Gamezone
Gold Member
I get that. But look at the number of people who pirated The Witcher and Wolfenstein. I get that most of these people wouldn`t have bought the game if they couldn`t pirate them, but still. The number is huge.
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Rumor: Grand Theft Auto V will use additional DRM on PC (Steam + Denuvo)
- Thread starter crimsonheadGCN
- Start date
I get that. But look at the number of people who pirated The Witcher and Wolfenstein. I get that most of these people wouldn`t have bought the game if they couldn`t pirate them, but still. The number is huge.
Vestal
Gold Member
But yet CDProject is a healthy company.. Why? Mainly because they have abstained from any form of DRM, by doing so they have garnered a sort of cult following and people are willing to double and sometimes triple dip purchases partly because they want to support the developer.
Well, this is one reason why I like having consoles as an option (and was up in arms over XB1 DRM), I like to have an out in case the DRM's an active pain in the ass, like with limited activations or damaging performance, and it did sound pretty rough for Lords of the Fallen. Though all versions of that were kind of a wreck I guess.
Is there any prove that the problem come from this DRM ?
The Witcher 2 did have DRM. They only removed it because it caused so much trouble and then decided to make it their "thing" after they got good press for it.
It was a shitty situation for a lot of people that bought it at launch, there were some quite severe performance problems because of the DRM.
Vigilant Gambit
Member
Pretty much my view of it. The first time it gets in the way, there will be hell to pay, but if it doesn't, then whatever.
I bought Assassin's Creed Revelations on sale once. Hooked up my laptop to my TV, plugged in the 360 controller dongle, and got all excited to play.
Then I found out that I had to log in to uPlay, but the servers were down, so I couldn't log in to authenticate the game.
I promptly added that game to my "Not to play" category. I still have not played it, to this day.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I don't have much experience with F2P, but people hacked the shit out of The Simpsons: Tapped Out. There were even sites selling hacked currency and items.
Gamezone
Gold Member
I get that too. The Witcher is pretty much the only game that I will by on physical discs for both PC and console.
How do we know its because of the DRM and not because of poor PC optimization? Fifa uses it as well and has no problems at all.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
The sales that happen during the "legs" are also more often than not very heavily discounted, so it seems logical to try to get as much as you can out of the first month or two.
Gamezone
Gold Member
I haven`t played it myself, so I don`t know.
But I do remember the GoG version of The Witcher was running better on my PC than the Steam version.
Derpcrawler
Member
IwantToSeeTheReceipts.gif
Based on what? Games runs like shit because of how it was coded. Fifa 15 runs really good and doesn't crash according to people who play it on PC.
Gamezone
Gold Member
Maybe I jumped to conclusions. I haven`t played any of these games on PC, but I read what other people said at different forums.
I think you're completely missing the point. CDPR accepts that they will make significant losses over the fact that they have no DRM at all. This has brought them loads of respect. But then again their games are getting pirated to death.
You can't say "look, CDPR doesn't care about the losses, therefore R* shouldn't care about the losses". It doesn't work like that. I love CDPR for what they're doing (free DLC, no DRM, etc) because they prioritize the consumer, and yes i wish every other company would do the same. But at the same time you need to understand why other companies don't want that, and realize that it should be completely acceptable.
Auto-Reply
Member
I only care if this hampers modding, if it will and Rockstar is not delivering on that front themselves (mainly vr) then I will not buy this until it gets thrown after me for a few bucks.
Windom Earle
Member
Count me into the camp that supports DRM as long as it is well done. This one apparently is not... And it has a shitty name. Thanks Rockstar. 
Rockstar shouldn't care about the losses because people will buy this game regardless. We're talking about the fastest selling game EVER here.
It doesn't, at least not in Fifa's case. There's mods out for it that don't interfere with the DRM.
Do you really believe that?
I think the more likely scenario is that a strong majority of people that would have pirated the game just won't bother playing it at all.
GTAV will make money because it's GTA. I don't think stopping pirates (initially) will magically increase their profits this time by a "huge" amount.
Count me into the camp that supports DRM as long as it is well done. This one apparently is not... And it has a shitty name. Thanks Rockstar.
How isn't this one well done?
