Support NeoGAF

[tuxfool]

This is really a PR issue. Announcing it before the game is released usually leaves a bad taste in people's mouths because they haven't even gotten to touch the main game yet. Paid expansions are fine but they need to release the details after the game is out.

To the people wondering why they're announcing this before release. I imagine it has a great deal to do with being able to remind people of the expansions when they go to buy the game. This way they need to do a lot less marketing for the expansions.

People that like the game when they play it will essentially be reminded that there will be expansions available later down the road.

 

[Auctopus]

lol AND it's only $25? That'll be like £19.99 on a 30 hours worth of expansions nearly a year after the full game. I don't know how people can be upset.

Not to mention you don't even have to buy it on top of that.

 

[Guri]

This imo.

It still doesn't make sense. The expansions will be the same price. No one has to buy now. I won't. You can evaluate later. So what's the problem?

 

[King_Moc]

So...people would prefer it if they kept their expansion plans hidden? As a consumer, I like as much info as possible going in. Talking about the announcement being bad pr and saying they should have waited makes it sound like you relate more with the publisher than the customer. That's not a great mindset for a consumer to have.

 

[Asd202]

Already?

 

[Sirim]

GAF likes developers to be keep all their future plans hidden until the game has already been purchased.

Because that's consumer friendly.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Anton Sugar]

No one has yet been able to explain why the timing of this announcement matters.

It's literally a "because" kinda thing--better PR, etc. There is no other reason. If it's on the roadmap, I see no harm in announcing it, let alone if it's already being developed (which it likely is).

 

[Vire]

lol AND it's only $25? That'll be like £19.99 on a 30 hours worth of expansions nearly a year after the full game. I don't know how people can be upset.

Not to mention you don't even have to buy it on top of that.

I think another beef people have with season passes stems from the fact that some used to give timed heavy discounts if you bought the season pass ahead of time, before you knew it was any good.

LA Noire did this and it was pretty gross. The artificial discounts obviously ended well before the reviews for these things hit.

 

[iNvid02]

so what are the other advantages to announcing it before release, aside from a bit of cashflow - or is that worth it enough for them

 

[biglittleps]

why?

the only answer is "so that utterly delicate gamer sensibilities aren't offended"

and you've failed to bring any other validation for this train of logic so far, where context is considered

as have basically the rest of the posters in here...

Announcing before the game arrives makes most of the day one purchasers and fans to buy this season pass as well, so the developers could use this money to make their season pass content without worries and risk free to some extent which is paid in advance.

 

[Alucrid]

If you are one of those people who beat Skyrim in 10 hours, youll probably end up very disappointed... but that is just my guess...

90% of the people who play these expansions will ignore most of the content and then bitch when it only took them 5 hours to complete.

lets be honest, whenever people talk about the length of their game in a set amount of hours it's almost always wrong

 

[Red Hood]

No one has yet been able to explain why the timing of this announcement matters.

I'd say people would feel salty, whether justified or not. I can't say I disagree per se, but it is somewhat... undesirable to buy a game full priced at launch knowing you won't get everything out of it. I think announcing said DLCs at a considerably later period could soften the "blows".

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

GAF likes developers to be keep all their future plans hidden until the game has already been purchased.

Because that's consumer friendly.





/s

The hypocrisy is at an all time high. Its absolutely ridiculous.

Then the same sample portion of gamers have the nerve to say that developers don't take their concerns seriously. They are fickle as fuck.

 

[shandy706]

Well I did only pay $20 for the full game.

Even if I buy this day 1 I only paid $45, lol.


I won't though, because it will take me FOREVER to beat this game. Most likely a year or more...unless it just sucks me in. (too many games to play)

I'll probably grab the expansions for like $5 down the road.

 

[dex3108]

Will expansions be included in Collectors Edition? If not i guess CE owners will be pissed.

 

[tuxfool]

I think another beef people have with season passes stems from the fact that some used to give timed heavy discounts if you bought it all ahead of time before you knew it was any good.

LA Noire did this and it was pretty gross. The artificial discounts obviously ended well before the reviews for these things hit.

TBH, given the uncertain nature of the content before release, the discounts are there to offset the inherent risk involved with preordering.

I prefer a discount, to BS extra exclusive horse armour.

 

[Furfuryl Furforate]

- it's not about 'adding an imo', it's about justifying that reasoning with real world logic. you said it 'shouldn't be a focus right now' but still haven't given a valid reason as to why that's the case.

