Chainsawkitten
Member
If I were to read a review, I'd rather it be from someone who has similar experience as myself, i.e. suck absolute ass at playing first person games on a controller.
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So, Polygon 'playing' Doom...
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If I were to read a review, I'd rather it be from someone who has similar experience as myself, i.e. suck absolute ass at playing first person games on a controller.
Naaaaaahhh bruh, I see you. Dont sneak that in there. Nah uh. NOPE.
In the case of a consumer looking for a review, "most people" would hope the person reviewing knows what they're doing.
SirPenguin
Member
I generally agree that you shouldn't have to be a gaming expert to review games, and that having such a requirement would force all reviews to paint with the same big brush
But it's a real weakness that there really isn't a mechanism to communicate a reviewer's skills to the reader. Imagine an alternate universe where you get the review but there is no video, and the reviewer is ripping the game on its controls, difficulty, or combat in general.
How can you possibly begin to know the 'real' reasons for their feelings? And good luck trying to disagree with the reviewer - if you dare accuse him of being bad at the game you'll have a horde of people mocking you for perpetuating the "get gud" mentality.
It must create an awfully awkward situation for game developers. We say reviews, impressions, or videos don't truly 'matter', but they obviously do, especially from big sites. We're talking sales, your salary or bonuses, whether or not you have a job next year, whether or not your company even exists next year, etc. They matter a great deal
It would drive me nuts to be forced to take into a consideration the 1% of the 1%'s skill levels just because they have the loudest voice and reach
But it's a real weakness that there really isn't a mechanism to communicate a reviewer's skills to the reader. Imagine an alternate universe where you get the review but there is no video, and the reviewer is ripping the game on its controls, difficulty, or combat in general.
How can you possibly begin to know the 'real' reasons for their feelings? And good luck trying to disagree with the reviewer - if you dare accuse him of being bad at the game you'll have a horde of people mocking you for perpetuating the "get gud" mentality.
It must create an awfully awkward situation for game developers. We say reviews, impressions, or videos don't truly 'matter', but they obviously do, especially from big sites. We're talking sales, your salary or bonuses, whether or not you have a job next year, whether or not your company even exists next year, etc. They matter a great deal
It would drive me nuts to be forced to take into a consideration the 1% of the 1%'s skill levels just because they have the loudest voice and reach
There's gotta be similarly funny gifs of reviewers playing Stellaris poorly....
This just reminds me of the giantbomb guys talkin about their inflated sense of egos when playing during the press only multiplayer sessions.
I don't understand how a low skill perspective is any less important. It's just a different review not a worse one. Are people really acting like this is the only review that matters and it has to be as objective as possible to stand on its own as the end all be all of reviews for all future generations?
This just reminds me of the giantbomb guys talkin about their inflated sense of egos when playing during the press only multiplayer sessions.
I don't understand how a low skill perspective is any less important. It's just a different review not a worse one. Are people really acting like this is the only review that matters and it has to be as objective as possible to stand on its own as the end all be all of reviews for all future generations?
A preview is meant to give an impression of how the game works, doesn't have to be perfect, but there are certain standards. This gives an unfairly negative impression of a game that a lot of people are on the fence about and desperate for information before throwing their money down. Add in Polygon locking down the comments (I can understand this to a degree) and likes/dislikes and it's hard to shake the impression they threw out the first thing they could make to get some clicks without any regard of what they're actually meant to be providing their userbase.
Glass Shark
Banned
love you
hemo memo
Gold Member
Yes and worse, a big food rating website count that review as acurate to the overall reviews rating number for that food becuase "opinions".
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Again, a veteran skilled reviewer should have the ability to give insight to both newcomers and veterans. If he doesn't that just means he's a veteran reviewer who could be writing a better, more inclusive review.
Having someone who has never played a game in a genre try to give a critical analysis is almost useless, and what little use it does have should be covered by a veteran reviewer if they're really good at their job. A newcomer doesn't bring any perspective that the veteran hasn't already experienced at some point in their life.
It's like saying you'd rather be taught how to draw by someone who has never tried drawing before, simply because you also have never drawn before. Any actual teacher of art worth their weight in salt should be able to contextualize the fact that you've never drawn before and teach from there.
This would be a dumb, pointless video. Who would it be for? People who don't like Mexican food aren't going to watch it because they don't like Mexican food.
And people who do like Mexican food are either going to see it, hear that the person doesnt like Mexican food and discredit his opinion on the matter because it isn't relevant to them, or worse, not find out that the person hates Mexican food and just assume that whatever burrito the person is reviewing tastes horrible because of how it was made.
gunslikewhoa
Member
Oh, but of course there's not ever going to be any sort of 'we've never played a vidyagame before' disclaimer attached to their professional review. When is the last time you've seen a reviewer say, 'Please keep in mind while reading this review, I've never done this before?'
yeah, end of thread
Why?
How does playing a game poorly reflect on the quality of the game? And we're not asking for mastery here, just someone who can move and shoot. The real issue is that the video tells me nothing of how the game plays, because the person holding the controller can't execute simple actions. That's not really a fair review.
