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[The Artisan]

Yeah pretty much, kinda pointless to argue with him really you're not gonna get anywhere

everybody in this thread has had to learn that the hard way :\ some people are still taking him seriously

so sony decided not to agree to crossplay MS is going to hold updates hostage. this is a game they already sold on psn and updated prior to this. its as much MS fault as it is sonys. they could do the updates without crossplay, they are choosing not to do so.

all the other platforms are on board with the update. it is built around dedicated shared servers meaning cross play is inevitable and required so no, it can't be done without cross play. so how is any of this mS's fault for making the game better?

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Got home from work and my kids have heard the news. They've been going on non stop that we need to get an Xbox. To quote my 11 year old "PlayStation needs to step up their game. No crossplay, no backward compatibility...What are they thinking!"

 

[Moneal]

everybody in this thread has had to learn that the hard way :\ some people are still taking him seriously
all the other platforms are on board with the update. it is built around dedicated shared servers meaning cross play is inevitable and required so no, it can't be done without cross play. so how is any of this mS's fault for making the game better?

the only platform that has to be on board with this is Nintendo. PC and android are open MS can do what ever they want. Also I play many mobile games that use the same servers for both android and apple, so i doubt apple had to sign off on this either. as everyone knows Nintendo is pretty backwards on anything online related so yea this is a good move for them.

 

[The Artisan]

the only platform that has to be on board with this is Nintendo. PC and android are open MS can do what ever they want. Also I play many mobile games that use the same servers for both android and apple, so i doubt apple had to sign off on this either. as everyone knows Nintendo is pretty backwards on anything online related so yea this is a good move for them.

unless we have a source that Apple didn't need to sign off, we are just assuming. This would be a good move for Sony to. mS isn't holding Sony back with the Ps4 versions of Minecraft, Sony is holding their user base back from an upgraded version of Ps4 for Minecraft

 

[barybll]

Sounds like MS found the perfect way to drop PR bombs on sony
Just invite Sony on crossplay partnerships then watch the dumpster fire

 

[kennyamr]

The comment from that executive is just a really silly, bad justification they made up on the spot for some reason.
The real answer is just about money so I guess they think that would create a bigger backlash in the end.
Business-wise it's a good decision so I understand why they do it.
However it'd be awesome if everyone could play in the same servers regardless of the console.
I wonder if Sony is just waiting for Microsoft to give in and pay up some kind of fee to them in order to reduce the risk of a deal like that.
They know Microsoft and also Nintendo would benefit a lot from this and know that they need it to grow. Sony definitely has the upper hand here so they don't want to give that advantage away for free.
It may happen but it may not.
Also, there is a big chance that if Microsoft was in Sony's shoes as market leader, they would do the same exact thing, again because business-wise it is the way to go.
I don't blame them for that... but yea, it sucks.

 

[LukasTaves]

Imagine if Ms and Nintendo buddied up and made a joint project with cross play 😍

Something like Squids vs Sunset Overdrive

Nintendo joining in and the games that they agreed to it really changed the nature of the conversation around this.

When it was just Microsoft, Sony could stand behind their "we have nothing to gain" from this stance and gamers would back them on it. Clearly they could see the benefits when it comes to allowing crossplay with some PC games, but they can dance around a PR line and avoid helping Microsoft before. Now that Nintendo gets involved, it becomes much harder to defend the decisions, especially when the advantages for gamers, developers, and platform holders in the long run seems better than the disadvantages.

Obviously it must have technical hurdles that may be tough to navigate to some degree, but Sony is getting greedy over online currency that just won't have the same value if there is a fundamental shift to how people are able to play online and that can happen without them if developers are able to unify every other platform.

I mean, an install base of 60 million is nice, but not every single one of those people play every game online. You combine all the players of a game across all other platforms and an online game can just prosper far more.

It's really an exciting prospect that I think Sony will fight hard against until it's absolutely clear that the tides have changed. I think they already have, but honestly, Sony doesn't necessarily lose out by changing their mind late in the game since it's basically like they just flip a switch and they get the same advantages. So in terms of hardware competition with MS or Nintendo, it won't hurt Sony unless they stick to their guns for years and the other systems make up lost ground, but I think if there are more games like Minecraft when Sony is the only platform with a different version of a game and maybe not getting all the current updates or even features immediately because of it, it will hurt the gamers and their version of the game. You get enough games like that and it will end up hurting the system.

Agreed, it's one thing to not have cross play happen at all, but when it's happening to all platforms but yours it definitely does more harm than allowing cross play would.