- why don't you wait until these 'promises' fall through before disregarding CD Projekt's goodwill over the years, and the quality of their work, in an attempt to imply that this is something bad? and I don't see how people splurging on an expansion pack that clearly advertises what comes with it well before release is something manipulative or shady on their part. If I felt it was a poor value like I do with many of these I'd probably base my argument on that. But it sounds like their MO is to make it so that these are NOT a poor value and are actually true expansions in the old sense of the word.

- no, it's believing a respectable developer on their word instead of throwing a shit fit like a bunch of people in here because i saw three letters I didn't like and want to twist reality to justify my kneejerk reaction

Who are you to decide what reason is valid or not? See that sort of argument is futile

Was Destiny's expansion pass not a decent value proposition by a reputable developer?
It's not about promises falling through but selling them in the first place, while at the same time raising certain expectations, before the release of the game.
I understand it with Kickstarter where the games wouldn't be made otherwise but you'd think CDPR wouldn't have to resort to stuff like this.

 

[_machine]

So...people would prefer it if they kept their expansion plans hidden? As a consumer, I like as much info as possible going in. Talking about the announcement being bad pr and saying they should have waited makes it sound like you relate more with the publisher than the customer. That's not a great mindset for a consumer to have.

I'm kinda with you. I won't disagree that on paper it doesn't necessarily sound fair that they are already "selling" you more stuff before the actual game releases, but on the other hand as a consumer it's nice to know what the post release content entails and I'm sure most people also appreciate to know that the game will be supported well after release. I personally have no issue with announcements well before release and no hint of bad taste either, just business as usual.

 

[Corine]

Sweet bringing it back old school proper expansion style. This is why CDP is unmatched as a developer these days. Sad reading a lot of those comments though because it seems a lot of posters are too young to remember what a proper expansion is. For some reason they think an expansion is just like the normal dlc they get shoved down there throats these days.

 

[gdt]

I trust that CDPR would add appropriate value to the game. So I'll definitely be buying this.

 

[Kintaro]

That was not what you were complaining about.

Yes it kind of was. When you announce stuff like this before your game is out, it can feel like a price hike to get the "complete" game. I stated as such in my earlier post. In the past, people may have assumed an expansion was coming, but it wasn't announced until after the game was out. Hell, Blizzard did this as recent as Diablo 3. They didn't announce Reaper of Souls before DIII came out.

It's okay for people to be irked by this a little bit and I see it at work on a weekly basis. It's not "pathetic" as the other poster was calling people.

 

[Siegfried]

Let me see if I got this right. Because he understands the word DLC differently from the real meaning of it, he can charge for things while still being true to his word? Interesting.

What other words can we change the meaning? Can I kill someone because I understand killing in a different way than everyone else?

 

[patapuf]

lets be honest, whenever people talk about the length of their game in a set amount of hours it's almost always wrong

Even if you halve the time indicated that's a decent chunk of content at 25 $.

Given that they say that their main story is 50h long that's also comparable to the content you pay for the main game.

Let me see if I got this right. Because he understands the word DLC differently from the real meaning of it, he can charge for things while still being true to his word? Interesting.

What other words can we change the meaning? Can I kill someone because I understand killing in a different way than everyone else?

I mean, on PC, the big content releases have always been called expansions. It's not exactly a new marketing term. They've also always said expansions-style releases would be paid even for the witcher 2, when they ended up not releasing any

 

[roytheone]

Why would anybody buy this season pass right now? Why not wait until the first DLC gets released and see how it turned out. Do you benefit in ANY way by buying it now VS waiting??

 

[Sirim]

Who are you to decide what reason is valid or not? See that sort of argument is futile

Was Destiny's expansion pass not a decent value proposition by a reputable developer?
It's not about promises falling through but selling them in the first place, while at the same time raising certain expectations, before the release of the game.
I understand it with Kickstarter where the games wouldn't be made otherwise but you'd think CDPR wouldn't have to resort to stuff like this.

Resort to stuff like what?

Letting consumers know their future plans rather than keep it hidden until later? Ignorance is bliss and people would rather be unaware of what they're working on?

 

[Anno]

I'd say people would feel salty, whether justified or not. I can't say I disagree per se, but it is somewhat... undesirable to buy a game full priced at launch knowing you won't get everything out of it. I think announcing said DLCs at a considerably later period could soften the "blows".

This doesn't make sense. They've already said they would like to do larger content releases, and have already sad they won't be free. The game has been content complete since at least December, so it's reasonable to presume those people have been working at least in part on this content. This is literally just people being snarky - and in some weird cases outright mad - just because. The game that's releasing is the game you're going to get whether they announce this now or in three months.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Let me see if I got this right. Because he understands the word DLC differently from the real meaning of it, he can charge for things while still being true to his word? Interesting.

