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Rumor: Grand Theft Auto V will use additional DRM on PC (Steam + Denuvo)
- Thread starter crimsonheadGCN
- Start date
Are 3rd party publishers really this stupid nowadays? Did Rockstar learned nothing from other companies that were given flack for the always-online DRM scandals on PC versions of games like Assassin's Creed II, Diablo III, & last year's SimCity?
Nobody wants DRM on their games! Period!
Nobody wants DRM on their games! Period!
Sentenza
Member
Well, I'm not sure I would mention Diablo III as an example of game that "nobody wants" and should teach something to publishers, given its sales.
texhnolyze
Banned
Indeed, but the devs don't want their games easily pirated.
Dr Mayonnaise
Member
Guess I will be buying GTA 5 on PS4 than or just pass all together
jellies_two
Member
The term root kit is hella dilute on a windows box.
What games can be installed without administrator privs?
Sentenza
Member
We weren't talking about games.
serenewarfare
Banned
As much as I don't want R* losing a bunch of money, after this it'd be hilarious if this gets cracked day 1. I don't think it will, it'll probably be a few weeks, but man would they have serious egg on their face.
FlutterPuffs
Member
After having my save file disappear for no reason in Max Payne 3 thanks to Rockstar Social Club, I'd be wary of buying one of their games on PC.
I was halfway in the game too. Got so fed up that I just borrowed someone else's Social Club for their save file.
I was halfway in the game too. Got so fed up that I just borrowed someone else's Social Club for their save file.
MDSLKTR
Gold Member
Yeah going ps4 with this.
FUCK THAT happened to me too. And no steam cloud on top or this.
jellies_two
Member
I'm just saying people throw the rootkit term like it means something. It means something in the server world where to gain root is to gain complete control. But any game, with or without DRM, has huge control over your PC, and you're only choosing to trust the ones you think are not malicious. Labelling some DRM as a rootkit seems like selective blindness to me. Is it malicious? not proven to be.
Yeah. I hope it does work flawlessly anyway because I've been waiting a long time for this game. The PC version would be my version of choice.
Welp. There had to be something. Rockstar's past attitude towards mods combined with this makes me very worried for the most important reason I want this on PC: mods. Don't fuck it up now *R, please don't. Not after all this "doing shit right" thing they've had going on this week. Maybe it won't be that bad. Maybe.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Yeah but you may need a crack as well which might take less than 24 hours, or it might take weeks, or even months.
I'm not sure tbh. I haven't paid any attention to Mordor whatsoever, I try to ignore games my computer can't possibly play :lol.
jellies_two
Member
because as the makers of the DRM proudly proclaim on their web page, it took 46 days before an older version was cracked from release day. Which, also proudly proclaimed, happened over the critical first month of sales, and was unprecedented duration of anti-piracy.
So that is what Rockstar is buying from them and yeah I think 2K thinks it won't be on any bay within 24 hours of release or maybe even weeks.
Sentenza
Member
The point is not even if it will prevent piracy as much as if it will increase sales.
Armchair business adviser: chances are that investing half of what they are spending to implement this DRM in some effort to increase the game's appeal for legitimate customers (i.e. Steam workshop integration?) would serve them much better in terms of copies sold.
uncredited male
Member
The majority of video game sales are heavily front-loaded. It you can keep it from being pirated for a few months you can probably justify to investors that it gained you tangible sales.
It really amazes me how backwards Rockstar or Take 2 are with the PC release of GTAV. When Japanese developers/publishers are starting to be less shit then you are at PC releases then you have a fucking problem.
PC games though tend to have very long tails if they are good and well supported. In my opinion they would of been better served by spending the money they spent on this DRM to add robust mod support for example.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Part of the definition of a rootkit is that it obfuscates running processes.
Games don't do that.
Certain DRM solutions (but not all) do.
If you ctrl+alt+del and can see all of a programs running processes, its not a rootkit.
outunderthestars
Banned
Well said. This game is not getting my money.
OsirisBlack
Banned
This does indeed bring up a very serious issue though. I have believed for quite some time there are some games that stay console exclusive because of pirating and this makes me wonder how bad it must be.
I cannot fault R* for actually wanting to get paid for their work and some of the complaints in this thread are cringe worthy. If pirating is bad enough to keep great games off of PC we should not be mad at the studios we should be mad at people pirating games.
My thoughts exactly.
I cannot fault R* for actually wanting to get paid for their work and some of the complaints in this thread are cringe worthy. If pirating is bad enough to keep great games off of PC we should not be mad at the studios we should be mad at people pirating games.
My thoughts exactly.
Sentenza
Member
That's not even necessarily true on PC.
