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The Leftovers |OT| Left Behind With Damon Lindelof - Sundays 10/9c

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NeoGiff

Member
I usually lurk around TV show threads, but goddammit if this show isn't forcing me out of my cave. I've never felt the need to express myself so much about a show...it's just perplexing.

This was definitely the best episode so far, but it still doesn't touch the quality of other shows. I'd prefer if more episodes were character-focused like this, although I doubt that will happen much. We finally have a reason to root for a character, which is more than can be said for any of the Garveys (yet), who are, I guess, the leads?

The last ten minutes were admittedly good, and there were some sprinklings of intriguing stuff before that. But once again, Lindelof is murderously smashing his audience over the head with pretentious symbolism. In the premiere it was the deer, last week it was the bagels, and now it's the bloody pigeons. Why? Is he capable of writing something without using cheap hooks that exist solely for the sake of mystery? Clearly he is, judging from some of the great episodes of Lost, but unfortunately he has picked up Jackson fever - only in this case, it's overuse of flaccid symbolism rather than CGI.

Again with the same piano motif. It was beautiful and poignant the first five times it was used (and that's being generous), but when it continuously pops up in every "important" moment, it becomes jarring and annoying, comical even.

Also, there's one thing I don't get in relation to Matt and the Guilty Remnant. They're both on opposing sides of an argument; their goal to remind the common folk of the new "reality" as they see it. But...the common folk don't really seem to oppose the views of Matt and the GR, it's more that they don't care about them. Matt spends his time proving to others that both saints and sinners disappeared, but no one is actively disputing that or arguing with him, so he just comes off as another asshole in a show full of assholes. The same goes for the GR, although in the opposite sense. I have far less sympathy for the GR, however. Were we actually expected to feel sorry for them in the pilot when the crowd attacked them? Perhaps all of this will be cleared up in the coming weeks? Hopefully, because the trailers make the upcoming episodes look amazing.

I am interested in where the show is going, however, due to the seeds of conflict sown this week. Hopefully they can be delivered upon.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Also, there's one thing I don't get in relation to Matt and the Guilty Remnant. They're both on opposing sides of an argument; their goal to remind the common folk of the new "reality" as they see it. But...the common folk don't really seem to oppose the views of Matt and the GR, it's more that they don't care about them. Matt spends his time proving to others that both saints and sinners disappeared, but no one is actively disputing that or arguing with him, so he just comes off as another asshole in a show full of assholes. The same goes for the GR, although in the opposite sense. I have far less sympathy for the GR, however. Were we actually expected to feel sorry for them in the pilot when the crowd attacked them? Perhaps all of this will be cleared up in the coming weeks? Hopefully, because the trailers make the upcoming episodes look amazing.


I view the priest as being disputed because people are still taking issue with the conflicting idea that the people that disappeared were assholes. Some people accept this and others don't. It seems to go against a national propaganda campaign.

The GR have struck me as a group that seemingly knows something the show is keeping hidden behind the scenes until they reveal it. Just like that black cultist leader.

Or they could all just be boring brainwashed assholes.


I would be into the show more if i wasn't spoiled by past shows following similar formulas. These shows thrive off of constant questions and intrigue and rarely ever deliver in the end as the agenda is viewers. I think Lost worked far better because of two simple reasons. I liked the characters more and each episode delivered a more potent emotional punch that felt rewarding.

EP 3 of this series was the closest they seemed to come of trying to mimic that success, so i am all for them succeeding. I also havent watched previews people seem excited about.
 

Erigu

Member
I view the priest as being disputed because people are still taking issue with the conflicting idea that the people that disappeared were assholes. Some people accept this and others don't. It seems to go against a national propaganda campaign.
The idea is that pretty much everybody knows of some people who disappeared, right? The media could call them "heroes" all day, that wouldn't somehow brainwash all those who know damn well of some assholes who went away on that day.
Plus, of course, infants went missing, too. Really, if any kind of obvious pattern such as "only good/bad people have disappeared" had been discovered, people would know, by now.
 