What other words can we change the meaning? Can I kill someone because I understand killing in a different way than everyone else?

Where was he not true to his word? Whether you agree with the definitions he uses, they've been open about this model.

 

[qa_engineer]

While it's great that their expansion pack has a ton of extra content and isn't your run of the mill DLC, I think announcing it before the release of the main game is a bad move. This is especially true when your original message was that your company was taking a stance against expansions in the first place.

It also just feels like this could have been included as part of the original game, but the publisher simply wanted them to lop off a piece of the game to make an extra buck.

edit: but what do I know?

 

[Vire]

I trust that CDPR would add appropriate value to the game. So I'll definitely be buying this.

Sounds like a good value to me.

 

[Kriken]

I'll keep an eye on this, sounds like the content is good value, but I still need to play Witcher 1/2 so I'd rather wait on this. Also, i kinda wish they at least waited until the game was released before talking about expansions

 

[Sykra]

It is good they are being upfront about it and speak about the expansions in somewhat detail. I'm sure they didn't delay the game because of them, and the delay was mostly in optimisation and bug fixing, while the rest of the content team works on the expansions. Probably better than to have them sitting around doing nothing.

 

[Deadstar]

This sounds like an old school expansion pack not piecemeal dlc like we get now. I'm very excited for this.

 

[Zukuu]

No wonder that shit stuck around when people react with "nice" "already bought" "i need more" when fucking DLC is announced well before the fucking game is actually released. The only DLC I approve is in the style of Artorias, Blizzard games and GTA. Something that is created AFTER the release is stable.

 

[injurai]

I love CDPR, but I never understood why they decided to announce a "16 free dlc pack"... Why couldn't it be part of the game if its just released at the same time, or am I wrong?

When doing game preproduction they at some point finalize what the game is. Some ideas are cut or put aside. As development moves along the game is increasingly left in the hands of the programmers. Eventually they whole game is modelled textured etc, and the art teams now start creating DLC content. Sometimes DLC ends up being finished in time to be included on disk with the game.

It's nice when this DLC is free, and it's always disappointing when it's locked behind paywalls.

 

[Theorry]

No one has yet been able to explain why the timing of this announcement matters.

Because it creates already a 11 page thread here.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I'd say people would feel salty, whether justified or not. I can't say I disagree per se, but it is somewhat... undesirable to buy a game full priced at launch knowing you won't get everything out of it.

That's the fault of the customer who doesn't understand fundamental engineering/development processes, or product management in general. Maybe that IS a good enough reason to hold off on announcing it, but I personally like hearing about this stuff as soon as they feel confident enough to announce it.

Now, if there is some indication or evidence that this content COULD be included as a part of the original game, or IS actually all on the disc but is only unlocked at a later date? Sure, let's get pissed off.

 

[johntown]

Free Horse Armor for The Witcher 3 confirmed!

 

[Angel_DvA]

Those expansions are announced too early, they should have wait the game to release before doing it, I'll see if The Witcher III will deliver before buying anything else, I'm still as hype as ever and will probably take them if the content worth it though.

for the controversial thing, I'm ok for now because they promise hours and hours of content for 25$, AC Unity has a 15 minutes DLC and COD/BF are almost 50$ for crappy maps or modes so as long as CDPR won't be that shitty, I will follow them....

 

[Absoludacrous]

so what are the other advantages to announcing it before release, aside from a bit of cashflow - or is that worth it enough for them

You make a ton more money off people if you sell your season pass when the game ships and is fresh in everyone's mind.

Trying to sell it months later when the hype cycle is being consumed by other titles doesn't work out as well, despite whatever forum backlash exists.

 

[Siegfried]

Where was he not true to his word? Whether you agree with the definitions he uses, they've been open about this model.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_content

He can't change the definition of things just because he wants.

And before you say something, I don't see that as an expansion pack. Blizzard makes expansion packs. For WoW, for Diablo, for Starcraft, for Warcraft. They add a TON of content, almost the same ammount as the base games sometimes. 10 hours is a DLC no matter how much you try to push it.

 

[Kiant]

Let me see if I got this right. Because he understands the word DLC differently from the real meaning of it, he can charge for things while still being true to his word? Interesting.

What other words can we change the meaning? Can I kill someone because I understand killing in a different way than everyone else?

 

[Anton Sugar]

Something that is created AFTER the release is stable.

Define "created". It doesn't make much business sense to hold off on working on additional content/products until after the game is released and/or stable.

