Another gripe I've read about part II is that the game preaches that things are bad, what you're doing is bad but the game only lets you do bad things and then the game preaches some more about doing bad things where the first one at least had some glimmers of hope sprinkled through the story.
Nearly every character you meet ends up dead or evil, Joel becomes a monster at the end and lies to Ellie... where was the hope? Yeah, there may have been short moments, but those were destroyed immediately (on purpose, though).
Nearly every character you meet ends up dead or evil, Joel becomes a monster at the end and lies to Ellie... where was the hope? Yeah, there may have been short moments, but those were destroyed immediately (on purpose, though).
Okay, you're right. Although I must say that that hope got lost for me during the final hour.
Who knows? Maybe we'll get such a moment in part 2 as well?
Another gripe I've read about part II is that the game preaches that things are bad, what you're doing is bad but the game only lets you do bad things and then the game preaches some more about doing bad things where the first one at least had some glimmers of hope sprinkled through the story.
It's not "my issue", it's one I read about. I can see it being an issue if a game lectures me that I made bad choices when the game only lets me make bad choices though.
Still have to play automata first before considering playing any other Nier.
It's not "my issue", it's one I read about. I can see it being an issue if a game lectures me that I made bad choices when the game only lets me make bad choices though.
Still have to play automata first before considering playing any other Nier.
It's not "my issue", it's one I read about. I can see it being an issue if a game lectures me that I made bad choices when the game only lets me make bad choices though.
Still have to play automata first before considering playing any other Nier.
The final part was a downer for me with the forced choices made but the game didn't lecture the player about it, part II seems to do so throughout the game according to Polygon.
The final part was a downer for me with the forced choices made but the game didn't lecture the player about it, part II seems to do so throughout the game according to Polygon.
The final part was a downer for me with the forced choices made but the game didn't lecture the player about it, part II seems to do so throughout the game according to Polygon.
To be fair: Polygon also criticised the violence because the BLM movement in our real world shows how nice people can be to each other, while the people in TLoU2 are so violent, bad and just want to kill each other.
Sadly Polygon forgot that TLoU2 is a video game and based in a fictional world where a deadly virus has thrown the world into chaos, so a comparison is not even slightly possible and the "We're better than this" headline just pointless.
Therefore I take stuff they say in their review with a grain of salt.
Yeah similar to how the first one kept selling because of word of mouth, then all the GotY awards it won, but only this time, the effect is amplified as it is a big franchise already.
Wouldnt shock me to see this get near 20m with the PS5 release. Cant wait for that btw.
Can you honestly see this game get a remake in this era when people waaay too oversensetive about anything and everything without completely change the story? I just cant see it happening.
I know the second isn't even out yet but would anybody else like to see the next one be a prequel? It would be interesting to see the world as it is falling apart rather than after the fact.
Can you honestly see this game get a remake in this era when people waaay too oversensetive about anything and everything without completely change the story? I just cant see it happening.
Yeah similar to how the first one kept selling because of word of mouth, then all the GotY awards it won, but only this time, the effect is amplified as it is a big franchise already.
Wouldnt shock me to see this get near 20m with the PS5 release. Cant wait for that btw.
I don't see the appeal of these review aggregate sites that people always seem to have a hard on for. I would respect a person's opinion more if they told me why THEY like something, and not because some website said it's good or bad.
It's always the same.
Metacritic agrees with someone and it's the best thing in the world and 100 percent correct, thank you metacritic!
Metacritic disagrees with someone and it's the worst thing in the world and 100 percent incorrect, fuck you metacritic!
Shills prop it up when it suits their agenda, Haters mock it when it doesnt, and the two thoughts can shift in a heartbeat and back again depending.
I know the second isn't even out yet but would anybody else like to see the next one be a prequel? It would be interesting to see the world as it is falling apart rather than after the fact.
Not me personally as I feel there's plenty of zombie games (not to mention zombie stories in other media) that cover that. Seeing a world 20 (and now 25) years into the apocalypse offers a few unique elements, like for example like how Ellie and others born after the fall of civilization do know what some of the "old times" things are but others they're clueless on. It offers them a different way in how they view the world as opposed to those who born before it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a prequel couldn't offer something interesting, but if I had to choose I'd prefer a straight up sequel, at least depending on how Part 2 ends.