Sober

Member
If you actually didn't notice, Matt has a real chip on his shoulder about the people that were Departed away. It started with the judge (and still continues to the present) and I guess it just took off from there and he made it his own thing. With the judge it was personal but it just became a bit of some crusade of his.
 

Erigu

Member
To the point where he actually could have saved his church right away, but nope: that crusade of his is more important. For some reason the writers apparently didn't feel like elaborating upon.
 

Sober

Member
To the point where he actually could have saved his church right away, but nope: that crusade of his is more important. For some reason the writers apparently didn't feel like elaborating upon.
What did they not elaborate on? I didn't get any impression that he did it for no reason other than because reasons untold.
 

Vossler

Member
Show was honestly kinda boring barring the Chief, but after watching that Ecclestone episode going to continue watching. Was really well done. Needs to focus on the characters like this more often.
 

Saty

Member
They were trying too hard to surface that question of divine guidance vs random shit happening that is so typical for characters that do religious work. Too much back and forth, it started to be a bit comic.

Matt suddenly remembers Garvey Sr. has hidden substantial amount of money in the backyard (how could you forget about that?); digs it up, gambles according the 'signs' and wins big. But then he is robbed (random reality rearing its face) but Matt goes back to attack him and takes the money and later drives to the bank. But he stops to help the person and gets a a stone in the face that sends to the hospital. But after he returns to the car, the money is all there in full sum. But then it's revealed that his hospital stay was 3 days.

Still undecided about the show. So far however i don't why the show needs that Departure event as the framework. The Leftovers could have been pretty much the same without that premise. Lorie left Kevin because he cheated on her- she could have gone anywhere, there's yet to be a significance of why she joined the GR. Kevin is fighting against a potential inherited mental disease. Matt's wife was paralyzed in an accident and so on.
 

Meier

Member
Very good episode. I said to my wife, "Oh no, that dude is going to rob him" once he sat down in the car and didn't drive away immediately. It was awesome to see him fight back but so painful to see him fail in getting there on time. I hate it when horrible things happen to good people. :(

I expected it would be the GR who took over the church.
 
Very good episode. I said to my wife, "Oh no, that dude is going to rob him" once he sat down in the car and didn't drive away immediately. It was awesome to see him fight back but so painful to see him fail in getting there on time. I hate it when horrible things happen to good people. :(

I expected it would be the GR who took over the church.

I think he's a piece of shit, personally, but his intentions are noble enough.
 
Which is why I'm not sure what people are seeing in the latest episode...

Why is that guy doing the things he does? He has to keep telling (reminding, really) people that some of those who disappeared had skeletons in their closet because... his suffering would be meaningless otherwise? Whah?
Does that make more sense than all those kids burning themselves or dropping out of college because "what's the point anymore?" Or those assholes in white trolling everybody because "don't waste your breath"?

Am I supposed to understand that this is the first time Eccleston's character has to consider the idea that sometimes shit just happens? That you don't necessarily "deserve" what happens to you?
That, before, he had faith it all made sense (somehow, I don't pretend to understand how believers make sense out of all the tragedies around them), but now that the world has experienced what could certainly be called an actual supernatural event, a phenomenon clearly caused by something intelligent, interested in humans and not too concerned about the laws of physics as we know them, now, he's losing that faith? "Millions of innocents dying or suffering in natural disasters or freak accidents prior to that? Well, God probably had His reasons. But that sudden disappearance thing? Man, now, that's fucked up. Nothing makes sense anymore!"

Would things have been different for him had his car crash been caused by... well, a slippery road? Is there any point in telling that story here?
Is there any way for me to empathize with that character's behavior?
Is there any reason for me to be interested in that protracted "will he or won't he get/keep that money?" sequence which merely seems to be the writer fucking with him just for shits and giggles?
So many questions!

you've pretty much described Lost.
 

