dead souls
Member
Forget Veep, Silicon Valley, or even the wonderful John Oliver, a baby getting raptured in utero is the funniest thing HBO has aired all year.
This show is ridiculous.
This show is ridiculous.
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The Leftovers |OT| Left Behind With Damon Lindelof - Sundays 10/9c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
its not cheap storytelling, its details. Its one thing to say a character is unhappy, but this eps illustrated well where that unhappiness came from, and effectively by showing us a piece of their lives that we have not seen the whole season. The fact that you knew
"pointless" episodes. Im sorry im just not seeing where you coming from at all. The reverend's episode was pointless? the stoning was pointless? Nora's eps? you think it was pointless to illustrate Rev. Matts deal, Nora's?...
I dunno what people where expecting to know already by time in the season. Its not a show about scientist and wizards trying to figure out why people disappeared, im not expecting that "answer" soon at all. The storytelling and characters are interesting enough so far to keep me til we get "the answer".
Messofanego
Banned
There are new episodes of Silicon Valley? Last ep I remember was the contest thing.
EDIT: Oh good, I'm all caught up. Just checking.
I'm going to regret this but, why?
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Wow. That was great. The best of time begets the worst of time for the people of Mapletown. Well not entirely the best for some of the families which are experiencing all too common strife. But the message came across to cherish what you've got, because when "it's" gone, how the hell are you going to deal with the situation?
dead souls
Member
I just can't take it seriously. It's absurd.
If you don't mind, what's absurd about it? I thought it made a lot of sense. Laurie makes more sense as a character now. A traumatic event like that could fuck up anyone.
Vert boil
Member
;(( What a depressing episode.
Garvey: Wang, a-dang, Lubing up his hands
Jill: Laughing in the car, Dancing, Shaking her head at the brother, There's no need to be dramatic
Lucy: Laughing whilst drinking champers, Dancing
Nora: High five
No teenage Aimee.
Garvey: Wang, a-dang, Lubing up his hands
Jill: Laughing in the car, Dancing, Shaking her head at the brother, There's no need to be dramatic
Lucy: Laughing whilst drinking champers, Dancing
Nora: High five
CharminUltra
Member
I'm starting to think I'm the only one who laughed out loud when the "rapture" happened. Specifically when Kevin kept searching for the grown-ass woman under the sheets in disbelief. I kept imagining him thinking "what in the fuck... one second warm apple pie, then the next just cold nothingness..." and then just as I was beginning to recover, Laurie's face when she realized the baby was gone just killed me all over again.
So, naturally, she ends up joining a support group for pregnant women who lost their unborn child because of that event.
Wait, no: she joins that one cult whose only known feature / activity is that its members harass the shit out of everybody else. Of course!
See, the feelings of loss and grief caused by that rapture thing are so very unique, so damn special, so completely unlike other feelings of loss/grief, that you can use them to justify any kind of illogical behavior for your characters! That thing happened, so, naturally, they now do all kinds of crazy shit. It's like with the dogs! That's not complete bullshit at all (the people who made that video were obviously mauled to death minutes later) and it all makes for extremely compelling drama.
He knows he couldn't handle it.
I guess he felt threatened because she could see he was feeling trapped by a family that didn't let him be a manly cowboy. "I'm a wild, majestic deer, damnit!"
(and because it's better if there's some drama right before the rapture, of course)
BertramCooper
Banned
Because Kevin's a fuckhead - and apparently always has been.
Based on her reaction to Patti's claim that she was aware of something terrible impending, along with the fact she was pregnant, and how he's obviously going to bizarre lengths to hide his smoking, it's not at all a big leap to make that she's been different, and his frustration has been growing, and as he himself confesses, he's not a good guy anyway.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Found the preview for episode 10
Unofficial, but there it is. Confirms at least one horrible thing that's gonna happen in the next episode.
**warning, this idiot spoils the series finale of True Blood right as the preview ends, as a preview for his other channels/videos**
Unofficial, but there it is. Confirms at least one horrible thing that's gonna happen in the next episode.
**warning, this idiot spoils the series finale of True Blood right as the preview ends, as a preview for his other channels/videos**
Wasn't that just supposed to refer to the fact she knew her family was about to fall apart? Hence why she hadn't even told her husband about her pregnancy?