It's obviously incredibly purposeful.
Piracy is much less rampant on consoles.. so they always release there first to maximize sales, leaving the PC last.
GTA V is by far the most obvious one, and this heavy DRM proves it even further.
It's a sales strategy and it's worked famously for them.
The truth is it's probably in the millions how many PC owners bought the console version who wouldn't have if it had released on PC. They'd have pirated it on PC and never paid for another version. There's money in the PC market.. especially long-term post release sales.. but you are best served focusing your launches on consoles.
texhnolyze
Banned
FIFA 15 and Lords of the Fallen proved that the DRM is indeed hard to crack.
FIFA 15 has been around for months.
serenewarfare
Banned
It can't be too bad considering a major PC publisher in CDPR is still releasing their games without DRM of any sort.
GTA V is orders of magnitude bigger of a deal on PC than FIFA. There will be a much greater effort to crack it. Not saying that assures a crack, but the fact that FIFA and LotF haven't been doesn't say much about GTA V.
Masterz117
Banned
Can someone explain to me why this is bad for people who didn't plan on pirating the game? Is it that Rockstar essentially owns the game and you don't?
Sentenza
Member
I never liked the term but holy shit if this doesn't read as "concern trolling".
I don't see why did you bother asking when you obviously don't actually care about the answer, since this was argued for pages already.
Conkerkid11
Member
Performance issues, and the possibility that it will prevent modding.
texhnolyze
Banned
How come?
FIFA is like the most popular football/soccer game on earth. It's so successful so EA managed to release the game annually since decades ago.
Aside from many DRM solutions being an inconvenience, they also often create some sort of reliance on a service that can go down at times, or perhaps even be discontinued some day.
There's games you can download on Steam that you bought in the past that might not work because of some DRM that just isn't compatible with other software anymore, or used an online server that doesn't exist.
Sentenza
Member
Plus the generic distrust for something like this installing on your OS and doing some obscure shit in background that you won't have any control over.
It's a dumb strategy mostly because it doesn't seem to be based in reality. Skyrim didn't seem to have any problems selling with a PC version day and date, the Call of Duties seem to sell fine as well, and the list goes on. In fact I can't think of a console game that did terrible because it had a PC version launch the same day. When you are pretty much the only major publisher still doing this that should in my humble opinion tell you it is bullshit.
Masterz117
Banned
I'm sorry? I was just wondering; all the comments I've seen in this thread haven't actually explained what's so bad about the DRM. Sorry I offended you.
To everyone else who responded: thanks for explaining.
Sounds good to me. Pirates are my enemy #1 in this industry.
because it's unnecessary? Those who plan to buy legit or going to buy legit. Those who plan to pirate are going to pirate.
it took me an hour to get Max Payne 3 to play because you were required to use their Social Club (at least on first sign in, not sure if it was required after that)
kitschbeam
Member
I guess I'll pick up the PS4 version
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
Laughable that this shit still happens in 2014.
Then why do so many people buy from Steam? Steam's greatest achievement is getting people to completely accept DRM.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
And meanwhile Witcher 3 will have no DRM and all DLC for free.
Which way is the right way to go, publishers? Think carefully.
Which way is the right way to go, publishers? Think carefully.
Yeah there are some great sales successes on the PC, like Bethesda games for instance.
But you can't just point out outliers and call Rockstar's strategy bullshit. Most PC game launch sales are dwarfed by their console sales.. and the amount of piracy on PC dwarfs the amount of piracy on consoles. These are just facts.
And for all you know, Bethesda would make 10's of millions more if they sold on consoles first.
I'd SO much rather Rockstar not do it this way.. same with them seemingly not giving half a shit about GTA IV's PC engine being remotely optimized.. but I don't think it's a financial backfire for them, I really don't.
For people saying this, is the DRM really that bad that you would rather play at 30fps instead of 60 and whatever resolution you can handle? Honestly curious.
If Steam is DRM then I love DRM I guess. I can't think of a time when Steam has ever inconvenienced me since I began using in 2004.
Edit: OK some auto-updates were a pain but I can turn those off.
jellies_two
Member
Things are not simple like that. You can't tell anymore by googling a list of executable names. Multi-threaded executables may do something malicious in one thread and legit in the rest. Or DLLs can be installed that do things during constant API calls.
All you are saying is that rootkits are malicious, no argument.
But just because something is DRM and doesn't conveniently advertise itself as a process "here_is_the_drm.exe" that can be killed, doesn't make it a malicious. Rootkit is just a convenient label to try to embarrass anti-piracy code away.
I would say however that if you quit the game and delete it, the DRM should vanish, not linger around. Lingering would be malicious.