Wrong. Witcher 2 had SecuROM*. They patched it out though, which landed them in some hot water. Surprisingly, the DRM made the game run like shit.
*Depending on where you purchased it, GoG release was DRM free. But still, it's a good example of a dev who cares about their user base
Barack Lesnar
Banned
I think he has a point. If this completely eliminated piracy, the pirates would have no choice but to eventually buy the game or they'd have nothing to play in their hobby. Most likely they'd buy it at a 75-90% discount a year later or something but it would still give pubs money. They wouldn't just not play the games if every game (save for F2P) were not able to be pirated. They would have to quit the hobby and odds are that's not going to happen.
Windom Earle
Member
See feedback on Lords of the Fallen. If it makes the game run bad and/or crashes... That's horrible.
Or pirate the console version where the DRM isn't there.
How do we know its the DRM? Fifa uses it as well and it runs completely fine. Isn't it more likely that it's just a shitty port that isn't optimized well?
It depends on the overhead. I don't think Fifa is that taxing on your hardware so the DRM might have more space, so to speak.
We'll know for sure once GTAV is cracked and comparisons are made
Barack Lesnar
Banned
For this specific case, GTA5, you have a point. But obviously I meant in a broader sense for the future and next-gen consoles haven't been hacked yet and probably won't be for a very long time.
The PC version of LOTF is the best optimized, at least according to DF. I doubt the DRM has anything to do with performance issues, if the game runs like shit and crashes on PS4 then it's likely any PC issues stem from the same place.
So they have a cult following for doing something unique. If the new status quo is all games are DRM-free, they will no be longer unique in that respect, and lose whatever sales attributed to support for DRM-free stance.
Also CDP sure knows how to squeeze a penny, Witcher 2 was really cheap based on its scale vs development cost.
Psyrgery ES
Member
Heh, I still remember the GTA IV DRM days. Rockstar Club, Activations and more stuff that would make the game camera dizzy (as when Niko is drunk) as an anti-piracy mechanic but it would jump on legit users, or the game refusing to start just because.
There will be a lot of people that would have pirated it and not bought it regardless, but there are plenty of people who buy what they can't pirate.
A lot if the pro Drm people will act like everyone who isn't able to pirate it will purchase it, which is kind of laughable, but with a high profile title like GTA5 I think a lot of people will drop the cash if the can't pirate it.
That being said I'm still against the inclusion of drm.
Steam isn't painfully intrusive or hinders performance and has the trade off of giving access to your library across multiple computers (assuming they didn't double dip on DRM anyway as this would) never mind the other additions they added over the years, and Netflix is effectively in the same category as a cable subscription: you're getting a service that grants you access to content, so being indignant you can't properly own that without restrictions is just being daft.
Granted some people ARE hardline, but you have to consider the situation and the context, and stuff like this definitely isn't int he same category as Steam while Netflix has next to no relevance in the discussion.
I seriously doubt it'll be uncrackable. It might take awhile, but if the game is good enough to be deemed 'worth it' by the scene, it will get cracked eventually. Even forced online like Diablo 3 and Simcity, private servers could have been made, but the games were so terrible that nobody gave enough of a fuck to do it. People will give enough of a fuck with GTAV.
There's thousands upon thousands of PC games that have been released over the years that someone could go back and play whilst they wait for a crack rather than eat up GTAV on release day and I think many Pirates will do just that. These people simply aren't willing to spend money on games, I'd say a strong portion won't cave for the latest GTA.
Ultimately we're all throwing around a lot of assumptions, just have to wait and see what happens, but I just think chances are this DRM won't make the majority of Pirates go buy the game. Or as you said, they'll wait until a heavy, heavy sale, which I guess is better than nothing but still not what Rockstar/2K is looking for, they want to maximize sales early.
alexandros
Banned
Lords of the Fallen doesn't run poorly and the crashes were Physx related I believe.
It's not about making a majority of the pirates go buy the game. It's about making as many as possible buy it. If the crack takes a day, I'm sure there's people who will cave and just buy it. If the crack takes a week, I'm sure there's going to be even more people that just give up and buy it. If it takes a year then you'll eventually have people who grab it on sale instead of waiting for the crack.