For example say the next rocket League is announced today for all platforms but all except PS4 gets cross play. Likely every multi console owner would get another version whereas it could get the PS4 one.

 

[firehawk12]

So is this the moment that foreshadows that PS5 will be announced at 600 dollars and someone tells us that we should be happy to have three jobs to buy a Sony console?

 

[Moneal]

unless we have a source that Apple didn't need to sign off, we are just assuming. This would be a good move for Sony to. mS isn't holding Sony back with the Ps4 versions of Minecraft, Sony is holding their user base back from an upgraded version of Ps4 for Minecraft

actually it is assuming either way for apple, since we don't know.

all the other platforms are on board with the update. it is built around dedicated shared servers meaning cross play is inevitable and required so no, it can't be done without cross play. so how is any of this mS's fault for making the game better?

where is it stated that it is built around dedicated shared servers? none of the things mentioned in the update are stopped by not having dedicated servers. MS just chose to put them behind that requirement.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

So in Minecraft I can now play with even MORE random people. Or I suppose, I can play with a friend who isn't a good enough friend for me to be in the same ecosystem to begin with.

Or, you can participate in massive online communities, in infinite world servers populated by thousands and backed by a web presence, where any number of friends, the ones you know irl and the ones you met online, can join you, where you can establish a meaningful presence in a huge shared world...

You know, the absolute best thing about Minecraft on any platform. It's biggest selling point. The reason the PC version of the game remains the most popular platform to play the game on.

Everyone gets to get together now, build communities and worlds together. And you're reducing that to "Oh sweet, more randoms."

I mean you just implied that if someone's not in the same console ecosystem with you, they're not a good enough friend??? Not worth playing with? Man, oh man.

What about kids with classmates and families on other platforms? What about parents who want to play with their children on Android, iOS or console? What about friends who'd like to join one server and build together but own different versions of the game and can do that now?

 

[The Artisan]

actually it is assuming either way for apple, since we don't know.

which is why we can't say they didn't sign off either, not unless you have a source.

where is it stated that it is built around dedicated shared servers? none of the things mentioned in the update are stopped by not having dedicated servers. MS just chose to put them behind that requirement.

you're not a developer and neither am I, and the takeaway from mojang's announcement is that the new update is built around cross play.

So this Summer, all platforms receiving the Better Together Update will then have a server browser in the Minecraft start menu.

https://minecraft.net/en-us/article/all-news-e3

 

[Cerium]

Artisan, it's simpler to explain it this way:

This isn't a patch, this is basically the closest thing to Minecraft 2 we are ever likely to get. Switch and Xbox will be downloading entirely new clients built in a different engine (Bedrock) and a different codebase that will be shared with every other modern version.

Up until now the console editions were developed by 4J, which was a secondary studio formed to create and maintain these console ports. The new versions will be managed by Mojang directly and will have parity with PC and mobile.

Crossplay, dedicated servers, the community marketplace, and realms support are all baked into this new version. To bring the Bedrock Engine version of the game to PS4 in a way that accommodates Sony's stance on crossplay, you would need to tear into the code and rip all of that stuff out. This is a nontrivial effort, all to create a version of the update that is missing its core features.

They could theoretically do this, but why the fuck should anyone reasonably expect them to?

 

[Liliana Eileen]

Got home from work and my kids have heard the news. They've been going on non stop that we need to get an Xbox. To quote my 11 year old "PlayStation needs to step up their game. No crossplay, no backward compatibility...What are they thinking!"

My sisters son said something similar but not as elegant, lol

 

[The Artisan]

Artisan, it's simpler to explain it this way:

This isn't a patch, this is basically the closest thing to Minecraft 2 we are ever likely to get. Switch and Xbox will be downloading entirely new clients built in a different engine (Bedrock) and a different codebase that will be shared with every other modern version.

Up until now the console editions were developed by 4J, which was a secondary studio formed to create and maintain these console ports. The new versions will be managed by Mojang directly and will have parity with PC and mobile.

Crossplay, dedicated servers, the community marketplace, and realms support are all baked into this new version. To bring the Bedrock Engine version of the game to PS4 in a way that accommodates Sony's stance on crossplay, you would need to tear into the code and rip all of that stuff out. This is a nontrivial effort, all to create a version of the update that is missing its core features.

They could theoretically do this, but why the fuck should anyone reasonably expect them to?

Exactly, yes. You explained it more thoroughly and coherently than I did so all things considered, wouldn't the best course of action for the Minecraft community on playstation be to just accept it and allow the Bedrock update on Ps4?

