member
nope, investor and share holder like DRM
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Rumor: Grand Theft Auto V will use additional DRM on PC (Steam + Denuvo)
- Thread starter crimsonheadGCN
- Start date
nope, investor and share holder like DRM
serenewarfare
Banned
FIFA is a console series. The PC ports are mainly just done as an extra avenue. They aren't the primary focus are and sales reflect that. GTA on PC is a bigger deal in both interest and sales. Even if you just look at it as a whole, GTA V made more money in three days than any game ever. That alone puts any port of it on a different plane from just about anything else.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
I'd rather those who planned on pirating anyway not be able to play the games I had to pay for to enjoy, and I think it's just fair.
This. Rockstar has done a great job on helping PC gamers that were planning on buying this game to save a lot of their money to go towards other games with this shit.
That's pretty much how I feel, especially if this DRM solution is strong enough to not be cracked for many months. Fuck em.
Sentenza
Member
I'd rather not having to suffer the inconvenience myself as a paying customer just to "punish" a penniless 15 old Chinese kid pirating the game on torrent, actually.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
No, I'm saying that part of the definition of what is derogatorily named a rootkit is that it disguises or hides running processes.
I mean, yes, it is a very fucking good question why non-malicious software would want to hide its presence from a user, but I'm not declaring it to be malicious, I'm just telling you what the accepted defintion of rootkit is.
Guess what certain DRM solutions do...?
serenewarfare
Banned
Spoiler alert: It won't.
There were so many rich fuckers at my college who never paid a cent for PC games, ever. I do understand your side no question about it; but to me I want that shit to stop.
Last page someone said FIFA hasn't been cracked yet. So it is at least possible this will be the case for GTA.
SerTapTap
Member
Also don't forget that not all steam games have DRM of any kind. I learned this after Assault Android Cactus's twitter was mocking some torrenter for "cracking" their DRM-free steam version (also it was malware).
and that's fine that you feel that way.
I however don't want to have to spend an hour or more trying to play a game I paid money for.
It's still DRM though. Being completely against DRM and then using Steam is just being hypocritical.
Hence I said I understand your side of the argument.
CurlySaysX
Banned
Will buy for $7.99 during steam sales. Virgindance.gif
Sentenza
Member
Well, thank god(s) I'm not "completely against", because I'm not a fucking zealot.
I'm against with good reason when the DRM is actually harmful for my computer.
A "DRM" which is actually an useful service I like to use and doesn't harm me in any way is totally fine for me.
I don't know why they don't use what ARMA uses, DEGRADE or FADE copy protection. When the game detects its a pirate copy, the user can still play, but certain feature are slowly removed until the game is rendered unplayable. I think ARMA 3 turns you into a bird eventually, lol.
Then again, I guess that would make too much sense. Again, this better not inconvenience me in the slightest.
[EDIT: Yep, according to Wikipedia I am correct.]
Then again, I guess that would make too much sense. Again, this better not inconvenience me in the slightest.
[EDIT: Yep, according to Wikipedia I am correct.]
Wikipedia said:
Boss Mog
Member
It will get hacked and pirated for sure, very quickly too I bet. In the end this move will only hurt the legitimate buyers as usual. Even R* themselves know it won't work since they delayed the PC version until after the holidays. No matter what a publisher might say, the only reason they delay a PC version over others is because they don't want to lose console sales to PC piracy and that's it.
serenewarfare
Banned
Possible? Yeah. Probable? I don't think so. As I've said multiple times already, GTA on PC is a much bigger deal than FIFA on PC. As such, the amount of attention and time spent trying to crack it will be much greater.
That system has already been cracked though.
Exactly, fuck this shit
Freeman
Banned
Boss★Moogle;137708566 said:
R* is so smart that I wouldn't doubt that after the game sells for months on current gen consoles they show up saying that they changed their minds and the PC version won't have DRM, so it sells even more on PC than it would've otherwise while having only positive impact on console sales.
R* going for the triple dip.
Yes I can and I can say that because there is no proof that having a PC version launch the same day hurts console sales and there is no proof that slapping on more and more DRM improves PC sales either. In fact for the DRM part there has actually been reports that it hurts sales on the PC. Just ask Ubisoft and EA.
For all you know maybe if Bethesda did follow Rockstars example they would of sold less on the PC.
And which platform sells more is irrelevant to this argument because I never argued that the PC version outsells the console versions of games. My argument is that the existence of a PC version with no crazy DRM and released day and date with the consoles doesn't seem to hurt the sales of the console versions and I am going to need some hard proof that it does before I stop complaining about publishers being ass clowns when the pull shit like this to their paying PC customers.
That is a defeatist attitude. I think we can all agree that piracy is wrong. So I support companies making efforts to take strong measures to protect their hard earned assets. Of course, ideally a solution comes along that is as convenient for legitimate buyers as possible. And I fully support people's outrage over poorly implemented DRM; if you do not speak up then companies will not strive for better. But no DRM at all is just not an option.
prove it
Great. If you've read your article you've linked, you'd know that a rootkit circumvents normal means of low level (i.e. "Administrator" or "root") access, which SecuROM doesn't do (to the best of my knowledge).
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I'll let you prove it to yourself.
- Pick a game that has secuROM.
- Run the game.
- Uninstall the game.
- Try and remove secuROM from your system.
Which is why I consider Steam's DRM to be the perfect compromise. It killed day 0 piracy on the PC which was a huge problem dead and is pretty benign to most people. Companies trying to add more DRM on top of that are just being ass clowns in my book.
how does adding a non-steam game to your steam library and playing it (available via the +add a game function on steam) have anything to do with piracy?
texhnolyze
Banned
Injectors are probably out of the picture.