I mean, Patti was talking about the rapture (because lots of people apparently could feel it coming, but somehow, those left behind never heard (or made a big deal out?) of those premonitions, not even three years later), but I didn't get the impression we were to infer that's what it was about for the wife as well...
By 'no one made a big deal about it', you mean other than the fact that Patti became the leader of one faction of the large cult that resulted from the event?
We only know one of the cult leaders, and she predicted it, for all we know every faction is headed by people who claimed it was going to happen.
As for Laurie, Patti said 'you can feel it too', which to me implies feeling the same dread, not an alternative family one, but that's subjective I guess. Regardless of if Laurie felt the event coming or not, her exposure to Patti's exclamations about it surely would have colored her interpretation.
People are susceptible to the most extreme changes if they're vulnerable enough. Losing a child is a traumatic event, it changed Laurie. She was no different than all the other people that gave up on their lives, but at least we know what started her change. Rationality has nothing to do with it.
Instead of becoming a person of great interest as far as the government is concerned, yes...
Well, yeah, that's the thing: others could feel it coming, apparently (see also that car that passed by the main character in this week's episode). So you'd think all those people who've been struggling to try and make sense of that baffling event for three years would have heard of those premonitions at some point and investigated that particular lead like hell. And yet...
It's a bit like the thing with the dogs: if the rapture did make them violent (as silly as it may be), you'd expect that to be a widely known fact, not an urban legend that the chief of police himself didn't verify until three years later.
... and decided to spend those lives harassing others.
Awesome!
But that's all just a baseless presumption. You don't think people heard about or questioned the people who said they felt it coming, okay, but you don't know that at all. It seems absurd to be frustrated by the logical failings of your own unjustified assertion.
There are people who believe the rapture is going to happen in the real world, if it happened, do you think those people would be questioned as if they could provide any meaningful insight? There are people who believe they've been abducted by aliens, do you think if aliens landed on Earth and introduced themselves, the governments of the world would then pursue these claims as actual criminal cases? Some percentage of the population is just crazy, that's true now, and it was true in the hypothetical Leftovers world before the event.
The show has made no attempt to surface the investigation into the event in any detail whatsoever. The pilot had a little TV thing about an inquiry that made it clear that despite an exhaustive investigation, they came up with nothing, but no part of that investigation has been detailed, and it almost certainly won't be.
Just because Patti believed she felt it coming, doesn't mean she did, and that it was anything 'spiritual' that some people may feel. She could have just been crazy. One of the central themes in the show so far has been to question the default stance that these kinds of people are crazy. If a man hears voices in our world, everyone is very confident he has a mental disorder, which is a logical conclusion.
In the post-event world, the public are aware that their understanding of the world was fundamentally flawed, because however it did happen, it couldn't have happened within contemporary science. Once you're forced to disregard the foundations of your understanding of the world, the fringe people who might appear crazy might not be after-all. The same way that if we found out about aliens visiting Earth, the people who we all mock for believing in them could, in some way, be redeemed.
There's a very specific reason Jill and Tommy were taking part in a big science activity the moment it happened, science was shattered with the ring.
The One and Done
Member
In a world where 2% of the population vanishes and this you cant believe.
We've seen government people be all "hey, whatevs, raid them, sure, why not" about Wayne's group, for example. Certainly doesn't look like they've heard anything about those new religions possibly being a lead.
From what we know, scientists are completely clueless about what happened, so, yes, absolutely?
Not the same thing: in that particular example, the governments of the world would have freaking aliens to investigate. I think they'd be plenty busy with that.
It certainly doesn't have to be the focus of the show. But putting some thought in your worldbuilding can't hurt, even if you keep those details firmly in the background. As it is, the world of the Leftovers simply isn't believable to me (not that I'd say the character drama fares better, as explained above).
Not following you, there... Now you're saying this, but right above, you seemed to find the idea of questioning those people ridiculous?
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
I would happily watch Justin jog for an hour every week. This needs to happen.
I know a little about Wayne's story which hasn't been revealed yet, so I can't really comment on that, other than to say the raid wasn't because he was a cult leader, if you could even call him that.
And in our world, when science can't explain something, when do we resort to God and ghosts?
"I had no need of that hypothesis".