Quidam

Member
Fuck it, still loving this show. I realise it wouldn't work long term, but if they could craft a few episodes a season that were just focused on one character - with others cameoing briefly - it would be a really fascinating way of telling the story.
 

mcfrank

Member
Just got caught up with the show last night and I like it, but I am curious if the night scenes look terrible to anyone else? They are super grainy with lines running through them for me. I just got a new TV and Gravity looked fine on it, but this show looks terrible. HBO Go issue or just poor exposure from the cinematographer ?
 
Damn, 3rd episode did right by focusing on a single character and even making the mystery more intriguing than I expected.

I say "damn" because, dammit those doves and this preacher are going to be the smoke monster and Ben all over again, right? Suddenly Ben could control the smoke, the smoke wouldn't cross over magic ash sprinkled on the ground, and so on. Dangling threads. That's gonna happen again, isn't it? The whole thing is never gonna come together is it? Going by book reviews and the show's creators' interviews, there isn't an explanation:(

Dang. Because I wasn't expecting an episode this "LOST"-like, with all the symbols, dreamy sci-fi fantasy teases and emotion. The first 2 episodes were pretty snore worthy. But now, the dog killer and the preacher's arc are the most intriguing mysteries. But knowing it most likely will not be explained, it's frustrating because it lacks the level and number of interesting characters that LOST did to make up for the missing answers.

So for now I'm in it for the doves and the crazy dogs.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
I say "damn" because, dammit those doves and this preacher are going to be the smoke monster and Ben all over again, right? Suddenly Ben could control the smoke, the smoke wouldn't cross over magic ash sprinkled on the ground, and so on. Dangling threads. That's gonna happen again, isn't it? The whole thing is never gonna come together is it? Going by book reviews and the show's creators' interviews, there isn't an explanation:(

Dang. Because I wasn't expecting an episode this "LOST"-like, with all the symbols, dreamy sci-fi fantasy teases and emotion. The first 2 episodes were pretty snore worthy. But now, the dog killer and the preacher's arc are the most intriguing mysteries. But knowing it most likely will not be explained, it's frustrating because it lacks the level and number of interesting characters that LOST did to make up for the missing answers.

So for now I'm in it for the doves and the crazy dogs.

The "event" isn't going to be explained, but perhaps some of the smaller mysteries (like the dog killer) will be?
 

Qvoth

Member
was just about to ask if i should bother following it after that episode 1
guess i'll stick until 3 and decide then
 

nomis

Member
Except Walkabout made sense.

I meant that it had the tone and texture of Walkabout, and it made for an enjoyable watch. Walkabout is also in my top five TV episodes of all time, so I wasn't giving them equal footing.

This episode didn't make sense, huh? I won't ask you to elaborate, perhaps you have already.
 

Erigu

Member
This episode didn't make sense, huh? I won't ask you to elaborate, perhaps you have already.
Yep (others have too). Locke's behavior made sense, at least. Here, we're given an odd "I can't give up my crusade because something something suffering something something meaning" and that's apparently supposed to be convincing, but errrr...

And the last part does give off a Twilight Zone vibe, except there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to any of it. Just fate (= the writers) fucking with the character in an absurdly protracted sequence.
Oh, he debases himself!
But fate helps him with the roulette. Hm... Okay?
Ah, but it backfires!
But he fights back (and... kills the guy? maybe? could also be one of those times when TV writers seriously underestimate the effects of such physical violence), and... good for him, apparently?
But he then tries to help one of those assholes in white, and that's what does him in. Oh, and !!!irony!!!: the assholes in white were the ones buying the church in the first place (I'm surprised the show didn't show them burning bibles, while it was at it). Hm.
Is there also some "and it turns out he would have gotten the money if only he hadn't debased himself in the first place" irony? Nope, nothing? Only the bit well before that with his sister and "no, my crusade matters more, also your husband cheated on you"? Okay.
So, er... Was there a point somewhere in there? I feel like we've learned more about what's on the mind of the demiurge of that universe (= still the writers) than about the character, but I guess that's still something...
 

nomis

Member
Yep (others have too). Locke's behavior made sense, at least. Here, we're given an odd "I can't give up my crusade because something something suffering something something meaning" and that's apparently supposed to be convincing, but errrr...