 

[Cerium]

Exactly, yes. You explained it more thoroughly and coherently than I did so all things considered, wouldn't the best course of action for the Minecraft community on playstation be to just accept it and allow the Bedrock update on Ps4?

Absolutely. I've been keeping an eye on the reaction from Nintendo fans and there's a pervading sense of "Wow we're really getting this?! From Microsoft?!" Switch owners were largely already satisfied with the existing 4J port of Minecraft. Telling them that they will now have parity with PC, dedicated servers, infinite worlds, and all that sounds almost too good to be true.

I promise you no one gives a fuck about needing to link an XBL gamertag.

 

[binarymelon]

Has anyone started a push on social media to get Sony to reconsider yet?

 

[Moneal]

Absolutely. I've been keeping an eye on the reaction from Nintendo fans and there's a pervading sense of "Wow we're really getting this?! From Microsoft?!" Switch owners were largely already satisfied with the existing 4J port of Minecraft. Telling them that they will now have parity with PC, dedicated servers, infinite worlds, and all that sounds almost too good to be true.

I promise you no one gives a fuck about needing to link an XBL gamertag.

consumers would should never have a problem with any of this, and I haven't seen any that do. People here saying sony is bad or stupid don't understand that there is more to business than PR, which is the only game MS is playing right now. The whole BC and Crossplay stuff is just that PR. They are championing those now, but they were the ones at the beginning of this gen downplaying and declining those things. The only thing that has change is their marketshare.

 

[Cerium]

consumers would should never have a problem with any of this, and I haven't seen any that do. People here saying sony is bad or stupid don't understand that there is more to business than PR, which is the only game MS is playing right now. The whole BC and Crossplay stuff is just that PR. They are championing those now, but they were the ones at the beginning of this gen downplaying and declining those things. The only thing that has change is their marketshare.

As consumers it isn't really our job to make excuses for Sony.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

Absolutely. I've been keeping an eye on the reaction from Nintendo fans and there's a pervading sense of "Wow we're really getting this?! From Microsoft?!" Switch owners were largely already satisfied with the existing 4J port of Minecraft. Telling them that they will now have parity with PC, dedicated servers, infinite worlds, and all that sounds almost too good to be true.

I promise you no one gives a fuck about needing to link an XBL gamertag.

didn't realize 4j no longer working on minecraft interesting

 

[Cerium]

didn't realize 4j no longer working on minecraft interesting

They will still be maintaining the legacy versions on Wii U, Vita, 360, PS3, and PS4.

 

[Moneal]

As consumers it isn't really our job to make excuses for Sony.

who is making excuses? I just understand it from a business perspective. just because you are a consumer doesn't mean you can't understand business decisions.

 

[TheQuickBrownFox]

Got home from work and my kids have heard the news. They've been going on non stop that we need to get an Xbox. To quote my 11 year old "PlayStation needs to step up their game. No crossplay, no backward compatibility...What are they thinking!"

I haven't been harassed by the younger niece/nephew yet. But I do know its coming.

I said it earlier, Sony's reluctance in getting this will be felt once it goes live. This game is life to kids that age, and once its widely known that its the lessor version, they will flip on a dime.

All it will take is their fave YouTuber saying "it suxs" and they will be gone.

Mum and dads will be walking into the stores to buy Xbox's this Xmas because the "PS4 version is the suck", and I can assure you nothing is worse than the fury of a 5-10yo.

 

[The Artisan]

Absolutely. I've been keeping an eye on the reaction from Nintendo fans and there's a pervading sense of "Wow we're really getting this?! From Microsoft?!" Switch owners were largely already satisfied with the existing 4J port of Minecraft. Telling them that they will now have parity with PC, dedicated servers, infinite worlds, and all that sounds almost too good to be true.

I promise you no one gives a fuck about needing to link an XBL gamertag.

I see. Just curiously, where are you getting these Nintendo reactions from? Is it on a different forum or youtube comments etc.?

who is making excuses? I just understand it from a business perspective. just because you are a consumer doesn't mean you can't understand business decisions.

as consumers we don't have to accept the business decision i.e because of this business decision the consumers on PlayStation's consoles don't get to enjoy the Minecraft update that the other platforms will be receiving

 

[MasterForm]

I don't see Sony getting on board with that xbl requirement. Nor should they.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

What an ugly scenario, this is. This E3 is just flat out ugly.

 

[Cerium]

I see. Just curiously, where are you getting these Nintendo reactions from? Is it on a different forum or youtube comments etc.?

Reddit, GAF, comment sections, all over and it's pretty unanimous.