It's a very similar hypothetical situation actually. They would want to know if and when aliens had visited previously, and certainly 'first hand' accounts would logically be taken into consideration, even if 99% of them are clearly from insane people.
Believability is an interesting point. I think there are logical, and somewhat rational reasons for how this could actually happen, but the show doesn't care to have people discussing it. Although we all keep calling it the rapture, and the show is littered in religious iconography, and we know it's by Lindelof, who's last show has huge religious overtones and implications, there's no reason to actually believe it is, and very few people in the show seem to think it is, or even care to debate what it is.
The show takes place in the aftermath of this incident, but it's not really about the mystery of what happened at all, it's about the impact of what happened on the people of this town. If Lindelof has a 'lore bible' or not, I'm not sure it matters, because it's not really asking the audience to figure it out the way Lost was.
No answers are promised, and in all likelihood, none will be coming.
Not at all, I think asking them would absolutely happen, I think their responses leading to an explanation is what would be ridiculous.
If the biblical rapture actually happened tomorrow, you would see thousands of people claiming it was, and you wouldn't see a single Western government rubber stamp any report confirming it was. Patti saying 'I just knew, I could feel it' is of no value or merit to establishing the nature of the event.
My point was that they never stopped to point out "hey, that cult might be a potential lead!", in that scene. So have they never heard anything about people having weird premonitions around the time of the departure? Or do they not care?
I can't think of any contemporary event or phenomenon even remotely comparable to that departure thingy.
"Whoa, 2% of the world population just vanished, as if by magic! Man, that's utterly baffling and we really need to find out what happened there! What's that? Some people had premonitions? ... Nah, let's ignore those. I mean, yeah, we have absolutely zero lead and it's now clear our understanding of science is deeply flawed, but psychics? No such thing, man!"
That clearly wouldn't be true anymore after something/someone made people spontaneously vanish all over the world.
Well, they would be taken into consideration and screened, sure (again, I'm not sure what you're arguing anymore, there... do we agree or not, in the end?).
I was objecting to the idea that "the governments of the world would then pursue these claims as actual criminal cases" (wouldn't make sense to immediately consider all those claims factual) and pointing out that, in your example, there would be other, likely more pressing, leads to pursue (like the aliens themselves, obviously), whereas the Leftovers keeps reminding us that nobody has any clue as to what happened... except for those people who claim they have some insight but are still merely treated like crazies and nothing more, for some reason.
And when a character does, it once again beggars belief: "some of those people weren't good therefore it wasn't the rapture!" Gee, thanks, Sherlock. Three years later, I'd think everybody realized that, really, but okay.
Well, that's another matter entirely (especially in a show written by Lindelof!)...
My point was just that you'd expect people (governments, scientists, media, individuals trying to make sense of their personal tragedies) to have looked into all this and learned about those premonitions at some point.
And yet that doesn't seem to be the case. Three years later, Wayne's cult gets raided because "heh, why not, who cares", the pastor's super thorough investigation into the phenomenon merely led him to the conclusion that *gasp* they weren't all good people, the main character's father hearing voices since the departure merely means he's insane, the police is left to deal with the Guilty Remnants like it's just another crazy cult (no special instructions or anything)...
Corpsepyre
Banned
Are they ever going to answer the 'bigger' question on the show? I'm dreading this might end up being another Lost since Lindelof is involved and they are most likely never going to answer what the hell happened with the people (hoping that doesn't transpire). I know people are going to go like.. 'but this is not what the show is about'. Fuck that. I need some answers down the line, if not in this season.
Lindelof claims that it's not what the show is about, that it's all about the characters and how they deal with their losses... but then again, the show keeps introducing more mysterious/supernatural elements which are clearly showcased as the main selling points (see the promo for the season finale that was linked to above, for example).
So, yeah, it's very much like Lost so far. Also in the sense that, mystery or character drama, it's lazy, cheap writing either way.
Oh man I don't know why but I found this post so funny. Maybe because there is some truth to it.
BTW I really liked this episode.
But again, that's just your baseless presumption. You have no idea why the house was raided, let alone if his connection to the event had been considered in the years since the event.
If nothing else, he's clearly in hiding, and wanted by the authorities. Obviously if the police called him in to talk about the event, he clearly wouldn't be willing to go.