The feedback on this particular video has been heard loud and clear. We're working on additional videos, a review and preview coverage for Doom.
But just to be clear, my clarification was meant to address that this video was somehow tied to the game's review, when it is not.
Tomeru
Member
Because it shows a bad game for someone new to it - and that is not true (meaning non functional more than good or bad). If that isnot important, then lets take the review of someone who never played chess, and hot rekt- as good metric. Reviews should aim to be universal and not aimed at a single audience. In this case, a more appropriate headline to the video, or atleast an explanation as to why the player played that way, would go a long way.
KatamariOnTheRocks
Member
I don't really see myself as an outlier though. I think there's just a divide between people who write about games that have a loose interest in the medium and those that play games in their free time, but have more passion for the medium and therefore more investment in it to the point of getting better.
I also wouldn't look to someone that's awful at anything for their opinion on it. Whether its games or anything else, if the person is inherently unskilled then their opinion is worthless even to other people that are unskilled because theres no way to distinguish whether that particular experience in question was bad due to the game or the player.
If the player is skilled then the problem is obviously the game, but if they both suck there's no way for you to know what the actual issue is.
Even unskilled players seeeking reviews from like-wise skilled reviewers may be mislead if the reviewer unfairly trashes the game because the reviewer was playing it incorrectly.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
You don't escape the quote bombing that easily!
A disclaimer would be nice, but to be fair we don't get disclaimers about reviewers from pros either, and pros may have a very different experience than the average buyer.
This is the bias you're bringing into your posts here.
I'm sure many of us here don't have an agenda to bash Polygon. Just watch the video itself and separate it from the source being Polygon, and share your opinion on that.
Although the person playing in the video apparently isn't the person writing the review, so this thread has become pretty irrelevant. When the reviewer is playing a game like this, then there is certainly cause for concern, otherwise we're all just poking fun at someone who isn't very good at FPS games.
Quoted for quote's sake.
Someone doesn't like green.
UnrealEck
Member
This honestly looks like the person playing has never played an FPS with a controller before.
I can remember a bit of how I was back in the early days of dual stick controllers in FPSes and this is what I was like. Trying to control movement and turning at the same time was the first noticeable thing I had to get used to. Same with my first time with M/KB.
I can remember a bit of how I was back in the early days of dual stick controllers in FPSes and this is what I was like. Trying to control movement and turning at the same time was the first noticeable thing I had to get used to. Same with my first time with M/KB.
h-help me...
Jacksinthe
Banned
Watching this video is the equivalent cringe level of someone opening up Chrome and using the nav bar to type Google.com to then use Google main page to type a search query.
JesseEwiak
Member
Well, putting aside this video, there's the Internet definition of "knowing what they're doing" and the actual consumer's definition of "knowing what they're doing."
I would argue most reviewers are closer to the average consumer than the actual "1% of 1% skill" who zero in on any mistake a member of the games press makes with a game on video.
This isn't a review though. It's a video about the game with no score or hell, real commentary posted.
Absolutely. You may disagree where that threshold lies, but I'm sure you wouldn't care to hear the review of somebody who can't even control a FPS game, for example.
blame space
Banned
let's talk more about burritos
Chainsawkitten
Member
Because their opinion is more likely to match how I will feel about the game.
It tells you how the game playes for someone who can't control it, i.e. me.
there's another end of the spectrum to this obviously, since we're talking difficulty and reviews
RPS did an article on Hyper Light Drifter specifically talking about how he loved the game but he "would never be able to continue sadly" cause the first boss he encountered felt super hard
he had to make another article apologizing for that
but
he really is hard
at least unusually hard for what you'd expect considering what the game throws at you before
he's also not necessarely the first boss depending on your path
but a lot of "hardcore ppl" still threw shade at him enough that he had to sorta retract his argument
in the end I apprecieted how that flowed and advanced, but it's an interesting entry in this whole argument
RPS did an article on Hyper Light Drifter specifically talking about how he loved the game but he "would never be able to continue sadly" cause the first boss he encountered felt super hard
he had to make another article apologizing for that
but
he really is hard
at least unusually hard for what you'd expect considering what the game throws at you before
he's also not necessarely the first boss depending on your path
but a lot of "hardcore ppl" still threw shade at him enough that he had to sorta retract his argument
in the end I apprecieted how that flowed and advanced, but it's an interesting entry in this whole argument
Hahaha perfect. This is hard to watch, and as long as it's not the person reviewing it, that's fine. I mean, you have to have a certain level of competency in playing a game to give a fair judgement I would say. And whoever was playing does not have that level of competency.
This thread is not irrelevant. There is sort of mini discussion going on here. an important question was asked:
And so, we now have our basis for a brand new debate!
The point is, you should not showcase a game played with a controller by a person who can not play with a controller.
'I know nothing about cars, and I can barely drive them. Please watch my review of this 'Audi S4'.