And the last part does give off a Twilight Zone vibe, except there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to any of it. Just fate (= the writers) fucking with the character in an absurdly protracted sequence.
Oh, he debases himself!
But fate helps him with the roulette. Hm... Okay?
Ah, but it backfires!
But he fights back (and... kills the guy? maybe? could also be one of those times when TV writers seriously underestimate the effects of such physical violence), and... good for him, apparently?
But he then tries to help one of those assholes in white, and that's what does him in. Oh, and !!!irony!!!: the assholes in white were the ones buying the church in the first place (I'm surprised the show didn't show them burning bibles, while it was at it). Hm.
Is there also some "and it turns out he would have gotten the money if only he hadn't debased himself in the first place" irony? Nope, nothing? Only the bit well before that with his sister and "no, my crusade matters more, also your husband cheated on you"? Okay.
So, er... Was there a point somewhere in there? I feel like we've learned more about what's on the mind of the demiurge of that universe (= still the writers) than about the character, but I guess that's still something...

I think he definitely killed that guy. So no, NOT "good for him", I'd say. It was supposed to be unsettling that this character we're delving into went that far to save his church and ended up getting a rush from it. At least that's how I read it.
 

Erigu

Member
I think he definitely killed that guy. So no, NOT "good for him", I'd say. It was supposed to be unsettling that this character we're delving into went that far to save his church and ended up getting a rush from it. At least that's how I read it.
Well, I hope it was supposed to be unsettling! I'm just not sure the writers and I agree as to how unsettling exactly.
What I meant by "good for him" was that it allowed him to get the money back and wasn't mentioned again. That's not what did him in (which makes it look like that was "the good call"), and it doesn't look like the experience burdens the character (no "I'm no longer worthy" or anything: his drive to keep his church seems unchanged).
It seems to be written more as a red herring ("he'll actually get punished for a good deed! twist!") than as a life-altering event. I'm reminded of some Lost "good guys" doing horrible things that may be portrayed as shocking or unsettling at the time but are then swept under the rug forever.
 

Frog-fu

Banned
I wonder if the same people moaning about the show in this thread have the same impossible standards for everything else they watch.

Oh, you don't understand certain things three episodes in? Must be terrible fucking writing alright. I mean, what show will tout a huge mystery and not immediately explain it? It's like they don't even want us to keep watching!

We already got fair warning the mass disappearance wouldn't be explained so there's no excuse for people sticking around if that's all they care about and moan with every passing episode that it hasn't been explained yet. Why are GR doing what they're doing? Why is the Reverend doing what he's doing? Hell, I don't know, it's only been 3 episodes. I'm still trying to remember the names of the characters.

If people could give LOST the benefit of the doubt as to why there were fucking polar bears on an tropical island, why can we just, you know, wait and see what happens, instead of complain every single step of the way? Opinions are fine and all, and I'm cool with people not liking what I like and vice-versa, but it's a little ridiculous we're demanding to know all the answers when we've barely getting started.
 

Erigu

Member
I wonder if the same people moaning about the show in this thread have the same impossible standards for everything else they watch.
Hardly "impossible". I expect decent storytelling, and I get just that from quite a few works of fiction. Not this one though.

Oh, you don't understand certain things three episodes in? Must be terrible fucking writing alright. I mean, what show will tout a huge mystery and not immediately explain it? It's like they don't even want us to keep watching!
The main character's motivations in an episode entirely focused on that character? Some kind of point to the last third of the episode? These things "kinda" matter, yes.
Again, people have mentioned Walkabout and the Twilight Zone, other examples of episodes that you'd expect to stand on their own, but those did in fact stand on their own.

it's a little ridiculous we're demanding to know all the answers
I didn't say anything about wanting to know all the answers right away.
 