For me, assuming Ellie survives this, I'd love to see Ellie team up with Bill and/or Ish. Bill was the most entertaining character of the first game (my favorite line: "That was plan A, B, all the way to fucking Z!"), and actually meeting Ish would be so hype. And in case anyone is misremembering or missed this note, no Ish is NOT confirmed to be dead, in the suburbs after you get out of the sewers there's one last Ish note that says he and a few kids managed to get out in time, so he could still be alive.
Nearly every character you meet ends up dead or evil, Joel becomes a monster at the end and lies to Ellie... where was the hope? Yeah, there may have been short moments, but those were destroyed immediately (on purpose, though).
Bill is still alive, and Ellie is at least safe for the moment living with Tommy and the others. I mean, for zombie fiction, I've seen endings that ended far more depressingly.
Also, I still think calling Joel a monster simplifies the climax a lot. Marlene and the Fireflies had zero reason to not wait for Ellie to wake up and explain the procedure to Ellie. Marlene tries to cover this by claiming she just "knows" this is what Ellie want, never mind the fact that Ellie flat out talked to Joel before this about what they'd do after this was done so that spits in the face of Marlene's assumption so at the end of the day Marlene and the Fireflies are guilty of attempted murder of Ellie. Not to mention Marlene's recordings show the deteriorating mindset of the Fireflies, and it makes me wonder if they weren't rushing the surgery and shouldn't have taken more time to figure out everything before proceeding, like it just seems fishy the doctors knew their only option in the time it took for the Fireflies to bring Joel and Ellie in and for Joel to regain consciousness. Not to mention that if you play the full recording of the tape found in the University (since in the cutscene Joel fast-forwards a bunch of it), the guy flat out says they've attempted vaccines before and failed, and while the recording at the Firefly base does have that doctor say he's never seen anything like Ellie's condition, it still makes me skeptical given that if you check your files carefully they threw that extra dialogue in there about past failed vaccines.
Plus, I just don't see how the vaccine would even be distributed. The Fireflies are clearly beyond talking things out with the military-controlled zones so they wouldn't be able to make it available to anyone inside. Most people outside the zones have generally become scavengers willing to murder anyone not in their group, if a vaccine was offered to them they'd probably just try to kill the Fireflies as soon as they could. A vaccine might have made a huge difference earlier in the apocalypse, but now it seems too little too late. To me, the face of relief when Marlene says they can make a vaccine doesn't show that they can save the world, that moment is more about her finding relief as the pressure of leading most of her followers to their deaths has eaten away at her mental health as evidenced by her notes and now she feels all her failures might mean something but she isn't taking into account the MANY obstacles in her path.
I'm not saying Joel is entirely innocent obviously as I doubt most of these factors were even present in his mind, but they should be taken into consideration. I really don't think Joel just walking away would have led to the world improving by that much, the full context of the situation just doesn't support that the way I look at it.
Also, I'm sorry, BUT FUCK THAT LITTLE BITCH FIREFLY who's next to Marlene when Joel wakes up. Like, yes David is obviously the most immoral character of the whole cast, but that specific Firefly was the character I hated the most. Joel just brought you Ellie, who you nearly shot when you found the two of them you fucking idiot, and just because Joel raised some protests you think that justifies you acting like a fucking douchebag? Christ, while Marlene didn't seem to be offering Joel a reward either, hell she didn't even seem to be letting him leave with the gear he already had (so really, Joel could just say Marlene didn't live up to her end of the bargain and thus can't claim that Ellie belongs to her or anything), but that dude was being way more asshole-ish about it. Forget everyone else, I don't want to hear anyone arguing otherwise that that fucker had it coming when Joel put two bullets in his dick and then one in the head. There's being ungrateful, and then there's THAT level of being an ungrateful asshole. Sorry, I know this last bit is quite the tangent and I got quite heated there, but fuck that guy.
I don't mean literally but no way should a game control like that and get a 97, i felt like I myself was knee deep in wuick and trying to move the stick
I loved RDR 2, it has input lag issues on console but so do most console games. It's not meant to be a snappy, arcadey game, there will be no MLG RDR 2 players or something. It's an immersive sim.