I was a victim of that horse shit. :-(
I don't think any DRM is uncrackable, except maybe for online-only games like Diablo 3, but I'm fairly sure that's been cracked too. IIRC, it took about a year before one of the Splinter Cell games had a working crack.
Please, whatever you do, do not pursue a career in anything related to business or economics.
Yes, i do believe that. Their games are some of the most popular, so when the game hits and the torrent is on the top of pirate bay, do you realize how much of a loss they're making?
Now add the DRM, and none of these people have access to the game without purchasing it. The fact is that it would be a lot of these people will end up buying the game as they get impatient and/or realize the game can't be cracked. Especially months after release when they realize they still can't get it (Fifa 15, LotF still no crack). I don't see why it matters how many of these people actually do buy it though. A profit is a profit.
Until you realize that people are pirating the game because they want it?
Do you honestly think every single one of those pirates will just not buy the game if they can't pirate it? They pirate the game because they want it without having to pay for it. If they can't do that, then their next best option is to just buy it, otherwise they can fuck off. However a lot of these people really do want the game, that's why they're there trying to pirate the thing. I'm honestly shocked that you believe these people just go "welp, can't be pirated, not going to buy it ever".
EDIT:
THIS, people. THIS.
originalself
Neo Member
Even if the drm only lasts two months it will pay for itself. Amazes me how many pirates will buy $400 video cards but not$60 games.
alexandros
Banned
We don't have any indication that this DRM hurts performance or causes problems. It's apparently not an always online deal and it seems to be effective. I'm willing to give this a fair shot.
Mostly I agree. I just find the notion that they'll get "huge" profits out of this a tad extreme. As popular as GTA is, there's plenty of Pirates out there who would be willing to wait, and just play something else in the meantime. PC players will have already waited 1.5 years by the time it releases, really what would another 1, 2 or even 6 months matter to someone who just wants to play it for free anyway?
Is the extra sales they get really going to be enough to cover whatever cost is involved with contracting Denuvo for the DRM? I guess they've done their research and deemed it worth it, so we'll wait and see.
Derpcrawler
Member
He doesn't have a point, he just spewing bullshit, none of current gen console have any piracy...
Braag
Member
I hate to say it but it'll be hacked sooner or later. It took SecuROM a full year before it was hacked.
Unfortunately DRM usually has negative effects in games such as crashing, performance loss or other similar issues.
I mean I was gonna play Mass Effect couple of week ago and I couldn't launch the game because I had apparently hit my activation limit (3 times), I had to contact EA support which took a while so they could to reset my activation limit. In the end DRM will always end up hurting the paying customers more than pirates.
Unfortunately DRM usually has negative effects in games such as crashing, performance loss or other similar issues.
I mean I was gonna play Mass Effect couple of week ago and I couldn't launch the game because I had apparently hit my activation limit (3 times), I had to contact EA support which took a while so they could to reset my activation limit. In the end DRM will always end up hurting the paying customers more than pirates.
A game that remains un cracked? I doubt it. Which games are you talking about?
crazyrabbits
Banned
Keep in mind that publishers daring people to crack their DRM almost always results in hackers breaking it in the first week. This isn't like LotF or FIFA (which are comparative lower-scale releases). Ubisoft tried the same thing with SecuROM on Assassin's Creed II (as well as introduced a performance-degrading bug in the PC version) that was quickly hacked and released a couple days after its release.
The same thing happened with Activision when they crowed about how Modern Warfare 2's DRM when uncrackable. Hackers took it as a challenge and broke the game wide open within 48 hours, adding in all kinds of additional features that made it better than the console releases.
You can bet dollars to donuts that there are some enterprising hacker groups out there right now who are looking at this and getting riled up enough to consider it a momentary challenge. Especially for a new DRM system.
The same thing happened with Activision when they crowed about how Modern Warfare 2's DRM when uncrackable. Hackers took it as a challenge and broke the game wide open within 48 hours, adding in all kinds of additional features that made it better than the console releases.
You can bet dollars to donuts that there are some enterprising hacker groups out there right now who are looking at this and getting riled up enough to consider it a momentary challenge. Especially for a new DRM system.