I wonder if the same people moaning about the show in this thread have the same impossible standards for everything else they watch.

Oh, you don't understand certain things three episodes in? Must be terrible fucking writing alright. I mean, what show will tout a huge mystery and not immediately explain it? It's like they don't even want us to keep watching!

We already got fair warning the mass disappearance wouldn't be explained so there's no excuse for people sticking around if that's all they care about and moan with every passing episode that it hasn't been explained yet. Why are GR doing what they're doing? Why is the Reverend doing what he's doing? Hell, I don't know, it's only been 3 episodes. I'm still trying to remember the names of the characters.

If people could give LOST the benefit of the doubt as to why there were fucking polar bears on an tropical island, why can we just, you know, wait and see what happens, instead of complain every single step of the way? Opinions are fine and all, and I'm cool with people not liking what I like and vice-versa, but it's a little ridiculous we're demanding to know all the answers when we've barely getting started.
Intention and execution are different things. This show isn't executing mystery in a way that respects the social contract they have with their viewers.

People liked this episode more because we were given a chance to understand a character's motivations. There are still mysteries around it, but there are relatable details of this person we can latch on to now. We don't have that with any other character on this show.
 

nomis

Member
Well, I hope it was supposed to be unsettling! I'm just not sure the writers and I agree as to how unsettling exactly.
What I meant by "good for him" was that it allowed him to get the money back and wasn't mentioned again. That's not what did him in (which makes it look like that was "the good call"), and it doesn't look like the experience burdens the character (no "I'm no longer worthy" or anything: his drive to keep his church seems unchanged).
It seems to be written more as a red herring ("he'll actually get punished for a good deed! twist!") than as a life-altering event. I'm reminded of some Lost "good guys" doing horrible things that may be portrayed as shocking or unsettling at the time but are then swept under the rug forever.

I will be fucking flabbergasted if what he did to the dude in the casino parking lot doesn't haunt him. I don't mean like a police investigation necessarily, I mean haunt him personally. Maybe both. The way they filmed his face during the encounter, along with the sound effects was too brutal, must be a pivotal point for the character and not just "Oh he kicked the banger's ass to get his money back. Serves him right!". The impression I got was that he turned the guys face to mush.

Sure, like you imply the jury's always out when it comes to Lindelof, but I have a strong feeling that it's not going to get swept away.
 

Erigu

Member
I will be fucking flabbergasted if what he did to the dude in the casino parking lot doesn't haunt him. I don't mean like a police investigation necessarily, I mean haunt him personally. Maybe both. The way they filmed his face during the encounter, along with the sound effects was too brutal, must be a pivotal point for the character and not just "Oh he kicked the banger's ass to get his money back. Serves him right!". The impression I got was that he turned the guys face to mush.

Sure, like you imply the jury's always out when it comes to Lindelof, but I have a strong feeling that it's not going to get swept away.
That would be nice. I seem to remember they went for an... "interesting" musical choice during the scene that directly followed though...
 

TheOddOne

Member
New episode today:
Season 1: episode 4 "B.J. and the A.C."

A holiday display goes wanting, sending Kevin scurrying to find out who is responsible. Tom and Christine run into trouble at a hospital and on the road. Kevin retrieves a surprise detainee from a neighboring police station, and receives unexpected visitors at home. The Guilty Remnant put its stamp on the holiday season.
 

FTF

Member
I forgot this was even on right now…and I have last week's episode still to watch on my dvr…I guess I may be done with this show :/
 

royalan

Member
...wait, just to make sure, we're supposed to be sympathizing with the GR, right?

Because that's what I got from the cheesy violin in the background of that scene, but not the scene itself.
 

RELIGHT

Banned
This show...lis fucking awful. Last episode was the peak. So many unlikable characters and uninteresting plotlines. Holy shit. I want to enjoy it but it's making it damn hard.
 
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