Why is nihilistic and deconstructionist media seen as so negative? Give me that over happy bs. Mechanically their games are great, honestly, not sure what problem people have with the mechanics of Naughty Dog games or what games they think function better at similar jobs? For instance I'd easily take how Uncharted 4 functions mechanically over the new Tomb Raider games. Narratively they also made TLOU... which was pretty nihilistic lol. Also plenty of great games have been deconstructionist themed like BioShock, Metal Gear Solid 2 and Spec Ops: The Line.
I loved RDR 2, it has input lag issues on console but so do most console games. It's not meant to be a snappy, arcadey game, there will be no MLG RDR 2 players or something. It's an immersive sim.
Why is nihilistic and deconstructionist media seen as so negative? Give me that over happy bs. Mechanically their games are great, honestly, not sure what problem people have with the mechanics of Naughty Dog games or what games they think function better at similar jobs? For instance I'd easily take how Uncharted 4 functions mechanically over the new Tomb Raider games. Narratively they also made TLOU... which was pretty nihilistic lol. Also plenty of great games have been deconstructionist themed like BioShock, Metal Gear Solid 2 and Spec Ops: The Line.
Because they rarely have anything to put in its place. They tear things down, think themselves some sort of genius, and walk away. Anybody with a brain can do that.
I loved MGS 2 and Spec Ops: The Line. MGS 2 tore things apart but ended with Raiden choosing to move forward and cut his own path, despite it all. Spec Ops: The Line had a few different endings, so that’s not really a good example. It’s not all “humans are shit” because you can make several choices in the game that alters Walker’s path and ending.
Nihilism isn’t a place anyone should dwell. Life is already a burden with the amount of suffering and malice in it, now you (the general you) want to rob people of any light there might be? What the fuck is that? It doesn’t make the writing profound or edgy, it’s just hopeless.
The Road is a heavy, oppressive, and dark book, but there’s light in it. When the boy learns it’s ok to trust some people and that it’s not all dark out there. From what I’ve seen and heard of Part II, it’s essentially “humans suck, they’re evil and do awful things to each other for stupid reasons.” Well, no shit big brain, but people are also amazing, brilliant creatures that have built civilization and escaped gravity to land on the moon. Fuck that perspective. If all you have to harp on about is how awful people are then you’re missing half of the picture.
The Road is a heavy, oppressive, and dark book, but there’s light in it. When the boy learns it’s ok to trust some people and that it’s not all dark out there. From what I’ve seen and heard of Part II, it’s essentially “humans suck, they’re evil and do awful things to each other for stupid reasons.” Well, no shit big brain, but people are also amazing, brilliant creatures that have built civilization and escaped gravity to land on the moon. Fuck that perspective. If all you have to harp on about is how awful people are then you’re missing half of the picture.
There are 100 other game with more “hopeful” story but not every game needs to be that. I personally love it, is the same reason I love games like Drakengard and NieR.
Because they rarely have anything to put in its place. They tear things down, think themselves some sort of genius, and walk away. Anybody with a brain can do that.
I loved MGS 2 and Spec Ops: The Line. MGS 2 tore things apart but ended with Raiden choosing to move forward and cut his own path, despite it all. Spec Ops: The Line had a few different endings, so that’s not really a good example. It’s not all “humans are shit” because you can make several choices in the game that alters Walker’s path and ending.
Nihilism isn’t a place anyone should dwell. Life is already a burden with the amount of suffering and malice in it, now you (the general you) want to rob people of any light there might be? What the fuck is that? It doesn’t make the writing profound or edgy, it’s just hopeless.
The Road is a heavy, oppressive, and dark book, but there’s light in it. When the boy learns it’s ok to trust some people and that it’s not all dark out there. From what I’ve seen and heard of Part II, it’s essentially “humans suck, they’re evil and do awful things to each other for stupid reasons.” Well, no shit big brain, but people are also amazing, brilliant creatures that have built civilization and escaped gravity to land on the moon. Fuck that perspective. If all you have to harp on about is how awful people are then you’re missing half of the picture.
Every Spec Ops ending was a different flavor of bleak, actually. Ah yes, because I think nihilism has a place in media I am attempting to rob people of any light there might be. The general you seems to believe it shouldn't exist in media at all, there's no "general you" trying to make all media nihilistic.
I have to wonder if you similarly think media depicting every as great is also missing half the picture?
Why don't you think TLOU part 1 was nihilistic? Explain.