Again, just saying they ignored it, based on nothing, so there's no conversation to be had there.
When a scientific revelation takes place, which happens periodically, new scientific principles are looked for which fit in the new criteria. Just the last few weeks in fact, the 'EmDrive' was found to seemingly confound contemporary theory, now one of two things will happen, someone will theorize that the propulsion does not in fact contradict the conservation of momentum laws, and suggest another reason for its successful operation, or someone will amend the laws so as to make the new understanding fit. No one will ever resort to the hand of God being a participant, they will go with the eternal mystery before they assign God credit.
Just because they have 'no lead', doesn't mean they would be more likely to fall on mysticism.
What is it that you think any of the people who saw it coming could actually provide? Patti talked about an abstract feeling, she didn't hear a voice, she didn't see a vision, she wasn't taken somewhere, etc, it's not useful to the question of what happened.
Let's actually look at the event for a minute, (despite my point being the show doesn't really want us to do so). Only people were taken, no other flora or fauna as far as we know. If we look at the manner in which they disappeared, it's clearly by intention of an intelligence/s. Their clothing was taken, but a baby car seat wasn't, not even the bed sheets, and a fetus isn't just hanging out in a body, it's biologically connected, it's not like stealing a turkey out a shopping bag. It wasn't some science accident that pulled them into another dimension or whatever.
An intelligent entity/entities purposefully did this, and they are obviously greatly advanced beyond human culture. That leaves at least three obvious possibilities, most plausible is aliens. For it to be a technological abduction, the race needs to be greatly in advance of our own, even presuming a similar development rate to humans, and only a few thousand years headstart, that would be within reason, and obviously a species evolution could be considerably more efficient than our own, and they could have literally billions of years headstart.
Another option would be they were taken by human beings from the future, maybe some catastrophic event takes place in the future, and the world population is devastated, so they were forced to abduct people from the past. I think of this as less likely just because time travel might actually be impossible, where as the alien stuff isn't.
The other of course is God, the Rapture as it were. This is the least likely I think. There was no correlation between the people taken, the fetus would have original sin for example, and obviously had never had a consciousness to even choose to sin or not. This is the option the show seemingly wants people to think, given the music and title credits, etc.
The police do not only investigate cases they believe to be true. If you make certain allegations, they actually required to look into them. They don't just decided to investigate something or not on a whim.
Garvey kidnapped their regional leader, tied her to a chair in the woods, and intended to torture her until she told them about her organization, it's not like no one cares or is trying to press them for answers, they aren't cooperative. If individual members were before the cult started or not, again, you have no idea about.
How is that different to anything in real life? He isn't treated as if he's notably important, or wise, or knowing, or in touch with a higher power. In fact it's just the opposite, he isn't treated any better than the GR really. It's not like people are converting and following him, in fact, he's lost the vast majority of his congregation. He's basically just viewed as an irritating annoyance, and is frequently beaten for his newsletters.
Again, you're just pulling that out of nothing. There is nothing in the show to indicate either way. There is the implication that if they did speak to those people, it didn't result in them ultimately publicly endorsing the rapture explanation, but as I said above, I can't imagine why anyone would ever expect a government to do that.
You don't know why Wayne's ranch was raided.
The pastor isn't investigating the event, he concluded it wasn't the rapture at the time, he's just continuing to put out what he believes to be evidence in an attempt to convince others.
Garvey Sr is violent, if he's hearing real voices of the departed or not, he's been institutionalized because he needed to be removed from society due to his violence. If it turned out he's not imagining it, presumably he still wouldn't be released.
There's no reason to believe the GR have any answers, in fact, there's reason to believe they don't, including the fact Patti outright said so in the cabin.
ThLunarian
Member
I assume that even if the book never answered the question of what happened, the show eventually will, if it goes more than a few seasons. I mean when you're mapping out the content of a show like this, and you're faced with possibilities of storylines to pursue, answering the show's biggest unanswered question has to be on that list.
I think there are a lot of storylines to pursue.
I'd like to see how the change affected more urban areas, for example.
Or people of a bunch of different religions or faiths. Maybe not just a town full of a bunch of white folk and one black mayor.
I'd like to see a season from the point of view of someone who's life was made extremely better by the event.