That review would be relatively useless. I'm not asking for a professional race car driver to get in the driver's seat, but I would need to see someone that reflects the average user. The average user of this game will at least be able to function at a basic level.
With rice.
Frozenprince
Banned
Is there more to the playthrough that's bad other than that one gif?
I need more than a (really good BTW) 5 second gif to tell if someone is bad at the game or not.
Even if he is, who cares, how do you know if he's improved or not while playing the review copy?
I need more than a (really good BTW) 5 second gif to tell if someone is bad at the game or not.
Even if he is, who cares, how do you know if he's improved or not while playing the review copy?
why end the thread? if anything I wanted it to spark a discussion and it has. and you're like one of the 3 people with that particular opinion
I know you were being facetious but that /thread stuff is silly
AgentChris
Member
Great idea. There definitely should be.
Why can't a reviewer write from their own poorly skilled perspective? Why is that not an acceptable perspective to people in this thread? There's no shortage of reviews and other perspectives so what does it matter? Are people afraid a customer might be misled by what a poorly skilled person thinks? That vacuum of information just doesn't exist though...
What if I want to find out if my girlfriend could play doom? I'd be looking for a review like this. It's foolish to just dismiss it.
I have difficulty holding both ends of the burrito at the same time.
Oh, they certainly can, and there is no shortage of that; similarly, I'm free to point out when someone isn't doing a job very well.
But this isn't the reviewer playing, so it doesn't apply here.
SirPenguin
Member
lmao, no, it's nothing like that at all
We're not talking about likes or dislikes. We're talking about motor skills.
This isn't a guy who doesn't like Mexican food - this is a guy who drops it on the floor and tries to eat the contents using a pair of salad tongs.
Is that a valid way to eat? I mean, sure, who am I to judge? But do I want him reviewing how the food tastes?
Jacksinthe
Banned
Competence.
You don't want me reviewing RTS games because I am horrible at them.
Also, every time I skipped around the video and landed on combat, yes, it's much worse than the GIF.
John Kowalski
Banned
It's not, but everyone's got to have a first time, and if Polygon's thing includes giving people who aren't as good with games a chance to review them then that's their thing and many other places will fill stricter requirements. I frankly don't see the problem with this existing, reviews have as of late been given many freedoms to satisfy other kinds of critical needs, merit of the explosion of content that exists these days, and all things being the same (which they generally are, the reviews of old still exist, even if somewhat displaced), more stuff of other kinds is never a bad thing. That is, is what you're suggesting is indeed the case.
It's still a video that a gaming-focused website felt was okay for putting up as representation of the site's gaming coverage, which is unbelievable to me.
Piston Hyundai
Member
are you just trying to start arguments at this point
Lol. I foresee many great analogies of this debacle.
IrishNinja
Member
That may very well be true.
But the job of a review, any review really, is to give someone with a passing interest in the subject an idea of what to expect. To use the car analogy again, I wouldn't really take the opinion of someone who doesn't drive cars, or have a deep knowledge or experience with cars, on a particular vehicle. Someone is of course free to review whatever they like, but when someone asks 'Umm... Why should I take your review seriously if you're not intimately aware of the subject matter?'
Jacksinthe
Banned
Not to continue to poke fun anymore but for those of you wondering why we are poking a bit of fun at the reviewer, here is a GIF that lays it out for you:
Sorry if this is mean, started as a gamedev meme.
Sorry if this is mean, started as a gamedev meme.
Movalpolos
Banned
It's like, if I am not a sneaker wearer.. and I review the latest Jay's? You would think my opinion is wack, right?
Good thing I DO WEAR JAYS YOOOO HOHOHOHOHOHOHOH
Pantaghana
Member
Impressions and feedback from someone that is unfamiliar with a control method, or has never played a game, are useful to game designers.
But in order to provide useful information to consumers, the person making the review needs to have some degree of competency for their opinion to have any weight.
It might a good laugh to see someone struggle and fail at something basic as "put head in crosshairs, pull trigger", but as a consumer the only thing that tells me is; "This person never played a game."
It doesn't tell me if the game the person failed at is worth my money, which is the entire point of a review.
If the review was written by one person, and the gameplay recorded by another that apparently only has a vague understanding of what an FPS is, my only question is: why?
With all the modern recording software console recording features, you'd think that the person writing the review would have made some clips themselves while playing the game.
But in order to provide useful information to consumers, the person making the review needs to have some degree of competency for their opinion to have any weight.
It might a good laugh to see someone struggle and fail at something basic as "put head in crosshairs, pull trigger", but as a consumer the only thing that tells me is; "This person never played a game."
It doesn't tell me if the game the person failed at is worth my money, which is the entire point of a review.
If the review was written by one person, and the gameplay recorded by another that apparently only has a vague understanding of what an FPS is, my only question is: why?
With all the modern recording software console recording features, you'd think that the person writing the review would have made some clips themselves while playing the game.
Tomeru
Member
If you cant control a game, you shouldnt need to hear someone elses' opinion on how they can't control it. What can you possibly take from that kind of review?
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