This is weird. I never found it clunky. Collecting items is easy, unless you don't know you can hold triangle to pick everything up, and I never ever got constantly stopped for no reason. How the hell are you playing this? lol
We have till the game releases on the 19th and the general audience finally reacts to it to see if Druckmann and his fellow developers have a reason to be smug. But yeah, I agree. The amount of self defense on display from so called 'artists' here is pathetic. It's so reminiscent of Bioware getting pissy over the backlash to Mass Effect 3's shitty ending. 'Artistic integrity' my fucking ass.
If you're an artist with pride in your work, have at least some backbone to take it on the chin when people don't like it.
That famous discord must be spamming the Skillup Review as the only review that matters and touting that he didn't get paid by ND. This is so sad, because that would be lots of GOTY's ND would have had to pay for over the years and we all know there are other console Companies with deeper pockets....At least that's what they keep telling me,,,,,
Called it when all the anti-SJW's were triggered. NaughtyDog did right by us. The best part about all of this is that the most critical reviewers are actually some of the most progressive or "SJW" of the bunch. So happy it is reviewing well. Love the taste of tears.
We have till the game releases on the 19th and the general audience finally reacts to it to see if Druckmann and his fellow developers have a reason to be smug. But yeah, I agree. The amount of self defense on display from so called 'artists' here is pathetic. It's so reminiscent of Bioware getting pissy over the backlash to Mass Effect 3's shitty ending. 'Artistic integrity' my fucking ass.
If you're an artist with pride in your work, have at least some backbone to take it on the chin when people don't like it.
lmao Druckmann and co can be as smug as any developers in history with their output. They've created some of the best games in this medium and this one is apparently the best of the lot.
Every Spec Ops ending was a different flavor of bleak, actually. Ah yes, because I think nihilism has a place in media I am attempting to rob people of any light there might be. The general you seems to believe it shouldn't exist in media at all, there's no "general you" trying to make all media nihilistic.
I have to wonder if you similarly think media depicting every as great is also missing half the picture?
Why don't you think TLOU part 1 was nihilistic? Explain.
There’s one where Walker denies reality and dies, one where he acknowledges it and atones for what he’s done by shooting himself, one where he waits for a squad to pick him up and heads home mentally scarred, and one where he kills that squad. That’s the only terrible one. I think I recalled them all, it’s been a long time since I’ve played it.
What’s important is that the game had meaning. It would be nihilistic if none of what he did was acknowledged at all. If it was just like “this is what happened”. That game intentionally gets you to consider it’s subject matter and take something from it.
You missed the reason I said “general you”, I was not referring to you (Explosive Zombie) specifically, ever in what I wrote. You, as in, the people out there; nihilistic writers.
No, I don’t care that it exists, I just don’t see it serving much of a purpose. I love the darker subject matter, I prefer it, but it’s gotta have something to it other than “this is what happened and none of it mattered” I leave empty-handed otherwise. I’ve only read Camus, but it’s just not for me.
The Last of Us Part I
showed that there’s was reason to live despite all of the terrible things that happened. Joel starts of not giving a shit about anyone or anything aside from Tess and surviving. The game shows that Joel could go on an find someone to love and care for again (Ellie). The moments with the giraffes, Ellie saving Joel, a relationship built from all the hardships they’d been through. They had each other. The game says ”It can’t all be for nothin’”, and it wasn’t.
I wrote something about Part II here, but I’m worried about getting banned for even the mildest of talk about it. Since I don’t know where the line is, I just deleted it. Sorry if this is not that coherent, I’m very sleepy.
There’s one where Walker denies reality and dies, one where he acknowledges it and atones for what he’s done by shooting himself, one where he waits for a squad to pick him up and heads home mentally scarred, and one where he kills that squad. That’s the only terrible one. I think I recalled them all, it’s been a long time since I’ve played it.
What’s important is that the game had meaning. It would be nihilistic if none of what he did was acknowledged at all. If it was just like “this is what happened”. That game intentionally gets you to consider it’s subject matter and take something from it.
You missed the reason I said “general you”, I was not referring to you (Explosive Zombie) specifically, ever in what I wrote. You, as in, the people out there; nihilistic writers.
No, I don’t care that it exists, I just don’t see it serving much of a purpose. I love the darker subject matter, I prefer it, but it’s gotta have something to it other than “this is what happened and none of it mattered” I leave empty-handed otherwise. I’ve only read Camus, but it’s just not for me.