Here's the Reddit thread about the XBL news. They took it as a positive sign of Nintendo's newfound progressiveness.

Nintendo fans are pretty damn happy right now so there's not a whole lot you can do to upset them unless you're Capcom.

 

[The Artisan]

I don't see Sony getting on board with that xbl requirement. Nor should they.

If everybody else is on board why not Sony?

Reddit, GAF, comment sections, all over and it's pretty unanimous.

Here's the Reddit thread about the XBL news. They took it as a positive sign of Nintendo's newfound progressiveness.

Nintendo fans are pretty damn happy right now so there's not a whole lot you can do to upset them unless you're Capcom.

Thanks. Wow, yeah I haven't thought about this yet; if you own a Switch and like Minecraft, you've got a completely different (and positive) perspective from the announcement of this update

 

[phantasmic_glaive]

I haven't been harassed by the younger niece/nephew yet. But I do know its coming.

I said it earlier, Sony's reluctance in getting this will be felt once it goes live. This game is life to kids that age, and once its widely known that its the lessor version, they will flip on a dime.

All it will take is their fave YouTuber saying "it suxs" and they will be gone.

Mum and dads will be walking into the stores to buy Xbox's this Xmas because the "PS4 version is the suck", and I can assure you nothing is worse than the fury of a 5-10yo.

That shit is straight up fantasy..
My 10 year old daughter, 8 year old niece and 7 year old nephew couldn't give 2 shits about Minecraft anymore, or at least how you are making it seem..

They play games together and they have beaten: Dragon quest builders, Mario 3d world, ratchet n clank, Yoshi wooly, fab five Freddy on PC, and a bunch of stuff I never knew existed. Road blocks is up there too... (I don't even know what that is!)

My daughter actually guided me thru RE7, cause she watched her favorite YouTuber (kenshi?) play it to completion.

I have a hard time believing some one​ or kid are gonna beg for this or an Xbox at all, not that they're not worth owning, but for an updated version of Minecraft with any basic PC being able to run it.

If you're gonna pile on Sony for not wanting Xbox logins on their (for crying out loud) at least come.correct or with some real shit man. What you said is ridiculous.

And that's with all due respect to everyone's argument, cause if you want it that bad you should let em know. But c'mon.

 

[Cerium]

The Xbox Live thing is a total deflection anyway because Rocket League proves that this policy isn't about that.

If everybody else is on board why not Sony?
Thanks. Wow, yeah I haven't thought about this yet; if you own a Switch and like Minecraft, you've got a completely different (and positive) perspective from the announcement of this update

Yeah it's been a good E3 for us.

 

[Goodacre0081]

Has anyone started a push on social media to get Sony to reconsider yet?

that's just the thing. Sony has no forward facing people active on social media that we can even send messages to. Shawn Layden, Andrew House and Jim Ryan are MIA in this area.

besides Shu who else do we reach out to? the official Playstation twitter account? we might as well call their 1-800 number

 

[MasterForm]

If everybody else is on board why not Sony?

Seriously? You don't see the conflict of interests? You won't see Sony actively promoting a competitor's online service in any capacity. Just because everyone else is on board means nothing.

 

[binarymelon]

I don't see Sony getting on board with that xbl requirement. Nor should they.

They have no issue with uplay, origin or any other publishers account systems. They should have no issue with live either.

 

[Arcia]

Not sure if anyone in here has mentioned this yet, but Phil Spencer commented on this whole situation on the Giant Bomb interview that just streamed a few minutes ago.

I'm summarizing from memory here, but he basically said that it was a bit ridiculous for Sony to say that they were worried about childrens safety because of crossplay and a bit insulting to imply that Microsoft isn't properly moderating Minecraft or having childrens safety in mind.

He also said that the door is still open if Sony changes their mind, which I honestly hope Sony does.

 

[binarymelon]

that's just the thing. Sony has no forward facing people active on social media that we can even send messages to. Shawn Layden, Andrew House and Jim Ryan are MIA in this area.

besides Shu who else do we reach out to? the official Playstation twitter account? we might as well call their 1-800 number

Direct it at anyone related to PS, it's more about increasing awareness. The more people that see it the more flack Sony will get for it.

 

[Zaph]

Phil Spencer responded to this comment just now on Giant Bomb

 

[The Artisan]

Seriously? You don't see the conflict of interests? You won't see Sony actively promoting a competitor's online service in any capacity.

As a consumer, no, I don't care about mS's MAU, I just care about getting the best most up to date version of Minecraft on my Ps4 and the ability to play the game with my friend on Xbone.

Just because everyone else is on board means nothing.