 

[Shouta]

To the people wondering why they're announcing this before release. I imagine it has a great deal to do with being able to remind people of the expansions when they go to buy the game. This way they need to do a lot less marketing for the expansions.

People that like the game when they play it will essentially be reminded that there will be expansions available later down the road.

That's a bad idea because it creates the idea that to get a full experience with the game they need to pad beyond the price of the base game. Sure, it sounds good from a marketing perspective since it kills two birds with one stone and is riding on the hype train to the game's release but it has a negative effect on a consumer's perception. Giving the buyer time to enjoy their product and feel like it's totally worth it and then dangling more in front of them to take advantage of that appetite works better overall and is far less likely to cause resentment.

 

[tuxfool]

Who are you to decide what reason is valid or not? See that sort of argument is futile

Was Destiny's expansion pass not a decent value proposition by a reputable developer?
It's not about promises falling through but selling them in the first place, while at the same time raising certain expectations, before the release of the game.
I understand it with Kickstarter where the games wouldn't be made otherwise but you'd think CDPR wouldn't have to resort to stuff like this.

The problem with Destiny is that the base game was severely content starved (and the content that was there wasn't exactly stellar). The first expansion didn't do much to rectify that situation.

It should also be noted that the expansion pass is sold seperately to the game. People can buy the content at 3 different times: Before playing the main game, after playing the game, after the expansion releases.

My theory for why they're doing it is stated earlier.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

$25 sounds fair for expansion packs. just gotta see if they're any good, and see if the main game lives up to expectations.

That's a bad idea because it creates the idea that to get a full experience with the game they need to pad beyond the price of the base game. Sure, it sounds good from a marketing perspective since it kills two birds with one stone and is riding on the hype train to the game's release but it has a negative effect on a consumer's perception. Giving the buyer time to enjoy their product and feel like it's totally worth it and then dangling more in front of them to take advantage of that appetite works better overall and is far less likely to cause resentment.

there might be pressure from their marketing partners to push the Expansion Pass stuff out before the game releases to pull in more $$$ on day one. TO be fair to CDPR, they're saying to hold off and wait for reviews if this is a thing that you feel might bother you so it isn't as if they're not aware that some folks might not take well to the announcement.

 

[tattooed_dwarf]

The hilarious thing about people being upset for announcing DLC ahead of the release is that they're advocating for developers to lie and be less transparent.

Pretty much, good point!

 

[Furfuryl Furforate]

Resort to stuff like what?

Letting consumers know their future plans rather than keep it hidden until later? Ignorance is bliss and people would rather be unaware of what they're working on?

Now you're just being intentionally obtuse.

The problem with Destiny is that the base game was severely content starved (and the content that was there wasn't exactly stellar). The first expansion didn't do much to rectify that situation.

It should also be noted that the expansion pass is sold separately to the game. People can buy the content at 3 different times: Before playing the main game, after playing the game, after the expansion releases.

My theory for why they're doing it is stated earlier.

Agreed, I was just using it as an example, since it's a comparable situation, and I do think the season pass will be worth it but I still don't like the practice of selling them before the games release.

 

[Delusibeta]

Will wait for the "all-the-stuff" edition to go on Steam/GOG sale, then.

Maybe I'll have something that can run it by then.

 

[georly]

The timing of announcing DLC before the game releases makes me want to just wait for a 'game of the year edition' or until the whole game is cheaper/sold as a 'complete' set. If you announce DLC after I buy the game, I'm more likely to just get the game, and then get the DLC, if it's of good value.

That's how it affects me, personally. Can't speak for anyone else.

Spoiler

Yes, I'm aware it's a bit shallow and it's actually nice they're being candid about DLC plans ahead of release, but the stubborn old-school gamer in me is just used to getting 'complete' games. Announcing DLC before the game is out subconsciously makes me think it was stripped from the actual game, rather than being something 'extra.' I know that's not actually correct, but it's how it makes me feel.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

Yes.

And they're just trying to get as much money as possible before release.

Many other developers have been called out for the exact same.

Huh? Its a business. of course they would like extra money, thats why they are offering a reported 30 hours of extra content.

Developers have been called out for offering wayyyyy less content at higher prices than we are seeing here, If anything CDPR did it the right way! I haven't even played any of the Witcher games and I can tell that much.

This isn't 4 extra characters in a fighting game being locked out.

This isn't extra content that was ready being locked out of a sparse base game

This isn't announcing an expansion season pass without letting people know exactly what they are buying.

This isn't a crucial part of gameplay necessary to complete the full game. Its an optional expansion pack.

I struggle to see what the issue is here. Its maddening. If you dont like it, don't buy it.