The Last of Us Part I
showed that there’s was reason to live despite all of the terrible things that happened. Joel starts of not giving a shit about anyone or anything aside from Tess and surviving. The game shows that Joel could go on an find someone to love and care for again (Ellie). The moments with the giraffes, Ellie saving Joel, a relationship built from all the hardships they’d been through. They had each other. The game says ”It can’t all be for nothin’”, and it wasn’t.
I wrote something about Part II here, but I’m worried about getting banned for even the mildest of talk about it. Since I don’t know where the line is, I just deleted it. Sorry if this is not that coherent, I’m very sleepy.
it's weird seeing you argue a game wasn't nihilistic that had loading screens suggesting the correct answer was to NOT KEEP PLAYING IT, lol
The game did have meaning, not sure why you're assuming TLOU II won't. I didn't miss the point that you actually think people are trying to stop entertainment from NOT being nihilistic, a ridiculous assertion.
I'm still not seeing how you can say TLOU II is nihilist based on what little we currently know of it. Especially while you make excuses for the first game
you see the first as Joel learning to care again, but in reality the first is about Joel's weakness, he's so unable to to handle another heartbreak he'd forsake the entire human race, an act even Ellie doesn't agree with, though she's unsure it's what occurred the look on her face at the end suggests she doesn't believe Joel. Joel did everything he could to save Ellie, but in the end it's suggested he may have lost her all the same.
it's weird seeing you argue a game wasn't nihilistic that had loading screens suggesting the correct answer was to NOT KEEP PLAYING IT, lol
The game did have meaning, not sure why you're assuming TLOU II won't. I didn't miss the point that you actually think people are trying to stop entertainment from NOT being nihilistic, a ridiculous assertion.
I'm still not seeing how you can say TLOU II is nihilist based on what little we currently know of it. Especially while you make excuses for the first game
you see the first as Joel learning to care again, but in reality the first is about Joel's weakness, he's so unable to to handle another heartbreak he'd forsake the entire human race, an act even Ellie doesn't agree with, though she's unsure it's what occurred the look on her face at the end suggests she doesn't believe Joel. Joel did everything he could to save Ellie, but in the end it's suggested he may have lost her all the same.
I’m playing the first right now. And it is definitely a fairly simple story about a man who lost everything, became a shell of himself to survive and then relearned to love with Ellie. The fact that she’s there with you the whole time sort of showing you (as an audience of jaded gamers as well) her wonder at things we often take for granted. I find it actually pretty heartwarming rather than bleak. And definitely identified with Joel in his decision at the end - it wasn’t worth the price - no matter how Ellie may think on that at 14. I hope the second one has some of that in it because maybe it’s cheesy but replaying it - it is kinda weirdly uplifting.
Only 392 subscribers, but can't believe he has even got those.
What a pathetic "review".
Edit: Ignore what I just said. The channel also has a review that is the complete opposite. So one calling it a masterpiece and one calling it pure garbage. Seems like the videos exist as a commentary on peoples preconceived bias, you'll either think it's great or not and the videos exist to confirm that bias. Funny stuff.
This is an example of what I'm worried about... so the gameplay is similar to the precessor (it sucked) but damn bast game ever... wtf, this is a game not a book or a movie.
Well that's just it. If someone thought the gameplay and general combat was good in the first title, then I have no trust in their comments regarding the new one. It was really quite a mediocre game, it just had a lot of well executed cinematic queues. WHich does not really equate to a good game.
Try Lyrical and Critical Essays sometimes. It was probably my favorite book, back in my 20s, when I read him -- it's filled with beauty and profundity. Camus gets a bad, though understandable, rap as a nihilist. He said it himself: "I'm fated to be known for a position I've long since moved beyond." His reputation was made by The Stranger (nihilistic), but he moved well beyond that later.
Back in that phase of my life, I would occasionally be drawn to Nietzsche, because of how powerful his ideas and presentation were, but I always gravitated back to Camus. He's just more humane and feeling, more in touch with beauty and nature, love, brotherhood, art, honesty, etc. He was one of my early heroes.
I know that's off the thread topic, but I just felt like adding it.
Carry on with TLoU 2 review stuff... Personally, I'm interested in seeing if gamers like it as much as the critics.