It doesn't mean nothing. It means all platforms get the new update except playstation.

 

[Montresor]

Phil Spencer responded to this comment just now on Giant Bomb

Got 'em.

 

[qko]

The comment from that executive is just a really silly, bad justification they made up on the spot for some reason.
The real answer is just about money so I guess they think that would create a bigger backlash in the end.
Business-wise it's a good decision so I understand why they do it.
However it'd be awesome if everyone could play in the same servers regardless of the console.
I wonder if Sony is just waiting for Microsoft to give in and pay up some kind of fee to them in order to reduce the risk of a deal like that.
They know Microsoft and also Nintendo would benefit a lot from this and know that they need it to grow. Sony definitely has the upper hand here so they don't want to give that advantage away for free.
It may happen but it may not.
Also, there is a big chance that if Microsoft was in Sony's shoes as market leader, they would do the same exact thing, again because business-wise it is the way to go.
I don't blame them for that... but yea, it sucks.

I dunno, Microsoft was on top when they purchased Mojang, and Minecraft was still released and supported on PS3, Vita and PS4.

 

[Nightengale]

I've avoided bothering to discuss about for two reasons, but I'll chime it a bit.

1. Sony's excuse is clearly 99% bullshit. It's quite obviously business-related, but saying that only makes them look like greedy suits.

2. How about you all tweet and echo your disagreements of the matter to the associated executives. I'd recommend tweeting at their main social media platform or the exec directly, don't even bother with smaller execs since this is something WAY above their pay grade.

I tweeted at Shawn Layden my disagreements on the matter and why I urge him to bring it up to Andrew House to reconsider. Of all the executives currently on social media, he is closest to Andrew House who is clearly the one who's blocking crossplay from happening.

 

[The Artisan]

Phil Spencer responded to this comment just now on Giant Bomb

you should make a new thread for that

 

[binarymelon]

Phil Spencer responded to this comment just now on Giant Bomb

I usually think most of what comes out of his mouth as PR bullshit, but that at least sounded genuine.

 

[MasterForm]

How is using Nintendo strengthening the argument? They have a fledgling online system and new hardware that clearly benefits from the increased online population. They have little ground to stand on. Sony is not in that position. They have a strong network with millions of users. I just feel like they'll be a lot harder to convince.

 

[watershed]

Phil Spencer responded to this comment just now on Giant Bomb

He's right that Sony's "keep our gamers safe" argument is full of shit. But XBox Live in general does not do a good job regarding moderating in-game chat and harassment.

 

[SMOK3Y]

I usually think most of what comes out of his mouth as PR bullshit, but that at least sounded genuine.

Well tbh i was expecting him to talk the MAU/XBOX sign in thing not this...

 

[The Artisan]

I usually think most of what comes out of his mouth as PR bullshit, but that at least sounded genuine.

yeah I think he often says things that are disingenuous (rotr exclusivity justification, that recent thread about exclusive content) but here he is being genuine and I agree with him.

 

[binarymelon]

‪#4The✕Players‬

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Seriously? You don't see the conflict of interests? You won't see Sony actively promoting a competitor's online service in any capacity. Just because everyone else is on board means nothing.

A "competitor" is an interesting way to view a game developer supporting your platform.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Phil Spencer responded to this comment just now on Giant Bomb

rare footage of Phil not in PR mode

 

[phantasmic_glaive]

yeah I think he often says things that are disingenuous (rotr exclusivity justification, that recent thread about exclusive content) but here he is being genuine and I agree with him.

Omfg........ if you think that this is nothing other than a way to recoup/ own all the numbers for this game( maus and all that) then something is wrong.

They want ownership of these players under their umbrella and that is it! Genuine my ass.. if it was THAT important, how come they are not bending as well? Or trying to come to some sort of an agreement between the 2 services?

I busted a gut laughing and the little sentimental gestures he put on. I'm not a Phil hater and you won't find me trolling anyone or anything, but I seriously can't believe what I am reading.

But I'm done with it. I really hope you guys get what you want, and I'm being straight up.

 

[Synth]

Genuine my ass.. if it was THAT important, how come they are not bending as well? Or trying to come to some sort of an agreement between the 2 services?

Bending as well? I mean... what are you actually suggesting they should be doing here? Having run Minecraft the way they have been on PS4 up to this point is at least meeting them halfway.

If Rocket League can't get crossplay between Xbox and PlayStation going, with the developers literally saying they would be willing to implement whatever is required for it to happen, I'm not sure what sort of concessions you're expecting MS to make here, which would also sit well with every other platform owner the game needs to work with.