Don't expect mods right away.
People who don't know any better, in other words. People who flip out at any article talking about how many people downloaded a torrent of their company's game. The old pirated copy = lost sale thing.
Portugeezer
Gold Member
GTA is too big to give a shit. On top of that this DRM is supposedly not cracked; bring on the glorious PC sales figures.
But GTA will get pirated a lot, some people just won't pay for shit if they don't have to, IMO GTA is big enough for that to be a substantial amount of sales.
As a legitimate consumer it would suck however, so I understand peoples complaints.
But GTA will get pirated a lot, some people just won't pay for shit if they don't have to, IMO GTA is big enough for that to be a substantial amount of sales.
As a legitimate consumer it would suck however, so I understand peoples complaints.
paperspace
Member
Ah, come on. The majority of them are in poverty and/or are under the age of 15
Teletraan1
Banned
Geez I am so conflicted on which version of this game to get. After the obvious 30fps confirmation for PS4 I was going to wait for this version and see how the port went and then decide. New DRM is always scary. I don't trust the people behind this DRM since they have put some nasty shit on my PC in the past. I will probably just cave and get the PS4 version since I didn't have much hope for a good port that my now aging computer can actually run.
What exactly are you implying here? That the normal SecuROM uninstaller doesn't do its job? I don't really care if the uninstaller or "removal tool" actually works. An uninstaller doing a shitty job doesn't make software a rootkit.
There's nothing stopping me from manually uninstalling SecuROM, just like there isn't anything stopping you from shifting the burden of proof.
DaciaJC
Gold Member
uncredited male
Member
I would say it still holds more or less. Any info we get about Steam from third parties tends to paint a picture of most sales coming at release and then when a game is featured during a sale. And PC games tend to depreciate much quicker than their console counterparts.
Now games with monetized online services are obviously different.
I would like to add that I don't agree with Rockstar's decision but I can see why they and others will try things like this.
jellies_two
Member
No, that was the oft quoted convenient definition of rootkit when SecuROM was a big activism thing, but just because pc users co-opted a term that was and still is in use in more serious computing environments doesn't mean they can re-define it any way they like.
And just because SecuROM had issues with removal (I believe they fixed them) doesn't mean that whatever Rockstar has chosen will have the same issue. Rockstar are not stupid, and in a way, who better to use than the guys who went through the Securom PR debacle and learned from it?
There is absolutely no motivation for a DRM system to be malicious, unless by malicious you mean a pain in the ass to remove if you want to pirate the software.
Since nobody has any evidence this current solution is malicious, the term rootkit is pejorative and nothing more.
maybe.
but after Max Payne 3 I was already hesitant to buy any Rockstar game on PC again. When they decided we weren't good enough for a holiday release and instead had to wait 2 more months my interest went even lower.
Now with this? This isn't even Steam Sale worthy for me anymore. I wouldn't even care if it was something out of the way, but apparently it's a source of some of the issues in Lords of the Fallen. It's bad enough they decide to go with even more DRM, they choose one that affects the game just so they can maybe make another $5k from pirates too impatient to wait.
Freeman
Banned
I think that if the DRM works it certainly would sell more copies on PC, it's a matter of balancing how many people their DRM will piss off compared to how many people that would otherwise pirate will be getting the game. R*'s PR people sure have their work cut out for them. Also, if the people pissed by the DRM on PC end up buying the game on console its even better for R*(they sell you the game and can still sell you the PC copy in the future).
Its not like pirates have a sense of duty that compels them to boycott games that are able to stop piracy, its a matter of convenience, the convenience of not having to pay to play the game, some of them would certainly buy if they don't have an option to pirate.
Amazing that Rockstar is still shitting on the PC userbase in 2014 outside of Max Payne, the only series where the PC version is the definitive version.
Every single 3D GTA game has launched fucking poorly on PC, and it's been up to the PC community to fix every release. Just in the last year or so, GTA III and VC finally got decent controller support without using a keymapping program, and San Andreas is STILL getting fixed for many broken or missing features that are exclusively issues on the PC. Then there was GTA IV, which was one of the worst launches of any PC port ever put on the platform...
I was really, really hoping they learned. I hoped they were just sticking with Steam, just like how Bohemia did with ArmA III, even going so far as to remove its own DRM in that move. But no, we're back to a brute force "DRM will stop it all" card, and apparently it's yet another method that is creating issues in the games its featured in.
That's inhouse DRM. I think Bohemia made it themselves and Codemasters is the only external studio to have used it, and they probably knew how it worked when Bohemia made Operation Flashpoint under them.
Every single 3D GTA game has launched fucking poorly on PC, and it's been up to the PC community to fix every release. Just in the last year or so, GTA III and VC finally got decent controller support without using a keymapping program, and San Andreas is STILL getting fixed for many broken or missing features that are exclusively issues on the PC. Then there was GTA IV, which was one of the worst launches of any PC port ever put on the platform...
I was really, really hoping they learned. I hoped they were just sticking with Steam, just like how Bohemia did with ArmA III, even going so far as to remove its own DRM in that move. But no, we're back to a brute force "DRM will stop it all" card, and apparently it's yet another method that is creating issues in the games its featured in.
That's inhouse DRM. I think Bohemia made it themselves and Codemasters is the only external studio to have used it, and they probably knew how it worked when Bohemia made Operation Flashpoint under them.