There's a lot of places they could go.
What about that scene at the beginning of the episode? Didn't it show that the one who gave the order barely knew or cared about Wayne's cult?
Well, if they haven't done anything about it in three years...
Clearly, the authorities knew where the guy was. They just let him be until that... congressman? showed up. And then, it was just "heh, all right, let's call it a threat to national security and get rid of those guys".
See above: three years later, Wayne's cult gets raided because "heh, why not, who cares", the pastor's super thorough investigation into the phenomenon merely led him to the conclusion that *gasp* they weren't all good people, the main character's father hearing voices since the departure merely means he's insane, the police is left to deal with the Guilty Remnants like it's just another crazy cult (no special instructions or anything)...
That's all from the show.
And something like the departure would be a huge deal, and leads would be pursued very aggressively. Which doesn't seem to be the case at all, here.
Again, we're talking about a world that saw 2% of its population vanish spontaneously. That would seriously redefine what's considered "mysticism".
Not that you'd know that if you didn't even ask her in the first place. And there is no indication that those premonitions are a lead that's been investigated, be it by governments, scientists, the media or passionate people like our good pastor. On the contrary, they all act like they've never heard about those. Is it really believable that they wouldn't know?
Well, Arthur C. Clarke would probably point out that it makes no real difference...
Point is, there's something seemingly intelligent that appears to care about human beings and to have crazy god-like powers.
Once you've established that, you should also consider the possibility that psychics exist, that those premonitions / mysterious voices / etc are a lead worth pursuing (besides, they appear to be the only lead).
Again, if it's the only lead, you'd expect the government to try and look into it, and the police to receive some instructions pertaining to that. But it seems they're treated no differently than any other crazy cult in our rapture-less world.
Well, if he's supposed to be an idiot, congrats to the writers: mission accomplished.
Doesn't matter what they would publicly say or not. Point is, those people should be persons of great interest, whether or not they want to collaborate, and they clearly aren't treated as such.
And just that...
I don't know, I'd expect someone as passionate as that guy to try and come up with several arguments instead of always using the same one (that everybody should already know about from personal experience), especially when it clearly makes a lot of people want to punch him in the face.
And there again, that seems to be it.
For a show that's all about the profound impact of that mysterious event, the world seems curiously nonchalant when it comes to investigating the thing...
It worked better here than as the pilot but
Also, are deer rampages really a thing in real life or just on this show? Because there are like two dozen deer wandering around my neighborhood and nothing ever gets damaged aside from a few plants that get snacked on.
Also, are deer rampages really a thing in real life or just on this show? Because there are like two dozen deer wandering around my neighborhood and nothing ever gets damaged aside from a few plants that get snacked on.
Cornballer
Member
EastOfEden
Member
Hrm, wall of text arguments about serious stuff - this is quite a cranky thread. We should get back to the real issues
Anyhow, I loved this week's episode. Back to form after last week's, which I hated.
#teamblurrednudity
Anyhow, I loved this week's episode. Back to form after last week's, which I hated.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
The way they word that makes me laugh.
Grimm Fandango
Member
Wow great episode. Especially when they finally show the laundromat women with the baby and you realize it's the day. I had a sinking feeling in my stomach from then until the end.
This show continually surprises me by how good it is and I hope it gets some awards.
This show continually surprises me by how good it is and I hope it gets some awards.
Diprosalic
Banned
you knew it was the day way before that.
it won't get any less strange, if you like clarity and answers, turn around now.
I liked this episode, but what the hell is with Kevin's son. That guy overacted the shit out of every little thing in this ep, every slight motion or word spoken is delivered with such exaggerated delivery.
I mean, there's regular overacting, and then there's flailing around for no reason.
I mean, there's regular overacting, and then there's flailing around for no reason.
Yeah it's a show about the characters and dealing with incredible loss. I don't believe there will ever be any profound explanation of the supernatural things going on in the show (think of Lost). If they do try to explain it, I expect that myself and many other gaffers will be deeply upset with the stupidity of their explanation whatever it may be.
The fetus disappearing from past Laurie's womb was over the top shock value writing IMO.
The fetus disappearing from past Laurie's womb was over the top shock value writing IMO.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Yeah, but where did peoples clothes go?
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